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A single dispute over a future doesn't automatically undermine a book's credibility. That would take internet communication to a whole new level of taking things out of context.
Not everybody criticizing is a newbie, but you know what I'm referring to. There's a drop of red paint in the water and the swarm of piranhas is on its way... The forum could be so much better without them.
When a sportsbook manager comes in here, there's an opportunity. You can test them to see how they respond. Then, if they pass that test, you make them feel welcome and establish some level of trust. After that they will be far more inclined to listen to constructive suggestions. A personal relationship can go a long way. I remember Aden from Actionbets. They were moving their lines too slow with -107 juice and were taken to the cleaners. They could no longer pay. But because I had come to know Aden here I was among the first to get paid. Just one example. Richard from Phoenix listened to many suggestions that were posted here. What was possibly achieved by chasing him out of town?
I do suspect that some books may use this forum to attack competing books. There are just too many newbies that sign up for seemingly no other purpose than create negative momentum.Last edited by Dark Horse; 04-01-10, 06:50 PM.Comment -
Too many questions right now about Betonline. Why not stick with books that aren't having issues?Comment -
CROOKS!!! they stiffed me years ago and will stiff you too!!!Comment -
although i am not thrilled by the responses of betonline in this thread, i am glad to see them represent themselves here.Comment -
so let me get this right, you guys had processor issues with the U.S. Gov so you dont pay out 11k. Thats some crap, show proof and possibly split the losses or pay your players. Wheen Tilt and Pstars had major issues I didnt see them telling their players to get their funds from the US gov, u chose to target US customers u take the risk IMO. anyone else agree?
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BetonSports: A drunken Clive Archer places blame on David Carruthers
Former BetonSports CEO David Carruthers enjoyed a Thanksgiving with friends, family and some online gambling industry leaders inside his luxury St. Louis suite. But certainly not all is sweet. Carruthers awaits trial on various charges stemming from his association with BetonSports including money laundering and tax evasion.
Carruthers - who is not a US citizen, but hails from Great Britain - must wear an ankle bracelet and remain in his St. Louis hotel room, though he has reportedly been allowed to leave two hours a day.
Following Carruthers arrest at the Dallas Fort Worth International Airport in mid-July, BetonSports immediately terminated him. The company settled with the US government two weeks ago but is yet to pay any customers as ordered by the Justice Department.
Those close to Carruthers say he has no intention of plea bargaining. Carruthers, unlike his peers at BetonSports, has maintained his dignity and is still held in high regard by his colleagues. He has also expressed disgust over how BetonSports was completely dismantled in his absence.
A lawsuit will be brought against all of BetonSports Board of Directors shortly.
"I am writing the details for a writ right now for my client," an attorney told Gambling911.com in confidence. "And it will go after all the directors including poor Scott Waller, who really was screwed by this whole thing."
Scott Waller, 46, joined BetonSports in July 2005 as the Chief Technology
Officer for the Group. Scott arrived at BetonSprots with extensive experience in
gaming software as Senior Vice President of IQ-Ludorum, a one time major
supplier of sportsbook and casino software. Scott was previously responsible for
the development and deployment of large scale customer relationship management
(CRM) systems in the IT industry for key customers including Sony, Nintendo,
FujiFilm and Rockwell Corporation.
Also, BetonSports Operations Director, Clive Archer, and Finance Director, Richard Creed, were seen at Sue Schneider's gaming show in Europe last month "completely hammered out of their heads", sources told Gambling911.
"They were spouting off to anyone who listened that David (Carruthers) was to blame (for the BetonSports debacle). Meanwhile, David is telling people that he would have never shut down operations...as he put it, "It was the only leverage BoS had, and they lost it'."
Archer is now focusing on finding employment with another online gambling firm. But his handling of the BoS situation is hardly something that would look impressive on a resume, not to mention the fact that any company looking to hire Archer would risk potential scrutiny from the US government.
Meanwhile, antsy and upset customers of BetonSports have begun to contact the US Attorney's office in St. Louis to advise of the company's failure to live up to its settlement promise. Phone lines to BoS have been cut off, though a few customers have reported a BetonSports representative answering after over a hundred rings.
Most employees have not yet been paid and the Costa Rican government is closely monitoring this situation.
BetonSports spokesperson, Kevin Smith, who ironically resides in St. Louis, will also be the focus of a possible lawsuit.
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Christopher Costigan, www.gambling911.com
Originally published November 24, 2006 12:16 am ET
Hard to believe anyone would hire Archer for even a phone clerk job after the BOS disaster, yet BOL makes him their CEO.
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The issue of BOS/betonline was definitely discussed a couple of years ago, on more then one occasion, and for most of the players, including us the “newbies”, it was quite easy to connect the dots back then and now it is just plain obvious, betonline’s ties to BOS extend beyond management, it is more then just a business relationship; it is partnership that has carried excess baggage for quite some.
A pest to the river….hmmm….Who’s river? We don’t need a politician trying to mitigate for his own personal gain. The reason I joined this forum is because it is an open forum and the truth should always be welcome, no matter who is affected in the end.Comment -
They just never gave me the warm fuzzies at BoL....... there are other better safer places to play.Comment -
good pointso let me get this right, you guys had processor issues with the U.S. Gov so you dont pay out 11k. Thats some crap, show proof and possibly split the losses or pay your players. Wheen Tilt and Pstars had major issues I didnt see them telling their players to get their funds from the US gov, u chose to target US customers u take the risk IMO. anyone else agree?Comment -
Why doesnt this ****ing thief pay the BOS players before taking over a new book?Welcome back Betonsports' Clive Archer
Get the **** out of Betonline everyone!Comment -
bingo!so let me get this right, you guys had processor issues with the u.s. Gov so you dont pay out 11k. Thats some crap, show proof and possibly split the losses or pay your players. Wheen tilt and pstars had major issues i didnt see them telling their players to get their funds from the us gov, u chose to target us customers u take the risk imo. Anyone else agree?Comment -
for what is worth i got payed five figures from betonline, it took awhile but their checks cashed.Comment -
if the betmill guy now runs betonline i sure would like the money he owes me.Comment -
"The BetMill guy" never cheated anyone. He did sell to a low rated sportsbook company. When the VO group was its own entity, it was rated B-. The brands didn't go down with new parent company, BOS, until 5 months later.Comment -
The whole thing smells. You've got BOL with a BOS crook running the show. Then you see the recent attempted Future Wagers theft and can't help but connect the dots. Even worse, BOL is an SBR sponsor so the site you trust the most has to pull its punches with these jokers. At least the future wagers were correctly resolved after a month, but still.....Comment -
I have a little money at BOL and will give them some baseball play. I hope BOL continues to be active on the forums.Comment -
Tomato doesn't know. Their baseball lines are soooooooo soft. And the limits are high.
Tomato wants to post up, but honestly feels safer posting up at Sportsbook.com at this point.Comment -
still avoiding themComment -
Wasn't this story retracted?Comment -
Agreed. The purpose should be to come to a close estimation of what is true and not true. My point was that the frenzied masses rarely come to the correct conclusion. Typically, there's an emotional overreaction, that, also typically, can be set off by one of a number of keywords. Similar to the red rag in front of the bull. If I've learned anything from gambling, as well as reading this forum, it is that most people believe the headlines/keywords cover the load.
Don't take my word for it. Just observe. A short while ago the focus was on Betphoenix. One thread after another. Some with valid criticism, but most by pitchfork carrying bandwagoners without a clue. Now the attention has shifted to Betonline.
The sad thing, from an information perspective, is that valid criticism gets lost in an overload of cheap shots against books.
As to myself, I'm anything but a politician, if it is about manipulation (as you seem to suggest). But if it is about communication, as opposed to going to war at the first sign of disagreement, then I'm guilty as charged. And, as a gambler, I have an inherent respect for good books. Not only do I see them as partners, rather than opponents, but I'm also somewhat aware of the depth of knowledge required to run a top of the line bookmaking operation.Last edited by Dark Horse; 04-17-10, 12:07 PM.Comment -
I don't see the logic there. The A rated Hollyood Sportsbook wasn't the same people that slow-payed everyone 8 months later after Sportsbook.com bought it. When SBG stole all BetRoyal money after buying the C- rated book, it wasn't the old BetRoyal that cheated (in this case anyway). I can see the argument if it happened in month #1 before the player had a chance to withdraw his money or was the deal resulted in players be required to unjustly rollover money. If the seller ignored mistratement of his former players...But, in the years before the VO group was sold, they ran a decent outfit. They didn't utilize paypal and then Neteller or a big CS group as well as the other big books but they weren't cheats.
We aren't able to speak on who owns how much of what but what I can say is the majority ownership has been the same since BetOnline.com was bought from the small book in oficentro exactly 3 years ago.Comment -
I also respect top Books, but BOL is not one of them. Average Book at best.Comment -
What rating would you give them HedgeHog?Comment -
Do you honestly believe that these guys were going to make the future wagers right without all the ranting on different sites?Sam B has yet to come on and say he got paid from his request of March 26th.Sorry Bill but there is a few of us that will never forget the fukking we got from the BOS family and this outfit seems to be of the same ilk.Not to answer for Hedgehog but these guys are a D at best until the issues they have are taken care of. FTR,Betmill did stiff just as BD said.Comment -
IMO, just a C- or D+, especially after the future wagers fiasco. Also, I hear that their check payouts are taking weeks to process. Most A or B Books can get you a check in 3-5 days at worst. So basically an average Book at best as I see them.
May I ask what makes them a B+ Book in your analysis?
Thanks, HHComment -
Exactly. C sounds fair, they paid the player in the end but it took weeks of negotiation, and they still insist they were right and only paid him as a courtesy. Additionally, they limited the player to $1 wagers across the board as a punitive measure and they admitted as much in one of their posts, where they said something to the effect of "We'll pay him for that bet but we're booting him in the process." Cutting a guy's limits to effectively 0 because you don't think they're a profitable customer is one thing but doing it because they wouldn't bend over and get ****ed in the ass is something different entirely. This book should be no higher than a C.Comment -
I can imagine that bringing back one of the old CEO's from the BOS fiasco, and paint him as the one 'good guy' from that time, is a joke to those who BOS stole from. Even if that were true, the willingness to open that old wound is still a public relations fiasco. They don't have the benefit of the doubt. Did I just use fiasco twice in one paragraph? On the other hand, BOL's track record has to be judged on its own merit. Obviously this book is being watched very closely by players, and they asked for that by not making a clean cut with the BOS past, so it has to walk a very clean line and hold itself to extremely high standards. I would like to see them set aside part of their profits to pay back BOS players, even if it takes ten years. By their own recent actions, they can no longer claim that they're a completely separate business.Comment -
At the time BestLine (BLS was taken over in 2004) merged its business with BetOnline majority ownership it was a solid B without ever bullying a player. The group made it to A- and back down to B during the mgt. shakeup. This book's lines goes back 6 years.
Unfortunately the standard for checks is not solidified enough to say good books have to process within a business week. As long as books aren't advertising check times they can never keep, a la Sportsbook.com, we have to accept the hiccups. Last year folks were happy with a month.Comment -
This sure is a Tough Crowd !
I still don't understand how people place the Blame on a Book when it is taken over by new Ownership ?? or Ex-Employees ??
Does everyone think that the Ex-Employees from BOS just Packed up their bags and left the business ??
maybe we should close out accounts at Books that have Ex- CS, Clerks, Stage managers, etc....
Oh, BTW...That would leave you with NO place to make a wager.Comment
