Nitrogen Sports Rollover

[Jared Brooks]

Last week I funded a Nitrogen account for the first time. The staff at Nitrogen is telling me that I must meet a 1x rollover before being allowed to withdraw.

I wasn't aware of this before depositing. I don't like keeping significant money in crypto due to volatility/currency risk. I won't even be able to meet the rollover for a long time due to mass cancellation of sporting events related to the COVID-19 mess.

Anyone have experience/wisdom/guidance to share here? Raiders?

[Optional]

It's genuinely normal for books to require risking money 1x before withdrawing.

It discourages money launderers using the book as a mixer, and bringing heat on the book itself.


Its not a normal rollover usually though. You can risk it on -4000 shots and it should still count.

[Jared Brooks]

It's genuinely normal for books to require risking money 1x before withdrawing.

It discourages money launderers using the book as a mixer, and bringing heat on the book itself.


Its not a normal rollover usually though. You can risk it on -4000 shots and it should still count.

I'm wondering if this is standard practice for Nitrogen or if it's an account-by-account thing.

Last week, I deposited to Fairlay not realizing that Fairlay would charge a commission on the markets I wanted to bet on (I've never used them before). Since I didn't want to pay the commission, I initiated a withdrawal of the entire balance, which was over $35k, without placing a single bet. Fairlay allowed me to withdraw the entire balance quickly in two pieces. Bravo to Fairlay.

[Optional]

I'm wondering if this is standard practice for Nitrogen or if it's an account-by-account thing.

Last week, I deposited to Fairlay not realizing that Fairlay would charge a commission on the markets I wanted to bet on (I've never used them before). Since I didn't want to pay the commission, I initiated a withdrawal of the entire balance, which was over $35k, without placing a single bet. Fairlay allowed me to withdraw the entire balance quickly in two pieces. Bravo to Fairlay.

Oh wow.

I am shocked to hear Fairlay still do that.


I'll wait for someone else who knows about this to tell you the story of Degen1

[Jared Brooks]

Oh wow.

I am shocked to hear Fairlay still do that.


I'll wait for someone else who knows about this to tell you the story of Degen1

Looking forward to hearing the story.

The Nitrogen thing is probably my fault for not checking the rules, but I think it's pretty unreasonable that they're just going to hold my money for months while it's pretty much impossible for me to meet the rollover. I think the right thing to do for them is to make an exception to the rollover requirement while the virus is shutting everything down. Not holding my breath.

As for Fairlay, their F.A.Q. makes no mention of any rollover.

[Optional]

Oops I got the name wrong.

Betg was the poster who had his deposit taken for depositing and withdrawing without betting, then being accused of money laundering.

Degen1 was a different problem there.

[Optional]

As for Fairlay, their F.A.Q. makes no mention of any rollover.

Nitrogen does

5. Minimum Action

Users hereby agree that all deposits will be initiated with the sole intention of providing action on any of our services (sportsbook, casino and/or poker). Therefore, all deposits carry a one-time (1X) rollover requirement before users can withdraw (full or partial deposit amount). Funds that do no complete minimum action cannot be withdrawn.

https://nitrogensports.eu/n/rules

Again, I am a bit gob smacked that Fairlay still does not require it after all their BS about wanting to stop ML.

[Jared Brooks]

Nitrogen does

You had to log in to see the rules, correct? That's why I'm wondering if the rules vary for different accounts.

[TonyPhizzle]

So you deposited 35k at a book you never play at before? Right.....

[Jared Brooks]

So you deposited 35k at a book you never play at before? Right.....

Yes. Welcome to SBR. There are a lot of players here much bigger than I.

I'll happily re-load even more with Fairlay if they will cut down on the commissions for the sports I play. Currently 0.4% and that's too much for me.

[im over here now]

Should have read tos before dumping 35k to some online company in a 3rd world shit hole country..

In saying that Nitrogen cash outs for me are flawless.. Clock work.. 45 mins after request it’s there...

Nitrogen besides in game and occasional crash is solid A+ plus book..

No worries for you if not scamming

[PD77]

why all of the sudden would you try out “new” bitcoin only sportbooks, in the middle of a pandemic, if you “don’t like to keep significant money in crypto due to volatility/currency risk”? Do you immediately convert bitcoin to fiat currency after you withdraw and fiat to bitcoin when you deposit? Sounds like you and degen1 have a lot in common.

[Jared Brooks]

Should have read tos before dumping 35k to some online company in a 3rd world shit hole country..

Yes, I already wrote that above.

In saying that Nitrogen cash outs for me are flawless.. Clock work.. 45 mins after request it’s there...

The question was: does your account have a 1x rollover required of it? If yes, is this the case for all Nitrogen accounts?

No worries for you if not scamming

I doubt my money is going to end up missing. Currency risk is a concern, obviously.

[Jared Brooks]

why all of the sudden would you try out “new” bitcoin only sportbooks

It's something I have been thinking about for a couple years now. Limits at the "normal" offshores are becoming burdensome.

in the middle of a pandemic

Didn't seem relevant.

if you “don’t like to keep significant money in crypto due to volatility/currency risk”?

I thought I could deposit a little more than I expected to bet (leaving a "cushion" in case I wanted to bet more), then withdraw after the sporting event ended. I thought Nitrogen was like Fairlay and didn't have any rollover requirement.

Do you immediately convert bitcoin to fiat currency after you withdraw and fiat to bitcoin when you deposit?

Of course. I'm not interested in holding highly volatile and unpredictable cryptocurrencies. I prefer to hold USD or other fiat. Many many bettors are the same.

[themike78]

What I don't understand is why someone would deposit to a book and not wager the money? What's the point of even making a deposit if you don't risk it at least once? Very strange.

[PD77]

You must have better conversion rates than most and be outside of the US. Good luck Jared, to think about something for a couple of years and pick last week to execute it was an interesting move on your part.

[Jared Brooks]

What I don't understand is why someone would deposit to a book and not wager the money? What's the point of even making a deposit if you don't risk it at least once? Very strange.

Think about it. A sporting event is coming up on Saturday night. Depending on how the lines move, you might want to bet, or maybe not. In order to be ready for line movement, you fund the account earlier in the day on Saturday.

The event happens but nothing really excites you. You could leave the money there, but bitcoin is crazy volatile so you want to cash out quickly and exchange for fiat.

[Jared Brooks]

You must have better conversion rates than most

No, just a bit of good timing to make sure I never lose on a conversion. Again, I've been in fiat for years and trying to branch out into crypto books where conversions will be a lot more common.

Good luck Jared

Thanks PD77.

to think about something for a couple of years and pick last week to execute it was an interesting move on your part.

Circumstances forcing it. Limits too low elsewhere and need to expand. If you're saying Nitrogen might have been more lenient if there wasn't a silly bat flu going around, yeah you might be right.

[Optional]

You had to log in to see the rules, correct? That's why I'm wondering if the rules vary for different accounts.

I did, but the issue has been brought up before and I am as certain as I can be from outside that it's actually enforced on everyone there.

If they do not do this, the book attracts people who are trying to wash money, and that brings unwanted US law enforcement attention.


There are well known options out there that do look the other way (but charge hefty fees), and don't care about LE attention. But both these books do care as far as I understand it.

Fairlay sure made a song and dance about caring about it during both those complaint cases. Which is why I am so surprised they do not have that term posted now, after trying to enforce it on BetG so hard, and then re-iterating they stood by that position when it was brought up again during discussions over Degen1..

[Jared Brooks]

I did, but the issue has been brought up before and I am as certain as I can be from outside that it's actually enforced on everyone there.

If they do not do this, the book attracts people who are trying to wash money, and that brings unwanted US law enforcement attention.


There are well known options out there that do look the other way (but charge hefty fees), and don't care about LE attention. But both these books do care as far as I understand it.

Fairlay sure made a song and dance about caring about it during both those complaint cases. Which is why I am so surprised they do not have that term posted now, after trying to enforce it on BetG so hard, and then re-iterating they stood by that position when it was brought up again during discussions over Degen1..

Yeah, all that makes sense.

Is there any other major book out there which doesn't post its TOS publicly though? Bookmaker, 5Dimes, Pinnacle, Fairlay, and every other book I've seen posts their rules publicly. It's strange that Nitrogen requires a login. Again, this was my own error, but I would have been much more likely to notice the rollover condition if it had been posted publicly instead of requiring a login with 2FA.

[DontTailMe]

It's genuinely normal for books to require risking money 1x before withdrawing.

It discourages money launderers using the book as a mixer, and bringing heat on the book itself.


Its not a normal rollover usually though. You can risk it on -4000 shots and it should still count.

I agree that this is the way it should be. I just wanted to point out that I'm finding that this is gradually becoming the exception rather than the rule. More and more, offshore books are switching over to traditional bonus rollover rules (i.e. lesser of risk/win amounts) for their 1X deposit play through.

Edit: To be clear, I'm talking in general, not nitrogen specifically.

[Optional]

I agree that this is the way it should be. I just wanted to point out that I'm finding that this is gradually becoming the exception rather than the rule. More and more, offshore books are switching over to traditional bonus rollover rules (i.e. lesser of risk/win amounts) for their 1X deposit play through.

Edit: To be clear, I'm talking in general, not nitrogen specifically.

Yeah, I've seen books object to people who do the -4000 bet thing too.

Most of the time it is because the person is doing it multiple times and its still obvious they are washing money and not betting really.

But some managers seem to want to use it to get more action out of people too. I'm not sure they all understand the real of point of it sometimes.

[DontTailMe]

Yeah, I've seen books object to people who do the -4000 bet thing too.

Most of the time it is because the person is doing it multiple times and its still obvious they are washing money and not betting really.

But some managers seem to want to use it to get more action out of people too. I'm not sure they all understand the real of point of it sometimes.

Oh, I'm not even talking about managers rejecting payout requests because someone bet a -4000 line. For example, one book I recently tried to request a payout at wouldn't let me because this logic was coded into their system. So if you deposited and then bet it all on a -150 line or something, that wouldn't be sufficient to hit the 1X play through. They're totally starting to use this as an excuse to drive more action.

[Jared Brooks]

Betcoin.ag, Cloudbet, Fairlay Have No Rollover Requirement For Non-bonus Accounts

Hello everyone.

Since Nitrogen Sports decided to lock down my funds on the grounds that I had not met a 1x rollover, I decided to check out the situation with Nitrogen's main competitors in the bitcoin-only space. I hope the information I collect here can help others in the sports betting community.

Here is what I have found so far. I will update as I get more information.


Fairlay

No rollover requirement whatsoever. I can personally attest to this as I deposited about $35k with them before realizing that their commissions on the sports I play are too high. I was allowed to withdraw the full balance at a rate of 5 XBT/day. You can also check their FAQ, which makes no mention of a rollover. Bravo to Fairlay.


Betcoin.ag

No rollover requirement.

I just chatted with "Aidan" from Betcoin.ag support. Here is the full conversation:

Me: Do you impose a 1x rollover on sports betting accounts which do not take any bonuses?

Aidan (betcoin.ag): Hello, give me a moment to check with management please.

Aidan (betcoin.ag): As long there is no bonus claimed, there is no such rollover

Cloudbet



No rollover requirement.

I just chatted with "Sue" from Cloudbet. Here are the relevant parts of the conversation:

Me: If a sports betting account does not take any bonuses, will there still be a 1x rollover required on all deposited funds?

Sue (Cloudbet): You will only have rollover requirement on bonuses.

Sue (Cloudbet): depend of your bonuses the rollover requirement is 30x

Me: If I do not take any bonuses, there will be no rollover requirement. Correct?

Sue (Cloudbet): Yes.

Sue (Cloudbet): That's correct.

[Jared Brooks]

Note also that Cloudbet's Terms and Conditions and Betcoin's support page make no mention of rollovers except for those taking bonuses.

[littlekona]

Note also that Cloudbet's Terms and Conditions and Betcoin's support page make no mention of rollovers except for those taking bonuses.

they may not have a "rollover" listed but they all have AML terms and in turn may ask for a KYC. An occasional one I can see but if it is repeated many many times like Mr.Betg did @ Fairlay you are Red Flagging yourself and asking for potential questions

[Jared Brooks]

they may not have a "rollover" listed but they all have AML terms and in turn may ask for a KYC. An occasional one I can see but if it is repeated many many times like Mr.Betg did @ Fairlay you are Red Flagging yourself and asking for potential questions

Their customer service told me explicitly that they have zero rollover. Their terms also make no mention of it.

Yes, books can ask for a KYC to try to pin one identity onto one account. In my view, this is extremely unlikely to allow them to identify money launderers. It seems more likely to be used as an excuse to delay/deny payouts. A rollover also doesn't do much to stop money laundering.

[DontTailMe]

Yeah, I would not advertise this as a feature that anyone should be looking to take advantage of. It will come back to bite you in the end.

[Jared Brooks]

Yeah, I would not advertise this as a feature that anyone should be looking to take advantage of. It will come back to bite you in the end.

How so?

I think it's an important feature for people who don't want to hold bitcoin for long periods of time. Load up your account before the event, then withdraw the full balance afterward and exchange back to fiat.

[mrpapageorgio]

How so?

I think it's an important feature for people who don't want to hold bitcoin for long periods of time. Load up your account before the event, then withdraw the full balance afterward and exchange back to fiat.

Why not just hold the crypto in a stable coin like USDC (USDT I know has its controversies) then convert it to Bitcoin when you're ready if you're worried about volatility?

[DontTailMe]

How so?

I think it's an important feature for people who don't want to hold bitcoin for long periods of time. Load up your account before the event, then withdraw the full balance afterward and exchange back to fiat.

Because they're not going to keep letting you do it. I'm pretty sure that at least 1 or 2 of your examples are mistakes, not policy. And the ones which aren't a mistake will quickly shut it down if people like you start abusing it.

You can't honestly believe they invite this sort of behavior.

[mrpapageorgio]

Because they're not going to keep letting you do it. I'm pretty sure that at least 1 or 2 of your examples are mistakes, not policy. And the ones which aren't a mistake will quickly shut it down if people like you start abusing it.

You can't honestly believe they invite this sort of behavior.

There's a famous thread here of a user who kept depositing Bitcoin and withdrawing from Fairlay (he did it like 40+ times before they caught on) until they had enough and demanded KYC before they'd let him withdraw because he was washing his Bitcoin with the way Fairlay works. IIRC they confiscated his funds.

[Jared Brooks]

Why not just hold the crypto in a stable coin like USDC (USDT I know has its controversies) then convert it to Bitcoin when you're ready if you're worried about volatility?

Right, but that's not the issue. The issue is you can't deposit to these books (Nitrogen, Fairlay, Cloudbet, Betcoin) with USDC. At most they'll take XBT, BCH, and ETH. So as long as they keep your money, you're subject to wild swings in the price of the coin. That's why Nitrogen's rollover requirement can be so dangerous. If it turns out you didn't want to bet your full deposit amount, Nitrogen will demand to keep the difference between what you bet and what you deposited until you can find a chance to bet it.

Especially during this COVID-19 situation with the broad shutdown of the sports world, this requirement is pretty extreme.

[mrpapageorgio]

Right, but that's not the issue. The issue is you can't deposit to these books (Nitrogen, Fairlay, Cloudbet, Betcoin) with USDC. At most they'll take XBT, BCH, and ETH. So as long as they keep your money, you're subject to wild swings in the price of the coin. That's why Nitrogen's rollover requirement can be so dangerous. If it turns out you didn't want to bet your full deposit amount, Nitrogen will demand to keep the difference between what you bet and what you deposited until you can find a chance to bet it.

Especially during this COVID-19 situation with the broad shutdown of the sports world, this requirement is pretty extreme.

Books are not exchanges or banks, nor do they want to be. Hence why they put in the 1x requirement. If someone is depositing more than they might want to bet, then maybe they should deposit less and if they want to bet more, deposit more and act accordingly. This has worked fine until this extreme situation has thrown the sports betting world into a loop. I agree most books should allow withdrawals for people who deposited shortly before the NBA shut down, but this is an exception.

Books assume when you're depositing, it's to place action at their book. It costs money for them to keep sending your Bitcoin back if you change your mind. At one point, it cost as much as $20 to send bitcoin to another user because the mempool was so jammed. Betcoin and Cloudbet will likely change their tune once they see someone making frequent transfers back and forth without placing a bet and costing them money in transfer fees to withdraw.

[Jared Brooks]

I'm pretty sure that at least 1 or 2 of your examples are mistakes, not policy.

So these books' customer support staff are putting out incorrect information?

You can't honestly believe they invite this sort of behavior.

"This behavior" meaning "depositing before the event and withdrawing more than the amount risked after the event"?

I think forbidding this behavior makes the book less appealing to a lot of bettors. Three of the four books I queried allow this behavior.