BWIN closed my account without a reason

Dr.Gonzo · 08-28-10, 08:26 AM

Fill out a complaint with sbr

Salihzzz · 08-28-10, 08:50 AM

Thanks for the reply but how do I do that?

AceKingHigh · 08-28-10, 09:34 AM

How much you won?

acarmelo1 · 08-28-10, 09:35 AM

bwin sucks

Salih · 08-28-10, 11:02 AM

I had around 260 euro on my account, while I made a deposit of 25 euro.

I made a withdrawal of 200 euro and that is when they just blocked my account.

Salihzzz · 08-29-10, 10:41 AM

So where do I fill in the complaint? And what else is there I can do? This is an outrage

Toit · 08-29-10, 11:10 AM

Originally posted by Salihzzz

So where do I fill in the complaint? And what else is there I can do? This is an outrage

Google is your friend.

http://www.sportsbookreview.com/Sportsbook+Complaint.aspx

Ganesh · 08-29-10, 05:00 PM

I dint understabd why this bookie has this kind of behaviors.

Salihzzz · 08-29-10, 08:53 PM

Originally posted by Toit

Google is your friend.

http://www.sportsbookreview.com/Spor...Complaint.aspx

Thank you

sq764 · 08-29-10, 11:11 PM

i would flip the fuk out on them, thats what you need to do

Santo · 08-30-10, 05:06 AM

So they do have a reason, you're just disputing whether it's valid.

These have tended to be solved pretty amicably in the past, bWin have worked with SBR.

linedrivr · 08-30-10, 12:57 PM

Tell them you don't want to get JJ "The Players Advocate" after their asses but you will if you have to. Start bustin some balls.

Salihzzz · 08-30-10, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by Santo

So they do have a reason, you're just disputing whether it's valid.

These have tended to be solved pretty amicably in the past, bWin have worked with SBR.

Their reason is basicly that I filled in wrong personal information upon registration. I don't think I did but everybody makes mistakes so you never know. When I ask them what's wrong they refuse to tell me though. I tell them I can prove that I am who I say I am but they ignore it. What the hell do these people want?

Originally posted by linedrivr

Tell them you don't want to get JJ "The Players Advocate" after their asses but you will if you have to. Start bustin some balls.

Who's JJ?

peterd78 · 09-01-10, 11:04 AM

it sounds like there is something missing here, they obviously don't believe you. If you did use a payment method with a diffent name than on the account then they have to investigate. I worked in fraud for a big european bookmaker for a few years and so I know that all withdrawals are subject to fraud checks, it is not possible to do a check straight away on all deposits because it would take too long and you would have to prevent new registrants from depositing which would just piss them off. The best thing you can do is be honest with them and be patient, BWIN are a reputable bookmaker and I can't imagine they're tring to scam you so I'd recommend giving them a call and arranging to send ID etc. to them to prove you genuine. They can close any accounts they want but If all you say is true and you can prove it then they can't keep the funds in your account.

Toit · 09-01-10, 11:17 AM

I seem to remember a topic here with some people having trouble at Bwin because of their date of birth being displayed the wrong way.

scott235 · 09-01-10, 04:16 PM

[quote=Salihzzz;6141183]Their reason is basicly that I filled in wrong personal information upon registration. I don't think I did but everybody makes mistakes so you never know. When I ask them what's wrong they refuse to tell me though. I tell them I can prove that I am who I say I am but they ignore it. What the hell do these people want?

Did you apply for a job there? Did they extend you a line of credit? Did you not post up cash for the privilege of playing at their site. Perhaps they are your banker?

Are you getting the drift..........

So by their reasoning if you change your phone number or move it is a reason to deny payment? Why don't they just confiscate your whole balance- your obviously a terrorist or a drug dealer. (sarcasm)

The most you should show them is the copy of the ** or ** dox including the store printout from the deposit. Nothing else. (And I'd be very pissed if I had to do this).

I hope you didn't deposit by cc.

Don't give in, you have done absolutely nothing wrong.

Salihzzz · 09-02-10, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by peterd78

it sounds like there is something missing here, they obviously don't believe you. If you did use a payment method with a diffent name than on the account then they have to investigate. I worked in fraud for a big european bookmaker for a few years and so I know that all withdrawals are subject to fraud checks, it is not possible to do a check straight away on all deposits because it would take too long and you would have to prevent new registrants from depositing which would just piss them off. The best thing you can do is be honest with them and be patient, BWIN are a reputable bookmaker and I can't imagine they're tring to scam you so I'd recommend giving them a call and arranging to send ID etc. to them to prove you genuine. They can close any accounts they want but If all you say is true and you can prove it then they can't keep the funds in your account.

Everything I said is absolutely true. The only mistake I perhaps made was trying to desposit the money on my brother's bank account (he has an account on bwin too but he never deposited any money on it). I simply did this because I owe him some money and I geniuinly thought this wouldn't be a big deal. I've emailed them my own personal bank details now but they still haven't deposited the money.

Did you apply for a job there? Did they extend you a line of credit? Did you not post up cash for the privilege of playing at their site. Perhaps they are your banker?

Are you getting the drift..........

So by their reasoning if you change your phone number or move it is a reason to deny payment? Why don't they just confiscate your whole balance- your obviously a terrorist or a drug dealer. (sarcasm)

The most you should show them is the copy of the ** or ** dox including the store printout from the deposit. Nothing else. (And I'd be very pissed if I had to do this).

I hope you didn't deposit by cc.

Don't give in, you have done absolutely nothing wrong.

Excuse my ignorance but what's a ** or **?

And yes you are absolutely spot on. If I did something wrong and they caught me cheating (whatever that would be) then I'd accept it. But I didn't do anything wrong (unless depositing money on my bro's account is illegal but then they shouldn't give you the option to deposit money on another account and ask for the bank account holder's name).

I'm emailing them now. I'll keep you guys updated.

AimingHigh · 09-02-10, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by Salihzzz

Everything I said is absolutely true. The only mistake I perhaps made was trying to desposit the money on my brother's bank account (he has an account on bwin too but he never deposited any money on it). I simply did this because I owe him some money and I geniuinly thought this wouldn't be a big deal. I've emailed them my own personal bank details now but they still haven't deposited the money.

... But I didn't do anything wrong (unless depositing money on my bro's account is illegal but then they shouldn't give you the option to deposit money on another account and ask for the bank account holder's name).

Bingo. I'm quite surprised you wouldn't think that depositing from someone else's bank account, when that someone else has an account with BWin, would be a problem. Seems people often do crap like this with BWin in particular.

If you owed him money, why would he be paying for your deposit?

Your "illegality" argument doesn't hold. They ask for the account holder because it may be presented differently, not because it's permissible for it to be a different person. Eg, you register with them as "Mr John Smith" but your bank account has you registered as "Mr J A Smith." Still the same person, but good reason for them to ask for the account holder's name.

Salihzzz · 09-02-10, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by AimingHigh

Bingo. I'm quite surprised you wouldn't think that depositing from someone else's bank account, when that someone else has an account with BWin, would be a problem. Seems people often do crap like this with BWin in particular.

If you owed him money, why would he be paying for your deposit?

Your "illegality" argument doesn't hold. They ask for the account holder because it may be presented differently, not because it's permissible for it to be a different person. Eg, you register with them as "Mr John Smith" but your bank account has you registered as "Mr J A Smith." Still the same person, but good reason for them to ask for the account holder's name.

You misunderstood, I deposited the money on BWIN using a pay safe card but when I wanted to withdraw the money I used my bother's bank account becaise I owe him money and I wouldn't get my salary in a while. If that is such a big deal then it should be listed clearly there that it isn't allowed. I've given them my own bank details now.

But why do they care what I do with my money? I've sent them my id already, which proves this is me. I've given them my own bank details now which also proves that this is me. What more can I do?

AimingHigh · 09-02-10, 12:44 PM

So you deposited from Paysafe, and tried to withdraw to someone else's bank account. Your saying "deposit on" confused me.

They care for at least 3 reasons, off the top of my head: (1) anti-money laundering legislation, (2) fraud issues, and (3) because the other person into whose account you tried to withdraw already has an account with them. Re the fraud concern, assume they had made the withdrawal - it's then open to the Bwin account owner to come along and scream "fraud", saying some hacker has stolen their money, and that BWin shouldn't have allowed it, and owes them the money.

For those and probably lots of other reasons, you should only deposit from your own bank account / e-wallet, and only withdraw back to your own bank account / e-wallet. Common sense, but don't give books a reason to take your money.

Fill out the SBR complaint form in any event. BWin should work with them and allow a withdrawal to your own bank account, but don't expect to keep your sportsbook account.

peterd78 · 09-02-10, 01:35 PM

The biggest fraud issue for bookmakers is people depositing with a stolen credit card and then withdrawing to a clean card. If this happens the bookmaker loses that money. The person who's card is stolen gets their money back and the bank takes the money back from the bookmaker (called a **********). That is why bookies always want you to withdraw funds in the way you deposited them, if you withdraw to a payment method with a different name than you deposited it sets off alarm bells and they can't allow that money to go back to the bank in case they get hit with a **********. If you just tell them what you have told us you will be able to sort it out quite quickly, they may want some documentation from your brother to prove he knows you and owns that bank account. Honesty is the best policy, they are not trying to rip you off, they just have to cover themselves.

Salihzzz · 09-02-10, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by AimingHigh

So you deposited from Paysafe, and tried to withdraw to someone else's bank account. Your saying "deposit on" confused me.

They care for at least 3 reasons, off the top of my head: (1) anti-money laundering legislation, (2) fraud issues, and (3) because the other person into whose account you tried to withdraw already has an account with them. Re the fraud concern, assume they had made the withdrawal - it's then open to the Bwin account owner to come along and scream "fraud", saying some hacker has stolen their money, and that BWin shouldn't have allowed it, and owes them the money.

For those and probably lots of other reasons, you should only deposit from your own bank account / e-wallet, and only withdraw back to your own bank account / e-wallet. Common sense, but don't give books a reason to take your money.

Fill out the SBR complaint form in any event. BWin should work with them and allow a withdrawal to your own bank account, but don't expect to keep your sportsbook account.

Ok thank you for the explanation because this is the first time I use an online bookie and I'm not used to it. I still think they should have first contacted me or atleast told me what the dispute was about (if it is about that because I still haven't heard the reason).

I filled in a complaint but I haven't heard anything from SBR yet. Maybe because I wasn't sure what to fill in under "Account #:" and I just filled in my username I used on BWIN?

I really hope they give my money back because I really need it.

Salihzzz · 09-02-10, 02:49 PM

Good news guys! I just received an email from them that they'll deposit the money on my bank account! I still don't know the reason they closed my account but I don't even care now, I'm just happy to have my money back because as I said: I really need it.

Thank you all for the comments and the good advice.

scott235 · 09-02-10, 06:07 PM

Originally posted by peterd78

The biggest fraud issue for bookmakers is people depositing with a stolen credit card and then withdrawing to a clean card. If this happens the bookmaker loses that money. The person who's card is stolen gets their money back and the bank takes the money back from the bookmaker (called a **********). That is why bookies always want you to withdraw funds in the way you deposited them, if you withdraw to a payment method with a different name than you deposited it sets off alarm bells and they can't allow that money to go back to the bank in case they get hit with a **********. If you just tell them what you have told us you will be able to sort it out quite quickly, they may want some documentation from your brother to prove he knows you and owns that bank account. Honesty is the best policy, they are not trying to rip you off, they just have to cover themselves.

Uh, yeah but- did you know that you can buy an airline ticket for yourself withsomeone elses cc in the post 911 era and not set off any alarms with TSA or the cc companies.

Just because one uses another persons cc for any reason is not enuff to assume fraud.

Why?

Most cc theft is reported within hours, a smaller but significant % within mere days, and only a few leak thru to the next billing period.

A 60 day hold on WD's is all the books need to assure a cc is not stolen, anything else is just a reason to slow pay or data mining which puts your identity security at risk.

You should be able to tell any book upfront that you are using someone elses card to deposit, and they should accept it with no problem at all with a reasonable hold.

The only person who has any right to bitch or insinuate that you are a criminal is the person whose cc you are using. Not a sportsbook.

lukahh · 09-03-10, 04:48 AM

there was a theard which put bwin in bad light as they claimed a player registered with wrong birthdate, but player countered with the fact that he received birthday bonus on correct date... so i guess registering at bwin requires screenshot-ing.

pistachio · 09-03-10, 05:43 AM

I've never had any problems with BWin, but they do seem to crop up under alot of complaints. Surprising for a book with such a big financial background.

Santo · 09-03-10, 06:34 AM

Originally posted by scott235

Uh, yeah but- did you know that you can buy an airline ticket for yourself withsomeone elses cc in the post 911 era and not set off any alarms with TSA or the cc companies.

Just because one uses another persons cc for any reason is not enuff to assume fraud.

.

The big difference is in the possibility to launder funds...

scott235 · 09-03-10, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by Santo

The big difference is in the possibility to launder funds...

...but that would be on the player, not the sportsbook. as for the bank issue, people use banks to launder money, and thus the people who launder money thru different banks are charged with money laundering, not the banks.

People transfer money to different bank accounts that are not theirs all the time. It's not an unusual occurence at all in a global economy. Maybe salihzz should have noted that the wire was to an account that was not his, but he really has done nothing wrong or suspicious at all.

AimingHigh · 09-03-10, 01:23 PM

Originally posted by scott235

...People transfer money to different bank accounts that are not theirs all the time. It's not an unusual occurence at all in a global economy. Maybe salihzz should have noted that the wire was to an account that was not his, but he really has done nothing wrong or suspicious at all.

Not sure what jurisdiction you're in, but your statement doesn't describe the position in any of the main European jurisdictions. Perhaps in unregulated Costa Rica, but not in countries that have strict anti-money laundering legislation.

scott235 · 09-04-10, 09:15 AM

You may be right and I may be wrong, however what bothers me is the "your guilty until proven innocent" posture these books take when it involves a payout. If this was a deposit, the player could have deposited with three different cc's and wired from 2 different bank accounts that were not his and the book would have looked the other way.

peterd78 · 09-04-10, 09:29 AM

that's just the way most bookmakers do it, right or wrong, the company i worked for lost about €250,000 on fraud in 2008 so they have to protect themselves, any bookmaker who allows deposits and witrhdrawals to diferent accounts is taking a big risk beecause they take the hit if it goes wrong, the credit card copany and the card owner are protected.

The main reason that BWIN made an issue of this was because he lied, he knew damn well he used a different name but didn't admit it (not even on this forum until I said something was missing from his story) so they had to check it out, and why did he not admit it if he didn't think he was doing something wrong, I heard this story a million times when I worked in fraud, if he had just told them the truth it would have been cleared up quickly.

peterd78 · 09-04-10, 09:34 AM

like I said in an earlier post it is just not feasible to check every deposit because of the time involved and the delay in players deposits being approved. The bookies let those deposits straight through to keep customers happy that they can bet straight away, some people are never happy though.

scott235 · 09-04-10, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by peterd78

that's just the way most bookmakers do it, right or wrong, the company i worked for lost about €250,000 on fraud in 2008 so they have to protect themselves, any bookmaker who allows deposits and witrhdrawals to diferent accounts is taking a big risk beecause they take the hit if it goes wrong, the credit card copany and the card owner are protected.

The main reason that BWIN made an issue of this was because he lied, he knew damn well he used a different name but didn't admit it (not even on this forum until I said something was missing from his story) so they had to check it out, and why did he not admit it if he didn't think he was doing something wrong, I heard this story a million times when I worked in fraud, if he had just told them the truth it would have been cleared up quickly.

He offered to give any and all info and dox, including his brother's, and you just called him a liar. The fact is, it is a post upfront business for the player, and all he wanted was the money he fairly won. Let's be clear, this player has not tried to steal a penny.

Salihzzz · 09-04-10, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by peterd78

that's just the way most bookmakers do it, right or wrong, the company i worked for lost about €250,000 on fraud in 2008 so they have to protect themselves, any bookmaker who allows deposits and witrhdrawals to diferent accounts is taking a big risk beecause they take the hit if it goes wrong, the credit card copany and the card owner are protected.

The main reason that BWIN made an issue of this was because he lied, he knew damn well he used a different name but didn't admit it (not even on this forum until I said something was missing from his story) so they had to check it out, and why did he not admit it if he didn't think he was doing something wrong, I heard this story a million times when I worked in fraud, if he had just told them the truth it would have been cleared up quickly.

What? The reason I didn't mention it when I started the thread is because when they closed my account and I emailed them with the question "why" they answered that I filled in wrong information upon registration. They didn't mention anything about withdrawing money to someone else's bank account. And no, I used my real name and scanned them my id. Do you really think they would have given me my money back if I used some random name? And what would I gain from it anyway?

And I honestly didn't know you're not allowed to withdraw money to someone else's account. I do it all the time with poker: I withdraw money to my brother's account when I owe him some money and I have never had a problem with it.

Anyway I'm grateful to BWIN for giving me my money back (or atleast will give me my money back if they keep their word). I only have two concerns:

- They should have immediatly told me what the problem was and maybe we could have resolved it without them closing my account and me waiting a week to get some clarification.
- If they're really concerned about money laundring then they should take some precautions when you register and if there is something wrong they shouldn't allow you to deposit. Atleast that's how I think things work in a normal world. When you start working for a company, you wont hear your boss tell you "oh but you filled in a wrong date of birth when you arrived here so I'm not paying you for the month you just worked".