Pinnacle v Betfair

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  • Zak
    SBR High Roller
    • 10-20-10
    • 102

    #36
    Wouldn't be without either if I'm honest. Put more volume through Betfair for ease, but Pinnies do have some great odds.
    Comment
    • odysseus
      SBR High Roller
      • 11-30-09
      • 134

      #37
      Originally posted by Hareeba!
      BF comm is usually lower than 5% too

      I suspect that not enough punters have yet learned how to really make the most of exchanges in that they simply look at the odds currently available to back their choice.

      If you are leaving it to the death, then you probably have no other option but if you allow yourself plenty of time and are able to monitor the position, exchange markets become more mature and closer to 100% so you will very often be able to obtain a reasonable margin in excess of say Pinnacle's odds if you put in an offer on the exchange.
      Even if BF is close to a 100% market the comm is 5% of winnings unless you put a lot of money thru' them and get a discount. If you do a lot of trading on lots of markets, and end up winning, you stand a chance of being liable for premium charges. My point is that the sum of charges for BF is generally more than paying the Pinny lowish juice IMO
      Comment
      • Hareeba!
        BARRELED IN @ SBR!
        • 07-01-06
        • 37250

        #38
        Originally posted by loyd
        did Pinnacle limit you? i think you are the first one who got limited by them.
        LOL
        No!
        Heaven forbid! $25 limits at Pinnacle would spell the end of the world!
        That post was in response to someone saying they preferred 12Bet and Mansion!
        Comment
        • acw
          SBR Wise Guy
          • 08-29-05
          • 576

          #39
          Originally posted by odysseus
          Even if BF is close to a 100% market the comm is 5% of winnings unless you put a lot of money thru' them and get a discount. If you do a lot of trading on lots of markets, and end up winning, you stand a chance of being liable for premium charges. My point is that the sum of charges for BF is generally more than paying the Pinny lowish juice IMO
          Finally someone that knows what he is talking about!

          Sad thing about BetFair is that due to their commission structure (different from Matchbook) in order to use it optimally one simply has to trade. I refuse to do that and as such I do not bet on BetFair.
          Comment
          • Hareeba!
            BARRELED IN @ SBR!
            • 07-01-06
            • 37250

            #40
            Originally posted by acw
            Finally someone that knows what he is talking about!

            Sad thing about BetFair is that due to their commission structure (different from Matchbook) in order to use it optimally one simply has to trade. I refuse to do that and as such I do not bet on BetFair.
            When looking at Betfair, do you look only at what's currently on offer or do you place bids for the price you would like to get?

            I don't trade but I do use Betfair a lot. I do so because I can extract better (net) prices very frequently (not always) than elsewhere, including Pinnacle.

            I do agree that their commission is relatively high but if you are a regular there you can bring it way down below 5% and then their odds become more than competitive with the best alternative sites. For US sports it is certainly less useful than Matchbook, where again you can almost always beat Pinnacle's prices.

            But I again stress that players need to learn how to use exchanges more efficiently by putting up their own offers to obtain better prices.
            Comment
            • JC_GUFC
              SBR Rookie
              • 10-21-10
              • 14

              #41
              Originally posted by Hareeba!
              When looking at Betfair, do you look only at what's currently on offer or do you place bids for the price you would like to get?

              I don't trade but I do use Betfair a lot. I do so because I can extract better (net) prices very frequently (not always) than elsewhere, including Pinnacle.
              I somewhat agree but the danger with this is that if the line moves you'll obviously get your bet matched at a worse price than would be available.

              I probably should use betfair/betdaq more for putting up bids but with accounts at SBO, 12bet, Pinnacle and most UK firms I can nearly always get the betfair price even ignoring comission
              Comment
              • Tomahawk
                SBR Sharp
                • 04-24-10
                • 358

                #42
                I like betfair for UK horse racing and EU sports. I only play at pinnacle when I bet on American sports.
                Comment
                • Stefan
                  SBR MVP
                  • 03-21-09
                  • 3481

                  #43
                  That's not the only danger. What do you do if the line moves in the wrong direction? To get a better price at Betfair than at the Asians you mostly have to ask for a much better price than current offered. Without a line move at the Asians this bet wouldn't be matched.
                  Comment
                  • loyd
                    SBR Sharp
                    • 02-16-10
                    • 376

                    #44
                    Originally posted by Hareeba!
                    LOL
                    No!
                    Heaven forbid! $25 limits at Pinnacle would spell the end of the world!
                    you got me scratching my head for a moment got to know thare r still some safe heavens in the dark world of US bookies.
                    Comment
                    • tommygun
                      SBR MVP
                      • 07-01-10
                      • 2239

                      #45
                      Originally posted by jimbo747
                      I disagree. On favourites, you can often get better odds at other books. Thats not even including potential premium tax.
                      Don't agree with anything you are saying.
                      BETTING EXCHANGES, easy money.

                      Soccer Tipping: 5-0-1
                      Comment
                      • tommygun
                        SBR MVP
                        • 07-01-10
                        • 2239

                        #46
                        IMHO betfair is all you could need if you were a serious bettor, best live markets, options of trading, locking in a profit, best odds guaranteed for horse racing and grey hound racing, normally higher odds than other books in most markets, good customer service, fast payout, lots of different markets to bet on. Love the high odds.
                        BETTING EXCHANGES, easy money.

                        Soccer Tipping: 5-0-1
                        Comment
                        • cochise
                          SBR Rookie
                          • 03-30-09
                          • 13

                          #47
                          Originally posted by tommygun
                          IMHO betfair is all you could need if you were a serious bettor, best live markets, options of trading, locking in a profit, best odds guaranteed for horse racing and grey hound racing, normally higher odds than other books in most markets, good customer service, fast payout, lots of different markets to bet on. Love the high odds.

                          Tommy, in your expirience; if one was to be a fulltime trader at betfair, which is the best adviceable way to fund/withdraw from betfair ?
                          Comment
                          • Stefan
                            SBR MVP
                            • 03-21-09
                            • 3481

                            #48
                            Originally posted by tommygun
                            IMHO betfair is all you could need if you were a serious bettor, best live markets, options of trading, locking in a profit, best odds guaranteed for horse racing and grey hound racing, normally higher odds than other books in most markets, good customer service, fast payout, lots of different markets to bet on. Love the high odds.
                            I can't agree with that. The odds for soccer bets are mostly worse than at the asian bookies. For example:

                            Velez Sarsfield - Estudiantes ------------ Game starts in 2 hours.
                            Betfair 2.06 (without fee) volume 50 EUR
                            Pinnacle 2.04
                            12BET 2.04
                            188BET 2.041
                            SBOBET 2.07

                            The odds of every asian bookie are better than the odds at Betfair.
                            Comment
                            • kiwi
                              SBR Wise Guy
                              • 08-11-05
                              • 674

                              #49
                              Originally posted by HeeeHAWWWW
                              The best of pinnacle+sbo+ibc pretty much always has better odds than betfair on major markets (after commission). Then there's premium tax.....
                              I fully agree.

                              You could add the greedy behaviour of Betfair in general (also apart from the premium charges - look for example how the commission structure changed over the years) and the arrogant and incompetent customer service.
                              Comment
                              • Hareeba!
                                BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                • 07-01-06
                                • 37250

                                #50
                                Originally posted by Stefan
                                I can't agree with that. The odds for soccer bets are mostly worse than at the asian bookies. For example:

                                Velez Sarsfield - Estudiantes ------------ Game starts in 2 hours.
                                Betfair 2.06 (without fee) volume 50 EUR
                                Pinnacle 2.04
                                12BET 2.04
                                188BET 2.041
                                SBOBET 2.07

                                The odds of every asian bookie are better than the odds at Betfair.
                                of course there are matches where that is the case
                                you've selected an example of a low profile game about to start when most Poms (most of Betfair's customers) are sleeping
                                it's not the case for major leagues / games
                                as I've said repeatedly you don't just look at what's on offer at Betfair .. ask for more within reason and every likelihood you'll get it, but you have to have the time to monitor it - you can't do that at the books you've mentioned
                                Comment
                                • Hareeba!
                                  BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                  • 07-01-06
                                  • 37250

                                  #51
                                  Originally posted by kiwi
                                  I fully agree.

                                  You could add the greedy behaviour of Betfair in general (also apart from the premium charges - look for example how the commission structure changed over the years) and the arrogant and incompetent customer service.
                                  yeah perhaps all true but despite it, Betfair remains #1 overall for punters who don't predominately bet US sports.
                                  Comment
                                  • OMGRandyJackson
                                    SBR MVP
                                    • 02-07-10
                                    • 1680

                                    #52
                                    Hey guys, just curious what do you mean when you say "Betfair has liquidity problems at some markets (european basketball, handball, volleyball etc.)"?
                                    Comment
                                    • Hareeba!
                                      BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                      • 07-01-06
                                      • 37250

                                      #53
                                      Originally posted by OMGRandyJackson
                                      Hey guys, just curious what do you mean when you say "Betfair has liquidity problems at some markets (european basketball, handball, volleyball etc.)"?
                                      simply insufficient interest in it amongst Betfair customers to ensure a mature market will develop and thus if you wish to bet serious money you'll not likely be fully accommodated there or obtain a fair price
                                      Comment
                                      • Chopsticks
                                        SBR MVP
                                        • 06-30-09
                                        • 1057

                                        #54
                                        Not that it really matters much in this discussion, but http://www.egrmagazine.com/news/5939...schecker.thtml is slightly interesting.

                                        "The Stoke-based operator achieved a market share of 16.3% in September, widening the gap to Betfair, which accounted for 12.7% of market clicks on the site. The Stoke-based operator has now topped the list for seven successive months. "

                                        1. Bet365 16.3%
                                        2. Betfair 12.7%
                                        3. Stan James 9.8%
                                        4. Ladbrokes 9.5%
                                        5. Paddy Power 8.5%
                                        6. William Hill 6.8%
                                        7. SkyBet 5.3%
                                        8. V Chandler 5.0%
                                        9. Coral 4.6%
                                        10. Betfred 4.6%

                                        If people click through from an odds comparison website then chances are that they have more accounts (why else use that site?) and that a lot of the time they click on the biggest price. Bet365 have beaten betfair several times already this year. Of course, this is probably because of various promotions like best odds guaranteed, bonuses and so on (betfair also have that but still...), and maybe also because of the brand name.
                                        Comment
                                        • OMGRandyJackson
                                          SBR MVP
                                          • 02-07-10
                                          • 1680

                                          #55
                                          Ahhh i see i see. Thank you Hareeba!
                                          Comment
                                          • kiwi
                                            SBR Wise Guy
                                            • 08-11-05
                                            • 674

                                            #56
                                            Originally posted by Hareeba!
                                            yeah perhaps all true but despite it, Betfair remains #1 overall for punters who don't predominately bet US sports.
                                            ... Maybe for you and that's fine with me. But I clearly prefer Pinnacle and the asians and 99% of my bets are soccer bets (AH and over/under).
                                            Comment
                                            • Hareeba!
                                              BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                              • 07-01-06
                                              • 37250

                                              #57
                                              Originally posted by Chopsticks
                                              Not that it really matters much in this discussion, but http://www.egrmagazine.com/news/5939...schecker.thtml is slightly interesting.

                                              "The Stoke-based operator achieved a market share of 16.3% in September, widening the gap to Betfair, which accounted for 12.7% of market clicks on the site. The Stoke-based operator has now topped the list for seven successive months. "

                                              1. Bet365 16.3%
                                              2. Betfair 12.7%
                                              3. Stan James 9.8%
                                              4. Ladbrokes 9.5%
                                              5. Paddy Power 8.5%
                                              6. William Hill 6.8%
                                              7. SkyBet 5.3%
                                              8. V Chandler 5.0%
                                              9. Coral 4.6%
                                              10. Betfred 4.6%

                                              If people click through from an odds comparison website then chances are that they have more accounts (why else use that site?) and that a lot of the time they click on the biggest price. Bet365 have beaten betfair several times already this year. Of course, this is probably because of various promotions like best odds guaranteed, bonuses and so on (betfair also have that but still...), and maybe also because of the brand name.
                                              That's interesting but not sure what one can really glean from it. There's no way they can measure the relative value of bets placed as a result of all that clicking.

                                              I'd suggest that Betfair users on the whole are more sophisticated punters than those who select by clicking on a site from one of those services.
                                              Comment
                                              • Chopsticks
                                                SBR MVP
                                                • 06-30-09
                                                • 1057

                                                #58
                                                Originally posted by Hareeba!
                                                That's interesting but not sure what one can really glean from it. There's no way they can measure the relative value of bets placed as a result of all that clicking.

                                                I'd suggest that Betfair users on the whole are more sophisticated punters than those who select by clicking on a site from one of those services.
                                                Yes I agree it is hard to tell and you just never know what drives someone. Value is not only measured in odds, but also promotions related to it. Like the Bet365 4/1 offer, best odds guaranteed on races, FPTP, various refund if 2nd place, refund if a certain score happens, refund if the Queen shows up and sneezes.....

                                                But I am not sure I agree that a Betfair user is more sophisticated as a punter than someone who uses an odds comparison website. They would by definition be looking for the best value/odds and they don't religiously stick to Betfair or Bet365 or Pinnacle. That is the correct way of going about it in my opinion. I almost always check an odds comparison website and almost always the odds are better in other places than Betfair. Of course this is not because other books have better odds, but because they are just slow to move.

                                                This has nothing to do with BF vs Pin but just an observation. In my opinion one of the asians (not just the main ones + pinnacle) will always have same/better odds than Betfair. That is why I rarely use Betfair.
                                                Comment
                                                • Sawyer
                                                  SBR Hall of Famer
                                                  • 06-01-09
                                                  • 7761

                                                  #59
                                                  Originally posted by Tomahawk
                                                  I like betfair for UK horse racing and EU sports. I only play at pinnacle when I bet on American sports.
                                                  Same here bud. You can't lay horses at Pinnacle. You can't make Under/CS trading/scalping in Pinnacle like Betfair.

                                                  In fact, it's absurd to compare Pinnacle and Betfair. Pinnacle is a sportsbook. Betfair is a betting exchange, more trading oriented. You can't lay horses at Pinnacle. If you like to make scalping/trading, Betfair is your best bet. If you like to place straight wagers, go to Pinnacle.
                                                  Comment
                                                  • Hareeba!
                                                    BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                                    • 07-01-06
                                                    • 37250

                                                    #60
                                                    Originally posted by Chopsticks;701***3

                                                    But I am not sure I agree that a Betfair user is more sophisticated as a punter than someone who uses an odds comparison website. They would by definition be looking for the best value/odds and they don't religiously stick to Betfair or Bet365 or Pinnacle. That is the correct way of going about it in my opinion. I almost always check an odds comparison website and almost always the odds are better in other places than Betfair. Of course this is not because other books have better odds, but because they are just slow to move.
                                                    hey, that's not what I meant at all
                                                    I religiously use odds comparison services but can't recall the last time I clicked on one to load a bookie site.
                                                    When I'm working, I already have them all loaded and I'd expect a huge proportion of Betfair users would do likewise

                                                    Originally posted by Chopsticks;701***3
                                                    This has nothing to do with BF vs Pin but just an observation. In my opinion one of the asians (not just the main ones + pinnacle) will always have same/better odds than Betfair. That is why I rarely use Betfair.
                                                    yes but as I've said repeatedly, the odds you see at Betfair are not the same as the odds you can extract from them

                                                    it is seeming more and more obvious that people have yet to learn how to use exchanges to there optimum
                                                    Comment
                                                    • Hareeba!
                                                      BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                                      • 07-01-06
                                                      • 37250

                                                      #61
                                                      Originally posted by kiwi
                                                      ... Maybe for you and that's fine with me. But I clearly prefer Pinnacle and the asians and 99% of my bets are soccer bets (AH and over/under).
                                                      Yeah, that's fine ... a very valid reason for you to nominate Pinnacle ahead of Betfair due to your preferred sports

                                                      I too place most of my soccer bets at the Asians and Pinnacle
                                                      Comment
                                                      • Chopsticks
                                                        SBR MVP
                                                        • 06-30-09
                                                        • 1057

                                                        #62
                                                        Originally posted by Hareeba!

                                                        yes but as I've said repeatedly, the odds you see at Betfair are not the same as the odds you can extract from them

                                                        it is seeming more and more obvious that people have yet to learn how to use exchanges to there optimum
                                                        So you mean that you can queue or something? I still don't buy it and there is no way that you will benefit much from using Betfair over Pinnacle. Except if betting on the underdog all the time.

                                                        Tottenham - Everton

                                                        BF, you can take 2.08, queue for 2.10. If you get 2.10 for $100 then you win $104.5.
                                                        12bet, 2.09 is available, bet $100 and win $109.
                                                        (Pinnacle 2.06 but still better than betfair)

                                                        For a bet on Everton you will earn $10 if you successfully queue, if else then pinnacle is better for about $1.

                                                        A draw bet is best with Pinnacle at 3.48, you can queue for 3.50 with Betfair. Pinnacle is better by $10 if you successfully queue.

                                                        Chelsea - Wolves
                                                        A bet on Chelsea is worth maybe 50c more at pinnacle than at betfair.

                                                        A bet on Wolves is worth a massive $1000-ish more at betfair if you successfully queue.

                                                        the draw is worth about $5 more at betfair if you can queue. 188bet is the best option with +$15 over betfair.

                                                        Sunderland - Villa
                                                        Sunderland - Even if you queue, pinnacle is still better by about $4. Other asians slightly better.

                                                        Aston Villa is better by about 50c if you successfully queue.

                                                        Pinnacle is better by about $1.50 on the draw even if you queue.

                                                        WBA - Fulham
                                                        WBA is $2.50 better at Pinnacle than betfair if you successfully queue.
                                                        Fulham is better by about $14 if you queue.
                                                        The draw is better by about $11 on Pinnacle if you manage to queue at betfair.

                                                        West Ham - Newcastle
                                                        Pinnacle is better by $1.50-ish for W.ham even if you successfully queue at betfair.
                                                        Newcastle is better at betfair by about $6 if you queue at betfair.
                                                        The draw is better by $7.50-ish at pinnacle even if you successfully queue at betfair.

                                                        Wigan - Bolton
                                                        Wigan is better at pinnacle by about $1.50 compared to a successful queue at bf.
                                                        Bolton is better by about $4 at betfair if you successfully queue. There is a gap in the market for this one though!
                                                        The draw is better at pinnacle by about $6.50 even if you queue at betfair.

                                                        So the lesson is:
                                                        Betfair is almost never best for betting on the favorite (as observed by others in this thread as well!). Never bet on the draw with betfair. Always check betfair when you want to bet on a huge outsider.

                                                        These calcs were all done using $100 stakes and 5% commission. I used the available lay price as back price (so I queued!). However there is no guarantee at all that you will successfully queue for all these bets. I gave up looking for other asian odds after the first few ones because I saw that there was just no need to, pinnacle beats betfair easily.
                                                        Comment
                                                        • Hareeba!
                                                          BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                                          • 07-01-06
                                                          • 37250

                                                          #63
                                                          Originally posted by Chopsticks
                                                          So you mean that you can queue or something? I still don't buy it and there is no way that you will benefit much from using Betfair over Pinnacle. Except if betting on the underdog all the time.

                                                          Tottenham - Everton

                                                          BF, you can take 2.08, queue for 2.10. If you get 2.10 for $100 then you win $104.5.
                                                          12bet, 2.09 is available, bet $100 and win $109.
                                                          (Pinnacle 2.06 but still better than betfair)

                                                          For a bet on Everton you will earn $10 if you successfully queue, if else then pinnacle is better for about $1.

                                                          A draw bet is best with Pinnacle at 3.48, you can queue for 3.50 with Betfair. Pinnacle is better by $10 if you successfully queue.

                                                          Chelsea - Wolves
                                                          A bet on Chelsea is worth maybe 50c more at pinnacle than at betfair.

                                                          A bet on Wolves is worth a massive $1000-ish more at betfair if you successfully queue.

                                                          the draw is worth about $5 more at betfair if you can queue. 188bet is the best option with +$15 over betfair.

                                                          Sunderland - Villa
                                                          Sunderland - Even if you queue, pinnacle is still better by about $4. Other asians slightly better.

                                                          Aston Villa is better by about 50c if you successfully queue.

                                                          Pinnacle is better by about $1.50 on the draw even if you queue.

                                                          WBA - Fulham
                                                          WBA is $2.50 better at Pinnacle than betfair if you successfully queue.
                                                          Fulham is better by about $14 if you queue.
                                                          The draw is better by about $11 on Pinnacle if you manage to queue at betfair.

                                                          West Ham - Newcastle
                                                          Pinnacle is better by $1.50-ish for W.ham even if you successfully queue at betfair.
                                                          Newcastle is better at betfair by about $6 if you queue at betfair.
                                                          The draw is better by $7.50-ish at pinnacle even if you successfully queue at betfair.

                                                          Wigan - Bolton
                                                          Wigan is better at pinnacle by about $1.50 compared to a successful queue at bf.
                                                          Bolton is better by about $4 at betfair if you successfully queue. There is a gap in the market for this one though!
                                                          The draw is better at pinnacle by about $6.50 even if you queue at betfair.

                                                          So the lesson is:
                                                          Betfair is almost never best for betting on the favorite (as observed by others in this thread as well!). Never bet on the draw with betfair. Always check betfair when you want to bet on a huge outsider.

                                                          These calcs were all done using $100 stakes and 5% commission. I used the available lay price as back price (so I queued!). However there is no guarantee at all that you will successfully queue for all these bets. I gave up looking for other asian odds after the first few ones because I saw that there was just no need to, pinnacle beats betfair easily.
                                                          still many hours before those games
                                                          I haven't checked them yet but they will eventually come into 101% markets or pretty close to it
                                                          the other point is that most serious punters aren't paying anywhere near 5% comm. at Betfair
                                                          Comment
                                                          • Chopsticks
                                                            SBR MVP
                                                            • 06-30-09
                                                            • 1057

                                                            #64
                                                            Originally posted by Hareeba!
                                                            still many hours before those games
                                                            I haven't checked them yet but they will eventually come into 101% markets or pretty close to it
                                                            Since I used the queued prices then I am gonna guess I was pretty close to the overround you are referring to. There is only one tick between back/lay on most of these so it wont really make a difference.

                                                            Originally posted by Hareeba!
                                                            the other point is that most serious punters aren't paying anywhere near 5% comm. at Betfair
                                                            That may very well be true. But you would lose a lot of value working your way towards a decent commission rate. Even back in the day when I used Betfair a lot I would mostly stay around 4.50%. But if I did not place a lot of bets the next week then I would go back to 4.70% or something because of the 15% weekly decay.

                                                            Betfair is still good for long odds stuff, which includes first goalscorer, correct score, HT/FT and so on (however you get no 'if' refunds). But for 1x2 and AH you will find better odds with a regular bookie almost every time unless you are backing the outsider (and sometimes the draw when a big outsider is playing).
                                                            Comment
                                                            • Hareeba!
                                                              BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                                              • 07-01-06
                                                              • 37250

                                                              #65
                                                              Originally posted by Chopsticks
                                                              Since I used the queued prices then I am gonna guess I was pretty close to the overround you are referring to. There is only one tick between back/lay on most of these so it wont really make a difference.



                                                              That may very well be true. But you would lose a lot of value working your way towards a decent commission rate. Even back in the day when I used Betfair a lot I would mostly stay around 4.50%. But if I did not place a lot of bets the next week then I would go back to 4.70% or something because of the 15% weekly decay.

                                                              Betfair is still good for long odds stuff, which includes first goalscorer, correct score, HT/FT and so on (however you get no 'if' refunds). But for 1x2 and AH you will find better odds with a regular bookie almost every time unless you are backing the outsider (and sometimes the draw when a big outsider is playing).
                                                              I must confess I don't use Betfair all that much for soccer due to time difference so perhaps you are correct on that score.

                                                              I mostly use them for tennis, rugby and Australian footy where I can most of the time extract better prices if I have the time before the games and for racing where there simply is no contest with Pinnacle.

                                                              And obviously, this being a US facing forum with very few interested in their racing product which is the #1 attraction at Betfair, Pinnacle is getting more ticks than it would from a more balanced audience.
                                                              Comment
                                                              • lukahh
                                                                SBR Wise Guy
                                                                • 04-08-10
                                                                • 941

                                                                #66
                                                                Originally posted by Chopsticks
                                                                So you mean that you can queue or something? I still don't buy it and there is no way that you will benefit much from using Betfair over Pinnacle. Except if betting on the underdog all the time.

                                                                Tottenham - Everton

                                                                BF, you can take 2.08, queue for 2.10. If you get 2.10 for $100 then you win $104.5.
                                                                12bet, 2.09 is available, bet $100 and win $109.
                                                                (Pinnacle 2.06 but still better than betfair)

                                                                For a bet on Everton you will earn $10 if you successfully queue, if else then pinnacle is better for about $1.

                                                                A draw bet is best with Pinnacle at 3.48, you can queue for 3.50 with Betfair. Pinnacle is better by $10 if you successfully queue.

                                                                Chelsea - Wolves
                                                                A bet on Chelsea is worth maybe 50c more at pinnacle than at betfair.

                                                                A bet on Wolves is worth a massive $1000-ish more at betfair if you successfully queue.

                                                                the draw is worth about $5 more at betfair if you can queue. 188bet is the best option with +$15 over betfair.

                                                                Sunderland - Villa
                                                                Sunderland - Even if you queue, pinnacle is still better by about $4. Other asians slightly better.

                                                                Aston Villa is better by about 50c if you successfully queue.

                                                                Pinnacle is better by about $1.50 on the draw even if you queue.

                                                                WBA - Fulham
                                                                WBA is $2.50 better at Pinnacle than betfair if you successfully queue.
                                                                Fulham is better by about $14 if you queue.
                                                                The draw is better by about $11 on Pinnacle if you manage to queue at betfair.

                                                                West Ham - Newcastle
                                                                Pinnacle is better by $1.50-ish for W.ham even if you successfully queue at betfair.
                                                                Newcastle is better at betfair by about $6 if you queue at betfair.
                                                                The draw is better by $7.50-ish at pinnacle even if you successfully queue at betfair.

                                                                Wigan - Bolton
                                                                Wigan is better at pinnacle by about $1.50 compared to a successful queue at bf.
                                                                Bolton is better by about $4 at betfair if you successfully queue. There is a gap in the market for this one though!
                                                                The draw is better at pinnacle by about $6.50 even if you queue at betfair.

                                                                So the lesson is:
                                                                Betfair is almost never best for betting on the favorite (as observed by others in this thread as well!). Never bet on the draw with betfair. Always check betfair when you want to bet on a huge outsider.

                                                                These calcs were all done using $100 stakes and 5% commission. I used the available lay price as back price (so I queued!). However there is no guarantee at all that you will successfully queue for all these bets. I gave up looking for other asian odds after the first few ones because I saw that there was just no need to, pinnacle beats betfair easily.
                                                                it is very good comparison. in my experience, if you want to lay on the favourite, BF is a good place. in general for soccer, pinny is still better, but with patience, as hareeba! says, you can extract good price within a reason. a reasonable price almost always gets matched.
                                                                Comment
                                                                • rki999
                                                                  SBR Sharp
                                                                  • 12-29-09
                                                                  • 282

                                                                  #67
                                                                  If you are a serious bettor, use A+ bookies.
                                                                  Comment
                                                                  • Canada
                                                                    SBR Sharp
                                                                    • 02-14-10
                                                                    • 287

                                                                    #68
                                                                    Buying points on american football allows me to take pinnicle's money.

                                                                    this thread looks like pinnicle's or betfairs cheap ass market research.
                                                                    Comment
                                                                    • Hareeba!
                                                                      BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                                                      • 07-01-06
                                                                      • 37250

                                                                      #69
                                                                      Originally posted by Canada
                                                                      Buying points on american football allows me to take pinnicle's money.

                                                                      this thread looks like pinnicle's or betfairs cheap ass market research.
                                                                      No, I was simply intrigued why so many were putting Pinnacle ahead of Betfair if they aren't predominately US sports players. It sounds like you might be so I would understand in your case but I think that most who can use Betfair have far wider sports interests and overall would nominate Betfair ahead of Pinnacle.
                                                                      Comment
                                                                      • odysseus
                                                                        SBR High Roller
                                                                        • 11-30-09
                                                                        • 134

                                                                        #70
                                                                        Originally posted by Hareeba!
                                                                        yes but as I've said repeatedly, the odds you see at Betfair are not the same as the odds you can extract from them
                                                                        That's all very well before the market has tightened up near to the start eg 2.12 back 2.13 lay but
                                                                        the only way to get better odds in this situation is to "gamble" on a line moverment. It could easily go the other way.
                                                                        Fair enough before this situation ie early on, you can queue for better odds but are not guaranteed to get them.
                                                                        Comment
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