I have already talked to tony in the past and I was very respectful. He's the one who came off looking and acting like an ass! (u can see these convos on the other forum i posted at)I would not consider this a cc scam as tony failed to fulfill his obligations and follow his own posted rules, basically breaking a contract. If u pay for something and do not recieve it, u will void ur payment for that merchandise. Though I have received a payout I still feel I am owed more. Since there is no cooperation from tony, the only way I get any money owed is by doing a charge back. If this creates problems for me, then I would not do it. If it causes tony probs with his processor and that's all, well I really don't care and actually hope it would. I have the case filed with osga right now and feel good about them seriously looking into this, wich sbr definitely did not do. After that, depending on what happens, I have other outlets I'm pursuing that is far more serious and won't be good for tony and 5 dimes. Will see what comes of this though and ur right 900$ is to petty to even try to go after. I suppose he can keep it or turn it over to sbr for doing their job, wich is protecting the books and not the players as seen with the whole bet island fiasco!
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dan, you are being extremely naive if you think anyone will change this situation...you dont seem to understand that there is nothing sbr could have done and nothing that osga will do or trying to get lawyers or something like that will do...tony simply doesnt give a shit and feels you are the thief... i cant blame you for looking into things, but the second you decide to spend some money to hire someone for something, realize they cant do anything about it either and its money down the pisser...so think twice before wasting money...you are only going to cause yourself more headaches buddy...
not that it matters, because this is a done deal, but if you ever had the slimmest chance at negotiating with tony, i would keep the ridiculous threats towards him and his company out of your posts...Last edited by raydog; 12-22-12, 06:22 PM.Comment -
5dimes is a big scam!
They had referral bonus promotion thing going on. I deposited $1000 via ** because my cousin told me that 5dimes have great lines. I switched over them. My cousin supposed to get referral bonus because that's how I started playing there. He called 5dimes and they told us that we both need to send our id's. We did, they said it's going to take a while for them to review the accounts. A month later, they told us that we shared an IP address once or twice throughout the month, therefore we are not eligible for referral bonus.
This is how they treat their customers like we are stupid.
So, my cousin can't come over to my place to sleep over and log in to his account from my computer. Why? Because it's a violation for 5dimes.
I'm going to take my money out on Wednesday and move on to European betting sites. They are so much better.Comment -
Sadly all of this is probably true.
Tony doesn't give a shit sounds accurate. SBR and OGGA are either toothless or have already been paid off. And so on. In the end it is highly unlikely that you will be able to get paid.
This is of course the same for a lot of the books operating over the internet. They will stiff the players without any regard for what's right or wrong. Or for the consequences.
The thing is. Most of them do not get an SBR stamp of approval on their theft and an A+ rating.
PLPComment -
A lawyer would be useless. In all the time that online gambling has been going on in Costa Rica, I can't think of one case where a player has been successful suing a sportsbook. Gambling is illegal in the US. A cocaine dealer can't sue you if you stiff him. It doesn't matter if you have a written contract. A prostitute can't sue for non-payment where it's illegal.Last edited by raiders72001; 12-23-12, 05:20 AM.Comment -
i can see why you would...and years ago when affiliate action was at a high point, i might agree... but now, sbr needs 5dimes much more than 5dimes needs them...and with sbr ratings meaning less and less by the day, tony cares a little bit less about what they are rated, especially if it costs him dans remaining balance that he strongly feels he doesnt owe... just my .02c on itComment -
Established books don't care about the forums at all.Comment -
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i believe they pay much less than in the past...still pick up some players and make some money...but they arent dependent upon forums for anything, it simply keeps their name out there... BI was almost 100% dependent on sbr...without sbr, they wouldnt have had squat for clients... i would be interested in knowing what % of clients pinnacle picks up from the forums they advertise ...i would guess less than 5%...but purely a guess.Comment -
I still can't get over the fact that Dan spoke to two different employees, who acted as if they had authority, and they ok'd the bet twice. When Dan asks to speak to a manger/ supervisor and they take the reigns, what is a player to do? Also, Dan didn't ask to speak to a second employee, but the first employee wanted to double-check. How many double, triple, or quad checks before a book becomes accountable for their errors? One other thing, posters who are getting on Dan because he was able to cashout a good-sized chunk of change are looking at all wrong. The amount of sum involved shouldn't determine policy, but policy should determine all sums of money being disputed.Comment -
I hear that Justin 7 decided to resign from the sbr team! I wish him the best, he always seemed to want to help but was being held back! Good luck j7 I wish u the best!!Comment -
5Dimes Confiscates $32,563.09 and Threatens Further Collection
Posted by admin on 28 December 2012 in Betting Sites News
5Dimes.eu is the most popular online sportsbooks servicing the US market. Until December 2012 they long held an A rating on our sportsbook ratings guide. Our most honest competitor Bookmakers Review gives them the second highest rating possible (4.5 of 5). Multiple years in a row they were voted best sportsbook in the annual SBRForum.com poster’s poll. The point: this is a sportsbook that most players value and trust.
Sadly, 5Dimes recent handling a dispute now brings their worthiness of top ratings into question. You can find details of a complaint where a player had $32,563.09 confiscated and was threatened with additional collection in threads Dan711 vs 5Dimes (2+2) and Dan bouton vs. 5Dimes (SBR). This report uses information found in both these threads.
5Dimes vs. Dan777 (Dan bouton)
A played named Dan claims to have opened an account at 5Dimes around October 3, 2012. He made three deposits over a short period of time totaling $885. On October 9, 2012 he staked $0.57 on a progressive pleaser that had an incorrect pay table. Winning 5 out of 6 paid 7000-to-1 instead of the 70-to-1 it was intended to pay. This was one of dozens of pleaser bets he placed where option 5 out of 6 had an incorrect payout. It was however the only of these bets which he won.
Dan claims to be new to online sports betting. Suspecting this pay table was likely an error he began reading forums about how sites handle bad lines. Feeling his bet would likely be void if it was a mistake, he called 5Dimes to inquire about the pay table. It is important to note he did this while the bet was still pending and specifically stated he thought their pay table was wrong. He was told by a 5Dimes rep the pay table was correct. Still skeptical he asked to speak to a manager. A second person, this one Dan believed was a manager, also claimed the pay table was correct. This bet won and Dan was paid $3990 in winnings instead of $39.90 he should have been paid.
Dan continued to wager at 5Dimes running well and cashed out $10,840 while still holding an account balance. An important fact: he claims ALL of his future wagers were on legit lines. He received no other winnings from incorrect odds. Dan had an amazing run winning over $25,000 legitimately during Week 11 of the 2012 NFL season. This was several hundred legit bets and more than a month after he was overpaid on his winning pleaser bet. At this point his account balance was $32,563.09. The excitement of his biggest winning week was ended when he found his 5Dimes account locked right after this win.
Dan then spoke to 5Dimes General Manager Tony Williams for the first time. The chat was not friendly as you can see from the log below.
In the log above you can see 5Dimes General Manager Tony Williams takes the position that he is not only confiscating the $32,563.09 but he is voiding all of Dan’s action period. He demands Dan returns the difference of $885 in deposits and $10,840 in payouts. He threatens collection.
Tony later alludes there will be no arbitration offered and that rulings (such as SBR) do not matter to him. He continues to make threats of collection.
Even after 5Dimes own rules were pointed out, Tony still makes threat of collection telling a player he should be packing his bags (which can easily be interpreted as the threat of physical harm).
5Dimes Rules Cover How To Handle This Dispute
Remember: Dan attempted to report this error and was told it was correct. He asked for a manager and was told again that it was correct. He then wagered for more than a month making hundreds of wagers. It was only after a legitimate lucky weekend that this was detected and his account was closed. 5Dimes rules actually cover in detail how this dispute should be handled. Below are screen shots from their rules page.
Relevant 5Dimes Rule #1
Relevant 5Dimes Rule #2
Relevant 5Dimes Rule #3
If the facts are exactly as stated: the correct way to handle this is to deduct the $3950 over-payment from the $32,563. This means Dan is owed $28,613. If 5Dimes General Manager Tony Williams disagrees then in this case the player is owed a mutually agreed upon fair arbitration over the disputed balance. Unfortunately as 5Dimes is located in Costa Rica where regulation is non-existence and recourse next to nil there is little that can be done in this matter. In other words, Tony Williams holds all the cards.
SBR Provides Player No Assistance
For many years self proclaimed industry watchdog SportsBookReview.com (SBR) and their forum SBRForum.com is where players go when they have a dispute with an online sportsbook. For the past 5-years their dispute analysis known as Justin7 has been their most respected authority on player vs. sportsbook disputes. His real name is Elihu D. Feustel. He authored the book Conquering Risk: Attacking Vegas and Wall Street. He is a former Pinnacle Sports employee, a licensed US attorney and has likely handled well over 1,000 sportsbook disputes.
In the SBR thread Dan started to report this 5Dimes complaint, Justin7 chimed in (post #51) and posted:
6 days after Justin7 made the post above Dan commented on it (post #256) in the 2+2 thread.
Of course if you read both threads you’ll see the player was jobbed by SBR. About a month after this Justin7 offered SBR his resignation. I asked him several questions in a Roughing The Punter thread. One of them related to 5Dimes to which he answered:
Unfortunately it looks like that’s that! Justin7 who has handled more complaints than anyone feels it was not handled correctly, but he was only silenced by SBR. I also agree with Justin7, though don’t entirely discount the possibility there are more facts here. In my strong opinion: 5Dimes at minimum owes Dan a mutually agreed upon arbitration over the disputed funds.Comment -
Got damn what a read - stuff like this happens far too often for me to want to continue offshore...fuk this I'm going to Vegas
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Unfortunately, Dan's battle with 5D got lost with the BI collapse. SBR approved this A Book's theft just prior to their manufactured B Book stole everyone's funds. Not a good way to close out 2012 for SBR.Comment -
This is one of the worst theivings I have ever seen in my 22 years wagering on sports. At least BetIslands had a bailout planned with EZ for the players before they robbed them. 5Dimes steals the players money,gives them the finger,tells OP to tell whoever he wants,and threatens to place him in collections. Tony needs his ass kicked. If it wouldnt land me in a third world prison I would fly down and dust him off myself. If Tony had to deal with players face to face here on US soil, he would never pull the crap he does.Comment -
Someone needs to fly to costa rica and give this tough guy Tony a beatdown for all the players he has screwed or disrespected.
Guy is clearly a beta male and needs to be taken care of.Comment -
I would like to request sbr to comment on j7 statements and accusation that they "dropped the ball on this one" and continued to ignore j7 requests to handle this a diferent way. J7s statement can be read on the full article or on my other thread at the other forum. He clearly tried to help in this and bring me resolution but was completely shut down and out by bill Dozer and Lou! I think this made h feel more like a pawn than an arbitrator and he therefor resigned.Comment -
I believe that they are ignoring this thread for some reason. what reason could it be?!?Comment -
First this and then the Bet Islands fiasco....Comment -
Ray
Justin has openly stated on other forums that sbr dropped the ball on this one and that he was told to not speak publicly on this complaint. He said he sent bill Lou and Jon numerous emails stating he was not for their decision and why they should change their stance. All emails were dismissed and he was told to keep quiet. U can read all j7s posts yourself just go look for them on other forums! Out of respect he listened to bills directions but later resigned because he was being treated as an employee who has to do what is told rather then an independent who provided his true insight! He said this was the first time this has happened to him there and now obviously the last time!
As for what I wanted sbr to do, is for them to clearly state tony is in the wrong and should pay the money and maybe apologize! Then when he refuses, wich u think is the likely outcome, they then take further action. Possibly making a news bulletin and then downgrading the rating of the book. I don't understand why u think it's just a dead end when a book decides to act shady. That is what sbr does or is supposed to do, it guides current and future customers to good books and away from problematic books. This is not just about me getting paid, I felt that it was very unlikely that I see another dime but to expose these business practices. With sbr backing my claim I felt it would hold more weight.
If this continues to happen to other players, this should have been the red flag to tread carefully with 5d. Since it was ignored or even worse, pointed the finger at the player rather then the book, how will sbr handle another claim like this. Will they then pay the player from their pocket since they approved this type of theft or do they continue to justify this theft no matter what book does this?Comment -
After BetOnSports got shut down by the feds 5 or 6 years ago, me and my friends came here and decided to join 5Dimes based on their rating and the high praise most gave them. They've always been great so this thread is very surprising. Our balance is at zero now with a few pending on bowl games this week. If 5Dimes has gone bad maybe we'd just bet between ourselves and try fantasy and some super bowl pools. No clue which books are good anymore if 5Dimes has money problems. The final summary here posted above is very clear and detailed and makes both SBR and 5Dimes look bad. Maybe there's other details that 5Dimes or SBR hasn't said yet though--they could be researching the player who appears to be owed $28K--just guessingComment -
ok so justin7 quit sbr???Comment
