Issue with 5dimes grading on Wrestlemania

[KEdge2k]

Yes, yes, I know, its wrestling, its scripted, blah blah, but I think 5dimes has made an error in their grading of this event. I've talked to Tony but he won't budge on his stance. I have a Miz +1000 ticket that was graded as "cancelled" instead of as a winner as a result of Tony's decision. The rules, as quoted, for this type of event are as follows (taken from a chat with a 5dimes rep on live chat):

"Results will be graded/regraded based on the official result at ringside. A result may be revised or altered after initial presentation by the ring announcer. Results are not official for wagering purposes until verified by officials at the fighting venue. Official or unofficial sanctioning body overturns of a fight decision based on appeal, suspension, lawsuit, drug testing result, or any other fighter sanction will not be recognized for wagering purposes."

In this case, the match was originally announced by the ring announcer as a double count-out. However, the match was re-started (i.e. "revised or altered after initial presentation by the ring announcer") and the Miz was then announced the victor at the end of the night. WWE's own official website confirms that the Miz was the victor as well (i.e. "verified by officials at the fighting venue.") Despite this, Tony has made clear that his decision will stand as given that all bets on this match will be "cancelled". I attempted to talk with Tony about reconsidering his decision but he was not in the mood to discuss such an option.

Is there anyone here who can possibly help me? I'm a low-limit player and I've probably deposited around 2-3k over 3 years with 5dimes, and have never requested a payout. I'm your average degen gambler who was hoping to use my winnings from my Miz ticket to help me wager on baseball at 5dimes. I even suggested to Tony that perhaps he could grade my Miz ticket a winner and put a rollover requirement on it as a compromise position. He rejected this outright.

[CollegePro]

lolz.... Tony is GOD!!!! don't argue or try to argue with him.

[KEdge2k]

lolz.... Tony is GOD!!!! don't argue or try to argue with him.

I didn't try to argue with him, but I did politely request on chat that he reconsider his decision. He declined. If asked, I'd be more than willing to post my chat with him here if one of the moderators could potentially lend me a hand on this dispute.

[CollegePro]

moderators can't do anything... we are talking about Tony here... he will not negotiate with anyone including SBR!

[KEdge2k]

moderators can't do anything... we are talking about Tony here... he will not negotiate with anyone including SBR!

You'll have to forgive me on this one, I don't monitor this board frequently at all and have never interacted with Tony before today. Sounds like I might be SOL?

[Dad]

Yet another reason 5Dimes scares me = Tony.

I have read nothing but bad things about this fella.

[KEdge2k]

******: Hence why I suggested the compromise of a roll-over requirement on a graded ticket?
Tony: as soon as it is announced a "draw", it is graded
Tony: there is no compromise
Tony: some people lose
Tony: some people win
Tony: that is it
******: But it wasn't graded immediately Tony, until 10 minutes after the event ended
******: Every other match was graded immediately except that one
Tony: as i was in the car on the way home and got a phone call
Tony: i watched the tape
Tony: and i rendered the decision
******: Right
******: I understand that
Tony: as i said at the start of this chat
******: There has to be a guy who says "yes or no"
Tony: when people complain about my decisons, all it does it make me not want to offer these events
Tony: people want to bet on them, then cry when anything they deem as marginal doesn't go their way
******: I understand that. I wasn't trying to complain Tony, I was just hoping to be able to ask you to reconsider your decision. If you are saying "no I won't" then OK, I understand that.
Tony: as per our rules, the grade is correct
Tony: i will make zero concessions on something that is graded exactly to our "letter of the law"
******: I'm not trying to get one over on you here Tony, I get the impression you think I'm trying to take a shot at you guys?
Tony: if i had graded it any other way, you would have a very legitimate complaint
Tony: no, but when i talk to 50 customers all on livehelp asking for the same thing you're asking for

[KEdge2k]

Here's my chat with Tony this morning:

*****: Hi Tony, thanks for taking the time to talk with me this morning, I know you are a busy guy.
Tony: how can I help you today?
*****: I was hoping to talk with you about your teams' decision to grade last night Miz tickets on Wrestlemania as a "cancelled" rather than a "win"
*****: Would it be possible to reconsider this decision?
*****: I have been a long-time customer of 5dimes
Tony: no, all decision are final
Tony: and that decision is the correct one
*****: And while I hate saying it, I don't think I've ever withdrawn any funds on my account and have deposited regularly
Tony: if you can't live with my decisions on such events, ...do not bet on them
*****: Well I was told that if I had any questions or concerns to ask you, so I was attempting to do so
*****: The official WWE website lists Miz as defeating Cena
Tony: did you watch the event?
*****: Would it be possible to work something out like having you grade the ticket a winner and putting a roll over on it perhaps?
*****: Yes of course
Tony: and who did they announce as the winner in the fight initially ?
*****: Initially it was announced as a double count-out, but the final decision as announced by the ring announcer was a Miz victory
*****: Which is what is stated on the WWE website itself
*****: I'm not looking to hit and run on you here Tony
*****: I was hoping to have the funds available to risk on baseball this year
Tony: 5Dimes does not recognize suspended games, protests, overturned decisions, etc., for wagering purposes.

[KEdge2k]

Tony: would you want to offer the national anthem timing
******: I'm sorry about that Tony, I don't know these other customers you have to understand
Tony: props on hot dog eating contests
******: LOL, I understand what you are saying
Tony: WWE
******: I was merely seeing if there might be able to be something that could be done for customer relation purposes, as I mentioned, I've deposited probably $xxxxx with your site and never withdrawn in all my years here
Tony: we got the grade right
******: I was just hoping perhaps that something could be done. But if your position is no and it will not change, then I understand.
Tony: this event isn't going to be used as a springboard to ask for "a handout" or "a bonus"
Tony: today is not the day to ask
******: Tony I don't think I've ever talked to you before, I'm sorry if others are asking about this and what not
******: I don't have any control over them
******: I don't cause problems for your site, I don't take shots, etc.
******: I just like to play the lines you guys put out, that's all
Tony: as you can see, this isn't the day to first meet me in a chat
******: Fair enough.
Tony: as i've already had this conversation more than once
******: I can understand it must be very hectic dealing with similar complaints all the time
******: OK well please do not hold it against me, obviously I was unaware of any previous conversations you may have had
Tony: as i said, people want to wager on these things, then think they're special when the call doesn't go their way
Tony: makes me want to never offer anything like it again
******: I don't know about other people but I don't really think I'm special or anything Tony

[KEdge2k]

******: Was just seeking to talk with the guy that Live Chat told me I needed to talk to last night
Tony: we wrote six figures in action on wrestlemania
******: I'm not trying to be disrespectful
Tony: probably made nothing or lost
******: That's a good handle it sounds like
Tony: and for all that, all i get is grief
******: Again, Tony, I'm not trying to give you grief and I can't have any way to know what others are saying, you know?
Tony: they're saying exactly the same thing you are
Tony: and i'm not holding anything against anyoner
Tony: *anyone
******: Good, I wouldnt want this to reflect negatively on my account, especially considering how much I enjoy 5dimes on a regular basis
******: you guys run a good, solid book
Tony: thank you
******: OK Tony well I know you are busy, thank you for your time, if you ever change your mind on this it would be more than OK with me :-)
Tony: while i'm sure it would be "ok" with you, the decison is correct, and it stands as graded
******: Have a good rest of your day.
Tony: little chance of that, as i'll be in this chat all day

[KEdge2k]

That's the extent of my chat with him. Given the rules as posted regarding initial decision being able to be altered or revised by the ring announcer, and then verified by the officials at the venue, how are Miz tickets not graded winners?


5dimes has been fantastic to me in the past, I love their book and all the betting options they offer and reduced juice. I'm a small potatoes type of player in the big scheme of themes, but this sucks big time.

[KEdge2k]

Can anyone here at SBR management lend a hand? Justin? Dozer? Lou? Or is this just a situation where I have to go pound sand?

[CollegePro]

how much money did you risk on that +1000 odd?? i totally agree with you that they should have grade the bet as winner... but when tony say "no", no matter what you do, he will stand to his initial answer. It's best to only bet on major sporting events.

[CollegePro]

Can anyone here at SBR management lend a hand? Justin? Dozer? Lou? Or is this just a situation where I have to go pound sand?

like i said earlier, they won't lend you a hand because they all know what the outcome will be... they will be wasting their time... and possibly(not saying you are going to do this) if sbr tries to help you without any positive outcome, you might go out and say what a bs sbr is because they couldn't help out the sure winner bet... this will just hurt the sbr... so no reason for SBR to take a chance with Tony....

[KEdge2k]

how much money did you risk on that +1000 odd?? i totally agree with you that they should have grade the bet as winner... but when tony say "no", no matter what you do, he will stand to his initial answer. It's best to only bet on major sporting events.

$41 at +1000 to win $410. I added some late to Miz at something like +160 or so for about 50 bucks before the match started. Both were graded as "cancelled"

[KEdge2k]

like i said earlier, they won't lend you a hand because they all know what the outcome will be... they will be wasting their time... and possibly(not saying you are going to do this) if sbr tries to help you without any positive outcome, you might go out and say what a bs sbr is because they couldn't help out the sure winner bet... this will just hurt the sbr... so no reason for SBR to take a chance with Tony....

So this is not their first go-round with Tony I take it? Excuse my naivety. I just think this is a pretty cut/dry case where there's no discretion even needed on Tony's behalf. By the rules of his book, the bet should be graded as a win. It was cancelled instead -- mind you, not after the initial ruling of a double count-out, but instead, 15 minutes AFTER the re-started match ended and Miz was rendered victorious.

[relaaxx]

I didn't try to argue with him, but I did politely request on chat that he reconsider his decision. He declined. If asked, I'd be more than willing to post my chat with him here if one of the moderators could potentially lend me a hand on this dispute.

file a complaint form here - they may get your money( i think it should have been graded a win), if they think you are right- if not they will tell why they think you are not - either way you get an unbias valid opinion.

[Boscoe]

Bodog and SIA both noted that official results would come from WWE.com. Not sure why 5dimes couldn't use that same common sense.

http://www.wwe.com/shows/wrestlemania/wrestlemaniaxxvii/miz-cena

[KEdge2k]

file a complaint form here - they may get your money( i think it should have been graded a win), if they think you are right- if not they will tell why they think you are not - either way you get an unbias valid opinion.

I submitted a complaint form. I'll keep this thread updated with what happens.

[Dad]

Bet should have been graded a win IMO.

Tony sounds like a whiny bitch throughout that chat. Like he wants you to feel sorry for him almost.

[firedawg]

i have had it with 5 dimes....... either he makes the correct changes to my account or i will bash the fukkk out of them every day i post on sbr....

[katstale]

Dude, you are for sure never going to see any money from that wager. So give that up, but the whole forum appreciates you posting words of Wisdom from on high. You get props for that!!

I still think SBRJohn should have Tony come to the bash and just sit up on the stage all alone in a chair and with only a microphone. maybe in some toga like robe. The crowd gets to ask like 20 questions and mahaTony answers them with full front end malignment. No doubt all will leave with some life altering nugget.

[KEdge2k]

Dude, you are for sure never going to see any money from that wager. So give that up, but the whole forum appreciates you posting words of Wisdom from on high. You get props for that!!

I still think SBRJohn should have Tony come to the bash and just sit up on the stage all alone in a chair and with only a microphone. maybe in some toga like robe. The crowd gets to ask like 20 questions and mahaTony answers them with full front end malignment. No doubt all will leave with some life altering nugget.

Kat, do you say I won't see any money from that wager because of the nature of the event wagered on? Because it's Tony? Some other reason?

Also, I hope that the reference to words of wisdom from on high is not sarcasm? I'm just trying to seek resolution of an incorrectly graded wager.

[firedawg]

i dont care about tony, as he has always been a dikk.... the facts are the facts and sbr is here for situations like this..... he is wrong in this situation and runs an A+ book according to sbr... so lets see if they are an A+ book

[the_situation]

that sucks man...the only thing you can do is file a complaint, but from what i've read it's hard to see it being overturned...good luck

they must have got a lot of action on The Miz for the line to drop from +1000 to like +140 by fight time...

[KEdge2k]

that sucks man...the only thing you can do is file a complaint, but from what i've read it's hard to see it being overturned...good luck

they must have got a lot of action on The Miz for the line to drop from +1000 to like +140 by fight time...

Exactly. I don't want to attribute any malice or ill will on behalf of 5dimes, cause they've always been good to me and treated me well in the past, but Miz did start around +1000 and moved to basically -120 closer to the event. That screams out to me that they had to take a ton of Miz action to move that big of an underdog basically to a pick. If Miz is graded as the winner, that could be a lot of +200 and above payouts for 5dimes. Could that be motivating their decision at all?

[firedawg]

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[rsigley]

i lost cole +1000 (he won but decision was reversed) for $250/$2500 and a bunch of miz at various odds (from +700 to +200)

it happens, rules were posted and followed with the grading. if it said wwf website for official results then it would be different, but just have to live with it. no complaints

[KEdge2k]

i lost cole +1000 (he won but decision was reversed) for $250/$2500 and a bunch of miz at various odds (from +700 to +200)

it happens, rules were posted and followed with the grading. if it said wwf website for official results then it would be different, but just have to live with it. no complaints

I disagree. The rules specifically stated that:

"Results will be graded/regraded based on the official result at ringside. A result may be revised or altered after initial presentation by the ring announcer. Results are not official for wagering purposes until verified by officials at the fighting venue. Official or unofficial sanctioning body overturns of a fight decision based on appeal, suspension, lawsuit, drug testing result, or any other fighter sanction will not be recognized for wagering purposes."

I don't see how they can hang their hat on their interpretation of the outcome given that they admit that a result may be revised or altered after initial presentation by the ring announcer. After the initial double-count out finish, the match was re-started, and the final, official result, even as announced by the ring announcer, was that the Miz was the winner.

[rsigley]

Think of it like they had two fights. The first Miz fight bet on was a draw and ended in a double count out. The rematch that took after it and no one bet on was a Miz victory.

It wasn't revised or altered, they had 2 matches. In the cole match it was an "overturned decision" so that was a loss too. It happens.

[KEdge2k]

Think of it like they had two fights. The first Miz fight bet on was a draw and ended in a double count out. The rematch that took after it and no one bet on was a Miz victory.

It wasn't revised or altered, they had 2 matches. In the cole match it was an "overturned decision" so that was a loss too. It happens.

That sure sounds like stretching it a little bit. The official results won't list two matches, just one:

Miz (c) def. John Cena

[chemicalbrother]

Bodog and SIA both noted that official results would come from WWE.com. Not sure why 5dimes couldn't use that same common sense.

see below, obviously..

Exactly. I don't want to attribute any malice or ill will on behalf of 5dimes, cause they've always been good to me and treated me well in the past, but Miz did start around +1000 and moved to basically -120 closer to the event. That screams out to me that they had to take a ton of Miz action to move that big of an underdog basically to a pick. If Miz is graded as the winner, that could be a lot of +200 and above payouts for 5dimes. Could that be motivating their decision at all?

of course it is.

when tony is whining about 'breaking even or losing a little and all i get is grief for it', imagine if he had to pay out all those bets in the +120 to +1000 range. he would've taken a ******* bath, on wrestlemania of all things.

took him 15 minutes after the 2nd decision was announced to grade because he had to check the numbers and make sure he knew exactly what he was getting into.

for a 3-digit loss, i bet he comes up with something...

for a 5-digit loss, he's gonna 'go by the letter of the law' and thank the lord above he didn't have to pay out with all that exposure to huge odds.

[chemicalbrother]

That sure sounds like stretching it a little bit. The official results won't list two matches, just one:

Miz (c) def. John Cena

rsigley is in the same boat as everyone in this thread i believe..

[KEdge2k]

The difference between the Miz/Cena results and the Lawler/Cole result is that the final as announced by the ring announcer was Miz to win, whereas the final as announced by the ring announcer was a Lawler win. Cole was only named the winner by the "anonymous raw GM" who is NOT the ring announcer.

[sparkyasu]

Tony did the right thing by cancelling this. Either way both sides would be pissed. The match ruling and being refought and then ruled made it too messed up for wagers