BetOT enters the SBR Rating Guide

**rufcut** · 02-14-09, 08:26 PM

Is it known if Phoenix is a rich book being mean, or a poor book struggling to pay?
Are there public accounts for them, as for US and European companies?

I was told on the phone by management that Phoenix owns BetOT, so 'assisting where we can' is a red herring.

**simmmy** · 02-16-09, 09:39 AM

I received a withdraw two weeks ago after making the rollover then last Monday i made another withdrawal of my balance and it has been denied with a note saying the rollover has not been made. My deposit was on the 24th December at 10 times rollover of £500 which i completed, Wendy on live chat confirmed i had completed and my withdrawal was received, i still have the chat of confirmation of completion.Between my deposit they changed the req's of the bonus to include winnings from freeplays which was not in my terms when i deposited, i still have that chat to confirm rollover req's. Then on here one of the rep's stated the winnings from freeplays from the 5th of January came into play, remember i made my deposit 24th December.Now Richard from Phoenix says on here that the terms to which you signed up to is what you need to complete(i have done or i would not of received a withdraw 2 weeks ago). Now my withdraw has been denied saying i have to make another £5K worth of bets even after a received withdraw and confirmation of completion.

Now i have to contact management

RJbetphoenix
SBR Rookie

Join Date: 01-07-09
Posts: 23

Greetings,

I will be handling the Betot issues here moving forward. Please Email me to Richard@betphoenix with details of any pending withdrawals so I can have them expedited. This includes affiliates as well.

With regards to rules. Whatever the rules were at the time of your last deposit is what will stand. There was an update to previous rules effective Jan 22nd. This notification of rule change was posted for a 24 hour period before deployment for all clients. That being said, and deposits after posted rule changes will have the new rules applications.

Thanks,

Richard

**katstale** · 02-16-09, 09:58 AM

Agreed it's a mess over there. Lets hope they get back to emailing/communicating with players this week. Has anyone ever received an email from "Mike" at OT? I know Richard has communicated with players one on one, but I think every player at OT would like to know WHO IS IN CHARGE not only for this present crisis, but for future problems which might arise.

OT players, please report on your progress or lack there of.

If you deposited with an ewallet, I would suggest flexibility on the withdraw--checks or wires etc. It may be some time before they can pay out OT with an ewallet.

**Mudcat** · 02-16-09, 10:17 AM

Okay here is my progress. I played the MB50 promo and completed the rollover - which BetOT confirmed. Requested 4K Moneybookers withdrawal Jan 23 and received the funds Jan. 28th.

Reqested another ~3K on Feb 9th. A couple days later I got an e-mail requesting photo ID. I suppose I could have got into some debate about why they already sent one payout without this ID but screw it, I just sent it.

Still waiting for that payout. I haven't had any word about it. I didn't contact Richard. Ill do that right now.

**katstale** · 02-16-09, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by Mudcat

Reqested another ~3K on Feb 9th. A couple days later I got an e-mail requesting photo ID. I suppose I could have got into some debate about why they already sent one payout without this ID but screw it, I just sent it.

I also got the ID request and assumed it was a "buying time" request on their part and no doubt it was/is, but like you--no big deal I just scanned it in and sent it. I was also willing to be flexible on how I get paid. Hope that helps my situation. Keep the updates coming.

**edkc** · 02-16-09, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by RJbetphoenix

There were payments issued both Monday and Tuesday with more coming today. Most of the business done by Betot is Eastern European in nature, and not North American in nature which is our normal market for fulfillment.

We are doing what we can to assist with this issue, but there are items to be sorted out with some of these accounts. In particular multiple referrers etc. Either way, we are working to assist OT through this.

RJbetphoenix, I have this problem with Betot for almost two months now. They are keeping my money and giving me all sort of excuse.
Betot have owe me 2281USD in total.
I have sent you 2 emails but have yet to hear any reply from you.
My email is Jodie******@gmail.com
This is the chat session I have with Gus from Betot.

Gus: Welcome to Betot.com New Accounts & Referrals department.
Gus: Welcome to Bet OT, how may I help you?
116.25.33.61: I would like to check on my withrawal status
Gus: What is your account number?Please
116.25.33.61: BT1823
Gus: Please hold for a minute, let me check.
116.25.33.61: ok sure
Gus: I see here that your request has been denied as the rollover is short
116.25.33.61: ??
116.25.33.61: I have finish my rollover.
116.25.33.61: This is a new excuse from your side, I have request for my payment some 2 months back, and now you are telling me this.
Gus: I'm sorry, this is what I see in your account
Gus: I see that you have a total rollover of 18,000 and at the time of the request you had only reached 7,000
116.25.33.61: but why are you only telling me this after two months???????
116.25.33.61: please explain clearly on this.
Gus: I'm sorry Jodie, I'm not sure what you mean. I see that your request was taken a week ago
Gus: on Feb 7th
116.25.33.61: Noooo... I have yet to recieve my payment of 2281USD...
116.25.33.61: this request was put up 2 months ago
116.25.33.61: Gus: BT1823
220.255.7.228: oh yeah
Gus: Did you try contacting the payout dept when you first wanted to make the
withdrawal?
220.255.7.228: yes, they told me a delay on neteller, then I ask frank
220.255.7.228: frank promise me that i will have it on last friday latest
Gus: There is a techincal issue at this time that is preventing us from
processing payouts
Gus: I believe that is why you did not recieve the funds on Friday
220.255.7.228: so how now?
Gus: however we are looking into this situation as we speak and hope to have
something resolved shortly
Gus: at this time I don't have much information on this, regretfully
220.255.7.228: on what information? How long are your side holding my funds?

Gus: I know this is a big inconvenience, it is for us as well, but I am not sure
when this will be fully resolved
220.255.7.228: Can I choose other withdrawal method?
Gus: At this moment no payouts are being processed through any method
220.255.7.228: ?????
220.255.7.228: what is wrong out there?
Gus: We are just waiting until we resolve this issue
220.255.7.228: what is the issue? Frank never told me this
220.255.7.228: I was able to choose other withdrawal method last week and now
you are telling me this?
220.255.7.228: this is annoying, are you not paying me ?
Gus: This is nothing personal
Gus: we must place all other requests on hold as well
220.255.7.228: then what should I do now?
Gus: The only thing left to do right now is wait until this can be resolved and
all should be back to normal
116.25.33.61: this is the chat session we have some 2weeks ago
Gus: The request I have in front of me says it was taken on Feb 7th, I'm not sure what happened if you made another request earlier for the same amount
116.25.33.61: Now you are telling me a different thing
116.25.33.61: No ,.......
116.25.33.61: I never recieve my payment and I AM STILL WAITING FOR IT.. PLEASE CHECK
Gus: This is the only request I have, you can send an email to mike@betot.com and richard@betphoenix.com so they can look into this.
116.25.33.61: WHAT REQUEST?

Gus: The only withdrawal request I have is this one taken on Feb 7th
Gus: And I see that it was denied because the rollover has not been completed
116.25.33.61: then why no one tell me this 2months ago?
116.25.33.61: if you check my chat record, you will know that I was promise payment 4 X times and all are no delivered
Gus: I don't have access to those records, please send an email to mike@betot.com and a CC to Richard@betphoenix.com.

He is telling me to look for you and Mike.
Hope you can help me out.
Thanks a Millions

**RJbetphoenix** · 02-16-09, 12:59 PM

We have stepped in to assist with Betot items despite the fact that they were a turnkey item here. You will have the ability to get paid this way. If you tried to take it up with Betot directly, you may not get anything at all. We are looking to do something positive here for all involved.

We are not a European facing venture, and there will be some ewallet delivery times based on the dynamics of cashflow and transfers in that region of the globe. Again, we are stepping in to do the right thing.

I would like to remind you as well, that bonuses and promotions are built to attract clients who are interested in gambling on sports or in a casino. In Las Vegas the same theory holds true, and it is not in the spirit of the business for that relationship to be seen in any other way. Players get comps in casinos world wide based on their action and volume. Not for just showing up. At the same time, they do not stop playing dead cold once a pitt boss hands them a comp. In the case of BetOT there will be some players affected by rollover issues moving forward. Bonuses are not built as ways for players to creatively make money via pricing, leveraging, and scalping, and there are rules that do refer to that as well.

To reiterate, all players will be paid, we are going to support that issue. We are looking to move more payments this week once cleared for multiple IP use, and collusion activities.

**rufcut** · 02-16-09, 01:16 PM

The fact people stopped playing there is because you stopped paying out, not because they were not potentially good clients.

**RJbetphoenix** · 02-16-09, 01:50 PM

Unfortunately, in the majority of instances that is not the case.

Also, since Betot slowed down on payments, we are assisting you to get paid. Betot is similar to a PPH item with us, but we are stepping up for them at this point. In many other cases where this has played out, the players are left hung out to dry, and the host company washes their hands of it. We have not taken that route at all..

**rufcut** · 02-16-09, 02:04 PM

I was told by a manager at Phoenix that Phoenix owns BetOT.
Please would you respond to that.

Your retrospective view on the value of players is also irrelevant. You took people's money under certain terms, and even if they were not the customers you hoped for, any businessperson knows, you cannot with any honour or legality, bait and switch your customers.

**thagame24** · 02-16-09, 02:11 PM

ok I wasn't that worried before, but after reading those 2 posts by Richard I'm getting very worried....I've got a decent sized 4 figure balance with them but i legitimately havent finished my rollover, i've got about 75% of it done. Should I worry about being paid? Should I get through my rollover requirements ASAP? It will probably take me another month to get through the requirements by betting normally. Any advice is appreciated, thanks

**RJbetphoenix** · 02-16-09, 02:18 PM

Betot was a Turnkey housed in the Betphoenix Bldg. There was a service agreement with them. That agreement was dissolved based on their actions (inaction) and business model. We are paying players on their behalf in order to stand good for the fact that they operated in some capacity here, and accepted that possibilty from the beginning. We are however looking at each case to make sure they are legitamate players and accounts. Former Betot ownership is no longer in the building at this time.

**ae2000** · 02-16-09, 02:20 PM

Richard - could you let me know what is happening with my account? You have all the details in a PM. Thank you.

**rufcut** · 02-16-09, 02:23 PM

Phoenix headed for an F at this rate...

**katstale** · 02-16-09, 02:24 PM

I really don't think Phoenix can allow OT to just fade away or go under at this point because it would hurt their "Brand" too much. My advice would be to get a "where am I?" in the rollover question out to them and save that. Then just complete the rollover as you would normally.

I am waiting on a payout this week also. If/when I get that I will continue to have a mid 4 figure balance there that I will try to get in play every day if I can. If i run it up to 5 figures i will look to trim it back. I am a long way from panic mode here.

If Phoenix decides to completely cut ties with OT I will ask for a transfer to Phoenix brand/house.

**Mudcat** · 02-16-09, 02:25 PM

rufcut is right (in my case). I didn't want to cash out but between the payout difficulties I see, and the fact the book cut my limits to 1/10th, I feel I have to say, "Okay I am getting out for now and will keep an eye on things for the future."

It is also worth bearing in mind IMO, that these bonuses are not exactly like a comp. The one I took came with an 18x rollover - and even the rules for that changed and became more onerous as time went on. No matter in my case - I played well over the required rollover. But I'm saying an 18x rollover is not a totally one-sided thing in the player's favor.

And there was nothing stopping BetOT from setting the rollover higher.

Maybe I should start hiring myself out as a consultant because as soon as I read about some of these promos, I knew where the landmines were. I knew limits would have to be low and the rollover high. I knew there would be lots of winners and lots of payouts and IP issues. I kind of assumed BetOT knew all this too and was purposely taking a calculated financial hit up-front to build up a customer base. But it seems like they have been taken by surprise. They shouldn't really have had to cut limits in mid-roll and tinker with the rollover. That should have all been set from the start.

Anyone with any experience should have known where things were going.

No joke. If anyone ever wants me to evaluate any promos, send me a PM and I'll quote you a price.

**fiveteamer** · 02-16-09, 02:28 PM

LOL @ calling an off shore bonus a 'comp'

unreal.

betpheonix you didn't make it.

**RJbetphoenix** · 02-16-09, 02:31 PM

An F book does not pay. We are paying for something that most wouldn't. At the same time, I understand you are allowed to have an opinion as well and respect that.

**rufcut** · 02-16-09, 02:32 PM

I was told by a manager at Phoenix that Phoenix owns BetOT.
Please would you respond to that.

**fiveteamer** · 02-16-09, 02:35 PM

ruffy, he obviously does not want to respond to that.

god bless.

**RJbetphoenix** · 02-16-09, 02:41 PM

Post #327.

5 Teamer, do you have an OT account?

**fiveteamer** · 02-16-09, 02:43 PM

no, i'm just a troll.

god bless.

**doowahdiddy** · 02-16-09, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by fiveteamer

no, i'm just a troll.

May i congratulate you on a fine job too?

**skilos** · 02-16-09, 05:41 PM

Richard i apreciate what you and Betphoenix are doing for the Betot customers and i hope with that SBR can upgrade Betphoenix to "A",
Good work.

**potless** · 02-16-09, 06:04 PM

Has your village notified anyone you are missing yet skil less ?

Is sports -1 fooooooooked as well or has only gus & frank been evicted ?
Will you bail -1 if they go t*ts up ?

**rufcut** · 02-16-09, 06:17 PM

Utter affilliate brown-nosing.

**browntrousers** · 02-16-09, 07:04 PM

woohayyyy skilos is supporting the show! All will be alright now, no worries. Trust skilos.

**RJbetphoenix** · 02-16-09, 07:13 PM

We will stand behind Sports-1 as well based on the same principals and actions taken here with Betot. What matters ultimately is that players are getting their money.

**potless** · 02-16-09, 07:22 PM

It would be much simpler just to operate as phoenix instead of all the subsids ?

So is Frankie cleaning bogs now ?

**GLopez** · 02-16-09, 11:20 PM

Originally posted by RJbetphoenix

We will stand behind Sports-1 as well based on the same principals and actions taken here with Betot. What matters ultimately is that players are getting their money.

Hi Richard, thanks for all your efforts so far to others here!

I'm also a BetOT customer and have received 3 payouts via Moneybookers just fine over the last 2 months (last one on February 4th). However, it's getting slower and slower and I don't feel very comfortable anymore with it.
Could you help me out here by making a payment via the Betphoenix Moneybookers-account please? Would that be possible? Or Neteller would be fine also.
I've emailed this Mike some 2 weeks ago, but not a single reply.

Thanks, GLopez

**betpartners** · 02-17-09, 02:08 AM

I notice Betot are still rated C, considering all i have read here i have to ask what does a sportsbook have to do to actually receive a downgrade.

I understand that a knee jerk reaction is to be avoided but Betot is in a right mess it seems and are in effect being bailed out by Phoenix.

Surely a downgarde allows people to see that at this time they are best avoided considering the problems and when the time come that the problems have been resolved then a re-evaluation can take place.

These seem to be more than teething problems.

**0biwan** · 02-17-09, 07:33 AM

Originally posted by betpartners

I notice Betot are still rated C, considering all i have read here i have to ask what does a sportsbook have to do to actually receive a downgrade.

I understand that a knee jerk reaction is to be avoided but Betot is in a right mess it seems and are in effect being bailed out by Phoenix.

Surely a downgarde allows people to see that at this time they are best avoided considering the problems and when the time come that the problems have been resolved then a re-evaluation can take place.

These seem to be more than teething problems.

Agree!

And I'm Still waiting for my money and for an answer from richard!

**rufcut** · 02-17-09, 08:27 AM

Phoenix promoted OT and S-1, using its own name, and owns those failed/ failing companies.
All three 'companies' in the group should get the same rating, because it's the same people and money behind them; the same people who are bait and switching and slow-paying, the same ethos and level of trustworthiness.

**RJbetphoenix** · 02-17-09, 07:00 PM

please refer to post 327 rufcut. At this point we are stepping in. What is your account number with Betot?

**ae2000** · 02-17-09, 07:07 PM

May as well ask again as my previous requests have been ignored. Can you update me on my situation please?