GOD

[jtoler]

Trip the bible says what Brain said about old testament, its not something said to do away from an argument, its right there in the bible.

[brainfreeze]

You ask for exact transition fossils without understanding that usable fossils of this kind are pretty rare to form let alone find. However, the fossil evidence that has been found shows a clear progression among divergent homo- species from a common ancestor, with both the fossil evidence and (recently even more telling) the genetic evidence showing we evolved from a common ancestor as apes. Your conclusion that evolution should somehow be happening right now, and that we should see every stage of evolution represented by living beings, again demonstrates a lack of knowledge on the core concepts of evolution, both how it happens and why it happens. To continue this discussion, you've simply got to read up on this stuff man...otherwise it's the equivalent of a guy trying to explain the earth is flat because he hasn't looked at any evidence except what his instincts and other people have told him who believe similarly

Fossils, bones, that's all ya got, and you don't know what it is, like the pig tooth that was found and built around...made to be true and in the text books for kids to learn ...joke, so apes are alive, we are alive but these transitions died off ? or don't exists ? and don't say because the strong survived because obviously apes are still here, and we are " stronger and smarter " then ape... So how'd that come to be, WHERE THE IN BETWEEN, living breathing form, that we supposedly came from... Or just say I don't understand and be done lol..

Yes, other people experience similar misfires; I did mention that everyone is affected by these right? As for your scenario, which is more likely: some divine being took the time out of his day to direct one guy to give another guy $200 (instead of, ya know, just making the guys car work miraculously, or maybe curing some kid's cancer)? Or that the guy overheard the dude talking about it and decided to be generous?

Plenty of pre-Christian societies with same or better moral stance than christianity, and their basis for belief certainly involved less documented deaths than the bible

Yeah, stranger, after church, never seen the guy a day in his life AND NEVER MENTIONED the story in church just so happened to over hear...something that wasn't said

In a sense, we are what our ancestors became, replacing them as better species replaced less-suitable ones. Apes and humans came from a common ancestor, dictated by adapting to different environments and ended up with similar but distinct species you see today. Most of the variants, as with the vast majority of variants we know about from history, suffered a similar fate...core concept of evolution is survival of the fittest, which means many of the less-fit don't survive.

Common creator not ancestor... Just went over that.. Do you know what the columbine kid was wearing the day he killed all those kids ? You got it " natural selection " shirt... This philosophy sucks, plain and simple, and gives kids the wrong idea about life, it's misleading and flat out wrong,

Regarding leviticus, it's been rationalized different ways throughout history, with yours being one of the more popular ones recently...and I'm sure it will continue to be rationalized away as culture changes. However, you can't point to a source document as the infallible word of god, then go on to say "Well, except for those parts, we don't agree with those so, uh, they were superceded"

I agree with the Bible as a whole, if you understood it like you supposedly know evolution, you'd have a grasp on the picture, instead of cherry picking a verse...

For the other stuff, looks like Muldoon handled that...gotta read the whole article man.

In bold..

[Triple_D_Bet]

In bold..

Uh, aside from the fossils and bones (which are pretty considerable evidence considering the zero fossil record the bible has going for it), there's the genetic evidence I mentioned several times now. All of it tells the same story; the conclusion is inescapable with such a disparity of evidence. Yes, the transitions died off for the most part. We're stronger and smarter than birds, and yet they're still here...because they don't compete with us, the same way apes no longer competed with us as we evolved into a different ecosystem as them. Again, core concepts here...a lot of this back and forth would be solved if you read up on what evolution claims instead of making arguments that were disproven well over a century ago.

So you're saying we have your subjective, non-omniscient experience saying that the guy never mentioned it where the other guy could have heard it, or where someone could have heard and told him...and based on that, the only explanation left is that God did it? (Again, God choosing to manifest himself by helping a guy fix his car instead of curing babies with AIDs...quite the deity ya got there if what you said was true). This is like a homicide where a guy was stabbed to death, but the knife wasn't found on the scene, so the detective claims god smote him down

Yes, I heard that you said "common creator", and I responded with the inevitable conclusion based on actual facts: we have a common ancestor. I just went over it, explained it in a fairly simple way...and instead of arguing against those facts, you're going off on a tangent about Columbine. Kid at columbine was also wearing socks and breathing oxygen; do you claim those practices are also misleading our kids, or are you simply jumping to conclusions? And while your're talking about beliefs inspiring murder...what's your stance on, ya know, the centuries upon centuries of Christianity being used to justify murder?

I've read the bible, and I understand it for what it is: cultural mythology the same as many other cultures, that through some geopolitical flukes somehow became a dominant worldview (hint: that "somehow" involved a lot of murder, making the Columbine fellas look like angels).

[Triple_D_Bet]

Trip the bible says what Brain said about old testament, its not something said to do away from an argument, its right there in the bible.

Yup...my point was that people rationalize away the bible while also hypocritically claiming it's infallible, as freezer does with his "new testament supersedes old testament" belief.

[brainfreeze]

Uh, aside from the fossils and bones (which are pretty considerable evidence considering the zero fossil record the bible has going for it), there's the genetic evidence I mentioned several times now. All of it tells the same story; the conclusion is inescapable with such a disparity of evidence. Yes, the transitions died off for the most part. We're stronger and smarter than birds, and yet they're still here...because they don't compete with us, the same way apes no longer competed with us as we evolved into a different ecosystem as them. Again, core concepts here...a lot of this back and forth would be solved if you read up on what evolution claims instead of making arguments that were disproven well over a century ago.

So now " the ape doesn't compete because we are in a different Eco-system, tac that on with millions of years, and the rest of the excuses, and boom... There's the reason there's no living transitional ape-man...smh, so what of the emotions of these ape people, morals and so forth, were they conscience apes or what ?

So you're saying we have your subjective, non-omniscient experience saying that the guy never mentioned it where the other guy could have heard it, or where someone could have heard and told him...and based on that, the only explanation left is that God did it? (Again, God choosing to manifest himself by helping a guy fix his car instead of curing babies with AIDs...quite the deity ya got there if what you said was true). This is like a homicide where a guy was stabbed to death, but the knife wasn't found on the scene, so the detective claims god smote him down

Always will be a " why did this happen and not this " type of thing right ? ...

Yes, I heard that you said "common creator", and I responded with the inevitable conclusion based on actual facts: we have a common ancestor. I just went over it, explained it in a fairly simple way...and instead of arguing against those facts, you're going off on a tangent about Columbine. Kid at columbine was also wearing socks and breathing oxygen; do you claim those practices are also misleading our kids, or are you simply jumping to conclusions? And while your're talking about beliefs inspiring murder...what's your stance on, ya know, the centuries upon centuries of Christianity being used to justify murder?

Lie, people can claim Christ, but by their fruits you will know them... So because someone claimed something and killed means nothing... but for a kid to be " naturally selecting " is doing exactly what your " science propagates .. and I'm sure he picked that shirt to wear with reason..

I've read the bible, and I understand it for what it is: cultural mythology the same as many other cultures, that through some geopolitical flukes somehow became a dominant worldview (hint: that "somehow" involved a lot of murder, making the Columbine fellas look like angels)

You might've read it but you obviously don't believe or understand it ...and Gods dominance has always been and will always be..murder is apart of sin, first was Cain killing his brother... Place blame correctly
.

Bold...

[raydog]

So if you read the bible and call it out for it's absurdities (more than obvious bullshit) and it doesn't make you believe in God, you are saying the reason is because we simply don't understand it?

[jtoler]

Yup...my point was that people rationalize away the bible while also hypocritically claiming it's infallible, as freezer does with his "new testament supersedes old testament" belief.

Cant understand the old without the new and vice versa, never heard any knowledgeable person try to cast away the old.

[Triple_D_Bet]

Bold...

Yes, that's correct...in the same way all life shares a common ancestor, but we don't see transitional forms between every step of the way, and a big reasons is because they don't compete. You could say Why would you expect to? Hard to speculate on the culture of the transitional species...morals are a product of moving beyond survival where anything goes, and almost certainly our adoption of tools, fire and agriculture were requirements for abstract altruism to develop. Although interestingly enough, many instances of altruism (both in human cultural history and in the animal kingdom today) aren't altruistic as much as mutually beneficial...Dawkins has some excellent explanations of this, although I'd be surprised if you could make yourself read them.

Yeah, claiming omnipotence and omniscience yet suffering still existing is a classic argument against the existence of a benevolent god. People for centuries have been concluding the same thing, that god can't be all 3, and that when a god works in ways so mysterious as to be indistinguishable from not existing, he might as well not exist.

Shrug, people for centuries murdered while advocating Christianity (a direct parallel to the Columbine situation you describe), but you claim that isn't representative of Christianity...and yet nutjobs shooting up a school represent evolution because they wore a shirt? FYI, indiscriminate killing isn't part of natural selection, regardless of what someone thinks when they pick a shirt to wear...core concepts.

Correct, I don't believe the bible; I understand it better than you though it appears, as I take it for what it is instead of jumping to conclusions simply because it would be nice to think there's a heaven and that existence boiled down to "God did it". I'm not in the habit of attributing cultural acts like murder to fictional characters, particularly not when the only source of this claims it's murder when Cain does it, and just "punishing unbelievers" when he does it...sounds an awful lot like another religion you don't care for (as it should, since you have a god in common).

[Triple_D_Bet]

Cant understand the old without the new and vice versa, never heard any knowledgeable person try to cast away the old.

http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot....-in-bible.html is a good compilation of God's murders, almost all in the Old Testament...always handy to pull out when talking about a benevolent God, who not only killed at least 2.8 million people but decided to brag about it by telling people to write it down in his infallible masterpiece.

Of course, these supernatural murders seem to have disappeared coinciding with the rise of intellectual thought and more people interested in keeping accurate records...but assuming it all happened as he claims, how exactly is this "benevolent" god of the old testament worth following again?

[brainfreeze]

So if you read the bible and call it out for it's absurdities (more than obvious bullshit) and it doesn't make you believe in God, you are saying the reason is because we simply don't understand it?

Romans 11:
…19You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." 20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.…

Mathew 13


…57And they took offense at Him. But Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor except in his hometown and in his own household." 58And He did not do many miracles there because of their unbelief.

through faith and believing the wisdom and understanding will come...

[Triple_D_Bet]

Romans 11:
…19You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." 20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.…

Mathew 13


…57And they took offense at Him. But Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor except in his hometown and in his own household." 58And He did not do many miracles there because of their unbelief.

through faith and believing the wisdom and understanding will come...

Guy makes claims, is asked to prove them, and instead says "I don't need to prove it, just believe me"... a tradition that seems to continue to be embraced by fundamentalists. Thankfully it was eventually abandoned to some degree by people who would go on to contribute to science, or we might still be in the dark ages, thinking rainbows happened because some guy tried to drown us once but decided not to do it again

[brainfreeze]

Yes, that's correct...in the same way all life shares a common ancestor, but we don't see transitional forms between every step of the way, and a big reasons is because they don't compete. You could say Why would you expect to? Hard to speculate on the culture of the transitional species...morals are a product of moving beyond survival where anything goes, and almost certainly our adoption of tools, fire and agriculture were requirements for abstract altruism to develop. Although interestingly enough, many instances of altruism (both in human cultural history and in the animal kingdom today) aren't altruistic as much as mutually beneficial...Dawkins has some excellent explanations of this, although I'd be surprised if you could make yourself read them.

Morals are a product of moving beyond survival ..hahahaa, if you want to believe great uncle bob was a ape, up to you bud... But these are extreme beliefs, and the evidence you claim is bogus ..animals are animals and humans are humans ... No mixing the two..

Yeah, claiming omnipotence and omniscience yet suffering still existing is a classic argument against the existence of a benevolent god. People for centuries have been concluding the same thing, that god can't be all 3, and that when a god works in ways so mysterious as to be indistinguishable from not existing, he might as well not exist.

Core principles involves belief, opening your heart to humble yourself, to take what God is saying and absorbing that, bad things will happen because of sin, but all fits with the bigger picture that everyone has a place in, and God has His own reasoning to our existence and knows are story, He's the beginning and the end of it...don't blame Him when He said not to eat off of the tree, WE WILL DIE, Eve was tricked and that same fool is tricking people today for a quicker death, and in to a 2nd death...Good exists and so does evil... Choose, it's your choice ..loves you enough to give you the will to do so..

Shrug, people for centuries murdered while advocating Christianity (a direct parallel to the Columbine situation you describe), but you claim that isn't representative of Christianity...and yet nutjobs shooting up a school represent evolution because they wore a shirt? FYI, indiscriminate killing isn't part of natural selection, regardless of what someone thinks when they pick a shirt to wear...core concepts.

Indiscriminate killing isn't part of evolution ? He seen them all as weak and shot at anything that moved, even the one he asked " do you believe in God " ? ... So you don't think this was part of his agenda or no just coincidence... No such thing..

Correct, I don't believe the bible; I understand it better than you though it appears, as I take it for what it is instead of jumping to conclusions simply because it would be nice to think there's a heaven and that existence boiled down to "God did it". I'm not in the habit of attributing cultural acts like murder to fictional characters, particularly not when the only source of this claims it's murder when Cain does it, and just "punishing unbelievers" when he does it...sounds an awful lot like another religion you don't care for (as it should, since you have a god in common)

Only one God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit, everything else is a lie... nothing in common, you understand it better then me ? Obviously not, He blesses with understanding, you could look at one scripture for twenty years, though if your not blessed with discernment to understand it, what you thought you knew, is actually deeper and more heavy to the heart... Soul food, but if you'd like to learn I can do some Bible story studies..
.

Bold..

[Triple_D_Bet]

Bold..

These are anything but extreme views...if you could bring yourself to read Dawkins or others, you might find out they're quite reasonable and all but inevitable.

So benevolent god allows people to suffer because our ancient ancestor who we've never met ate some fruit? Don't think god knows what "benevolent" means

Columbine guys were nutjobs, plain and simple...and no evolution doesn't support indiscriminate killing; you just don't sound like you have any idea about what evolution is about. It sounds like you heard about it from someone else who never read about it, which is probably not that far from the truth

Words are words and facts are facts freezer...if you read a book without thinking critically, I guarantee you're understanding less about it than someone who is, regardless of what you believe.

[brainfreeze]

Guy makes claims, is asked to prove them, and instead says "I don't need to prove it, just believe me"... a tradition that seems to continue to be embraced by fundamentalists. Thankfully it was eventually abandoned to some degree by people who would go on to contribute to science, or we might still be in the dark ages, thinking rainbows happened because some guy tried to drown us once but decided not to do it again

Your alive... Start there for your proof to believe, or go on with your ape stuff and be done with the proof..

[raydog]

Every dna test on the globe verifies apes and humans share bt 96-99% of the same genes... Bf, this is another one of the facts that you and others ignorantly ignore... This is proof, buddy...Why do you bother arguing this? i know you are smarter than this...If you want to continue to ignore facts, I won't stop you, but when you ignore proven facts, debating with you on this topic is starting to feel like debating with a child over the color of an orange... There is no debate

[brainfreeze]

Every dna test on the globe verifies apes and humans share bt 96-99% of the same genes... Bf, this is another one of the facts that you and others ignorantly ignore... This is proof, buddy...Why do you bother arguing this? i know you are smarter than this...If you want to continue to ignore facts, I won't stop you, but when you ignore proven facts, debating with you on this topic is starting to feel like debating with a child over the color of an orange... There is no debate

Means we have a common designer ... Not ancestor ...here maybe in video it will help get through..and correction ...about 95%

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzmOu1YdFkg

[Triple_D_Bet]

Means we have a common designer ... Not ancestor ...here maybe in video it will help get through..and correction ...about 95%
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzmOu1YdFkg

Again, if you could make yourself read Dawkins, you'd find the intelligent designer theory very eloquently debunked.

[raydog]

Unfortunately, and I've touched on this a few times, that God fearing will completely ignore facts when they prove the bible wrong... It's embarrassing and, I'm not calling you dumb,bf, but it shows an extreme lack of intelligence when you ignore these facts in favor of the unproven ancient book of absurdities... Again, its like arguing with a child over the color of an orange

[Triple_D_Bet]

Unfortunately, and I've touched on this a few times, that God fearing will completely ignore facts when they prove the bible wrong... It's embarrassing and, I'm not calling you dumb,bf, but it shows an extreme lack of intelligence when you ignore these facts in favor of the unproven ancient book of absurdities... Again, its like arguing with a child over the color of an orange

To sum it up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

[brainfreeze]

Again, if you could make yourself read Dawkins, you'd find the intelligent designer theory very eloquently debunked.

Macro-Evolution has been debunked, check out kent hovind or ken ham.... We can go round and round, getting no where..

[brainfreeze]

Unfortunately, and I've touched on this a few times, that God fearing will completely ignore facts when they prove the bible wrong... It's embarrassing and, I'm not calling you dumb,bf, but it shows an extreme lack of intelligence when you ignore these facts in favor of the unproven ancient book of absurdities... Again, its like arguing with a child over the color of an orange

Well I love you as Jesus does... Have a blessed one...

[Triple_D_Bet]

Macro-Evolution has been debunked, check out kent hovind or ken ham.... We can go round and round, getting no where..

No, these charlatans have claimed they debunked it without any scientifically accepted proof...there's quite a difference. The concept of macro-evolution itself is a PR fabrication so they can acknowledge the concepts that were being overwhelmingly ridiculed for holding. Their repeated attempts to mash science into a framework that fits the bible is an embarrassment, and is completely useless unless you're taking a shot for every logical fallacy

[brainfreeze]

.. im glad you found something to believe in and continue to prosper and do your best to help others the best way you know possible...im not big on some of the judgmental beliefs that you and other christians hold, but i can see you trying to help everyone, no matter what the bible says about them or what the christian society thinks is right or wrong with them... we may disagree 100% on things, but that doesnt take away from who we are... although you know it falls on deaf ears, you still put forth the effort... people ask why i bother and continue to post in this thread, but truth is, ive enjoyed this thread because of the guys who have been posting....you're a good guy, bf...

And a few post before it, you said I was a pretty smart guy, " just with distorted views " if I remember correctly... I guess some days it's one way and other days it's different... Whatever works for you raydog..I'm just tell you the truth, people aren't dumb ray, they're real people, and they e found God by exercising faith, faith is the beginning, you have to trust... That's with anything, if you go into it negative even though there's no proof against it, your bias will drowned out any rational thought..

The Spiritual is real, God is real, heaven, hell, angels, the whole lot, it's real ... and I've shown proof in more ways then one, but you guys keep going back to the same "so-called logical explanations and theories " to back you up, no thought for yourself, your letting someone else's predetermined outlook weigh in on your decision making, if this is what you really believe inside and you would give time, blood, for those ideas, your committed ... shrugs, I can't help that.. but I'm assuring you, your wrong... and what I've seen with my own eyes and others know and have seen, disprove that... but hey, it all will be a misfire to some, just know we aren't in Kansas anymore..

[brainfreeze]

No, these charlatans have claimed they debunked it without any scientifically accepted proof...there's quite a difference. The concept of macro-evolution itself is a PR fabrication so they can acknowledge the concepts that were being overwhelmingly ridiculed for holding. Their repeated attempts to mash science into a framework that fits the bible is an embarrassment, and is completely useless unless you're taking a shot for every logical fallacy

Scientifically accepted ? ... Who runs that ? O.. Evolutionist do lol... Nothing wrong with real science as mentioned but evolution as taught is a farce, and yes debunked... No claims necessary .. and you've already came clean that evolutionist have flat out lied for the cause of the water whipped evolution agenda ... science and the Bible work together, so I don't know what embarrassment you speak of, it's just the history that's taught, isn't true.. and is always changing, who knows .. Next 500 years it might be taught that man and dinosaur co-existed or that there were giants 13-20 feet high weighing thousand lbs... ? Possible.. because it's truth, every age has it's deception for the masses, where it's possible to have them and people just don't know.. Take a flat earth, science of the time claimed it, I'm sure others knew better, and then highlighted that upon discovery of other countries ...

[Triple_D_Bet]

Scientifically accepted ? ... Who runs that ? O.. Evolutionist do lol... Nothing wrong with real science as mentioned but evolution as taught is a farce, and yes debunked... No claims necessary .. and you've already came clean that evolutionist have flat out lied for the cause of the water whipped evolution agenda ... science and the Bible work together, so I don't know what embarrassment you speak of, it's just the history that's taught, isn't true.. and is always changing, who knows .. Next 500 years it might be taught that man and dinosaur co-existed or that there were giants 13-20 feet high weighing thousand lbs... ? Possible.. because it's truth, every age has it's deception for the masses, where it's possible to have them and people just don't know.. Take a flat earth, science of the time claimed it, I'm sure others knew better, and then highlighted that upon discovery of other countries ...

C'mon freezer, I give specific proof explaining why evolution is a far more viable explanation then "god did it", and instead of refuting it or even seeming to understand it, you just proclaim it "debunked" and move on?

You believe I admitted that evolutionists lied about...something? Not sure what you're talking about...

Science and the bible go hand-in-hand, except for, ya know, all those miracles nobody can prove exist and are scientifically impossible and are far more likely to have been simple exaggerations?

Educated belief was for a spherical earth for quite some time now, and the notion that it was commonly believed as you claim is simply another myth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth

Long story short, yet again: things aren't true because you claim they are; they're true because they can be proven to be so. Your beliefs simply aren't provably true, while the ones you attempt to argue against (without demonstrating much knowledge of what those beliefs are) are demonstrably true. Superstitions, faith and ancient fairy tales don't change any of that, regardless of what quacks like Ham and Hovind think.

[muldoon]

A good (comedic) example of the logical failings on display here.

X: My book says it's the right one
Y: No, mine is
X: A-ha! But my book SAYS it is the right one - CHECKMATE

[brainfreeze]

Evolutionist believe lying is just a " fitness strategy ", so why wouldn't they do it again ?

http://crev.info/2013/05/evolutionists-confess-to-lying/

A list of more fakes and frauds...

http://nwcreation.net/evolutionfraud.html

[recon1]

recon, i cant remember if ive asked you about the supernatural and its relation to the theory of god... if it brings up bad memories and you dont want to discuss it, dont fukk with it... i was just curious if that incident with your friend made you get into some deep research on spirits and stuff... i think you said its the primary force that led you to god, but its an interesting story and i was just curious as what you did after the traumatic episode..again, i understand if you would rather just not bring it up anymore

It didn't really alter how i felt at time in regards of traumatized etc. I know it effected some of the younger participants and therapy was made avaliable to them.
Basically these kids were like any other 18-23 Y/O's. Was raining all week and weekend arrives so college kids held a party. One female who was what's called gothic brought that board that allegedly calls dead spirits and the participants said she called on the devil himself. Long story short the kid who was playing and inflicted was laughing and making fun of others who believed in the game. Guy turned out not to be overly religious etc. more-or-less agnostic at best.
Pretty much what i witnessed was from out of this world and you can fill in the blanks by looking up an old Irish-priest by name of Malachi Martin and what he witnessed in his years of perfoming extracation of un-wanted spirits.
Me personally Dog i was pretty much Agnostic and edging closer to being a full fledged Athiest.
I did not grow up in a religious home, that stuff was just never discussed, not encouraged or discouraged, was just never an issue, and was the same way for most my friends growing up at that time in the 80's early 90's. Believe it or not my framing moment was really just thinking to myself that something can't come from nothing and events and prophecies made thousands of years ago coming and going quicker and quicker with alarming accuracy, just can't get lucky this many times with a book written so long ago. At one time i had all the prophicies that have been full-filled saved on computer, I've lost it, but maybe i'll have to look for it again, it's eye-opening.
Bottom-line on that event, kid was drinking beer, not determined to be drunk and no drugs in system. Funny thing is the Gothic girl i heard turned to God, has a family and is DEEPLY involved into the church she goes to. Word was she was always into that type stuff and ridiculed Christians and even held counter events against Christian groups on campus before incident.

Hope that answers the question(s)

[brainfreeze]

Bible prophecies fulfilled... There's no denying this, or the promises God has made to His people..

[brainfreeze]

Good point recon... Think I listed this but doesn't hurt to re-list, this in undeniable ...

[Triple_D_Bet]

Evolutionist believe lying is just a " fitness strategy ", so why wouldn't they do it again ?

http://crev.info/2013/05/evolutionists-confess-to-lying/

A list of more fakes and frauds...
http://nwcreation.net/evolutionfraud.html

Because there's a difference between deception add an evolutionary strategy and the cultural ethics of lying. Poker is a game of deception and you play poker; does that mean you always lie?

Yes, people have made fraudulent claims in the past, both in the name of religion, science or both. The difference is science by its very nature discovers its own frauds and discards what is disproven, while religion tends to embrace it and hail the unprovable nature of these hoaxes as some kind of proof.

As for prophecies, also simple math and techniques. If you say something that's very vague and wait a couple thousand years, it's highly likely someone will be able to fit something that happened into your vague prophecy and claim it was fulfilled. Leaving all that aside though, when science "prophesies" by making educated estimates that come true, are those somehow meaningless compared to ancient people making vague non-predictive statements?

[raydog]

^^^ this... bf, you could sit down and , you yourself, create plenty more of these fullfilled prophecies ... pick a place on the planet and you can find some scripture somewhere that fits something that has happened... its childs play for even an amateur who claims to see the future/read mind/phycic shit etc... cmon man, you know this too...you dont have to love your god any less or be less loyal to embrace the fact the bible is loaded with garbage

[brainfreeze]

^^^ this... bf, you could sit down and , you yourself, create plenty more of these fullfilled prophecies ... pick a place on the planet and you can find some scripture somewhere that fits something that has happened... its childs play for even an amateur who claims to see the future/read mind/phycic shit etc... cmon man, you know this too...you dont have to love your god any less or be less loyal to embrace the fact the bible is loaded with garbage

Shrugs, if you watch the video these are precise and accurate prophecies, not vague... and they've all came to pass, and are still doing so.. When Isaiah said the Assyrians will conquer babylon these are pretty wild claims, being how powerful they were, and for it to come to pass, is something to pay attention to, and there's over a hundred, I could see shooting darts at one or two, but a hundred ? and they're all spot on ... Up to you if you want to just brush this off, the humble will take heed and look into it before just saying, whatever this is " child's play " ...smh

[ACoochy]

80943

[Jayvegas420]

The only thing worse or more scary than a prophecy, is a self fulfilling one.