BetUS Correlated Parlay mugging

[bubba]

justin, i apologize. bad reading comprehension on my part. very bad.


can u please list the parlay in question or at least let us know how bad the correlation was in this case?

[Justin7]

BetUS hasn't given me one. The player denied making any.

[Hareeba!]

BetUS hasn't given me one. The player denied making any.

what am I missing?

you started the thread referring to a CP "mugging"
so the player must have made some parlays?
he claims they're not correlated, so who's saying they are?
are you not able to give examples of the parlays so that we have some comprehension of the extent of correlation?

or is the issue not CPs at all but fraudulent collusion?

[bubba]

well the onus is clearly on betus to say what exactly was done wrong. i will stay clear from them until this issue is settled. are they connected to sportsbook.com?

[robmpink]

Sounds like another story from the past. Wonder if it is a sbr beard. They don't pay, they are stealing. Same vocab, most likely, same players.

[BigDaddy]

If a player bet Colts -3 parlayed with Colts ML -150, that has a 100% correlation. I would *reduce* the second leg of this.

Nearly anything else needs to be honored or prevented with software.

i had an A book up top do the opposite of what you suggested

even after weeks of grading winners and losers

this was years ago and i didn't pursue it becuase i knew i was in the wrong but seeing that statement i should have?

could you go back that far for a dispute justin?

they denied my last neteller payout and closed my account

i dont even have all the info but if they still had all my past wagers that would tell the story.

[Justin7]

what am I missing?

you started the thread referring to a CP "mugging"
so the player must have made some parlays?
he claims they're not correlated, so who's saying they are?
are you not able to give examples of the parlays so that we have some comprehension of the extent of correlation?

or is the issue not CPs at all but fraudulent collusion?

$6k gone. That is the issue. BetUS tries to justify the mugging, claiming the player made CPs. Player denies this.

BetUS has a better defense (which they haven't really pressed), stating several players were using the same ID, making similar bets. For whatever reason, they did not claim fraudulent collusion (although if they can prove the IP info and wagering patterns, they have a strong defense).

BetUS hasn't given any examples. Player says there weren't any CPs. I've asked for more info from both sides.

[Justin7]

Sounds like another story from the past. Wonder if it is a sbr beard. They don't pay, they are stealing. Same vocab, most likely, same players.

Probably not the same individuals, but the same type: long term winners.

[Justin7]

i had an A book up top do the opposite of what you suggested

even after weeks of grading winners and losers

this was years ago and i didn't pursue it becuase i knew i was in the wrong but seeing that statement i should have?

could you go back that far for a dispute justin?

they denied my last neteller payout and closed my account

i dont even have all the info but if they still had all my past wagers that would tell the story.

A book? How many years ago? And why didn't you pursue it?

Sure, fill out a complaint.

[BigDaddy]

not 100% sure but 3 years or less

it was a trivial amount under 2k and i knew what i was doing and was ahead of the game

all i could give you would be the book , my acct# and what type of wagers i placed i dont have any of the bets saved any longer but like i said if my wagers are still indeed in the system that would tell the story.

i actually called in after i noticed my neteller payout was not in my account and when i logged in to the book it had a message saying to do so and i was told i owed them because they went back and regraded all the bets and of course it put me in the red

but they were almost 100% correlated

[BigDaddy]

if i fill out the complaint can i be sure you handle it?

will what i said above be enough info?

or can i pm you the info and you look into it?

[robmpink]

Probably not the same individuals, but the same type: long term winners.

[Justin7]

if i fill out the complaint can i be sure you handle it?

will what i said above be enough info?

or can i pm you the info and you look into it?

Several mods handle complaints. I actually enjoy the more complex ones though, so I tend to get the harder ones (aka non generic slow-pay complaints).

No guarantees, but the more information you give, the better.

[joe blow]

if the books system takes the bet...pay the fukin bet

I agree..If the books system takes the action,they should have to live with it

[JerseyShop101]

Why does BetUs' software allow these parlays? It seems most books' software will not allow correlated parlays at all. And people talk about how good BetUS layout/software is, why don't they fix this, it seems it should be a priority? Or is it- they just want to take the free shot?

I wonder if they go out of their way to reimburse players correlated parlays that have lost in the past?

[JerseyShop101]

Justin7,

In your opinion, should parlays of RunLine and the same game total be allowed at all books?

[HedgeHog]

I know a few Books that allow RL/Totals parlays. The edge betting them, however, is smaller than you might think.

[Justin7]

Justin7,

In your opinion, should parlays of RunLine and the same game total be allowed at all books?

Should they be allowed? No opinion. If they take them, they have to honor them. Would I want to book them? No.

[betbetter]

i will wager 100k (book at matchbook) on the comeback at +100 or better, if you prefer i will bet a correlated parlay of no glitch and you're a shill

I've no problem with somebody taking a shot, don't whine when you get nailed. Take your lumps like a man.
Sticks and stones.

[trixtrix]

the only people who think correlated parlay as a broad term is "taking a shot" on the books are morons who are incapable of understanding 5th grade math, this conclusion can be also be ironically reached by reading the shill's postings

[forsberg21]

BetUS is such BS. It's stories like this that makes me wish the industry was regulated properly.

[HedgeHog]

the only people who think correlated parlay as a broad term is "taking a shot" on the books are morons who are incapable of understanding 5th grade math, this conclusion can be also be ironically reached by reading the shill's postings

Agree 100%. Anyone who has a made a same-game parlay is "guilty" of making a correlated bet. So the ones that equate this type of betting to cheating, should take a long look in the mirror. All books welcome same game pars to some degree of correlation.

[ByeShea]

$6k gone. That is the issue. BetUS tries to justify the mugging, claiming the player made CPs. Player denies this.

BetUS has a better defense (which they haven't really pressed), stating several players were using the same ID, making similar bets. For whatever reason, they did not claim fraudulent collusion (although if they can prove the IP info and wagering patterns, they have a strong defense).

BetUS hasn't given any examples. Player says there weren't any CPs. I've asked for more info from both sides.

Okay we have a dispute, but is there a BetUS pattern of "mugging" players? I'm not aware of one, not like this.

And in this case, it seems to hinge on a he said/she said angle.

I think by adopting a "player is always right" position we will dilute the effectiveness of when the player is indisputably in the right.

Without any recent pattern of BetUS not honoring bets (correlated parlays notwithstanding) - I am not weeping over that player's disputed paper loss. Too many true screwings to waste on one that, without any new twists, won't go anywhere.

And for the record, I'd believe that a player who pulls complicated in-game parlays is more likely to try and game the system with multiple handles or whatever BetUS's defense is.

Do the due diligence, then make fewer and simpler bets to maximize profit.

Craps tables make ALL their money on side bets ... wonder what the margin is on parlays.

[ByeShea]

BetUS is such BS. It's stories like this that makes me wish the industry was regulated properly.

Regulate crime, why not? I'm pretty sure there's already been a precedence set somewhere.

[HedgeHog]

FWIW, BetUs does indeed have a checkered past with many disputes--typically involving bonuses. They are a shady Book at best, so I'll give the player the benefit of the doubt until the actual facts come out.

[Justin7]

if i fill out the complaint can i be sure you handle it?

will what i said above be enough info?

or can i pm you the info and you look into it?

Fill out a complaint.

[ByeShea]

FWIW, BetUs does indeed have a checkered past with many disputes--typically involving bonuses. They are a shady Book at best, so I'll give the player the benefit of the doubt until the actual facts come out.

Their background is checkered, no doubt, but that's why I put in "recently".

Frankly, the "mugging" accusation is misleading. I'm inclined to believe BetUS. In betting and in life: look for patterns, spot trends - don't waste energy on "outliers".

[BrianLaverty]

I really am unsure of correlated parlays.


I can see this being one:

USC -45/Over 48 parlays like when they played Washington State a few years ago..

But what about this:

Cardinals ML/Over 6.5? While this is correlated somewhat... I've never had a book complain about doing that at all and pretty much every book takes them.

What about Cubs +1.5/Under 6.5? Correlated more then the parlay... but is it really that much correlated?

[Justin7]

Their background is checkered, no doubt, but that's why I put in "recently".

Frankly, the "mugging" accusation is misleading. I'm inclined to believe BetUS. In betting and in life: look for patterns, spot trends - don't waste energy on "outliers".

BetUS first says the player made CPs. 2 days, no examples. The player denies there were any CPs. BetUS later says that, incidentally, the player was multi-accounting (but this isn't important enough to raise in the first few exchanges). BetUS doesn't rely on this to make decisions on the player account either. Why was the player mugged? I can only guess based on what I'm told. BetUS might not tell more though. "As far as we're concerned, we've handled this fairly, and this issue is closed."

If you take a bet, and revoke the winnings months later, you mugged the player.

To help clarify: how many complaints have I seen with a book rated B- or higher that voided winnings more than 1 day after a bet was taken (and that for a flagrant past-post): 0.

I don't control ratings for books, although I think my opinion is considered. Voiding CPs months or even weeks after the event is horse-shit, and reflective of a D- book, regardless of what rules you have on point.

If a book doesn't want CPs, it should control this with its software. If it takes the bet, and later voids this (especially en-masse), they are free-rolling players, and deserve to be ridiculed.

[Santo]

I think by adopting a "player is always right" position we will dilute the effectiveness of when the player is indisputably in the right.

I agree with this, and it seemed to me until Justin7's recent post that the thread start was overly harsh, and something that wouldn't happen/stand with most books. However if they say the issue is closed, I guess trying to stir up forum controversy was the only route available to get the facts...

That said I am a little concerned about the recent SIA (?) case witht he soccer prop where forum controversy was used to get a book to settle in contravention of their rules (and in favor of an "industry standard") -- that is taking 'forum power' a bit too far in my opinion. Books often have different rules.

Regulate crime, why not? I'm pretty sure there's already been a precedence set somewhere.

It's only crime in America (and a few other places) - and even then only for the unlicensed operator. In the majority of the world it is legal, and books are regulated. There's really no reason (except profit/greed) that these books shouldn't be subject to some form of regulation, just not US.

[Hareeba!]

If a book doesn't want CPs, it should control this with its software. If it takes the bet, and later voids this (especially en-masse), they are free-rolling players, and deserve to be ridiculed.

they deserve more than ridicule
they just don't deserve your business

[jackkkk2009]

Betus is doing what sportsbook.com group is. They both have a rule against corralted parlays..

[JerseyShop101]

I really am unsure of correlated parlays.


I can see this being one:

USC -45/Over 48 parlays like when they played Washington State a few years ago..

But what about this:

Cardinals ML/Over 6.5? While this is correlated somewhat... I've never had a book complain about doing that at all and pretty much every book takes them.

What about Cubs +1.5/Under 6.5? Correlated more then the parlay... but is it really that much correlated?

The problem is, some of the scam books will never tell us at what point or at what line- is considered correlated, and to them it doesn't matter that their software accepted these wagers. It only seems that if your winning with the CPs, then its a problem. But if your losing with the CP's, then its allowed. Freeroll heaven for these books.

We never hear about any books, coming out and saying they are reimbursing players for their CPs that lost because they shouldn't of been accepted in the first place.

Your USC example above is a good most obvious CP.

What really sucks is the not so obvious.
A Fav is -14 and the total is 42.5? Will BetUS software allow it or I should really ask will BetUS honor it if it does? What if the total is 42, 41, 40, 39, etc????

Will books just say the 33% or 3-1 rule for a parlay being correlated? The books should tell us ESPECIALLY before football season, at what lines are these parlays in the same game (dog/under) not allowed. They never tell us, they just like to keep it vague.

Will BetUS put it in their rules exactly what consitutes an illegal correlated parlay that they will not allow? Or do they want the flexibility to keep the losing cp wagers, and confiscate the winning CP winnings?

[Hareeba!]

Betus is doing what sportsbook.com group is. They both have a rule against corralted parlays..

all books do but this case goes well beyond that issue
it's theft

[JerseyShop101]

Betus is doing what sportsbook.com group is. They both have a rule against corralted parlays..

Bookmaker's software allowed parlays containing the team for M/L, parlayed with the same team R/L, team total 1st 5 with team total for the game etc, etc, last year.
Of course this is obvious- the CP's should never of been allowed, but Bookmaker still paid the player anyway, that it was an error in their software that allowed this. If they book it- they will pay it. But then again thats Bookmaker.