If a guy is 6-1 at home with a 5.82 ERA

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  • mofome
    SBR Posting Legend
    • 12-19-07
    • 13003

    #36
    Originally posted by eidolon
    that comment made me laugh out loud, Thank you!



    why?
    Comment
    • thegreatdiatchi
      SBR MVP
      • 03-07-08
      • 1154

      #37
      Originally posted by LT Profits
      I don't even think it's close between Webb and Wang. I think Webb is one of three best pitchers in baseball. Wang is not even in top 10.
      I think Webb is the 2nd best pitcher in baseball right now so it's hard to compare him to anyone besides Peavy & Santana imo. I think I rated Wang as #4 or 5 in a poll we had earlier relating to him but the more I think about it he's really a top 15 guy. Still, there's nothing at all wrong with that and thankfully for the Yanks he is one guy who can usually be relied on to pull it out.

      With that being said, Boston games are almost the equivalent of playoff games for the Yanks and this performance scares me for what could be in store.
      Comment
      • austintx05
        SBR MVP
        • 08-24-06
        • 3156

        #38
        lets see how peavy does pitching in yankee stadium
        Comment
        • ryanXL977
          SBR Posting Legend
          • 02-24-08
          • 20615

          #39
          obviously its my opinion
          let me know the last time peavy or webb had a 7 run support game at home and couldnt get out of the 5th
          unit
          17 wins
          5 era
          Comment
          • mofome
            SBR Posting Legend
            • 12-19-07
            • 13003

            #40
            Originally posted by austintx05
            lets see how peavy does pitching in yankee stadium


            peavy has a nice home park, but the biggest advantage is playing lineups that aren't all that good in parks like sf and lad. i believe that division had 4 of the lowest 20 scoring teams in the majors last year? something like that.
            Comment
            • ryanXL977
              SBR Posting Legend
              • 02-24-08
              • 20615

              #41
              wangs team scors 6 runs a game
              unit had a 5 era with 17 wins

              wang isnt top 10, he isnt close
              nobody in their right mind argues that
              Comment
              • austintx05
                SBR MVP
                • 08-24-06
                • 3156

                #42
                mofo proved my point

                not only does peavy pitch in a pitcher's park, but he also plays in a division that scored the fewest runs.

                ryan as soon as someone can tell me who has more wins than wang the last 2 seasons then you will win the argument.
                Comment
                • ryanXL977
                  SBR Posting Legend
                  • 02-24-08
                  • 20615

                  #43
                  peavy is so much better than wang it isnt funny
                  ask players who they dont want to face
                  they dont name wang

                  they name
                  webb
                  johan
                  peavy
                  Comment
                  • austintx05
                    SBR MVP
                    • 08-24-06
                    • 3156

                    #44
                    Originally posted by ryanXL977
                    peavy is so much better than wang it isnt funny
                    ask players who they dont want to face
                    they dont name wang

                    they name
                    webb
                    johan
                    peavy
                    who said that? Did you ask every player or is that YOUR opinion?
                    Comment
                    • ryanXL977
                      SBR Posting Legend
                      • 02-24-08
                      • 20615

                      #45
                      unit
                      17 wins
                      5 era
                      Comment
                      • mofome
                        SBR Posting Legend
                        • 12-19-07
                        • 13003

                        #46
                        wins are not a statistic a pitcher actually controls. teams win, not pitchers. a pitcher is in control of his era, whip, ks, walks, ha, opsa. those are the only numbers that need be referenced.
                        Comment
                        • ryanXL977
                          SBR Posting Legend
                          • 02-24-08
                          • 20615

                          #47
                          exactly
                          thnk you
                          explain that to austin, he knows more about baseball than anyone in here
                          Comment
                          • austintx05
                            SBR MVP
                            • 08-24-06
                            • 3156

                            #48
                            you right. The fact that a pitcher would hold the opposition to fewer runs than his team scored shows that a pitcher has no control on wins.

                            ryan, I am still waiting for a response to my question.
                            Comment
                            • ryanXL977
                              SBR Posting Legend
                              • 02-24-08
                              • 20615

                              #49
                              pitchers dotn control how many runs their team scores dude
                              do you watch wang? he is on espn every week
                              he is a good solid number 2-3
                              Comment
                              • mofome
                                SBR Posting Legend
                                • 12-19-07
                                • 13003

                                #50
                                Originally posted by austintx05
                                you right. The fact that a pitcher would hold the opposition to fewer runs than his team scored shows that a pitcher has no control on wins.

                                ryan, I am still waiting for a response to my question.

                                The pitcher tries to hold the opposition to zero runs, not simply less than his team scores. a pitchers goal is not to allow 6 if his team has 7. If you like a pitcher who gets a lot of run support, you like that teams run support, not their pitching.
                                Comment
                                • ryanXL977
                                  SBR Posting Legend
                                  • 02-24-08
                                  • 20615

                                  #51
                                  don sutton, top 20 pitcher all time right austin?
                                  Comment
                                  • LT Profits
                                    SBR Aristocracy
                                    • 10-27-06
                                    • 90963

                                    #52
                                    Originally posted by austintx05
                                    ryan as soon as someone can tell me who has more wins than wang the last 2 seasons then you will win the argument.

                                    You already lost the argument by continuing to insist that Wins is a meaningful stat.
                                    Comment
                                    • austintx05
                                      SBR MVP
                                      • 08-24-06
                                      • 3156

                                      #53
                                      See this argument is getting off topic.

                                      Cause I never said Wang is the BEST. Which is what ryan thinks I am saying.

                                      I am saying Wang is a top 5 pitcher in my book. Now I could see him slide into someone's top 10. But this top 15-20 crap is bullshit.
                                      Comment
                                      • LT Profits
                                        SBR Aristocracy
                                        • 10-27-06
                                        • 90963

                                        #54
                                        No he is not top 10. Top 20 at BEST.
                                        Comment
                                        • ryanXL977
                                          SBR Posting Legend
                                          • 02-24-08
                                          • 20615

                                          #55
                                          but he is not top 5. and he is not top 10. his stuff isnt nasty, he cant k guys, he gets wins, he is good, i would take him. but so did unit at 5 era so what

                                          sps dont control wins
                                          Comment
                                          • austintx05
                                            SBR MVP
                                            • 08-24-06
                                            • 3156

                                            #56
                                            and this thread is proving precisely why the masses at SBR do not know what they are talking about, YET THEY THINK THEY DO.
                                            Comment
                                            • ryanXL977
                                              SBR Posting Legend
                                              • 02-24-08
                                              • 20615

                                              #57
                                              or that you dont
                                              everyone here has seen wang pitch 50 times
                                              including twice vs cleve last october
                                              he is nothing special dude. he is a good solid 2-3
                                              he has one plus pitch
                                              one
                                              Comment
                                              • austintx05
                                                SBR MVP
                                                • 08-24-06
                                                • 3156

                                                #58
                                                Originally posted by ryanXL977
                                                or that you dont
                                                everyone here has seen wang pitch 50 times
                                                including twice vs cleve last october
                                                he is nothing special dude. he is a good solid 2-3
                                                he has one plus pitch
                                                one
                                                actually I do cause I keep proving you wrong.

                                                I say Wang is top 5 but will stretch to top 10.

                                                Name me 10 pitchers better than Wang. Active.
                                                Comment
                                                • ryanXL977
                                                  SBR Posting Legend
                                                  • 02-24-08
                                                  • 20615

                                                  #59
                                                  webb
                                                  peavy
                                                  johan
                                                  beckett
                                                  hammels
                                                  sheets
                                                  smoltz
                                                  bedard
                                                  haren
                                                  sabathia
                                                  cain
                                                  hudson
                                                  kazmir
                                                  halladay
                                                  king felix
                                                  Comment
                                                  • mofome
                                                    SBR Posting Legend
                                                    • 12-19-07
                                                    • 13003

                                                    #60
                                                    Originally posted by ryanXL977
                                                    webb
                                                    peavy
                                                    johan
                                                    beckett
                                                    hammels
                                                    sheets
                                                    smoltz
                                                    bedard
                                                    haren
                                                    sabathia
                                                    cain
                                                    hudson
                                                    kazmir
                                                    halladay
                                                    king felix

                                                    lincecum
                                                    Comment
                                                    • austintx05
                                                      SBR MVP
                                                      • 08-24-06
                                                      • 3156

                                                      #61
                                                      Originally posted by ryanXL977
                                                      webb
                                                      peavy
                                                      johan
                                                      beckett
                                                      hammels
                                                      sheets
                                                      smoltz
                                                      bedard
                                                      haren
                                                      sabathia
                                                      cain
                                                      hudson
                                                      kazmir
                                                      halladay
                                                      king felix
                                                      cain - nope
                                                      cc - can we not say last year was a fluke. Nice 0-3 start he has this season.
                                                      Haren is solid, but Wang is easily better.
                                                      Hudson/Smoltz - solid but again I do not know if we can say they are better TODAY than Wang.
                                                      Felix/Hammels - another case where we need to see more. Consistency is key to this list.
                                                      Comment
                                                      • ryanXL977
                                                        SBR Posting Legend
                                                        • 02-24-08
                                                        • 20615

                                                        #62
                                                        lincecum i would take over wang, not sure if everyone agrees yet
                                                        Comment
                                                        • ryanXL977
                                                          SBR Posting Legend
                                                          • 02-24-08
                                                          • 20615

                                                          #63
                                                          what consistency has wang shown that haren and felix have not? the factyou say hudson and smoltz arent better than wang speaks volumes it hink


                                                          and 3 starts make a season? i guess wang last night was the norm then
                                                          Comment
                                                          • diogee
                                                            SBR Posting Legend
                                                            • 01-11-08
                                                            • 19477

                                                            #64
                                                            I would take Smoltz or Hudson over Wang...but this is an opinionated argument. Nobody is going to agree. Would be the same thing when arguing the top 3 QB's in the NFL. Everyone would have Manning and Brady but #3 would be the argument.
                                                            Comment
                                                            • austintx05
                                                              SBR MVP
                                                              • 08-24-06
                                                              • 3156

                                                              #65
                                                              Originally posted by ryanXL977
                                                              what consistency has wang shown that haren and felix have not? the factyou say hudson and smoltz arent better than wang speaks volumes it hink


                                                              and 3 starts make a season? i guess wang last night was the norm then
                                                              umm the fact that he has more wins than ANY PITCHER IN BASEBALL the last 2 years.
                                                              Comment
                                                              • austintx05
                                                                SBR MVP
                                                                • 08-24-06
                                                                • 3156

                                                                #66
                                                                Originally posted by diogee
                                                                I would take Smoltz or Hudson over Wang...but this is an opinionated argument. Nobody is going to agree. Would be the same thing when arguing the top 3 QB's in the NFL. Everyone would have Manning and Brady but #3 would be the argument.
                                                                AGAIN, I am not picking Wang over Hudson. I am simply saying that Wang is a top 10 pitcher. (top5 in my book, but for the sake of argument I will extend it ti top 10)
                                                                Comment
                                                                • ryanXL977
                                                                  SBR Posting Legend
                                                                  • 02-24-08
                                                                  • 20615

                                                                  #67
                                                                  nobody cares about wins, the sp doesnt control them
                                                                  they dont show a true reflection of the sp
                                                                  its a lie of a stat
                                                                  a lie i say
                                                                  Comment
                                                                  • austintx05
                                                                    SBR MVP
                                                                    • 08-24-06
                                                                    • 3156

                                                                    #68
                                                                    Originally posted by ryanXL977
                                                                    nobody cares about wins, the sp doesnt control them
                                                                    they dont show a true reflection of the sp
                                                                    its a lie of a stat
                                                                    a lie i say
                                                                    yeah your right. NOBODY CARES ABOUT WINS. I guess they base Championships on TEAM COLOR.
                                                                    Comment
                                                                    • diogee
                                                                      SBR Posting Legend
                                                                      • 01-11-08
                                                                      • 19477

                                                                      #69
                                                                      I know...just saying that everyone could argue all season on an argument like this since we all have different opinions on what numbers are the most important.
                                                                      Comment
                                                                      • ryanXL977
                                                                        SBR Posting Legend
                                                                        • 02-24-08
                                                                        • 20615

                                                                        #70
                                                                        one fo the best years i have ever seen a pitcher have was unit 04
                                                                        yet he had like 13 wins bc his teamsucked

                                                                        wins dont show the truth for sps
                                                                        for a team yes, for a sp no
                                                                        Comment
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