GOD

[brainfreeze]

i had a friend once ask " how do you do that "? i said what ...he says, quote scripture out of the blue like that on whatever im asking about.. i told him it just comes to me, it's weird ... i dedicated myself to copy the Bible by hand, and take time each day to study ... at the same time, something deeper was happening, and these Words were written on the heart subconsciencly ....

The Words (scripture) are very important, it is the Sword of Gods Armor...

[BigDofBA]

i had a friend once ask " how do you do that "? i said what ...he says, quote scripture out of the blue like that on whatever im asking about.. i told him it just comes to me, it's weird ... i dedicated myself to copy the Bible by hand, and take time each day to study ... at the same time, something deeper was happening, and these Words were written on the heart subconsciencly ....

The Words (scripture) are very important, it is the Sword of Gods Armor...

If I rewrote and memorized the Book of Mormon and Quran would it be a waste of time then?

[Snowball]

BigD, doubt must exist, otherwise our free will would be broken, and we could not be saved.

[BigDofBA]

BigD, doubt must exist, otherwise our free will would be broken, and we could not be saved.

To me free will is a myth.

I didn't get to choose if I was born. I didn't get to choose where I was born. I didn't choose my parents. I didn't choose my height, eye color, skin color, etc.

How exactly did I have free well?

What about the children born to Muslim parents in Syria? How do they have free will? They're brainwashed since birth and if they try to leave their religion they get killed.

It's not free will to have to choose worshiping a deity or going to hell. If that's the case it means God created man to worship him. That's vain as it gets.

If that's the game you have to play, I would have chosen not to exist. I didn't get that option therefore I didn't have free will.

What kind of "loving" God would setup a bs game like that? Why not just populate heaven and bypass creating the earth?

God did not need to create man but he did (according to religion not me) and then he set an ultimatum. Worship him or goto hell. That's not free will. He didn't have to create man and he didn't have to set rules for us to abide by.

If you religious people are right, we're playing a game that we didn't choose to play under rules we didn't choose to play by. Again, please explain how that's "free will"?

[brainfreeze]

If I rewrote and memorized the Book of Mormon and Quran would it be a waste of time then?

if you believe in your heart that it is worth learning about, then go for it... i believe it's not beneficial to read those books because of the research and history studies i've done about the topics. if you want to follow muhammad or joesph or whatever ... if your heart, soul, is thirsting for a violent cult type or to dance around rattling snakes etc. etc. ... someone will always twist and manipulate to be stumbling block for others.

This is all mans doing, but im a witness that truth can be found.. if you think my belief is fake, or i am lying, or this is all a joke or a dream ...that's your decision. i've presented the facts, historical events, prominent figures testimonies, my testimony, miracles, scripture, all wrapped with the Holy Spirit, and Gods love.

all i can do is pray God opens your heart and unwrap the coil of unbelief that's suffocating your growth and understanding of God. If you believe you never did wrong and you don't need forgiveness for anything, and you have just been perfect dofBA, shrugs ...idk what to tell ya, i was a wretched confused man...

[BigDofBA]

if you believe in your heart that it is worth learning about, then go for it... i believe it's not beneficial to read those books because of the research and history studies i've done about the topics. if you want to follow muhammad or joesph or whatever ... if your heart, soul, is thirsting for a violent cult type or to dance around rattling snakes etc. etc. ... someone will always twist and manipulate to be stumbling block for others.

This is all mans doing, but im a witness that truth can be found.. if you think my belief is fake, or i am lying, or this is all a joke or a dream ...that's your decision. i've presented the facts, historical events, prominent figures testimonies, my testimony, miracles, scripture, all wrapped with the Holy Spirit, and Gods love.

all i can do is pray God opens your heart and unwrap the coil of unbelief that's suffocating your growth and understanding of God. If you believe you never did wrong and you don't need forgiveness for anything, and you have just been perfect dofBA, shrugs ...idk what to tell ya, i was a wretched confused man...

I never said I was perfect. If that's what you got from my comments you missed the point.

[brainfreeze]

if you believe in your heart that it is worth learning about, then go for it... i believe it's not beneficial to read those books because of the research and history studies i've done about the topics. if you want to follow muhammad or joesph or whatever ... if your heart, soul, is thirsting for a violent cult type or to dance around rattling snakes etc. etc. ... someone will always twist and manipulate to be stumbling block for others.

This is all mans doing, but im a witness that truth can be found.. if you think my belief is fake, or i am lying, or this is all a joke or a dream ...that's your decision. i've presented the facts, historical events, prominent figures testimonies, my testimony, miracles, scripture, all wrapped with the Holy Spirit, and Gods love.

all i can do is pray God opens your heart and unwrap the coil of unbelief that's suffocating your growth and understanding of God. If you believe you never did wrong and you don't need forgiveness for anything, and you have just been perfect dofBA, shrugs ...idk what to tell ya, i was a wretched confused man...

Also have the witness of others here like dodger, mr.klc, recon1 and ia777 .... that's 4 witnesses ..that will testify of Gods love and to the truth

[BigDofBA]

Also have the witness of others here like dodger, mr.klc, recon1 and ia777 .... that's 4 witnesses ..that will testify of Gods love and to the truth

So four dudes on SBR prove God exists?

What do you think of my take on free will?

[brainfreeze]

I never said I was perfect. If that's what you got from my comments you missed the point.

No, you said you live a life better than a lot of Christians ... that's cool and all, but you have sinned before d, sooo... you need forgiveness bud. You need Jesus to forgive you for all sin, including original sin... to be cleansed white as snow... He is the cover, your debt is paid, all you have to do is accept it... Make the devil mad, and move on with your life lol... and as time goes you will see the blessing, the blessings, the blessings, ...the blessings you turn out to be for others, the blessings how things turn out for you.. the joy in the heart, its unreal...

but thats not all i adressed in those paragraphs ...but your point is, why are they wrong and im right? Study man... seek, get on a track, a hunt, study out the religion...see what the people really believe, i can't believe as a muslim because Jesus is God, He is the Son, part of the Trinity, the Godhead so to speak... no way to the Father but by the Son, before Abraham was Jesus was, Peter telling Him He was the Messiah, John telling " behold the lamb of God " the prophecies were fulfilled to a T...

as for mormon, " do not add to or take away from the Word of God " addresses that one fairly easy ...whoever joesph smith was, sure he had cult like personality to create his own book that's followed today ...but there's scientology and other funky stuff out there so idk...

[brainfreeze]

So four dudes on SBR prove God exists?

What do you think of my take on free will?

What im saying is 3 to 4 witnesses testifying is overwhelming evidence in those days, and still holds as substantial today.. you don't have to take our word but we've given you the truth, rather on sbr, the dollar store, or in the ritz carlton ...

and if you want to believe free will is a myth, then you've let yourself believe a delusion...because the reality is you have choices everyday, all day....

[BigDofBA]

What im saying is 3 to 4 witnesses testifying is overwhelming evidence in those days, and still holds as substantial today.. you don't have to take our word but we've given you the truth, rather on sbr, the dollar store, or in the ritz carlton ...

and if you want to believe free will is a myth, then you've let yourself believe a delusion...because the reality is you have choices everyday, all day....

There was no reason for man to exist. If there is a God and he constructed the universe and the rules for the universe...and then he created man, then we do not have free will.

We're playing a game that was set up by God under God's rules. Why can't we choose not to play?

Basically God created man to worship him or goto hell. That's messed up.

You're a good guy but you really don't have a good come back for this one.

God's "game" worship him or goto hell isnt free will. It's an ultimatum.

[brainfreeze]

There was no reason for man to exist. If there is a God and he constructed the universe and the rules for the universe...and then he created man, then we do not have free will.

We're playing a game that was set up by God under God's rules. Why can't we choose not to play?

Basically God created man to worship him or goto hell. That's messed up.

You're a good guy but you really don't have a good come back for this one.

God's "game" worship him or goto hell isnt free will. It's an ultimatum.

It's a choice to perceive it as an ultimatum ... i see choices belief or doubt... saved or unsaved, evil or good, sin or perfection, Holy Spirit or false spirits/no spirits, heaven or hell ...

choices ..

[b1slickguy]

People simply overlook or are ignorant to the fact that the council of Nicea (a group of bishops called together by a recently converted emperor Constantine) cherry picked which books would appear in the new testament and which ones would not. Constantine's empire was riddled with people of various beliefs and religions and this was a major concern. Books such as the gospel of mary and the book of enoch were not included despite their widespread popularity in those times. Several others were left out as they did not tell the specific story the council and the emperor wished to depict. This is further evidence of the new testament being assembled as a mechanism of control. Centuries later the Vatican even took it a step further when they took it upon themselves to actually remove a handful of books from the bible. Once again the narrative required adjustments to keep the agenda of power and control in motion just as was needed with the creation of the new testament.

[brainfreeze]

People simply overlook or are ignorant to the fact that the council of Nicea (a group of bishops called together by a recently converted emperor Constantine) cherry picked which books would appear in the new testament and which ones would not. Constantine's empire was riddled with people of various beliefs and religions and this was a major concern. Books such as the gospel of mary and the book of enoch were not included despite their widespread popularity in those times. Several others were left out as they did not tell the specific story the council and the emperor wished to depict. This is further evidence of the new testament being assembled as a mechanism of control. Centuries later the Vatican even took it a step further when they took it upon themselves to actually remove a handful of books from the bible. Once again the narrative required adjustments to keep the agenda of power and control in motion just as was needed with the creation of the new testament.

ok slick guy, tell us... which books are spiritually inspired and which are not. Tell us which books were left out to benefit or addition to constantines agenda was granted because of it. (he took by force, and used the Bible as a political tool to win the people who were predominantly Christian) and bonded church (manipulated them) with state and conquered and fought.These were the authors slick, Paul had very good deep understanding some of which i still ponder on for hours...

you can be sure tyndale https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tyndale who translated the full Bible from hebrew, and greek to what we have today in the kjv and fought catholic persecution eventually being martyred. We can even slip off there which translation and words are applied to a verse esv, nkjv, niv, kjv, etc. etc. ..also Greek words mean different things than Hebrew, or Aramaic words.. so different words can be switched and meaning can be displaced. Then the catholic version with all the apocryphal maccabees 1&2, enoch and so fourth...


The true reason is, some books and stories are divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit and some are not (and from unknown authors), and there's been a lot of councils and problems to support and manipulate situations with the different books. satan never sleeps ... master of confusion and lies, quite a tangle...

[brainfreeze]

To be saved repent and believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ

Jesus is the way the truth and the life!

there is no catholics, no protestants, what is an eveangelical
well in political terms these are "christian zionists" Jerry Falwell Liberty university

probably 95 percent of people dont even know what the terms mean
thats the confusion

But Biblically an evangelist is one of the five fold ministry
an evangelist is simply someone who preaches the gospel to the lost
All Christians are evangelists in one sense

This guy gets it though ....

and yea to many names and to much going on.

really good you brought this up...

[bobbywaves]

We're playing a game that was set up by God under God's rules. Why can't we choose not to play?

You have the free will not to play God's game under His fair rules (10 simple commandments), as many people commit suicide everyday.

Of course God frowns upon suicide, as it's taking away the life He gave us. Suicide won't get you into Heaven obviously, but at this point you're not getting into Heaven anyway & you're not the least bit concerned about where your soul spends eternity.

So make no mistake, nobody is forcing you to play "God's game."

You have 3 choices:

1) Continue to be a bench warmer.
2) Join the game.
3) Quit & end this game whenever you want.

[brainfreeze]

This isn't a game, this is a (spiritual)war..... (for the soul) true story

[BigDofBA]

With all due respect, none of these explanations for free will make sense.

Your God had no reason to create the universe but he created the universe anyway and made man with the intent that man would worship him for man's entire existence or goto hell for eternity.

Basically God created a condition, put man inside of it and said worship me or else. I didn't have a choice to be put in God's condition. Therefore I don't have free will.

That isn't free will. That's a vain God that created man for the sole purpose of worshipping him.

Why not just create people in Heaven?

The story is illogical and doesn't make sense.

[Seaweed]

Christ told us that He would give us His true flesh to eat. At the Last Supper, He held up bread and said, "This is My Body." Reading these things in the Bible, I asked myself, "If the Bible is to be taken literally and not symbolically, why not here, too?" It seemed clear to me that if Christ told us His flesh was real food (John 6:55), we could safely assume that He meant what He said.

If the early church was wrong about Peter and succession, how do you know they were right about Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John? Why are those books part of the Bible and not say Phillip or Thomas?

[Seaweed]

Why do Protestants believe everything has to be in the Bible? Read 2 Thes 2:15 So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.

[Seaweed]

Do you believe God left us an infallible interpreter of His word on earth?

Pope Damasus in the Council of Rome, AD 382, proclaimed the first canon

[BOA12]

With all due respect, none of these explanations for free will make sense.

Your God had no reason to create the universe but he created the universe anyway and made man with the intent that man would worship him for man's entire existence or goto hell for eternity.

Basically God created a condition, put man inside of it and said worship me or else. I didn't have a choice to be put in God's condition. Therefore I don't have free will.

That isn't free will. That's a vain God that created man for the sole purpose of worshipping him.

Why not just create people in Heaven?

The story is illogical and doesn't make sense.

Did God create man, or man create God? The concept of God can be whatever anybody wants to believe. All religion is what one group wants you to believe in their concept of God. What a theological mess

[Seaweed]

Did God create man, or man create God? The concept of God can be whatever anybody wants to believe. All religion is what one group wants you to believe in their concept of God. What a theological mess

God created man

Every religion is Man's search for God (an all powerful, all knowing, supernatural being) Christianity is God coming to Man through the Son and our savior Jesus Christ. His life fullfilled the prophets God sent before and the propheicies of the Old Testament. His teachings, miracles, death and resurrection, the writings and witnesses of His life, including those who died instead of rejecting Him, is why Christianity is unique

[BigDofBA]

Did God create man, or man create God? The concept of God can be whatever anybody wants to believe. All religion is what one group wants you to believe in their concept of God. What a theological mess

I like your posts. If people want to believe in a higher power, fine. This is America. People should have that right.

With that said, when you apply pressure to the ideas of organized religion, organized religion doesn't stand up to the pressure.

No wonder it's taboo to even question it.

There are thousands of religions with different God's. Christians believe in Zeus no more than I believe in the Christian God.

Even if "one" religion is correct, we have no idea which religion that is. It's impossible. Even within the same religions their are different denominations and different views. Catholic vs Baptist, Sunni vs Shiite, etc.

Some believe the Bible. Some believe in the Quran. Even if there is a God, surely he would understand how confusing religion is to understand.

[Snowball]

Fatima 2017 is coming.

[jimminn]

Look up in the sky at night when you can see all the stars and if you can't sense the awesomeness of God you are a lost soul.

[brainfreeze]

With all due respect, none of these explanations for free will make sense.

Your God had no reason to create the universe but he created the universe anyway and made man with the intent that man would worship him for man's entire existence or goto hell for eternity.

Basically God created a condition, put man inside of it and said worship me or else. I didn't have a choice to be put in God's condition. Therefore I don't have free will.

That isn't free will. That's a vain God that created man for the sole purpose of worshipping him.

Why not just create people in Heaven?

The story is illogical and doesn't make sense.

Seems like you have extreme ideas, and outlandish questions... you don't want to learn. " God created man for this and that " show me the verse or keep opinion to yourself, or let it be known that's the book of dofba.

You are causing more confusion onto yourself... and no matter what is said you regurgitate the same nonsense, day after day...

[brainfreeze]

Why not just create people in Heaven?

The story is illogical and doesn't make sense.

how would you ever be able to make sense out of a story, YOU HAVENT READ....

[brainfreeze]

Christ told us that He would give us His true flesh to eat. At the Last Supper, He held up bread and said, "This is My Body." Reading these things in the Bible, I asked myself, "If the Bible is to be taken literally and not symbolically, why not here, too?" It seemed clear to me that if Christ told us His flesh was real food (John 6:55), we could safely assume that He meant what He said.

If the early church was wrong about Peter and succession, how do you know they were right about Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John? Why are those books part of the Bible and not say Phillip or Thomas?

Smh, you're eating Jesus seaweed? It was literal for those it was meant to be literal for, (no innocent good person will want to eat another,) some disciples turned away at that moment, correct? ... because they didn't understand... and though the apostles didn't either, THEY STAYED ... it was symbolic, the new covenant He made with man, this was remembrance ...

[BigDofBA]

Seems like you have extreme ideas, and outlandish questions... you don't want to learn. " God created man for this and that " show me the verse or keep opinion to yourself, or let it be known that's the book of dofba.

You are causing more confusion onto yourself... and no matter what is said you regurgitate the same nonsense, day after day...

And you still haven't addressed my question....

Your God says, "either worship me every
day of your life and follow my rules or burn on eternal hell." And you think my ideas are outlandish? My ideas that rely on science, logic, and proof? You

You think that's free will.

Either do A or suffer the consequences of B? Ok, that's fine. I disagree. If that's the rules, I didn't get to choose to exist so I don't have free will.

You guys can look at stars and believe in God. I look at death, disease, suffering and natural disasters. I ask myself, what God would create a world like this? You just thank him for it. Fine, whatever.

I'm asking simple questions that should be easy to answer but you guys struggle to answer them. To me it's obvious. To you it isn't.

Thankfully we can both believe different things.

You Christians can get back to arguing amongst each other over which denomination is "right".

Aside from our beliefs, I'm sure we're all good people. Take care.

[brainfreeze]

And you still haven't addressed my question....

Your God says, "either worship me every
day of your life and follow my rules or burn on eternal hell." And you think my ideas are outlandish? My ideas that rely on science, logic, and proof? You

You think that's free will.

Either do A or suffer the consequences of B? Ok, that's fine. I disagree. If that's the rules, I didn't get to choose to exist so I don't have free will.

You guys can look at stars and believe in God. I look at death, disease, suffering and natural disasters. I ask myself, what God would create a world like this? You just thank him for it. Fine, whatever.

I'm asking simple questions that should be easy to answer but you guys struggle to answer them. To me it's obvious. To you it isn't.

Thankfully we can both believe different things.

You Christians can get back to arguing amongst each other over which denomination is "right".

Aside from our beliefs, I'm sure we're all good people. Take care.

He created us ... with different talents and abilities. God has His own reason for each individual.. He is worthy of worship and praise ... He made you, is that alone not enough for thanks, celebration, and praise?

1 Peter 4:11
10As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.

1 corinthians 12:4-6
4Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

rev 4:11
11Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

[Snowball]

Big D never reads books like

https://www.amazon.com/Problem-Evil-Peter-van-Inwagen/dp/0199543976/ref=pd_sbs_14_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0199543976&pd_rd_r=0VJDAF5H44KG6M5PX9N2&pd_rd_w=ZF34M&pd_rd_wg=WkPAh&psc=1&refRID=0VJDAF5H44KG6M5PX9N2

[brainfreeze]

Jesus is simple, man makes things confusing and hard, loves to muddy the water... believe in Jesus, read or hear the Good News and be saved... Let the relationship one grows with God determine how " clear one can see " ..

[Seaweed]

Smh, you're eating Jesus seaweed? It was literal for those it was meant to be literal for, (no innocent good person will want to eat another,) some disciples turned away at that moment, correct? ... because they didn't understand... and though the apostles didn't either, THEY STAYED ... it was symbolic, the new covenant He made with man, this was remembrance ...

Why was it literal for only those people and not for all? Where is your proof for that? Jesus was clear.

The teaching of Jesus in the sixth chapter of John's Gospel is very clear: "Amen, amen I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood you do not have life within you. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life and I will raise him up on the last day. For My flesh is true food and My blood is true drink. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood remains in Me and I in him" (John 6:53-56)

Jesus did not attempt to bring them back by saying He was only speaking symbolically.


In his first letter to the Corinthians, Saint Paul says, "Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the Body and Blood of the Lord... for anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself." (1 Corinthians 11:27,29) Paul's statement makes sense only if the bread and wine have become the real Body and Blood of Christ.

At that time, the bread and wine are changed into the Body and Blood of Christ, as the Church has always taught. Although they still look like bread and wine, they have, by divine power, actually changed into His Body and Blood. How can we know this? It requires faith. It is a mystery which, like love, we will never fully understand. The Trinity, the divinity of Jesus, His death and Resurrection are other mysteries which, along with the Eucharist, we will never fully comprehend in this life.

What more personal relationship is there than to be nourished by the Body and Blood of Jesus, than receiving Him with love and devotion? And, since the Eucharist takes place in the context of a community meal, we are also united with our brothers and sisters of the faith. To make the presence of Jesus only a "symbolic" one is, therefore, to strip the eucharistic celebration of its true meaning.

From the Church’s early days, the Fathers referred to Christ’s presence in the Eucharist. Kelly writes: "Ignatius roundly declares that . . . [t]he bread is the flesh of Jesus, the cup his blood. Clearly he intends this realism to be taken strictly, for he makes it the basis of his argument against the Docetists’ denial of the reality of Christ’s body. . . . Irenaeus teaches that the bread and wine are really the Lord’s body and blood. His witness is, indeed, all the more impressive because he produces it quite incidentally while refuting the Gnostic and Docetic rejection of the Lord’s real humanity"

Ignatius of Antioch


"I have no taste for corruptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, who was of the seed of David; and for drink I desire his blood, which is love incorruptible" (Letter to the Romans 7:3 [A.D. 110]).

Justin Martyr


"We call this food Eucharist, and no one else is permitted to partake of it, except one who believes our teaching to be true and who has been washed in the washing which is for the remission of sins and for regeneration [i.e., has received baptism] and is thereby living as Christ enjoined. For not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these; but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus" (First Apology 66 [A.D. 151]).



Irenaeus


"If the Lord were from other than the Father, how could he rightly take bread, which is of the same creation as our own, and confess it to be his body and affirm that the mixture in the cup is his blood?" (Against Heresies 4:33–32 [A.D. 189]).

"He has declared the cup, a part of creation, to be his own blood, from which he causes our blood to flow; and the bread, a part of creation, he has established as his own body, from which he gives increase unto our bodies. When, therefore, the mixed cup [wine and water] and the baked bread receives the Word of God and becomes the Eucharist, the body of Christ, and from these the substance of our flesh is increased and supported, how can they say that the flesh is not capable of receiving the gift of God, which is eternal life—flesh which is nourished by the body and blood of the Lord, and is in fact a member of him?" (ibid., 5:2).



Clement of Alexandria


"’Eat my flesh,’ [Jesus] says, ‘and drink my blood.’ The Lord supplies us with these intimate nutrients, he delivers over his flesh and pours out his blood, and nothing is lacking for the growth of his children" (The Instructor of Children 1:6:43:3 [A.D. 191]).



Tertullian


"[T]here is not a soul that can at all procure salvation, except it believe whilst it is in the flesh, so true is it that the flesh is the very condition on which salvation hinges. And since the soul is, in consequence of its salvation, chosen to the service of God, it is the flesh which actually renders it capable of such service. The flesh, indeed, is washed [in baptism], in order that the soul may be cleansed . . . the flesh is shadowed with the imposition of hands [in confirmation], that the soul also may be illuminated by the Spirit; the flesh feeds [in the Eucharist] on the body and blood of Christ, that the soul likewise may be filled with God" (The Resurrection of the Dead 8 [A.D. 210]).



Hippolytus


"‘And she [Wisdom] has furnished her table’ [Prov. 9:2] . . . refers to his [Christ’s] honored and undefiled body and blood, which day by day are administered and offered sacrificially at the spiritual divine table, as a memorial of that first and ever-memorable table of the spiritual divine supper [i.e.,
the Last Supper]" (Fragment from Commentary on Proverbs [A.D. 217]).



Origen


"Formerly there was baptism in an obscure way . . . now, however, in full view, there is regeneration in water and in the Holy Spirit. Formerly, in an obscure way, there was manna for food; now, however, in full view, there is the true food, the flesh of the Word of God, as he himself says: ‘My flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink’ [John 6:55]" (Homilies on Numbers 7:2 [A.D. 248]).



Cyprian of Carthage


"He [Paul] threatens, moreover, the stubborn and forward, and denounces them, saying, ‘Whosoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily, is guilty of the body and blood of the Lord’ [1 Cor. 11:27]. All these warnings being scorned and contemned—[lapsed Christians will often take Communion] before their sin is expiated, before confession has been made of their crime, before their conscience has been purged by sacrifice and by the hand of the priest, before the offense of an angry and threatening Lord has been appeased, [and so] violence is done to his body and blood; and they sin now against their Lord more with their hand and mouth than when they denied their Lord" (The Lapsed 15–16 [A.D. 251]).



Council of Nicaea I


"It has come to the knowledge of the holy and great synod that, in some districts and cities, the deacons administer the Eucharist to the presbyters [i.e., priests], whereas neither canon nor custom permits that they who have no right to offer [the Eucharistic sacrifice] should give the Body of Christ to them that do offer [it]" (Canon 18 [A.D. 325]).



Aphraahat the Persian Sage


"After having spoken thus [at the Last Supper], the Lord rose up from the place where he had made the Passover and had given his body as food and his blood as drink, and he went with his disciples to the place where he was to be arrested. But he ate of his own body and drank of his own blood, while he was pondering on the dead. With his own hands the Lord presented his own body to be eaten, and before he was crucified he gave his blood as drink" (Treatises 12:6 [A.D. 340]).



Cyril of Jerusalem


"The bread and the wine of the Eucharist before the holy invocation of the adorable Trinity were simple bread and wine, but the invocation having been made, the bread becomes the body of Christ and the wine the blood of Christ" (Catechetical Lectures 19:7 [A.D. 350]).

"Do not, therefore, regard the bread and wine as simply that; for they are, according to the Master’s declaration, the body and blood of Christ. Even though the senses suggest to you the other, let faith make you firm. Do not judge in this matter by taste, but be fully assured by the faith, not doubting that you have been deemed worthy of the body and blood of Christ. . . . [Since you are] fully convinced that the apparent bread is not bread, even though it is sensible to the taste, but the body of Christ, and that the apparent wine is not wine, even though the taste would have it so, . . . partake of that bread as something spiritual, and put a cheerful face on your soul" (ibid., 22:6, 9).



Ambrose of Milan


"Perhaps you may be saying, ‘I see something else; how can you assure me that I am receiving the body of Christ?’ It but remains for us to prove it. And how many are the examples we might use! . . . Christ is in that sacrament, because it is the body of Christ" (The Mysteries 9:50, 58 [A.D. 390]).



Theodore of Mopsuestia


"When [Christ] gave the bread he did not say, ‘This is the symbol of my body,’ but, ‘This is my body.’ In the same way, when he gave the cup of his blood he did not say, ‘This is the symbol of my blood,’ but, ‘This is my blood’; for he wanted us to look upon the [Eucharistic elements] after their reception of grace and the coming of the Holy Spirit not according to their nature, but receive them as they are, the body and blood of our Lord. We ought . . . not regard [the elements] merely as bread and cup, but as the body and blood of the Lord, into which they were transformed by the descent of the Holy Spirit" (Catechetical Homilies 5:1 [A.D. 405]).



Augustine


"Christ was carried in his own hands when, referring to his own body, he said, ‘This is my body’ [Matt. 26:26]. For he carried that body in his hands" (Explanations of the Psalms 33:1:10 [A.D. 405]).

"I promised you [new Christians], who have now been baptized, a sermon in which I would explain the sacrament of the Lord’s Table. . . . That bread which you see on the altar, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the body of Christ. That chalice, or rather, what is in that chalice, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the blood of Christ" (Sermons 227 [A.D. 411]).

...

"What you see is the bread and the chalice; that is what your own eyes report to you. But what your faith obliges you to accept is that the bread is the body of Christ and the chalice is the blood of Christ. This has been said very briefly, which may perhaps be sufficient for faith; yet faith does not desire instruction" (ibid., 272).



Council of Ephesus


"We will necessarily add this also. Proclaiming the death, according to the flesh, of the only-begotten Son of God, that is Jesus Christ, confessing his resurrection from the dead, and his ascension into heaven, we offer the unbloody sacrifice in the churches, and so go on to the mystical thanksgivings, and are sanctified, having received his holy flesh and the precious blood of Christ the Savior of us all. And not as common flesh do we receive it; God forbid: nor as of a man sanctified and associated with the Word according to the unity of worth, or as having a divine indwelling, but as truly the life-giving and very flesh of the Word himself. For he is the life according to his nature as God, and when he became united to his flesh, he made it also to be life-giving" (Session 1, Letter of Cyril to Nestorius [A.D. 431]).


Read carefully with an open heart

[zert]

I will make it real simple. Everything was perfect till Adam and Eve ate the fruit from the wrong tree. God said dont do it and they did anyway. Ever since then it has been a fight between good and evil.

Now no educated person wants to believe a fairy tale explanation like that. So dont believe it. Those who do have an easier path.