Fair or foul?
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trixtrixRestricted User
- 04-13-06
- 1897
#141Comment -
trixtrixRestricted User
- 04-13-06
- 1897
#142If you consider this a moral issue, you may ask "What would Jesus do"? I think of it more as gambling issue, so I'd ask "What would Tony do"? Can you imagine how that live chat would go?:
Me: May I speak to Tony please?
Tony :How can I help you?
Me: Why has my arena bet on Arizona canceled?
Tony: Obvious bad line.
Me: Obvious?
Tony: Very.
Tony: Correct line is 12 not 2
Me: Arizona was -2 at all my other Books, so it was not an error.
Tony: You think 2 is a fair line for an 11-2 team at home?
Tony: Versus a sub .500 team?
Tony: You took a shot.
Me: No I didn't. It's a small market event, so a larger line variance is to be expected.
Tony: 10 point variance?
Me: Justin7 and other respected SBR forum members think AZ-2 is a fair bet.
Tony: I could care less what the forums say.
Tony: Anything else?
Me: Yes, you can reinstate my AZ-2 bet.
Tony: No can do.
Tony: But I can disable your account if you persist with this nonsense.
Me: Never mind
Tony: Good. Take another shot and your account will be closed.
Tony: Now get off my live chat.Comment -
yismanSBR Aristocracy
- 09-01-08
- 75682
#143[quote=jjgold;5683305]I win again like usual
[/quote]
[quote=Whippit;7921056]miami won't lose a single eastern conference game through end of season[/quote]Comment -
trixtrixRestricted User
- 04-13-06
- 1897
#145i happen to know that this happens in a lot of smaller mma markets, the trick is also to have smaller limits so your personal book does not get hit hard by knowledgeable bettors (while not making that aspect visible), i prolly already gave up the farm..Comment -
yismanSBR Aristocracy
- 09-01-08
- 75682
#146
CRIS probably took some bets, bet out five times as much at the offscreens who copy their lines exactly, then said we will honor the bets so the offscreens would do the same.
CRIS probably made more that way then they would canceling and on top of it made every other book look stupid.
Yeah, now I see. It was talked about later in the thread. thanks
You know what's funny? If more people cared about AFL, you'd see threads about how the original -2 line was a trap and that you should bet +2.[quote=jjgold;5683305]I win again like usual
[/quote]
[quote=Whippit;7921056]miami won't lose a single eastern conference game through end of season[/quote]Comment -
yismanSBR Aristocracy
- 09-01-08
- 75682
#147
Reading the rules of most books, "obvious error" is not defined. Everyone knows that if a book puts up +3.5 on an NFL game when the market is -3.5, that is an obvious error. In every single dispute I have ever seen with SBR, the market price is a starting point to determine whether there was an obvious error. What if there is no comparable market, like in props? The legendary Henry chewed me out once for voiding wagers once. I screwed up, and a price was set at pick when the fair price was about -500. But, there was no market. Per Henry, "When there is no market, you can't void bets for a bad line".
The market price is the standard for whether there is an obvious error. If you start looking at line movements to determine this, you are suggesting that a weak line put up initially can be voided if there is a big move. There was an NBA game with a 6-point move near the end of last season. Was that bad?
I once wrote for the Pinnacle Pulse about bad lines. Let me quote myself... "A general rule of thumb is that a number is bad if it gives you a 7% EV (expected value) versus the market price." (Pinnacle Pulse #25, incorrectly listed as #24 here: http://www.bettorsworld.com/pinnacle-pulse/24.htm )
I was actually searching for anything regarding that line you quoted from Henry and came across you posting that back in 2006.[quote=jjgold;5683305]I win again like usual
[/quote]
[quote=Whippit;7921056]miami won't lose a single eastern conference game through end of season[/quote]Comment -
wrongturnSBR MVP
- 06-06-06
- 2228
#148Well, books have right to close account for any reason, as long as balance paid in full. Although it sounds unfair to players, it is still better than being paid in full and account closed a day later, without receiving a second choice.Comment -
duritoSBR Posting Legend
- 07-03-06
- 13173
#151They have a selective delay. Line is +4, I try to bet, it thinks for 90 seconds and says no line is now 3.5. I don´t bet, refresh lines, or have someone else check, line is still 4 for everyone else but i can´t bet, they are effectively dealing me +3.5 and -4.Comment -
ForgetWallStreetSBR Sharp
- 04-27-07
- 342
#152They were doing this to me on EVERY premier leagues soccer line I tried to bet when I last played there.Comment -
Justin7SBR Hall of Famer
- 07-31-06
- 8577
#153
Any chance you could do a short vid showing this? Or even screen-shots?Comment -
duritoSBR Posting Legend
- 07-03-06
- 13173
#154It was over a year ago, I don´t have money there anymore.Comment -
bubbaSBR MVP
- 09-29-05
- 2432
#155they definitely did this to me too! if a price looked good, half the time i was unable to bet it.Comment -
evo34SBR MVP
- 11-09-08
- 1032
#156I love how being in a renegade industry (immune to regulation and lawsuits) allows for absurd policies. If a market maker in stock trading makes a big mistake and gets destroyed, guess what...he eats it. He doesn't try to cancel it, claiming he followed some other market maker who made an error. It's very clear what the right ruling is here; the only reason the "obvious error" defense even exists is that sportsbooks have zero responsibility for their actions.Comment -
wrongturnSBR MVP
- 06-06-06
- 2228
#157Why is it a surprise for betus dealing dual lines? Bodog is a leader in that technology. I still think it is a great book though.
Comment -
yismanSBR Aristocracy
- 09-01-08
- 75682
#158It sounds to me like the delay doesn't play into it. If the line was still 4 for everyone else after rejecting the bet, they're just not allowing you to bet +4. It doesn't sound like they'd need a delay to do that.[quote=jjgold;5683305]I win again like usual
[/quote]
[quote=Whippit;7921056]miami won't lose a single eastern conference game through end of season[/quote]Comment -
Justin7SBR Hall of Famer
- 07-31-06
- 8577
#159
If anyone could replicate this with proof, I would do a feature on it. I imagine that if they do this, they only do it to certain accounts.Comment -
wrongturnSBR MVP
- 06-06-06
- 2228
#160The claim against BetUS is worse. It is fair for a book to deal dual lines. The claim here is that BetUS is offering a line, but only willing to take one side of the bet. If you take the "good side", they are claiming the line moved.
If anyone could replicate this with proof, I would do a feature on it. I imagine that if they do this, they only do it to certain accounts.Comment -
duritoSBR Posting Legend
- 07-03-06
- 13173
#161They don't. The delay is used to pretend they aren't selectively taking action. It is supposed to appear that the line just happened to change during the delay.Comment -
skrtelfanSBR MVP
- 10-09-08
- 1913
#162
I don't understand why Justin7 doesn't seem to know about this issue because I've read many threads where this issue has been discussed in response to Justin7's discussion of BetUS.Comment -
skrtelfanSBR MVP
- 10-09-08
- 1913
#163The claim against BetUS is worse. It is fair for a book to deal dual lines. The claim here is that BetUS is offering a line, but only willing to take one side of the bet. If you take the "good side", they are claiming the line moved.
If anyone could replicate this with proof, I would do a feature on it. I imagine that if they do this, they only do it to certain accounts.Comment -
Justin7SBR Hall of Famer
- 07-31-06
- 8577
#164Same thing here, as ForgetWallStreet says below, the dual line thing seems worse with soccer. As the other poster says, the delay really isn't necessary to do that, and sometimes the line changes immediately while other times it does the 90 second pause.
I don't understand why Justin7 doesn't seem to know about this issue because I've read many threads where this issue has been discussed in response to Justin7's discussion of BetUS.Comment -
ForgetWallStreetSBR Sharp
- 04-27-07
- 342
#165When you get kicked from there they make it so you that can't even log in so most of those who have experienced this issue in the past won't be able to help you here.Comment -
trixtrixRestricted User
- 04-13-06
- 1897
#166
that is explicitly punishing the players for something the book could've spelled out up front, essentially punishing the players for a book's lazinessComment -
FrankSBR Wise Guy
- 10-13-07
- 918
#167the pt of contention is NOT whether book has the right to close account, it's whether it would be fair to the players if they don't explicitly define the reason for doing so up front.
that is explicitly punishing the players for something the book could've spelled out up front, essentially punishing the players for a book's laziness
It's like a boxer smashing his oppenent's face at the beginning of the fight when he was trying to touch gloves. There isn't a rule on that.
It's a cheap shot.Comment -
trixtrixRestricted User
- 04-13-06
- 1897
#168there is an explicit rule on that: "protect yourself at all times" (in fact the ref reiterates this at the beginning of every fight)Comment -
wrongturnSBR MVP
- 06-06-06
- 2228
#169the pt of contention is NOT whether book has the right to close account, it's whether it would be fair to the players if they don't explicitly define the reason for doing so up front.
that is explicitly punishing the players for something the book could've spelled out up front, essentially punishing the players for a book's lazinessComment -
FrankSBR Wise Guy
- 10-13-07
- 918
#170
It is something taught to boxers as a guideline to fight by kinda like don't take shots is a guideline to gamble by.Comment -
trixtrixRestricted User
- 04-13-06
- 1897
#171
Obey the referee's instructions. Protect yourself at all times. In the event of a knockdown, go to a neutral corner. Touch gloves and wait for the bell to start round one.
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sharpcatRestricted User
- 12-19-09
- 4516
#172it is an explicit instruction given to the fighters both in their dressing rooms and before the match by the referee, you're 100% wrong here, i'm a bit of stickler when it comes to fight sports
Obey the referee's instructions. Protect yourself at all times. In the event of a knockdown, go to a neutral corner. Touch gloves and wait for the bell to start round one.
http://ezinearticles.com/?Protect-Yo...mes&id=6092492
Protect yourself at all times is warned seconds before the start of every single fight for at least the last 30+ years.
You drop your guard and get KO'd you got KO'd!!!!!!!!!!Comment -
soxwin1917SBR MVP
- 09-09-08
- 1188
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FrankSBR Wise Guy
- 10-13-07
- 918
#174it is an explicit instruction given to the fighters both in their dressing rooms and before the match by the referee, you're 100% wrong here, i'm a bit of stickler when it comes to fight sports
Obey the referee's instructions. Protect yourself at all times. In the event of a knockdown, go to a neutral corner. Touch gloves and wait for the bell to start round one.
http://ezinearticles.com/?Protect-Yo...mes&id=6092492
The same could be said as taking a shot at a book or a book taking a shot at a player.
All are cheap shots.Comment -
sharpcatRestricted User
- 12-19-09
- 4516
#175
Gamblers dropping their guard are fair game to bookies.
Why are bookies exempt from paying the price when they drop their guard?Comment
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