Is expekt cheating?

bigloser · 12-18-07, 03:07 PM

Expekt are correct. You are wrong.

Some books will look at time of knockout, some will just take the round.

tribet · 12-18-07, 03:10 PM

Sorry but this is how they settle round bets,the 0.5 round is used to effectively indicate the end of round 8 and not any point within the 8th round.They are correct.

sinn · 12-18-07, 03:14 PM

The rules Expekt not describe this situation.

why not a victory for the logical end of round?

bigloser · 12-18-07, 03:15 PM

What is there to explain?

tribet · 12-18-07, 03:20 PM

It's how they always settle these bets.

vanman · 12-18-07, 03:24 PM

Expekt are correct in their grading of this wager.

punchmaster · 12-18-07, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by sinn

Hi,

I've placed a bet at Expekt on Boxing (Jorge Linares - Gamaliel Diaz,
count of rounds > 7.5).

This fight has ended at 8th round. According to Yahoo sports:
"Dec. 15 -- Jorge Lineres records an eighth-round knockout
over Gamaliel Diaz in Cancun, Mexico to retain the WBC
featherweight title"
(http://sports.yahoo.com/box/leaguepa...=st&type=lgns).

Expekt treated my bid as "Lost". Here is an answer to my request from
their support:
"It was 7 rounds in total, because in 8th round Jorge Lineres has won a
minute before end of round. 8th round was not finished, that's why we
do not count it".

As for me, it is pure cheating, because Expekt insists that knock-out
is not a finish of the fight and of the round accordingly.

Expekt's Rules and Terms of Service say nothing about this case.

A question to the community: What should I do? How can i affect them?
Did someone was iin similar situation?

I believe that bet reads greater than 7.5 rounds or another words, you bet the fight to go over 7.5 rounds and if that's the case , they need to pay, no questions or controversy. 7.5 rounds means the 1:30 second mark of the 8th round. Since the fight ended at 2:02 of round 8 , the outcome is clear. If you bet the over and Expect calls it a loss.... unless it's a true mistake on their part- they suck ass. If you actually be under 7.5 rounds, they are correct. Good luck. Some of the posts on here such as "the 0.5 round is used to effectively indicate the end of round 8 and not any point within the 8th round" are really pathetic.

sinn · 12-18-07, 03:41 PM

The problem is that expect believes that victory knockout is not the end of the Round.

tribet · 12-18-07, 03:51 PM

Originally posted by punchmaster

I believe that bet reads greater than 7.5 rounds or another words, you bet the fight to go over 7.5 rounds and if that's the case , they need to pay, no questions or controversy. 7.5 rounds means the 1:30 second mark of the 8th round. Since the fight ended at 2:02 of round 8 , the outcome is clear. If you bet the over and Expect calls it a loss.... unless it's a true mistake on their part- they suck ass. If you actually be under 7.5 rounds, they are correct. Good luck. Some of the posts on here such as "the 0.5 round is used to effectively indicate the end of round 8 and not any point within the 8th round" are really pathetic.

No offence but you obviously know nothing about how these bets are settled and probably know nothing at all generally,do you really think they settle at o/u 1.30 in a round you idiot.

vanman · 12-18-07, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by sinn

The problem is that expect believes that victory knockout is not the end of the Round.

No it is not the end of the round it is the end of the fight.So therefore only 7 rounds were completed,hence your bet is a loser.Bookmakers use the .5 so that a bet is either win or lose,they are taking out the push option,so when you take over 7.5,8 rounds must be completed for your bet to win.

Dark Horse · 12-18-07, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by vanman

No it is not the end of the round it is the end of the fight.So therefore only 7 rounds were completed,hence your bet is a loser.Bookmakers use the .5 so that a bet is either win or lose,they are taking out the push option,so when you take over 7.5,8 rounds must be completed for your bet to win.

You are correct. The half point is not a time indicator, but a divider between 7 and 8 rounds. Therefore 7.5 rounds is not the same as 7 rounds and 1:30 minutes.

tribet · 12-18-07, 04:16 PM

Thank you 2 more people who are not clueless like punchmaster is.

Pareto · 12-18-07, 04:34 PM

"Bookmakers use the .5 so that a bet is either win or lose,they are taking out the push option,so when you take over 7.5,8 rounds must be completed for your bet to win. "

I dont know Expects rules, but Pinnacle states the following under their boxing rules.

Each round is three minutes in duration; a half-round is defined as ninety seconds.

I therefore also thought that f.inst. O/U 7½ rounds meant 7 rounds and 90 seconds.

tribet · 12-18-07, 04:49 PM

US books have different rules which I have explained for the hard of
learning such as punchmaster who has gone remarkably quiet.

bigboydan · 12-18-07, 05:30 PM

Originally posted by tribet

US books have different rules which I have explained for the hard of
learning such as punchmaster who has gone remarkably quiet.

According to the SBR rules monitor,Matchbook just added a rule recently on the .05 round boxing rule recently. In fact that was the only rule change in roughly 5 months.

# Boxing matches may be posted using either a draw-included or no-draw format. If the former, and the fight ends in a draw, wagers on both fighters "to win" will be graded as losers, and wagers "to lose" as winners. If the latter, all wagers on either fighter will be cancelled and refunded.
# If the scheduled length of a fight is changed, all markets involving numbers of rounds (e.g., fight duration) will be cancelled and refunded.
# If a fight is rescheduled for a different date, all wagers stand so long as the fight takes place within thirty (30) days of the original date.
# A disqualification is graded as a KO for the opponent.
# For time of fight betting, a half round is defined as 90 seconds.

MrX · 12-18-07, 06:14 PM

So in terms of industry standards we have two major books (Pinny and Matchbook) who would have graded OP's bet as a win. Is that correct?

Jamie_UK · 12-18-07, 06:36 PM

Originally posted by tribet

US books have different rules which I have explained for the hard of
learning such as punchmaster who has gone remarkably quiet.

US books? and you call him thick.

punchmaster · 12-18-07, 09:59 PM

Originally posted by tribet

No offence but you obviously know nothing about how these bets are settled and probably know nothing at all generally,do you really think they settle at o/u 1.30 in a round you idiot.

Look you cycling homo, I've been betting boxing for over 2 years and have made more money in it than you will gambling in your lifetime. I bet over 7.5 rounds on that fight and got paid and unless Expect has different rules than 5 dimes and the Greek etc , the dude needs to get paid if he bet over 7.5 rounds, now enjoy that cycling seat up your ass while I collect my winning wagers.

punchmaster · 12-18-07, 10:01 PM

Originally posted by MrX

So in terms of industry standards we have two major books (Pinny and Matchbook) who would have graded OP's bet as a win. Is that correct?

No, not just two major books, unless you don't consider The Greek, 5 dimes, and sportsbook/sportsbetting.com major. 5dimes and sportsbook.com paid me for the exact same wager as the original poster.

Dark Horse · 12-18-07, 11:10 PM

Personal opinion doesn't really matter, since it is obvious, if only from the recent Matchbook rule change, that this is an area open to interpretation. So the only thing that matters here is what the Expekt rules say. I couldn't find them on their site.

Bill Dozer · 12-19-07, 12:04 AM

Originally posted by Dark Horse

Personal opinion doesn't really matter, since it is obvious, if only from the recent Matchbook rule change, that this is an area open to interpretation. So the only thing that matters here is what the Expekt rules say. I couldn't find them on their site.

Another good post summing it up from DH.

Expekt is pretty reasonable. I wouldn't be surprised if they paid or no-actioned it as payment for sharpening their rules.

Sinn,

If you send your account ID we can at least ask their thoughts on it.

tribet · 12-19-07, 02:30 AM

Originally posted by punchmaster

Look you cycling homo, I've been betting boxing for over 2 years and have made more money in it than you will gambling in your lifetime. I bet over 7.5 rounds on that fight and got paid and unless Expect has different rules than 5 dimes and the Greek etc , the dude needs to get paid if he bet over 7.5 rounds, now enjoy that cycling seat up your ass while I collect my winning wagers.

Well how can I possibly argue with such a well thought out and erudite post but you are still wrong you clown and I doubt you have a fraction of the wealth I have so that's a non starter.
Keep going with your $5 accumulators though.

sinn · 12-19-07, 04:01 AM

Originally posted by Bill Dozer

Sinn,

If you send your account ID we can at least ask their thoughts on it.

Ok my account ID sinbadexp

Respect to all of you guys

Thremp · 12-19-07, 04:59 AM

This should pretty clearly be paid if there is nothing contrary on their website.

Jamie_UK · 12-19-07, 11:08 AM

if you lot actually read the rules you might have a clue.

Number of completed rounds: If a fight is stopped before the completion of a round the previous round counts as the last completed round. E.g. If the match is stopped during the 9th round then there have only been 8 completed rounds. On a bet which says: Over/under 8.5 completed rounds, the result will be under 8.5.

sinn · 12-19-07, 01:36 PM

They quickly changed the rules to their benefit.
But versions of the website for other languages nothing has changed.

Bill Dozer · 12-19-07, 01:37 PM

Thank you Jamie for so graciously assisting.

Here is the link http://www.expekt.com/help.jsp?section=rules_rules

Spike Spiegel · 12-19-07, 01:40 PM

Jorge Linares - Gamaliel Diaz
WBC Featherweight Title

Int. Fights
Sun 16-12-2007 04:00

1 X 2
1.08 28.00 8.00

over/under
under 7.5 completed rounds - 1.75
over 7.5 completed rounds - 1.95

This is copied from events result section. So as long as the bet was defined as U/O 7.5 completed rounds I don´t understand why are you surprised that your bet is resulted as lost.

sinn · 12-19-07, 02:16 PM

The victory a knockout does not finish a round? or

The victory a knockout does not completed a round ?

In my opinion a victory a knockout this end of a round and a match.

Here the German version of rules:
Boxen
Maßgeblich für das Ergebnis ist die offizielle Entscheidung des Kampfrichters nach Punkten, technischem K.o., K.o. oder Disqualifizierung.
Für Wetten auf die Art des Gewinnes finden folgende Definitionen Anwendung:
"K.o." schließt T.K.o. (Technicher Knock-out) und Disqualifikation ein
"Decision" schließt "Technical Decision" ein
"Unentschieden" schließt "Technisches Unentschieden" ein
Wenn einer oder beide Boxer das geforderte Gewicht nicht erreichen, das für den angekündigten Bewerb angegeben wurde, so werden alle Wetten mit Quote 1,00 gewertet, egal, ob der Bewerb stattfindet oder nicht.

Russian and French versions the same.

Whether has sense to address in independent arbitration, for example IBAS when rules a post factum are changed?

Jamie_UK · 12-19-07, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by Bill Dozer

Thank you Jamie for so graciously assisting.

Here is the link http://www.expekt.com/help.jsp?section=rules_rules

No worries Bill, always happy to assist

Jamie_UK · 12-19-07, 02:29 PM

The victory a knockout does not finish a round? or

The victory a knockout does not completed a round ?

In my opinion a victory a knockout this end of a round and a match.

Thats not really true is it. A knockout would complete the match, but not the round, the round would only be completed with the bell.

punchmaster · 12-19-07, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by sinn

They quickly changed the rules to their benefit.
But versions of the website for other languages nothing has changed.

Sad if so. All the top boxing books have it the same , clear, way- 5dimes, Greek, Pinnacle, Bookmaker, sportsbetting. bet365. Expekt is mickey mouse for boxing.

MrX · 12-19-07, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by Spike Spiegel

This is copied from events result section. So as long as the bet was defined as U/O 7.5 completed rounds I don´t understand why are you surprised that your bet is resulted as lost.

sinn, does your bet ticket say over 7.5 "completed rounds"? If so, I'd have to side with expekt on this one. A knockout in the 8th round is clearly not a completed 8th round.

Bill Dozer · 12-19-07, 05:17 PM

Originally posted by punchmaster

Sad if so. All the top boxing books have it the same , clear, way- 5dimes, Greek, Pinnacle, Bookmaker, sportsbetting. bet365. Expekt is mickey mouse for boxing.

Here is their rules in English as of 11/8