Pinnacle v Betfair

[Hareeba!]

I've just done a poll on the favourite sportsbook thread looking at Pinnacle and Betfair

The score so far is:
Pinnacle 8-4-0
Betfair 4-1-1

Now I am assuming that those who can use one of these can also access the other?

I would be interested in hearing from those who don't restrict themselves primarily to betting on US sports and have voted for Pinnacle but not BetFair as to why they prefer Pinnacle.

[Celtics1905]

Betfair has liquidity problems at some markets (european basketball, handball, volleyball etc.)

it will be better if you use both

[austin]

I've just done a poll on the favourite sportsbook thread looking at Pinnacle and Betfair

The score so far is:
Pinnacle 8-4-0
Betfair 4-1-1

Now I am assuming that those who can use one of these can also access the other?

I would be interested in hearing from those who don't restrict themselves primarily to betting on US sports and have voted for Pinnacle but not BetFair as to why they prefer Pinnacle.

1. premium charges (although i'm not in that category yet)
2. %commision

[Hareeba!]

Yes, I understand liquidity problems in some markets but then Betfair offers a whole lot more markets than Pinnacle does.

Yep, I also understand premium charges can wreck it for you at Betfair and that's a very valid point

But as for commission. though it might seem relatively high, you have to measure your NET odds against the opposition's which includes their vig which on the whole tends to be very similiar when compared with Pinnacle. However that will vary between customers due to their commission discount.

[jimbo747]

I primarily use betfair for liquidity even on obscure footy markets. Pinnacle I use mainly for AH markets / betdaq 2% comm
Betfair does occasionally have decent odds for baseball, but its often less than £500 and goes within minutes. I like pinnacle, in particular the quick withdrawals. The market range is sufficient without being extensive. For those doing horse betting with euro books, then betfair is an absolute must. I could probably get away with not having pinnacle (albeit less profitably) but not having a BF account would be extremely difficult.

IMO, any serious bettor, regardless of sport needs both. And poss betdaq for 2% AH. And an asian book like SBO, 188 etc to get the best odds.

[tommygun]

IMHO you could just use Betfair if you are a serious bettor.

[jimbo747]

I disagree. On favourites, you can often get better odds at other books. Thats not even including potential premium tax.

[loyd]

with Pinnacle you can buy points on NFL, you cannot do that with Betfair;

[lukahh]

Pinnacle's biggest problem is, i'd say, short range of markets. there are several bets you simply can't make there, yet people want to make them (score, scorer, corner, bookings, penalties and whatnot).

For example, see today's Real - Milan game: there are several tens of markets with 100s betting options on Betfair. On pinny, there's only major ones - hcp, o/u, line, etc.

Nevertheless, most of action is on the major markets. betfair matched amount for ml is 1+ mio atm, and 200k for o/u 2.5. all other markets, betfair matched amount is a few thousands, pointing to obscurity of supplementary markets.

based on the above, i'd say having pinny is generally enough except for more demanding bettor.

[Stefan]

Pinnacle offers in the main markets often better odds than Betfair, especially when you have to pay 5% fee. But Befair has more markets and the possibility to place lay bets. My own experience in soccer bets is, that you get better odds for matches with even odds at Pinnacle or asian bookies like SBOBET or 188BET. Are the odds far away from even then Betfair might be better.

[Ganesh]

Betfair has always the better odds but the comission of 5% is the negative point.

[HeeeHAWWWW]

The best of pinnacle+sbo+ibc pretty much always has better odds than betfair on major markets (after commission). Then there's premium tax.....

[Hareeba!]

I primarily use betfair for liquidity even on obscure footy markets. Pinnacle I use mainly for AH markets / betdaq 2% comm
Betfair does occasionally have decent odds for baseball, but its often less than £500 and goes within minutes. I like pinnacle, in particular the quick withdrawals. The market range is sufficient without being extensive. For those doing horse betting with euro books, then betfair is an absolute must. I could probably get away with not having pinnacle (albeit less profitably) but not having a BF account would be extremely difficult.

IMO, any serious bettor, regardless of sport needs both. And poss betdaq for 2% AH. And an asian book like SBO, 188 etc to get the best odds.

I would have thought you'd be able to do at least as well on AH markets with BF. And more leagues offered?
Not sure why you mention quick withdrawals for Pinnacle when both are excellent, at least in my experience?

[Hareeba!]

with Pinnacle you can buy points on NFL, you cannot do that with Betfair;

that's true
BF isn't so good for US sports and that's why I asked for responses from those who don't predominantly play them

[Hareeba!]

Pinnacle offers in the main markets often better odds than Betfair, especially when you have to pay 5% fee. But Befair has more markets and the possibility to place lay bets. My own experience in soccer bets is, that you get better odds for matches with even odds at Pinnacle or asian bookies like SBOBET or 188BET. Are the odds far away from even then Betfair might be better.

but with BF you can ask for a price and if there's time you will very often get matched at better than Pinnacle is offering (even allowing for commission)
you can't do that at Pinnacle

[Hareeba!]

The best of pinnacle+sbo+ibc pretty much always has better odds than betfair on major markets (after commission). Then there's premium tax.....

do you pay premium charges at Betfair?

[Hareeba!]

Betfair has liquidity problems at some markets (european basketball, handball, volleyball etc.)

it will be better if you use both

Certainly liquidity is an issue everywhere with lower profile sports/leagues but does Pinnacle even offer markets on many of those?

[Hareeba!]

IMHO you could just use Betfair if you are a serious bettor.

you could but you'd be missing out on a lot

[johnster]

if you ever paid premium charge by greedy betfair clowns no way you gonna vote for them

for losers betfair is ofcourse better more markets to kill bankroll faster

[jimbo747]

I would have thought you'd be able to do at least as well on AH markets with BF. And more leagues offered?
Not sure why you mention quick withdrawals for Pinnacle when both are excellent, at least in my experience?

My fault, didn't mean to make my post make it seem like betfair were slow in their payouts. Far from it.

AH for at least the major markets are better at betdaq than bf imo, particularly +/- 0.5 as liquidity shared with 1x2. Smaller markets don't usually fill until closer to KO.
12bet/mansion etc usually at least as good if not better than BF after comm on one side of an AH market, and they have even more obscure markets than BF - just a shame that their CS completely sucks. sbo a bit better in this regard.

[Hareeba!]

My fault, didn't mean to make my post make it seem like betfair were slow in their payouts. Far from it.

AH for at least the major markets are better at betdaq than bf imo, particularly +/- 0.5 as liquidity shared with 1x2. Smaller markets don't usually fill until closer to KO.
12bet/mansion etc usually at least as good if not better than BF after comm on one side of an AH market, and they have even more obscure markets than BF - just a shame that their CS completely sucks. sbo a bit better in this regard.

and an even bigger shame that they limit me to $25 so I no longer use them and play at SBO and 188 which are much on par at least for AH and totals

[Hareeba!]

if you ever paid premium charge by greedy betfair clowns no way you gonna vote for them

for losers betfair is ofcourse better more markets to kill bankroll faster

so you are one of the unfortunates who've been hit with the premium charge I take it?

I've been playing on the plus side at Betfair for almost 10 years and fortunately haven't had the dreaded premium charge applied yet. I suspect that would change things around totally.

But for the vast majority of their customers doesn't Betfair really have more to offer than Pinnacle?

[odysseus]

You can't lay horses at Pinnacle.
You know the wager limit and the odds at Pin whereas liquidity can be a problem at the best odds offered at BF.
BF 5% comm where as Pin juice is usually less

[Teddy_KGB]

Live betting is a joke at Pinnacle..."danger zone" in soccer, and in tennis, they offer odds only at changeovers.

[Hareeba!]

You can't lay horses at Pinnacle.
You know the wager limit and the odds at Pin whereas liquidity can be a problem at the best odds offered at BF.
BF 5% comm where as Pin juice is usually less

BF comm is usually lower than 5% too

I suspect that not enough punters have yet learned how to really make the most of exchanges in that they simply look at the odds currently available to back their choice.

If you are leaving it to the death, then you probably have no other option but if you allow yourself plenty of time and are able to monitor the position, exchange markets become more mature and closer to 100% so you will very often be able to obtain a reasonable margin in excess of say Pinnacle's odds if you put in an offer on the exchange.

[Sawyer]

Depends on your betting activity. If you make scalping, trading then Betfair is must. If you like to place bets, Pinnacle is the way because Premium Charge sucks..

[Hareeba!]

Depends on your betting activity. If you make scalping, trading then Betfair is must. If you like to place bets, Pinnacle is the way because Premium Charge sucks..

yes, agreed premium charges are a killer but very few punters have to pay them

I doubt that more than one maybe of the posters who have cast any votes for Pinnacle ahead of Betfair are affected by premium charges

Until they hit you with those Betfair remains a better option imho than Pinnacle if you had to make a choice.

[Stumpage]

Pinnacle, and only because of the Premium Charge that a few have mentioned ahead of me as I'm literally right on the cusp of the 20% surcharge. Mind you, Pinnacle accessibility has been very dodgy for me the last month, so I'm starting to sour on them.....

[Ruifgalmeida]

Premium charge is not a problem for me(I am still far away) I prefer Pinnacle -better prices, betfair it is only good on big undergogs and going against the market.

[lukahh]

There is one significant difference in treating high volume players from pinny and betfair: @ betfair, they constantly get better and better deal while @ pinny, they have about the same perks as next-door 5$ bettor.

[Pareto]

I put Betfair as nr 1 and Pinnacle as nr 2. But this is only because I am not paying premium charge.

Right now I am at 28% total charges, and if that number should go under 20%, then Betfair is really not an option for me anymore.

[aggieshawn]

betfair -premium charges? I am down to 4% commission now.

[Stefan]

Pinnacle, and only because of the Premium Charge that a few have mentioned ahead of me as I'm literally right on the cusp of the 20% surcharge. Mind you, Pinnacle accessibility has been very dodgy for me the last month, so I'm starting to sour on them.....

I had the same bad experience with the accessibility of Pinnacle in the last week. Yesterday I had four or five times for a few minutes no access to the Pinnacle website. Therefore I had to place my bets somewhere else.

[coutman]

i like ''live in play'' markets..
so betfair for me..

[loyd]

and an even bigger shame that they limit me to $25 so I no longer use them and play at SBO and 188 which are much on par at least for AH and totals

did Pinnacle limit you? i think you are the first one who got limited by them.