Betphoenix.com Scammed me for $24,470

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  • uva3021
    SBR Wise Guy
    • 03-01-07
    • 537

    #106
    Very convoluded series of events.

    Curious as to why they would direct you to an affiliated PPH shop when you are trying to deposit more money. Wish we could get more on how that conversation occasioned to turn to a credit shop discussion. Basically just got a yada yada yada.

    I've never had a problem with BetPhoenix. Seems like the complaints arise out of misinterpreted prop plays, parlays, futures, or a withdrawal after depositing via credit card.

    Use **, **, *******, instadebit, or one of the plethora of depositing options available that is not credit card, and stick to straight bets. Then there won't be an issue.
    Comment
    • ShamsWoof10
      SBR MVP
      • 11-15-06
      • 4827

      #107
      Originally posted by uva3021
      Seems like the complaints arise out of misinterpreted prop plays, parlays, futures, or a withdrawal after depositing via credit card.
      What are the complaints about parlays; are people trying to "HedgeHog" this book..?

      Originally posted by Dark Horse
      Funny how this forum has become so predictable. Before the army of 14-year old newbies had their eye on Betphoenix they couldn't wait to fall all over 5Dimes. 5Dimes was bad, 5Dimes was a scam, 5Dimes was unreliable, and so on. And now? Not a word about 5Dimes.
      I don't remember the 5Dimes stuff but I haven't been around as long as you... As far as I know BP is pretty new so I can see where complaints will sway people but I first played at 5Dimes in 03' and I imagine they were around before then...

      People here over react on a daily basis about everything so it is what it is... I don't know what is wrong here but it seems to be getting some work which is good for everyone...

      Comment
      • Dark Horse
        SBR Posting Legend
        • 12-14-05
        • 13764

        #108
        I think BP wanted to be a new kind of book, with greater 'feel' with the public. I don't remember every detail, but that's what BP, the poster, seemed to convey when he began posting here regularly. At this point it looks like he realizes that there's a reason why shops like Pinnacle and 5Dimes don't communicate with players. Those shops run a very tight ship, know their business inside out, and will give a quick, to-the-point explanation in case of a misunderstanding. Beyond that, there is no discussion.

        BP, the family of books, hasn't been without mistakes. Very few businesses are. What is important to me is how they dealt with mistakes, such as in the BetOT case (if I remember the book correctly). That new book messed up, and BP paid all players. As to experience, BP is not new. They were Asia-facing before.

        This forum has turned into zombieland, especially after the SBR points system was introduced (and attracted people that would be attracted by that). When a book is generous, they're irresponsible and must be going broke soon. When a book changes their lineset for college ball to protect their bottomline, they must be in trouble. If they would not adjust it, they wouldn't see how easily they were getting picked off. When a book loses a senior linesmaker, they must be doomed (because it's too hard to monitor the board). As far as I can see, BP is still open to a personalized relationship, and is open to negotiating details, but you have to go after that yourself. As to this forum, they may have learned their lesson. Open communication here only backfires. How could it not when people with five minutes of reading about the industry can get the same attention as people with fifty years in the industry? Communication based on that type of disparity is just a waste of time.
        Comment
        • SSLP
          SBR Hall of Famer
          • 02-29-08
          • 5232

          #109
          Dark horse probably just posted the post of the year
          Comment
          • bigboyfosho
            SBR MVP
            • 02-19-09
            • 1576

            #110
            agreed
            Comment
            • bettilimbroke999
              SBR Posting Legend
              • 02-04-08
              • 13254

              #111
              Originally posted by ShamsWoof10
              What are the complaints about parlays; are people trying to "HedgeHog" this book..?
              Sham you really are a sportsbook.com shill arent you, sportsbook.com and their group of books decided to steal from players a year or more after issuing bonuses and allowing correlated parlays etc

              If a book gives you bonuses they give you bonuses, they're the ones who decide what bonuses you get, if they cut you off thats fine but they cant a year later steal money from you and say we shouldnt have given you that bonus , correlated parlays may be slightly +EV idk I've made several of them at books and seem to lose everytime but if a book doesn't want to accept them then program it into their software like all the other books, you cant accept them then comeback a year later and steal the winnings but all the losing wagers let them stand, sportsbook.com SUCKS
              Comment
              • darkenergy
                SBR MVP
                • 01-08-09
                • 4013

                #112
                A friend of mine is an agent for VB book, and here what he does. Every week when he meet up with the runner, he call back to the main office telling the manager that he is taking/given money while both of them at the site. The manager normally speak briefly with the runner and give a YES. He definitely have to get a YES before he hand out the money.
                We dealing ranging between $5k to $30k+ weekly, never have a single problem.....so far.
                I hope you get your problem resolve, and keep us update.
                Comment
                • BET THE HOOK
                  SBR MVP
                  • 02-16-09
                  • 1947

                  #113
                  BetPhoenix has always been wonderful to me so I dont know how all these players can have all these problems. I almost never have any problems with wagering or payouts or anything.
                  Comment
                  • mvp123
                    SBR MVP
                    • 07-24-06
                    • 1736

                    #114
                    bet phoniex is a joke of a book and so isrichard from there ...all he is is a marketer
                    Comment
                    • BetPhoenix_Scam
                      SBR Rookie
                      • 01-22-10
                      • 10

                      #115
                      Originally posted by darkenergy
                      A friend of mine is an agent for VB book, and here what he does. Every week when he meet up with the runner, he call back to the main office telling the manager that he is taking/given money while both of them at the site. The manager normally speak briefly with the runner and give a YES. He definitely have to get a YES before he hand out the money.
                      We dealing ranging between $5k to $30k+ weekly, never have a single problem.....so far.
                      I hope you get your problem resolve, and keep us update.
                      Thanks for the comment darkenergy. The process you stated was EXACTLY what I assumed would be the process, and if it was, there should at least be some kind of records, which is the only proof I'm asking for (which I also assume they should have if the transaction is legit).
                      Comment
                      • Ace_of_Spades
                        SBR Posting Legend
                        • 10-14-09
                        • 13518

                        #116
                        Originally posted by BET THE HOOK
                        BetPhoenix has always been wonderful to me so I dont know how all these players can have all these problems. I almost never have any problems with wagering or payouts or anything.
                        Wonderful at taking your money?
                        Comment
                        • Ace_of_Spades
                          SBR Posting Legend
                          • 10-14-09
                          • 13518

                          #117
                          Originally posted by BetPhoenix_Scam
                          Thanks for the comment darkenergy. The process you stated was EXACTLY what I assumed would be the process, and if it was, there should at least be some kind of records, which is the only proof I'm asking for (which I also assume they should have if the transaction is legit).
                          They keep records, every book keeps records. Something is definately not adding up, it should be easy to find out every detail of any transaction, especially one of this volume.
                          Comment
                          • Patrick McIrish
                            SBR MVP
                            • 09-15-05
                            • 2864

                            #118
                            Originally posted by bettilimbroke999
                            Sham you really are a sportsbook.com shill arent you, sportsbook.com and their group of books decided to steal from players a year or more after issuing bonuses and allowing correlated parlays etc

                            If a book gives you bonuses they give you bonuses, they're the ones who decide what bonuses you get, if they cut you off thats fine but they cant a year later steal money from you and say we shouldnt have given you that bonus , correlated parlays may be slightly +EV idk I've made several of them at books and seem to lose everytime but if a book doesn't want to accept them then program it into their software like all the other books, you cant accept them then comeback a year later and steal the winnings but all the losing wagers let them stand, sportsbook.com SUCKS


                            Sharp post.
                            Comment
                            • TigerPawsSC
                              SBR Hustler
                              • 11-21-09
                              • 94

                              #119
                              Soooo many shills on this site.
                              Comment
                              • raiders72002
                                SBR MVP
                                • 03-06-07
                                • 3368

                                #120
                                Darkhorse - Great posts in this thread. It's the kiddies that have never played at BP that are jumping in saying that BP sucks. They are a strong book and every guy that's in the biz has echoed these thoughts.
                                Comment
                                • darkenergy
                                  SBR MVP
                                  • 01-08-09
                                  • 4013

                                  #121
                                  Originally posted by Ace_of_Spades
                                  They keep records, every book keeps records. Something is definately not adding up, it should be easy to find out every detail of any transaction, especially one of this volume.
                                  I feel a lot of readers confusing between you deposit money (MO, **, **** etc) directly to BP (and other few sportbooks), and playing through agent are the same. I think NOT.
                                  When you deposit money directly to BP (via MO, **, ****) you are kinda play "on the record". On other hand, when you playing with agent, you are kinda play "off the record".
                                  Although, playing with agent you will have the same features as regular players in term of wagering options, they will keep your record of plays, etc; BUT in term of payout/payin you are not much different than playing with a local bookie in a local sport bar. Whoever, playing with agent know that you don't get bonus points, your account is reset weekly, or at a certain amount that you are require to settle.

                                  Accountant department (if there is one) might have a record of your received/payout amount, BUT i doubt that amount gonna be in their annual financial report, UNLIKE all of the regular clients deposit money straight to their website.

                                  In term of they give you 30% of commission, you should feel this deal too good to be true from the beginning. If customers win, they payout 100%, and if customers lose they charge customers 10% juice (assumed no special juice reduction) then turn around give you 30%. UNLESS you can guarantee you will bring them customer(s) that will definitely gonna lose every week, other than that how can they afford that.
                                  General rule of thumb, bookies initiate to give you 5% when you collect money for them. If you can negotiate good, you probably get 10%. Maybe there are some good deal like you stated 30% of commission, but haven't seen any.

                                  The statement you made about, they want you to responsible for 30% of your client win, sound like they want you to be their partner from the beginning. Communicating with these guys have to be crystal clear, if you gonna do this again.

                                  I do hope you get your problem straight, but oh man, you should handling this transaction yourself in the first place. If you are too busy, then reschedule to a different time, why have someone else replace you especially this is the very FIRST TIME.
                                  Again, please let us know what going on.

                                  BTW, still have money move to Macao my man
                                  Comment
                                  • THEGREAT30
                                    SBR Hall of Famer
                                    • 10-04-08
                                    • 8970

                                    #122
                                    Anything new guy who got raped for $25,000?
                                    Comment
                                    • raiders72002
                                      SBR MVP
                                      • 03-06-07
                                      • 3368

                                      #123
                                      30% is the norm. Some of the big affiliates get up to 50%
                                      Originally posted by darkenergy
                                      I feel a lot of readers confusing between you deposit money (MO, **, **** etc) directly to BP (and other few sportbooks), and playing through agent are the same. I think NOT.
                                      When you deposit money directly to BP (via MO, **, ****) you are kinda play "on the record". On other hand, when you playing with agent, you are kinda play "off the record".
                                      Although, playing with agent you will have the same features as regular players in term of wagering options, they will keep your record of plays, etc; BUT in term of payout/payin you are not much different than playing with a local bookie in a local sport bar. Whoever, playing with agent know that you don't get bonus points, your account is reset weekly, or at a certain amount that you are require to settle.

                                      Accountant department (if there is one) might have a record of your received/payout amount, BUT i doubt that amount gonna be in their annual financial report, UNLIKE all of the regular clients deposit money straight to their website.

                                      In term of they give you 30% of commission, you should feel this deal too good to be true from the beginning. If customers win, they payout 100%, and if customers lose they charge customers 10% juice (assumed no special juice reduction) then turn around give you 30%. UNLESS you can guarantee you will bring them customer(s) that will definitely gonna lose every week, other than that how can they afford that.
                                      General rule of thumb, bookies initiate to give you 5% when you collect money for them. If you can negotiate good, you probably get 10%. Maybe there are some good deal like you stated 30% of commission, but haven't seen any.

                                      The statement you made about, they want you to responsible for 30% of your client win, sound like they want you to be their partner from the beginning. Communicating with these guys have to be crystal clear, if you gonna do this again.

                                      I do hope you get your problem straight, but oh man, you should handling this transaction yourself in the first place. If you are too busy, then reschedule to a different time, why have someone else replace you especially this is the very FIRST TIME.
                                      Again, please let us know what going on.

                                      BTW, still have money move to Macao my man
                                      Comment
                                      • BetPhoenix_Scam
                                        SBR Rookie
                                        • 01-22-10
                                        • 10

                                        #124
                                        Originally posted by THEGREAT30
                                        Anything new guy who got raped for $25,000?
                                        Not yet... but I sent Bill the details of my accounts 4 days ago, so going to contact him next week (give him time to do the research). Wilheim at therx is also working on this for me, so will keep everyone updated.
                                        Comment
                                        • BetPhoenix_Scam
                                          SBR Rookie
                                          • 01-22-10
                                          • 10

                                          #125
                                          Originally posted by darkenergy
                                          In term of they give you 30% of commission, you should feel this deal too good to be true from the beginning. If customers win, they payout 100%, and if customers lose they charge customers 10% juice (assumed no special juice reduction) then turn around give you 30%. UNLESS you can guarantee you will bring them customer(s) that will definitely gonna lose every week, other than that how can they afford that.
                                          Keep in mind though that it's 30% of NET LIFETIME losses. So unless BP makes a profit from my players overall, I don't expect to make a profit either, which I think is fair and most likely standard.
                                          Comment
                                          • BetPhoenix_Scam
                                            SBR Rookie
                                            • 01-22-10
                                            • 10

                                            #126
                                            Haven't gotten a response from Bill after sending him the details 12 days ago....

                                            No response from the other person looking into this at another forum as well...
                                            Comment
                                            • soxwin1917
                                              SBR MVP
                                              • 09-09-08
                                              • 1188

                                              #127
                                              Goodluck getting this worked out man. Doesn't seem like anyone really WANTS to help at this point
                                              Comment
                                              • Ayden
                                                SBR Rookie
                                                • 01-30-10
                                                • 40

                                                #128
                                                there is a number u can call.... 911.. won't they do anything? lol
                                                Comment
                                                • THEGREAT30
                                                  SBR Hall of Famer
                                                  • 10-04-08
                                                  • 8970

                                                  #129
                                                  I guess they will claim that this is out of there jurisdiction, meaning you should not have ever entered into this type of business with BP, but I disagree, everything we do if we live in the U.S. with these books could be considered something you should not do because it certainly could be considered illegal. This just proves that they are dishonest. We all know that though. Any book that will deal with U.S. customers is dishonest and waiting a chance to screw you because they feel you have little recourse, it's sad, but true.
                                                  Comment
                                                  • Fishhead
                                                    SBR Aristocracy
                                                    • 08-11-05
                                                    • 40179

                                                    #130
                                                    Originally posted by BetPhoenix_Scam
                                                    Haven't gotten a response from Bill after sending him the details 12 days ago....

                                                    No response from the other person looking into this at another forum as well...


                                                    WTF is going on here???
                                                    Comment
                                                    • JerCon
                                                      SBR Rookie
                                                      • 02-09-10
                                                      • 3

                                                      #131
                                                      You should only play on the big places like sportsbook.com or bwin.com and not with those smaller sites that can scam you like this.. hope you resolve this issue!

                                                      [remove off-site images]
                                                      Comment
                                                      • scarface
                                                        SBR High Roller
                                                        • 02-09-10
                                                        • 177

                                                        #132
                                                        bp needs a downgrade after this, if having low security standards and losing peoples money is not enough for a downgrade then i do not know what is....
                                                        Comment
                                                        • Dark Horse
                                                          SBR Posting Legend
                                                          • 12-14-05
                                                          • 13764

                                                          #133
                                                          Originally posted by JerCon
                                                          You should only play on the big places like sportsbook.com or bwin.com and not with those smaller sites that can scam you like this.. hope you resolve this issue!

                                                          Unreal.

                                                          Could I suggest that people with 3 and 7 posts (the two above posters) aren't allowed on this part of the forum? The art of misinformation is reaching new heights here, the once-upon-a-time number one spot for industry info.
                                                          Comment
                                                          • vitalyo
                                                            SBR MVP
                                                            • 12-05-07
                                                            • 1615

                                                            #134
                                                            Originally posted by Dark Horse
                                                            Unreal.

                                                            Could I suggest that people with 3 and 7 posts (the two above posters) aren't allowed on this part of the forum? The art of misinformation is reaching new heights here, the once-upon-a-time number one spot for industry info.
                                                            It's kind of hard to argue with you
                                                            Comment
                                                            • BigdaddyQH
                                                              SBR Posting Legend
                                                              • 07-13-09
                                                              • 19530

                                                              #135
                                                              I have to agree with DarkHorse here. These posts are getting to be nothing more than a joke. Here is the bottom line boys and girls. If you wager using off shore books, you are begging to get screwed. Just bend over and spread your cheeks, because this is what you have coming. How many hundreds of complaints are there just on this site alone? This one is certainly one of the more unbelieveable ones, and the fact that this guy is still able to type after naming names is a miracle, but this certainly is not the only complaint in here.

                                                              People bitch about having wagers changed, about having limits cut, about being totally cut off from wagering, about slow pays, about the costs of next day pays, and everything else imaginable. Hell, I'm suprised that you guys are not complaining about the length of the skirts that the female employees wear. You complain about everything else. Well here is a little clue for you moaners and groaners. There is not a damn thing you can do about it. You are breaking the law. Got it? The feds could nail each and everyone of you if they chose to. The feds can close down operations in any of these books in this country if they choose to. You are powerless.

                                                              BetPhoenix_Scam, what are you going to do about this? Rat people out? Do you have any idea who REALLY runs these off shore books? Before I run my mouth and finger people, I would definately do some research. Now about your particular problem, what are you going to do abou it? Fly to Costa Rica and hire an attorney? Go to the U.N? You have admitted to wanting to participate in an illegal operation. What you have posted in here is certainly enough information to warrant a probable cause search warrant to be issued, if the feds wanted to make an issue out of this. I suggest, and VERY STRONGLY, that you keep your complaints in house. If you want SBR to get involved, do it in a way that does not publically raise more red flags than a 20 car wreck at Daytona. Deal with this in a professional and adult manner. Whining and crying in here is not a professional or adult manner.
                                                              Comment
                                                              • FishFace5
                                                                SBR MVP
                                                                • 10-15-09
                                                                • 1768

                                                                #136
                                                                BIG DADDY. Just jump in line with the 2 newbees your blasting. None of you read this thread. This isnt a situation where BP just "lost this guys $$". He was dealing with an agent and a 3rd party. The problem is not only being misinformed but not reading. Dont post if you havent even read the thread. Or at the very least the original post for crying out loud.
                                                                Comment
                                                                • BigdaddyQH
                                                                  SBR Posting Legend
                                                                  • 07-13-09
                                                                  • 19530

                                                                  #137
                                                                  Fishface. I read the entire post. I understand that there was a middle man, or to be more precise, a few middle people involved. Why this guy just did not take the time to get the money himself is beyond me. But the fact of the matter is this. People who deal with off shore books are dealing with people who reside and work in another country. This drastically reduces their options to get disputs settled. A lawsuit would be frivolous. What people who wager off shore are doing could technically be considered illegal. I have no idea who is at fault here, nor do I care. What the poster is talking about is a criminal offense, as well as a civil offense in this country, but in Costa Rica? I am not aware of their laws, so I have no idea.

                                                                  All I am saying is that when you deal with people in a foreign country, you are opening yourself up to incidents like the one posted in here. You are severely limiting your options. When I make a wager at a Vegas sports book, I am issued a ticket. If I win, I turn in my ticket and immediately get my money. If I lose, I keep the ticket for tax writeoff purposes. It is that simple. Unfortunately that is not the way things work with offshore books. They can, and do reduce limits at random, with no advanced warning. They can question any wager made. They can refuse to pay out winning wagers for any number of reasons, be they legit or not. They aparently can change the rules in the middle of an event. Unless you have a complete and total set of updated rules for the book you are dealing with, you are basically at their mercy.

                                                                  The sheer number of complaints in this site speaks volumes of the problems that people have with off shore books. With little or no recourse, players are opening themselves to getting screwed. This is alarming. It is tough enough to try and squeeze out some winnings. Having to pay to remove that money from a legitimate account, or making sure that a winning wager was actually a legitimate wager and was paid, goes way too far. All I am saying is that if you play in these books, you are at their mercy. They have your money. You have very limited recourses. Caviat Emptor.
                                                                  Comment
                                                                  • BigDaddy
                                                                    SBR Hall of Famer
                                                                    • 02-01-06
                                                                    • 8378

                                                                    #138
                                                                    seems this family of books is in trouble.
                                                                    Comment
                                                                    • ShamsWoof10
                                                                      SBR MVP
                                                                      • 11-15-06
                                                                      • 4827

                                                                      #139
                                                                      Originally posted by BigdaddyQH
                                                                      You are breaking the law. Got it? The feds could nail each and everyone of you if they chose to. The feds can close down operations in any of these books in this country if they choose to. You are powerless.
                                                                      NO I DON'T GOT IT because according to MOST U.S. state laws it is NOT illegal to place a wager offshore and nothing in the Fed. law that states it is either... There are a few states where it does and some books will NOT allow you to sign up if you reside in those states...

                                                                      GOT IT!!!?????????????
                                                                      Comment
                                                                      • BigdaddyQH
                                                                        SBR Posting Legend
                                                                        • 07-13-09
                                                                        • 19530

                                                                        #140
                                                                        It is not illegal to place a wager, but it IS illegal to transfer the funds. You had better learn the law. Like so many of you guys who think that they are Monday Morning Lawyers, you guys think you know it all. The entire Federal Government's case against off shore books and their customers rests with banking laws. If it were not illegal, why do you have to go through an entire song and dance to make a depoist, or withdrawl? A federal agent could arrest you tomorow if he chose to. All they have to do is have probable cause to hack into your computer, see if you made any types of deposits into an of shore book, and you are nailed. If you have won money, the IRS has your tail unless you declared it. While this is rarely done, it IS done.

                                                                        While some of you guys blindly brag about your winnings, there are a few people who read all of these posts, hack into your computer to see if what you say is legit, and if so, report you to the IRS for tax evasion. If convicted, or if a deal is made, they get 10% of what the feds collect. That is why I always suggest that no one ever talks about specifics when it comes to money. You have absolutely NO privacy on a computer. The feds can hack into your computer whenever they wish. So can thousands of hackers out there. It's the pits, but get used to it. It will only get worse. Big Brother is watching you.
                                                                        Comment
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