If a guy is 6-1 at home with a 5.82 ERA

[ryanXL977]

bro, wang is not top 10 or 15 by any measure
he had like the 25th or 30th era in the majors last yr
he wasnt even top 10 in al i think

his team scores a lot of runs
put joe blanton on the yanks and he wins 18 also, kevin millwood could win 18 with them

[austintx05]

bro, wang is not top 10 or 15 by any measure
he had like the 25th or 30th era in the majors last yr
he wasnt even top 10 in al i think

his team scores a lot of runs
put joe blanton on the yanks and he wins 18 also, kevin millwood could win 18 with them

millwood?

[LT Profits]

And I don't know what I am talking about. That's why I never win.

And he still harps on Wins. Let me put it this way:

When handicap a game, do you look at how many games the starting pitcher has won, or do you look at how he has pitched? Again, now write this down 500 times on the blackboard, WINS ARE MEANINGLESS!

[austintx05]

And I don't know what I am talking about. That's why I never win.

And he still harps on Wins. Let me put it this way:

When handicap a game, do you look at how many games the starting pitcher has won, or do you look at how he has pitched? Agian, now right this down 500 times on the blackboard, WINS ARE MEANINGLESS!

IMO, it is an entirely different debate on baseball talk/opinions vs how you bet baseball.

Two different perspectives.

[LT Profits]

Yes and no. You are saying Wang is top 5 pitcher soley because he gets wins. I am saying he is not even top 10 because there are AT LEAST 10 other pitchers (probably more) that would outperform Wang if they pitched for the Yankees. I actually like Ryan's list, and I would take Lincecum over Wang too assuming he doesn't throw his shoulder out with that delivery of his. If Lincecum had a quality off-speed pitch, HE would have Top 5 potential.

[mofome]

Yes and no. You are saying Wang is top 5 pitcher soley because he gets wins. I am saying he is not even top 10 because there are AT LEAST 10 other pitchers (probably more) that would outperform Wang if they pitched for the Yankees. I actually like Ryan's list, and I would take Lincecum over Wang too assuming he doesn't throw his shoulder out with that delivery of his. If Lincecum had a quality off-speed pitch, HE would have Top 5 potential.

I think lince already has top 5 potential, but hes not in the top 5 yet.

[LT Profits]

Yeah but he's basically just blowing people away right now. That in itself is impressive, but he'll need to develop an off-speed pitch eventually, because the league will catch up to him if he continues to throw hard, harder, hardest.

[mofome]

Yeah but he's basically just blowing people away right now. That in itself is impressive, but he'll need to develop an off-speed pitch eventually, because the league will catch up to him if he continues to throw hard, harder, hardest.

his hook is one of the best in the nl when its on, imo. i think he needs a slider or a change up, but hes young; although its hard to work on a pitch at this level.

[ryanXL977]

its one thing to argue penny or someone with really good numbers is top 5, its another to argue wang solely bc of one stat, witht he best offense of the last 20 yrs. its just dumb to me.

i thought i put together a nice list

[mofome]

its one thing to argue penny or someone with really good numbers is top 5, its another to argue wang solely bc of one stat, witht he best offense of the last 20 yrs. its just dumb to me.

i thought i put together a nice list

not to mention the best closer in the history of baseball behind him.

[ryanXL977]

exactly
imagine if cain had any pen at all last yr, maybe 17 wins?
imagine if peavy had the yanks offens.e we are talkign 25 wins. same with webby

[matskralc]

a pitcher is in control of his era, whip, ks, walks, ha, opsa.

not really, sort of, yes, yes, no, not really.

[mofome]

not really, sort of, yes, yes, no, not really.

a pitcher doesn't control his hits allowed or his era? thats interesting.

[matskralc]

a pitcher doesn't control his hits allowed or his era? thats interesting.

Not particularly. Read the footnoted links and be enlightened. Only to the extent that walks/strikeouts/home runs affect his ERA can a pitcher really control his ERA. Pitchers have little to no control over what happens to a ball in play (except at the extremes and possibly among knuckleballers), and they certainly have no control over whether their defense can turn it into an out.

[mofome]

Not particularly. Read the footnoted links and be enlightened. Only to the extent that walks/strikeouts/home runs affect his ERA can a pitcher really control his ERA. Pitchers have little to no control over what happens to a ball in play (except at the extremes and possibly among knuckleballers), and they certainly have no control over whether their defense can turn it into an out.

Not necessary, ive read that before and its all well and good, but a pitcher has a large effect on how sharply a ball is hit and that, in turn, has a large effect on what happens to it once its in play. to suggest that a pitcher has little control over his era is about as ridiculous as anything ive ever heard. if thats the case, why aren't you in the majors? just bad luck?

[matskralc]

If you did actually read any of it, you would know the answer to that question.

[mofome]

If you did actually read any of it, you would know the answer to that question.

I know the answer. simply put, a pitcher largely controls his era. its not a topic thats up for debate.

gl tonight mat

[tim patterson]

Hey Mofo,

I read your post and haven't read anyone else. So, I'll probably be repeating this.

Nope, lots of factors come into play when making a wager.
No time to get into it today.