Pinnacle issue, they scammed me!

**Optional** · 09-21-19, 07:10 AM

Their rules seem pretty clear on this;

Treatment for overtime

Any wager on the game or the 2nd half will include any overtime that may occur.
Any wager on the 4th quarter does not include any overtime that may occur.

Can you spot anything in their rules to support your claim that this type of overtime does not fit the definition?

Pinnacle betting rules | Betting rules for all sports & events

https://www.pinnacle.com/en/future/betting-rules#Basketball

Find out the betting rules for all sports and events offered at Pinnacle.

**PD77** · 09-21-19, 07:29 AM

Welcome to the forum.

**opedja95** · 09-21-19, 07:30 AM

OK, so you tell me that they have settled my bet regularly?

I played on moneyline on away team to win, and they have won in regular time, I did not played for away team to qualify for the next round??

How is that legit than???

Thanks PD!

**Optional** · 09-21-19, 07:56 AM

Originally posted by opedja95

OK, so you tell me that they have settled my bet regularly?

I played on moneyline on away team to win, and they have won in regular time, I did not played for away team to qualify for the next round??

How is that legit than???

Thanks PD!

I was simply pointing out that their rules say ML bets include "any overtime that may occur".

Do you think the rule is unfair? Not valid?

You must have some logical reason to title a thread pinnacle scammed you.

Did you look at the rules before deciding you were scammed?

**opedja95** · 09-21-19, 08:07 AM

Yes, I look into rules.

And yes the rules say that it will include any overtime that may occur.

I just did not found the specific explanation for this kind of event where a team that I bet on, actualy wins the game in regular time, and they count that specific overtime where a first leg is included.

They should be more specific as some other bookies, like William Hill that has this in their rules:

GENERAL RULES:
Basketball:

MONEY LINE:

Predict the team that will win the match.
Overtime counts.

5. For all Basketball Matches that are part of a two legged tie (eg Champions League, Europe Cup), all markets will be settled on regular time only. Any Extra Time played due to a tie being level at the end of normal time will not count for betting purposes.

Pinnacle is not clear on that, and that may leave some room for manipulation in grading bets.

**lonnie55** · 09-21-19, 09:01 AM

OP should be paid. But I'm afraid Pinnacle will appeal to their rules, especially the part that says "any overtime that may occur"

Good luck though

**horja1** · 09-21-19, 09:18 AM

Their rule is not fair, but it is written clearly "any overtime that may occur". Though loss.

**MrSink** · 09-21-19, 09:36 AM

Friend of mine pushed his bet on that also. +9 after FT . OT in two legged game. Ended up 6 .

Very sick loss but I am afraid that they managed it well

**deltgen** · 09-21-19, 09:38 AM

With the limited info we have, it seems that the OP won the bet. His team absolutely won that game, but the bet was graded as a loss because it didn't win the series. But this is wierd European stuff, so who knows?

**opedja95** · 09-21-19, 09:40 AM

Originally posted by MrSink

Friend of mine pushed his bet on that also. +9 after FT . OT in two legged game. Ended up 6 .

Very sick loss but I am afraid that they managed it well

Game ended 67:69 after regular time, and 85:83 after overtime how is that 6?

Im afraid I dont understand you..

**lonnie55** · 09-21-19, 09:45 AM

But, you will count my bet as winning, because I made a bet on money line on Real Madrid to win a match

There is no ML on soccer matches by the way, so that example is misleading actually

**lonnie55** · 09-21-19, 09:47 AM

Next time place your bet on 1x2. Higher odds and no risk of a possible OT.

**horja1** · 09-21-19, 09:51 AM

Originally posted by opedja95

Game ended 67:69 after regular time, and 85:83 after overtime how is that 6?

Im afraid I dont understand you..

he is probably talking about a different match

**lonnie55** · 09-21-19, 09:51 AM

BTW @OP, you could ask Pinnacle how they would settle ML if the 2nd leg ended in a draw. Refund of all bets?

**opedja95** · 09-21-19, 09:56 AM

Originally posted by deltgen

With the limited info we have, it seems that the OP won the bet. His team absolutely won that game, but the bet was graded as a loss because it didn't win the series. But this is wierd European stuff, so who knows?

I will try to explain this to you in short terms... if I can.

In Europe, (and I'm sure that its not only here) there are some competitions where you need to play qualifying games (lets say Play-offs) to get to the next round and eventually to the group stage.

In those qualifications, they draw 2 teams, and they play against each other on home and away court.

Its basically best out of 2.

Now, if both teams win 1 match each, than the point difference takes place.

Team that won by larger point difference advances to the next round.
Now, if in some case, both teams win another team by same difference, lets say by 2 points, than, game 2 must go into overtime to decide who is going to the next round. Clear by now?

Thats where all problems start for me.

I made a bet on second leg match Legia - Prishtina, for away team to win a match.
And they have won it in regular time 67:69.

But the problem was that result of the first leg was Prishtina - Legia 79:81

And that match had to go to overtime for competition purposes so they could decide who will go to the next round..
After overtime, the result was 85:83 for home team. And they have advanced to the next round.

Yet I have not made a bet on who will advance to next round, or who will qualify to the next stage, I have made a bet on moneyline, on away team.

Does that make sense now?

**deltgen** · 09-21-19, 10:01 AM

I understand completely and as I said, your wager seems a winner to me. I was being a bit flippant with the "wierd European" crack because in our sports' playoffs in the US, a series is always an odd-number of games, and the kind of scenario that you are facing doesn't happen. Good luck in your efforts on this issue.

**opedja95** · 09-21-19, 10:10 AM

Originally posted by lonnie55

There is no ML on soccer matches by the way, so that example is misleading actually

Not true, here I just copied this from pinnacle:
Werder Bremen - RB Leipzig
Moneyline – FT – Germany - Bundesliga
RB Leipzig 1.793

Originally posted by lonnie55

Next time place your bet on 1x2. Higher odds and no risk of a possible OT.

Again, you talk nonsense.
Pinnacle does not have 3 way on basketball, never had that.
And if I make a bet on 1x2, I could also lose on regular time X.

Thanks deltgen for your support!

**DontTailMe** · 09-21-19, 10:15 AM

Originally posted by lonnie55

OP should be paid. But I'm afraid Pinnacle will appeal to their rules, especially the part that says "any overtime that may occur"

Good luck though

I’m not so sure. You’re telling me that if you were on the other side of this bet, and the rules state that overtime counts, you would be fine with them given you a loss?

I think it’s unfortunate that their rules don’t address this peculiar scenario, but since they don’t, you have to follow the rules which DO exist. You can’t just make shit up on the fly. Overtime counts. Know the rules before you bet or don’t complain.

**opedja95** · 09-21-19, 10:31 AM

Originally posted by DontTailMe

I’m not so sure. You’re telling me that if you were on the other side of this bet, and the rules state that overtime counts, you would be fine with them given you a loss?

I think it’s unfortunate that their rules don’t address this peculiar scenario, but since they don’t, you have to follow the rules which DO exist. You can’t just make shit up on the fly. Overtime counts. Know the rules before you bet or don’t complain.

Again, the rules are NOT clear!

Even their traders are not sure how to deal this god dammit!

Yesterday evening, when I saw that my bet is graded as a LOSS.
I have written a complain and after an hour maybe they have responded to me:

20. Sep. 23:00:

Dear Mr. Petar,
Thank you for bringing this to our attention.
This is to inform you that your query will be send to our appropriate department.
Once we received an update, we will inform you accordingly.
We appreciate your collaboration.

20. Sep 23:06:

Dear Customer,
[Basketball] [Europe - Champions League] [Game] [Legia Warszawa vs. KB Prishtina]. Due to internal review we changed the status of your wager from settled to pending. Your bet on [Handicap, Money Line] with ticket-ID: [1038405322, 1038426168] has been affected. Once the internal review is finished, we will settle your wager.
Regards,
Pinnacle

20. Sep. 23:10:

Dear Customer,
[Basketball] [Europe - Champions League] [Game] [Legia Warszawa vs. KB Prishtina]. The event has been re-graded from [Score 85-83] to [Score 67-69] due to the following reason: [Official site had wrong result]. Your bet on [Handicap, Money Line] with ticket-ID: [1038405322, 1038426168] may have been affected. Sorry for the inconvenience.

21. Sep 00:35:

Dear Client,

Thank you for your patience.

This is to inform you that this has been corrected.

Thank you for your understanding.

If you require any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.

And they paid me out my winnings... And I was stupid enough not to make a withdrawal...

And than today:
21. Sep. 13:02:

[Basketball] [Europe - Champions League] [Game] [Legia Warszawa vs. KB Prishtina]. The event has been re-graded from [Score 67-69] to [Score 85-83] due to the following reason: [Wrong information was entered]. Your bet on [Handicap, Money Line] with ticket-ID: [1038405322, 1038426168] may have been affected. Sorry for the inconvenience.

How about knowing your rules...

They are oblivious.

**dealer wins** · 09-21-19, 11:45 AM

You have run into one of those rare situations where there is a grey area in their rules. Also it doesnt help that their "traders" (Like most bookmakers traders these days) dont really have much understanding about how the sport operates/competition formats etc

Hopefully if you appeal it again it will find its way in-front of someone who actually understands what has happened. Looks like a clear winning bet to me.

ML bets are only for a single match, unless betting on a series which would clearly be stated on the line being bet on.

**lonnie55** · 09-21-19, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by opedja95

Not true, here I just copied this from pinnacle:
Werder Bremen - RB Leipzig
Moneyline – FT – Germany - Bundesliga
RB Leipzig 1.793

Yeah, but it's 1x2 though

Moneyline means that there can't be a draw. See definition: "The difference between 1X2 and Moneyline lies in the absence of a draw" https://www.betburger.com/wiki/moneyline

It's important to distinguish between 1x2 and ML because at some places, especially EU based books, you can bet on 1x2 AND ML on sports like Basketball, Baseball, Hockey, Tennis etc.

Originally posted by opedja95

Again, you talk nonsense.
Pinnacle does not have 3 way on basketball, never had that.

I meant you should place your bets at places where 1x2 is offered

Originally posted by opedja95

And if I make a bet on 1x2, I could also lose on regular time X.

Sure, but you would have won your bet in this case.

Besides, I'm not sure if you recognized that I'm actually siding with you (see #7)

Please ask Pinnacle how they handle bets on ML when a 2nd leg ends in a draw

**vujo** · 09-21-19, 12:49 PM

So if the score was 68-69 your bet will be winning?
What a idiotic situation

**Gaze73** · 09-21-19, 02:34 PM

Oh look, it's the official result and not Pinnacle trying to avoid a tiny payout. You know someone bet maybe $5k on the fav ML and he got paid.

**Gaze73** · 09-21-19, 02:43 PM

Originally posted by vujo

So if the score was 68-69 your bet will be winning?
What a idiotic situation

Edit: Yeah that seems to be correct.

**Optional** · 09-21-19, 05:20 PM

Originally posted by opedja95

Again, the rules are NOT clear!

Their rules are inarguablely 100% clear. You are wrong to say that.

They are so clear that anyone who was on the other side would have a real case for complaint if their bets were graded losses.

You do not.

The rules may not be the same as your other bookmaker, and may not be the way you assumed, but they are very clear that your bet loses.

The words "any overtime" are not ambiguous at all.

Your bet outcome is not going to change.

Pinnacle have not scammed you.

Originally posted by opedja95

How about knowing your rules...

They are oblivious.

They told you that there was scoring errors. Not that they did not understand their rules.

Vent away, its a bad beat sort of result, but no need to twist the truth.

**stackz125** · 09-21-19, 05:38 PM

Im trying to figure out how a game went to OT if it ended 69-68 in regular time...

**Optional** · 09-21-19, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by stackz125

Im trying to figure out how a game went to OT if it ended 69-68 in regular time...

2nd leg of a two game series to progress in Champs League.

Drawn after reg time based on both legs.

**moojoo** · 09-21-19, 06:24 PM

penetrate man this is toughest loss i have ever seen. I would say they should pay at least stake,but again as Optional says ANY OVERTIME COUNT.
But they need to have this rules clear,at least some indicator about rules if specific case.
This situation is so fckd up,imagine you win bet go take money from shop and lose wallet on your way home.

**DontTailMe** · 09-21-19, 08:48 PM

Originally posted by opedja95

Again, the rules are NOT clear!

It seems like you're saying the rules aren't clear because you expect there to be an exception case detailed in the rules, like the other book you cited. Yeah, maybe there should be. But the lack of an exception case doesn't mean the rules aren't clear. They are clear - you just disagree with them. It's a tough beat for sure, but the book cannot ignore the current rules when grading this wager. The players on the other side would go ballistic...and rightly so. A literal reading of the rules is always the correct decision.

**opedja95** · 09-23-19, 02:16 AM

Originally posted by lonnie55

Yeah, but it's 1x2 though

Moneyline means that there can't be a draw. See definition: "The difference between 1X2 and Moneyline lies in the absence of a draw" https://www.betburger.com/wiki/moneyline

It's important to distinguish between 1x2 and ML because at some places, especially EU based books, you can bet on 1x2 AND ML on sports like Basketball, Baseball, Hockey, Tennis etc.

I meant you should place your bets at places where 1x2 is offered

Sure, but you would have won your bet in this case.

Besides, I'm not sure if you recognized that I'm actually siding with you (see #7)

Please ask Pinnacle how they handle bets on ML when a 2nd leg ends in a draw

I know the definition of money line... Thats not the point, I made a bet on who will win that single game, and not the whole series, my team has won that game in regular time and thats the whole point...

And I understand that you're on my side, its just that im so fckd up about this thing and I may have overreacted..

Originally posted by Optional

Their rules are inarguablely 100% clear. You are wrong to say that.

They are so clear that anyone who was on the other side would have a real case for complaint if their bets were graded losses.

You do not.

The rules may not be the same as your other bookmaker, and may not be the way you assumed, but they are very clear that your bet loses.

The words "any overtime" are not ambiguous at all.

Your bet outcome is not going to change.

Pinnacle have not scammed you.

They told you that there was scoring errors. Not that they did not understand their rules.

Vent away, its a bad beat sort of result, but no need to twist the truth.

Ok than, they have not scammed me maybe, I was over the top with that reaction, but, in my opinion they have that grey area as someone said on this topic, where they can manipulate with outcomes in this kind of situation..

Here is the update off this case and the last message I got from Pinnacle after my third or fourth complaint..

Dear Obradovic,

Thank you for patiently waiting.

Please be advised that we have forwarded your wager concern to our relevant department.

After they reviewed, they confirmed that your wager is graded correctly and no changes.

The winner of the series shall be the Club that has scored at the end of the 2nd game the greater number of aggregate points over the two (2) games. 14.4.2 If the score is tied a) at the end of the 1st game, or b) at the end of the 2nd game but the aggregate score is not tied, no extra period shall be played. 14.4.3 If the aggregate score of the two (2) games is tied at the end of playing time of the fourth period of the 2nd game, this game shall continue with as many extra periods of five (5) minutes as is necessary to break the tie.

I hope this information has informed you well.

Please feel free to contact us if you need further assistance.

Best regards,
Customer Service Department / Pinnacle,

Can someone help me with this?

I have already tried everything, maybe some of you guys have a better idea and can file better complaint?

This is on my side:

1. I have made a bet on single game, who will win the game, money line, and my team has won in regular time 67:69, I did not made a bet on who will win the series.
2. Pinnacle has already changed my status of ticket from LOSS to WINNING, after I filed my first complain shortly after the end of the match.
3. Pinnacle does not have a section in their rules which specifies those kind of situations.

If someone can make a good complaint, and that complaint helps me so Pinnacle pays me out my winning bet, I will send him 100 euros.

I hope there still is a chance!

**TheGoldenGoose** · 09-23-19, 03:18 AM

I'm not reading above so I ask a simple question...
HOW MUCH WAS YOUR WAGER?

**opedja95** · 09-23-19, 03:28 AM

Originally posted by TheGoldenGoose

I'm not reading above so I ask a simple question...
HOW MUCH WAS YOUR WAGER?

Stake 106.04 Odds 4.250 To Win 344.63

I lost 450 euros in total on this match, because I am a proffesional arber.

**Alfa1234** · 09-23-19, 03:51 AM

Originally posted by opedja95

Stake 106.04 Odds 4.250 To Win 344.63

I lost 450 euros in total on this match, because I am a proffesional arber.

I feel for you, but you should let it go. Pinnacle is not going to change their position on this, the rules are 100% clear. Take the loss, learn from the experience and move on. There is nothing else to be done.

**cashin81** · 09-23-19, 04:52 AM

just because rules are clear, doesnt mean that they are right or fair. It could mean that they didn't account for this situation.

Does any other book follow this rule? if theres a few then you have lost fairly, if you cant find another reputable book following this rule - then the rule is unfair.

so far you have only mentioned willhill.