William Hill, suspending account and winnings/deposit

[Optional]

I agree with you Cashin, while I have no idea if the match in question was manipulated , I believe it is very harsh on WH's part to generalize and not pay out everyone that bet on this match

In 90% of cases like this (and there is a lot of them) your bet is frozen whilst the investigation happens (9 to 15 months sort of timeframe for most) but your account is not frozen.

[cashin81]

If WH suspect you are involved in money laundering, match fixing or gambling with the proceeds of crime they are required to freeze funds, report it and tell the player nothing more.

The OP needs to liase with the regulator as no one else can help.

@Mr247 please PM your WH account ID and I'll try to get Gibraltar to respond to you.

We arent talking about money laundering or proceeds of crime. (from the facts so far)
What Im saying is if someone bets $200 @14.00, on a suspect game, you cant decide hes a criminal just on this.

They will not say everyone who bet this game is a criminal. Thats not enough evidence to report someone, and even if the match was fixed - there is the benefit of doubt.
Hey there probably is more to the story and I dont mean he should be paid in full, but to take the deposit and be labelled a "criminal" cant be fair.

I asked where you are from just because books can be more difficult with some countries.

[Optional]

What Im saying is if someone bets $200 @14.00, on a suspect game, you cant decide hes a criminal just on this.

They don't based on that. 99% of people who get caught out betting on a match that ends up being reported for suspect betting patterns get their money eventually. Including winnings. And don't have their account suspended over it.

[mr247]

We arent talking about money laundering or proceeds of crime. (from the facts so far)
What Im saying is if someone bets $200 @14.00, on a suspect game, you cant decide hes a criminal just on this.

They will not say everyone who bet this game is a criminal. Thats not enough evidence to report someone, and even if the match was fixed - there is the benefit of doubt.
Hey there probably is more to the story and I dont mean he should be paid in full, but to take the deposit and be labelled a "criminal" cant be fair.

I asked where you are from just because books can be more difficult with some countries.

Agree with you 100%. and yeah so i've heard that they can be more difficult with some countries.

What you are saying is exactly my point. Nobody knows if this match was fixed or not, but labeling everyone who bet on the match as a criminal is weird to say the least. On top of that, holding the deposit...

[cashin81]

They don't based on that. 99% of people who get caught out betting on a match that ends up being reported for suspect betting patterns get their money eventually. Including winnings. And don't have their account suspended over it.

"And if WilliamHill have already said they are confiscating both your deposit and winnings then they think you are a criminal and are not waiting for any sort of decision. They've decided."

Maybe I just misunderstood this.

From the facts given, I side with the OP - it doesnt seem fair.

[Optional]

I wasn't siding with anyone. Just explaining what it meant if they held his balance and locked the account.

[mr247]

"And if WilliamHill have already said they are confiscating both your deposit and winnings then they think you are a criminal and are not waiting for any sort of decision. They've decided."

Maybe I just misunderstood this.

From the facts given, I side with the OP - it doesnt seem fair.

Appreciate the support cashin81, but I also initially misunderstood Optional's statement earlier in the thread. Since then, he has been nothing but helpful.

Let's just hope this gets solved soon..

[mr247]

Received a negative reply from the Gambling Commissioner for releasing my funds as there is currently an investigation....

[Optional]

Received a negative reply from the Gambling Commissioner for releasing my funds as there is currently an investigation....

At least you know it's really being investigated I guess. And now have a direct contact at the regulator for the future to follow up if WillHill wont answer.

[mr247]

Yes that is true.

Does the regulator have a reputation with siding with the companies? I dont know why i have a feeling they work hand in hand..

[piterp]

Investigation is strong word but will hill in fact have not power to do investigation because they are only bookmaker they can only wait for respond from tennis body respond for this match

[mr247]

Investigation is indeed a strong word, probably used as a scare tactic by these bookmakers. However the Commissioner did confirm that there was an investigation underway. What I dont understand, is how initially, there was an investigation with the other bookies, and within 2 weeks it was done and customers of other bookmakers got paid out, while WH customers did not....

[Optional]

Yes that is true.

Does the regulator have a reputation with siding with the companies? I dont know why i have a feeling they work hand in hand..

Well they are funded by the license fees of the books than can attract to be licensed there... so yeah there is an inbuilt conflict of interest in the system.

But the Gibraltar regulator does usually take complaints seriously. They will always back the rules and they won't get into a combative argument with the book for you but they will address reasonable complaints and usually fairly.

Investigation is indeed a strong word, probably used as a scare tactic by these bookmakers. However the Commissioner did confirm that there was an investigation underway. What I dont understand, is how initially, there was an investigation with the other bookies, and within 2 weeks it was done and customers of other bookmakers got paid out, while WH customers did not....

Agree that WH have not treated you as they would most bettors in this situation. There must be something about your situation we don't know yet.

This is what the regulator would be most useful in trying to work out for you really.

[piterp]

If is no evidence of crime in this case and regulator not help you go straight to small claims court .

[BigdaddyQH]

There is no way he ca win in small claims court in another nation. No way. What you have to understand is that no matter what ANYONE tells you (and that includes SBR) the bettors have little, if any control over the situation. By the way, do you think that SBR gives away all of those "A" ratings for free. Guess again.

[piterp]

I paste somethink for you from newspaper
On that occasion, another online betting company refused – initially - to pay out £823,000 of the total winnings to Curley’s relatives.
After legal action was instigated, that company eventually paid out in full. Miss McCann has hired the same lawyer Andrew Montague, who represented Curley, to fight her case.

[piterp]

One more specially for BigdaddyQH

It is your lovely will hill in "A" ratings
hxxp://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/putnter-finally-gets-1k-winnings-9072294

[mr247]

Still nothing from WH 3 months later...

[mr247]

Currently 7 months after said event, and there has been absolutely no progression regarding this matter.

WH have consistently given me the same answer with no new developments whatsoever, how long can an investigation possibly take?

[SportsMushroom]

not defending william hill in any way, they should pay up


but people should avoid in the future to bet big on obscure markets, especially when the odds are long

[BlackRock]

I guess, from the score and the date that the match was:
Pablo Irigaray Guarne-Juan Lizariturry
1-6 , 6-1 , 6-0
Pablo Irigaray is ranked 1370 in the world
Juan Lizariturry is ranked 699 in the world

The game was a first round match from an ITF Tournament in Vic (near Barcelona).

Just entered this information as a matter of curiosity for the forum, not that I had any other or inside information.

[SportsMushroom]

I guess, from the score and the date that the match was:
Pablo Irigaray Guarne-Juan Lizariturry
1-6 , 6-1 , 6-0
Pablo Irigaray is ranked 1370 in the world
Juan Lizariturry is ranked 699 in the world

The game was a first round match from an ITF Tournament in Vic (near Barcelona).

Just entered this information as a matter of curiosity for the forum, not that I had any other or inside information.

good stuff, welcome to the forum

[captrobey]

How can anyone though actually know if a match was fixed or not. You bet on the next 2 sets and won. I have lost matches like that on a heavy favorite that won the first and went on to lose the next 2 sets. I try to steer clear of tennis because i always see some of the most insane crap go on there. Like a -800 guy winning the first set 6-0 then losing the next 2 sets . The only one i can remember actually proven to be fixed was the one woman who was winning then went over to her coach and in her own language started asking him should she throw the match now. There was a Mic that caught the whole thing and she got busted. I remember that being the only time people got their money back. Other then that though how can they prove anything? If you would have gone on to lose i sure as hell do not think you would have gotten your cash back.

[Optional]

How can anyone though actually know if a match was fixed or not.

Licensed books are supposed to report suspicious betting activity and wait to be told what they can do with bets placed on the match.

Bodies like the Euro Sports Betting Integrity unit (eu-ssa.org) do the deciding if it really is suspicious.

If they don't refer it to the next level (sport governing body) then the book may be allowed to payout bets within a few months. But in a lot cases it seems to take 12 months or longer. So I am assuming those are the ones that did go further.

It's tough to confirm anything as they don't want to give away any info about investigations or be seen to unfairly smear anyone.

In most cases I have seen the player does eventually get paid in the end no matter how long it takes.

[captrobey]

Licensed books are supposed to report suspicious betting activity and wait to be told what they can do with bets placed on the match.

Bodies like the Euro Sports Betting Integrity unit (eu-ssa.org) do the deciding if it really is suspicious.

If they don't refer it to the next level (sport governing body) then the book may be allowed to payout bets within a few months. But in a lot cases it seems to take 12 months or longer. So I am assuming those are the ones that did go further.

It's tough to confirm anything as they don't want to give away any info about investigations or be seen to unfairly smear anyone.

In most cases I have seen the player does eventually get paid in the end no matter how long it takes.

Yea but again even with an investigation short of a player admitting it was fixed or in on it how can anyone ever prove it. And i am sure if something suspicious ever happened against the player he would not get his money back . To me it just seems like an excuse to not play the player. It is like when they say recreational vs professional. How can anyone ever actually prove that. But i have seen players cheated out of winnings because of that excuse . And in tennis i swear i have lost to insane games like this before. Heavy Favorites that won the first set easily then ended up losing. More then once.

[mr247]

How can anyone though actually know if a match was fixed or not. You bet on the next 2 sets and won. I have lost matches like that on a heavy favorite that won the first and went on to lose the next 2 sets. I try to steer clear of tennis because i always see some of the most insane crap go on there. Like a -800 guy winning the first set 6-0 then losing the next 2 sets . The only one i can remember actually proven to be fixed was the one woman who was winning then went over to her coach and in her own language started asking him should she throw the match now. There was a Mic that caught the whole thing and she got busted. I remember that being the only time people got their money back. Other then that though how can they prove anything? If you would have gone on to lose i sure as hell do not think you would have gotten your cash back.

I find it to be an excuse as well, it has been over 7 months now and there has not been a single movement or update regarding the investigation apart from the generic message from WH.

As far as im concerned, this is all stalling tactics

[mr247]

Licensed books are supposed to report suspicious betting activity and wait to be told what they can do with bets placed on the match.

Bodies like the Euro Sports Betting Integrity unit (eu-ssa.org) do the deciding if it really is suspicious.

If they don't refer it to the next level (sport governing body) then the book may be allowed to payout bets within a few months. But in a lot cases it seems to take 12 months or longer. So I am assuming those are the ones that did go further.

It's tough to confirm anything as they don't want to give away any info about investigations or be seen to unfairly smear anyone.

In most cases I have seen the player does eventually get paid in the end no matter how long it takes.

Whats the longest you've seen a player wait to be paid?

[Optional]

Whats the longest you've seen a player wait to be paid?

A lot seem to get resolved in the 12 to 15 month range.

I can't think of any taking more than 18 months. But there may be ones that did not keep me updated.

[HeeeHAWWWW]

I guess, from the score and the date that the match was:
Pablo Irigaray Guarne-Juan Lizariturry
1-6 , 6-1 , 6-0

Very common method of fixing - the turnaround after losing the opener heavily. Combine with correctscore betting on every set, and it's a tidy profit.

[mr247]

Very common method of fixing - the turnaround after losing the opener heavily. Combine with correctscore betting on every set, and it's a tidy profit.

Isn't that the same as any other sports, such as football matches, and just saying in hindsight ' Oh correct score 3-1 ' with Player X Y Z as the scorers?

I dont understand how this is a common method of fixing, apart from inflating the odds heavily

[lonnie55]

Isn't that the same as any other sports, such as football matches, and just saying in hindsight ' Oh correct score 3-1 ' with Player X Y Z as the scorers?

I dont understand how this is a common method of fixing, apart from inflating the odds heavily

That's the reason.

[mr247]

That's the reason.

I guess I replied to myself there

[OVAKUL]

Can I ask if 'other players who got paid' on this match were WillHill players or players of another book? How certain are you this information is 100% correct?

[mr247]

Can I ask if 'other players who got paid' on this match were WillHill players or players of another book? How certain are you this information is 100% correct?

Players of another book. 100% certain as I saw the payout slip upon inquiring

[arie1985]

This is just terrible.

This is why you should never bet with them, use AsianConnect and bet with Pinnacle instead.

Wow, it's just terrible ... it's not like this guy has risked $200,000 ... he said 200 (GBP?), what's that today - less than $300 ?

How can they confiscate funds for so long?

I would suggest to the OP to take it to more forums and share his story in other places as well, you should hurt their reputation and do it aggressively. They deserve all the bad reputation they can get for doing this.