BetPhoenix... I wish...

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  • Justin7
    SBR Hall of Famer
    • 07-31-06
    • 8577

    #1
    BetPhoenix... I wish...
    You would let me play unhindered. When I used to play at your site daily, I watched your management improvements closely. I could see improvements in CS, risk management, and other areas.

    Sadly, I have had the "sharp axe" drop on my neck. Lower limits, -110 pricing, delays. I understand the need to do this from a profitability point of view. The secondary consequence though is that I no longer shop at BP. It's not worth my time to probe for weaknesses, and identify improvements or shortcomings.

    BP's business model is a mixed bag. It allows high limits for new players with low juice. This is the equivalent of an RSVP invitation to pro players to join. When BP identifies these players, BP eventually takes countermeasures to discourage these players. If BP wants to be a recreational book, why does it do things to draw professionals? If it wants to be a professional book, why does it toss its core playeres?

    I hope I can play at BP again. Any reliable shop (and I have no worries about my money here) offering -105 lines is a huge asset for pro players. But why, or why have you forsaken me when other pros come back again and again?
  • magynuck
    SBR Wise Guy
    • 09-17-09
    • 891

    #2
    Nice to know not just me.
    Comment
    • Johnpoints
      SBR Sharp
      • 10-20-09
      • 314

      #3
      Originally posted by Justin7
      You would let me play unhindered. When I used to play at your site daily, I watched your management improvements closely. I could see improvements in CS, risk management, and other areas.

      Sadly, I have had the "sharp axe" drop on my neck. Lower limits, -110 pricing, delays. I understand the need to do this from a profitability point of view. The secondary consequence though is that I no longer shop at BP. It's not worth my time to probe for weaknesses, and identify improvements or shortcomings.

      BP's business model is a mixed bag. It allows high limits for new players with low juice. This is the equivalent of an RSVP invitation to pro players to join. When BP identifies these players, BP eventually takes countermeasures to discourage these players. If BP wants to be a recreational book, why does it do things to draw professionals? If it wants to be a professional book, why does it toss its core playeres?

      I hope I can play at BP again. Any reliable shop (and I have no worries about my money here) offering -105 lines is a huge asset for pro players. But why, or why have you forsaken me when other pros come back again and again?
      Brilliantly said Justin. It almost seems like BP is still "learning" the nuisances of bringing in and retaining all types of customers, not just the squares.
      Comment
      • JoshW
        SBR MVP
        • 08-10-05
        • 3431

        #4
        Thought they could make money booking everyone, learned they can't? Risk management, kicking out winning players, has kept a lot of books very profitable that otherwise would have no chance of staying in business.
        Comment
        • Dark Horse
          SBR Posting Legend
          • 12-14-05
          • 13764

          #5
          Originally posted by Justin7
          ...why have you forsaken me ...?
          I think it goes on like this:

          "forgive them, for they know not what they do..."
          Comment
          • 20Four7
            SBR Hall of Famer
            • 04-08-07
            • 6703

            #6
            Justin complaining when he helped create the current situation........ you reap what you sow justin.
            Comment
            • Thremp
              SBR MVP
              • 07-23-07
              • 2067

              #7
              Pretty much. There is so delicious irony in this. But the answer is pretty clear. They're not a book catering to professionals/everyone/Europeans/etc. They're a recreational book that SBR has been pumping hard who started with an absurd number of flaws and now just has a ton of flaws.
              Comment
              • Frank
                SBR Wise Guy
                • 10-13-07
                • 918

                #8
                I think its clear that they are a recreational book. I don't understand why people need them to admit it publicly.

                Justin, maybe you need to decide if you going to be a player or a book consultant.

                MY BOOKIE IS NOT MY FRIEND

                Repeat that 20 times a day until you understand.
                Comment
                • BigDaddy
                  SBR Hall of Famer
                  • 02-01-06
                  • 8378

                  #9
                  this is one funny thread.

                  LOL!
                  Comment
                  • OSUCOWBOYS
                    SBR High Roller
                    • 10-26-07
                    • 241

                    #10
                    I have found them quite accommodating. They were doing the "air moves" on me until I called and complained. They stopped doing that after my call.

                    I have found they dont mind me "fixing" their numbers for a nickel or so. You try to bet more and you are charging them too much to help them get the number "right".

                    Allowing players to have 2-3% +EV, for a nickel or so, seems to be a fair price for sharps acting as lines managers. Limit bets charge them too much.

                    My .02
                    Comment
                    • moonbeam
                      SBR MVP
                      • 03-02-07
                      • 1496

                      #11
                      my limits are also lowered from 5.000 to 500 plus a time delay. but they are still good for me as long as they don´t start to void bets for no reason
                      Comment
                      • katstale
                        SBR MVP
                        • 02-07-07
                        • 3924

                        #12
                        Originally posted by OSUCOWBOYS
                        I have found them quite accommodating. They were doing the "air moves" on me until I called and complained. They stopped doing that after my call.

                        I have found they dont mind me "fixing" their numbers for a nickel or so. You try to bet more and you are charging them too much to help them get the number "right".

                        Allowing players to have 2-3% +EV, for a nickel or so, seems to be a fair price for sharps acting as lines managers. Limit bets charge them too much.

                        My .02

                        this
                        Comment
                        • moonbeam
                          SBR MVP
                          • 03-02-07
                          • 1496

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Justin7
                          (and I have no worries about my money here)
                          Why do you have no worries Justin? I have a lot of money there and I´m getting a bit nervous about this. max 4.000 per week?
                          Comment
                          • durito
                            SBR Posting Legend
                            • 07-03-06
                            • 13173

                            #14
                            I dont bet more than $500 there often and as such have kept normal limits (except props which im at $50) and -105. My delay seems longer than before but whayever.
                            Comment
                            • hhsilver
                              SBR Hall of Famer
                              • 06-07-07
                              • 7375

                              #15
                              what are "air moves" as mentioned by osucowbpys?
                              Comment
                              • Fishhead
                                SBR Aristocracy
                                • 08-11-05
                                • 40179

                                #16
                                Originally posted by Justin7
                                You would let me play unhindered. When I used to play at your site daily, I watched your management improvements closely. I could see improvements in CS, risk management, and other areas.

                                Sadly, I have had the "sharp axe" drop on my neck. Lower limits, -110 pricing, delays. I understand the need to do this from a profitability point of view. The secondary consequence though is that I no longer shop at BP. It's not worth my time to probe for weaknesses, and identify improvements or shortcomings.

                                BP's business model is a mixed bag. It allows high limits for new players with low juice. This is the equivalent of an RSVP invitation to pro players to join. When BP identifies these players, BP eventually takes countermeasures to discourage these players. If BP wants to be a recreational book, why does it do things to draw professionals? If it wants to be a professional book, why does it toss its core playeres?

                                I hope I can play at BP again. Any reliable shop (and I have no worries about my money here) offering -105 lines is a huge asset for pro players. But why, or why have you forsaken me when other pros come back again and again?


                                Why is this??
                                Comment
                                • moonbeam
                                  SBR MVP
                                  • 03-02-07
                                  • 1496

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by durito
                                  I dont bet more than $500 there often and as such have kept normal limits (except props which im at $50) and -105. My delay seems longer than before but whayever.
                                  I think time delay is not the problem (I guess for me it´s roundabout 8-10 seconds)
                                  Comment
                                  • John Dough
                                    SBR MVP
                                    • 09-21-05
                                    • 1785

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by hhsilver
                                    what are "air moves" as mentioned by osucowbpys?
                                    Moving lines just b/c the screen (i.e. other books) is moving, not waiting for actual bets to come in to move the line.
                                    Comment
                                    • OSUCOWBOYS
                                      SBR High Roller
                                      • 10-26-07
                                      • 241

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by hhsilver
                                      what are "air moves" as mentioned by osucowbpys?
                                      Moving the line/vig against me without the market moving. Essentially taking 2-3% of EV off the table on those "air moves". They got the picture after I declined every "adjusted price" and called and complained.

                                      Example: It is a Wednesday afternoon, I would play an NFL game that that goes Sunday, Team X +4 -110 and the line would move to +3.5 or +4 -120 before the confirmation screen. The market isnt moving the line, they are, with the intention of trying to improve their position on that event.
                                      Comment
                                      • hhsilver
                                        SBR Hall of Famer
                                        • 06-07-07
                                        • 7375

                                        #20
                                        Thanks , so they single you out because they fear you? despicable .... I'm glad you never take the new line and complained.
                                        Comment
                                        • Dr.Gonzo
                                          SBR MVP
                                          • 12-05-09
                                          • 4660

                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by Fishhead
                                          Why is this??


                                          He has $ there and doesn't want to cause a stampede
                                          Comment
                                          • Fishhead
                                            SBR Aristocracy
                                            • 08-11-05
                                            • 40179

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by Dr.Gonzo


                                            He has $ there and doesn't want to cause a stampede


                                            Comment
                                            • Dank_Fire
                                              SBR MVP
                                              • 05-13-09
                                              • 2269

                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by hhsilver
                                              Thanks , so they single you out because they fear you? despicable .... I'm glad you never take the new line and complained.
                                              Just one of many tactics books use to clamp down on sharper players
                                              Comment
                                              • wisky
                                                SBR Sharp
                                                • 11-04-09
                                                • 458

                                                #24
                                                How long is the delay for bets when you are put on delay. Seconds or more ?
                                                Comment
                                                • tltaylor89
                                                  SBR Posting Legend
                                                  • 06-19-09
                                                  • 19610

                                                  #25
                                                  Average delay is about 6 seconds
                                                  Comment
                                                  • BET THE HOOK
                                                    SBR MVP
                                                    • 02-16-09
                                                    • 1947

                                                    #26
                                                    I normally come to the rescue when people bash BP but I am so pissed right now at Phil that I almost closed my accounts at BP,BetMania, and WagerChief. Richard tries hard to build relationships and Phil pisses on them.
                                                    Comment
                                                    • BigDaddy
                                                      SBR Hall of Famer
                                                      • 02-01-06
                                                      • 8378

                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by wisky
                                                      How long is the delay for bets when you are put on delay. Seconds or more ?
                                                      ask fishhead i'm sure he can tell you
                                                      Comment
                                                      • tltaylor89
                                                        SBR Posting Legend
                                                        • 06-19-09
                                                        • 19610

                                                        #28
                                                        Ohh how fast the money leaks get plugged
                                                        Comment
                                                        • Tomato
                                                          SBR MVP
                                                          • 01-29-09
                                                          • 1251

                                                          #29
                                                          So you're saying you wish a recreational book would conduct it's business like a professional book?

                                                          Tomato doesn't understand the point of this thread.
                                                          Comment
                                                          • warriorfan707
                                                            SBR Posting Legend
                                                            • 03-29-08
                                                            • 13698

                                                            #30
                                                            BP Wraps itself around my dick
                                                            Comment
                                                            • tltaylor89
                                                              SBR Posting Legend
                                                              • 06-19-09
                                                              • 19610

                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by Tomato
                                                              So you're saying you wish a recreational book would conduct it's business like a professional book?

                                                              Tomato doesn't understand the point of this thread.
                                                              He uses Pinny I dont get why he is trying to play at all the books
                                                              Comment
                                                              • Vince Lombardi
                                                                SBR Wise Guy
                                                                • 11-23-08
                                                                • 841

                                                                #32
                                                                Originally posted by moonbeam
                                                                I think time delay is not the problem (I guess for me it´s roundabout 8-10 seconds)
                                                                What delay? The betting software a problem?
                                                                Comment
                                                                • Johnny 55
                                                                  Restricted User
                                                                  • 05-16-09
                                                                  • 1079

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Vince, time to enter the 21st century.
                                                                  Comment
                                                                  • moonbeam
                                                                    SBR MVP
                                                                    • 03-02-07
                                                                    • 1496

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Originally posted by Vince Lombardi
                                                                    What delay? The betting software a problem?
                                                                    I have no problem with this 10 seconds delay Vince.

                                                                    But I doubt about their payouts.

                                                                    4000 max payout per week isn´t that much, and phoenix counts one week as 11 days
                                                                    Comment
                                                                    • RogueScholar
                                                                      SBR Hall of Famer
                                                                      • 02-05-07
                                                                      • 5082

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Originally posted by Fishhead
                                                                      Why is this??
                                                                      Because unlike your beloved Matchbook, Fishbrains, BetPho has shown an uncompromising commitment to profitability as a business model. They scrimp on almost every aspect but making sure that the dollars flow in the door faster than they fly out. That's the definition of a safe book to play at, provided that they deal fair with you.
                                                                      Originally posted by StraitShooter
                                                                      90% of the guys dont give a shit about your problems..and the other 10 are glad you have them..
                                                                      Comment
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