POLL: What's your #1 reason for not supporting Ron Paul?

[rsnnh12]

there's no way in hell anyone can afford all the things you mentioned (school, housing, books, car, car insurance, health insurance, food, clothes, etc.) working 20 hours a week unless you live in some squalor with 10 other people. but then bullshitting is your major.

Want me to spell out my expenses for you?

School- mostly scholarships and loans, with interest payments of $90/month
Rent- ~$450/month, including utilities and cable
Gas and car insurance- ~$200/month
Food- ~$200/month, plus ~120 saved by using coupons/discounts
Clothes- spend maybe $50/month on clothes, get shirts for free from school/sporting events/store giveaways/etc
Cell- $80/month
Total expenses - roughly $1100/month
Work-
Summer- 40 hours at $12/hr and 20 hours at $18/hr = $840, lets say $600 after taxes as a ridiculously conservative estimate. Roughly 16 weeks times $600= $9600

School year- 25 hours at $12/hr = $300/week, $250 after taxes.

So, I make roughly $1k a month during school, really a little more though because there aren't exactly 4 weeks a month. So, even without the extra summer money, I am almost completely paid up just with the ~25 hrs/wk. Add in the money saved over the summer, plus any side cash jobs during the winter (shoveling, plowing, etc), and look at that! I do it all on my own.

Anything else you'd like to fail at, crusty?

[dj_destroyer]

This is probably one of the best reasons yet. Although, I wouldn't describe him as a "hardcore creationist." I could be wrong about this but I think what he actually said was "Evolution is just a theory" or some shit like that. That being said... virtually everyone that has ever run for President in the last 150 years believes "Evolution is just a theory."

Evolution is just a theory you nutjob... Like every other theory in science (gravity, magnetism, relativity, etc.), they are open to debate, criticisms, and challenges. Everything that we hold truer than true will eventually be improved upon or debunked altogether at some point.

Ron Paul is not a "hardcore creationist" but he does believe it to some extent. I don't agree with creationism at all but I definitely believe in allowing other people to think what they want. The difference between Ron Paul and every other candidate is that he won't push his values, ideals, and/or beliefs onto you. Americans have been brainwashed into thinking that you must love and cherish and align with your president in every facet of life. WRONG. Ron Paul doesn't want that bullshit, he still understands the importance of science (he's a god damn DOCTOR for Christ's sake), he simply wants every individual to live their life as they see fit as long as it doesn't impede on the rights of others to do the same.

It's called freedom and liberty!

[dj_destroyer]

Ron Paul is a babbling idiot. This fool actually thinks that it is no big deal for Iran to have neuclear weapons. He believes that it is no big deal to raise a generation of druggies. Ron Paul has lost any respect from the mainstream Republicans. He should be committed to an asylum for the depraved old politicians. He is now HATED my many Republicans. Only the least educated social outcasts like him. In here, we have many of them. If you fools think that he is electable, you should join him in some institution.

You've clearly never studied international relations. The reason Iran is bolstering their nuclear weaponry is because the States have fukking 5000+ nukes and they want to protect their best interests. Why do Americans think they have the right to meddle in other countries' affairs? Until you've been attacked, simply defend your nation. Quit seeking out wars!

You've clearly never looked at drug policy or the terrible effects it has on a civilization. Instead of helping drug abusers or letting drug users do so in peace, we ignore the fact that it's happening and simply say "it's illegal so don't do it". Well fukk, that clearly isn't working because people still want to do drugs. Maybe we should look at WHY people do drugs instead of ignoring the problem. Prohibition is always unjustified and immoral if it's not affecting anyone but the user.

The only reason he isn't "electable" is because of fools like you who keep saying the mainstream is the only way to go. Well, it use to be mainstream to have slaves; it use to be mainstream for women to not vote; it use to be mainstream to segregate different races and ethnicities. The mainstream always becomes outdated, America and the world needs REAL CHANGE. Not that phony Obama bullshit but some Ron Paul Revolution change.

[dj_destroyer]

So because the average American is too stupid to save and would rather have a big flat screen, $150 month/cable, an iPhone with a $100/month bill, and a $300/month car payment, that means that they should get free health care?

Why should others be forced to take care of the health care of these people?

Personal. Fukking. Responsibility. Giving people more "free" shit will only make it worse.

^ This.

[dj_destroyer]

so poor people shouldn't have kids? what happened to freedom? maybe you'd like to institute the 1 child policy of communist china.

what about the millions of catholics who are forbidden from using contraceptives of any kind? should they all be castrated unless they can prove they make enough money to support them?

what about people who could afford them then fell on hard times after being laid off? should they go drown their kids since they can't afford them any longer?

and this is funny coming from a neo-twit who opposes abortion. you have no problem forcing people to give birth to babies they can't afford but wont take responsibility in helping to raise them.

and if you believe condoms or "pulling out" is 100% effective then you've obviously never had sex or sex education before.

you are grossly out of touch with reality if you think an avg american family can afford all the luxuries you've mentioned. but then you're just a know it all punk kid whose mommy pays your rent, utilities, food, insurance, etc.

once you move out of mommy's basement and have to pay for everything, your "20 hour per week" couldn't afford a cardboard box on skid row. i have a feeling your transition to adulthood will be a difficult one.

You're such an idiot.

You're confusing rights with luxuries. Yes, you have the right to have a kid. No, you don't have the right to have that kid raised by someone else's dollar. No, getting laid off doesn't give you that right either.

So if that means saving up all the money needed to raise a child into adulthood beforehand then so be it, but fukk getting handouts. I'm being drastic to make a point. If you wanna have a kid, just make sure you have a good support system with friends and family that are willing to help in the case that you do run into hard times. And in the case of stupid parents stupidly making stupid decisions and they have a kid that they nor anyone they know can support, then charities will take them.

[jarvol]

There are obviously a few people in here who are HUGE advocates for socialism and/or communism.

[crustyme]

1. The small flat tax will pay for policing, judicial systems, and corrections. It will also support military/national defense. Beyond that, there's no moral, legal, or logical justification for everyone to pay for the things you mentioned arbitrarily. Transit infrastructure (roads, bridges, etc.) for example, should be pay-per-use or have a monthly or yearly plan like everything else in the world. Why should some people pay for roads so that others can use them? Basically, everything can be more efficient and effective if privatized; but not only that, it can be more fair and moral.

2. I want companies and individuals alike to be responsible and accountable for their actions. If you let the major banks fail, new banks will open in their place. If American auto companies were allowed to fail like they were suppose to, we'd be getting our cars from China and the European auto industries where they make better cars for less. Americans proved that they couldn't compete so instead of accepting the truth, US governments hid the truth under the rug and built up the auto sector on an artificial foundation. Anytime you prop up anything with artificial help, you're denying basic free market principles.

3. No one warned of anything except for fiscal conservatists like Ron Paul who predicted the housing crisis and the recession dating back to 1983 but explicitly told all the big economists that inflating the bubble with false credit would damage America severely.

4. 9 judges who get APPOINTED (not elected) for life get to run the world? They've been brainwashed just as bad as the rest of you lemming Americans. Social security is bankrupting your country. People need to work and defend for themselves, it's not fukking hard! You get a job and you work your ass off... and when you're so tired and burnt, you work some more! I'm tired of these pansy-ass welfare-leaching crooks living off the back of the rest of us.

5. You don't understand the crux of Dr. Paul's argument. As it stands now, the US is paying off their debt by going more into debt and Ron Paul thinks that should stop, which would result in defaulting. I agree with him completely that the US shouldn't raise the debt ceiling, but I believe they should pay off their loans instead of defaulting (something that is impossible, I believe). On the grand scale of things, I agree completely with Ron Paul. Too many lemmings don't understand him though... Yes, he's pro-life; yes, he's against gay marriage; yes, he is allowed to have his own personal opinions and I don't necessarily agree with him -- but that is why he believes in federalism and that all these decisions should be left to the states. The federal government has bigger things to worry about like national security and law regulating.

12on Paul

1. how will 10% flat tax support anything when we already have major layoffs of teachers, cops, firemen, government workers, etc.? many people already have trouble paying for basics such as electricity and telephone service. privatization of many of these services would add 10X or more to the costs we already pay. you'd have to be a millionaire to afford all the current services. and who pays what? do you pay more if you get more mail than your neighbors? drive longer than everyone else? get better grades in school? people would have to decide if food is more important or attending school if that were the case.

2. new banks opening up? when the entire lending industry collapsed? uh yeah, maybe in 100 years you'll be able to take out a loan for a house, car or business.

saving the auto industry was the right move obviously. not only did it save millions of american jobs but the big 3: ford, gm and chrysler are now profitable. ford earned $6.6 billion in 2010, after losing $14 billion in 2008. yeah, they should've let them go bankrupt so more chinese could be hired to build sh*tty cars for us export. afterall, they already build all our sh*tty electronics.

3. many economists and regulators predicted the housing bubble bursting. who cares? predicting recession is like predicting there would be a sun out tomorrow. let me go ahead and predict another recession in the next 10 years. the economy is cyclical and has gone through a recession pretty much every decade. doesn't make me or him nostradamus.

but his solutions are so off the wall wacko that it's scary how much more harm he would do.

4. so when you're 70 and unable to work, we should just dump you in a ditch to die? consider it done.

5. he wants the us to default, that is the crux of his argument. he doesn't seem worried that defaulting would cause our economy to collapse as well as the rest of the world's. us dollar would become completely worthless as inflation would run rampant as our credit rating would become junk status.

we can balance the deficit and create a surplus. clinton did it and so can any leader. defaulting is not the answer unless you want another great depression. but then ron paul would take the easy way out and croak before it gets much worse.

fuk ron paul 2012.

[crustyme]

Want me to spell out my expenses for you?

School- mostly scholarships and loans, with interest payments of $90/month
Rent- ~$450/month, including utilities and cable
Gas and car insurance- ~$200/month
Food- ~$200/month, plus ~120 saved by using coupons/discounts
Clothes- spend maybe $50/month on clothes, get shirts for free from school/sporting events/store giveaways/etc
Cell- $80/month
Total expenses - roughly $1100/month
Work-
Summer- 40 hours at $12/hr and 20 hours at $18/hr = $840, lets say $600 after taxes as a ridiculously conservative estimate. Roughly 16 weeks times $600= $9600

School year- 25 hours at $12/hr = $300/week, $250 after taxes.

So, I make roughly $1k a month during school, really a little more though because there aren't exactly 4 weeks a month. So, even without the extra summer money, I am almost completely paid up just with the ~25 hrs/wk. Add in the money saved over the summer, plus any side cash jobs during the winter (shoveling, plowing, etc), and look at that! I do it all on my own.

Anything else you'd like to fail at, crusty?

where in the hell is rent $450? maybe if you're renting a room or have multiple roommates.

$18/hr? yeah right....

4 months off for summer vacation when everyone gets 3 months?

even at your fictitious figures, you make just $18,600 a year. this would be poverty level for a family of 4.

once you graduate (if) you'll barely have any money left what with having to start paying off your student loans. god forbid you get married and have kids, you'll now have to multiply all your expenses by 4 plus the loans, not to mention renting a 2 bedroom apartment (not gonna be $450). but you will have $300-$500 to cover health insurance? sure.

but pretty funny that you support ron paul, who opposes handouts such as student loans.

[Naz18]

I remember when people were calling Ron Paul anti-American for not supported the Iraq war....

[crustyme]

You're such an idiot.

You're confusing rights with luxuries. Yes, you have the right to have a kid. No, you don't have the right to have that kid raised by someone else's dollar. No, getting laid off doesn't give you that right either.

So if that means saving up all the money needed to raise a child into adulthood beforehand then so be it, but fukk getting handouts. I'm being drastic to make a point. If you wanna have a kid, just make sure you have a good support system with friends and family that are willing to help in the case that you do run into hard times. And in the case of stupid parents stupidly making stupid decisions and they have a kid that they nor anyone they know can support, then charities will take them.

if you have the right to force girls to have babies they don't want, then why shouldn't you have to support them?

you get handouts everytime you drive on public roads, open the faucet, send mail, call the police, call the firemen, send your kids to k-9 school, garbage pickup, flush the toilet.... because your measely tax dollars isn't enough to pay for the actual costs of these services.

[dj_destroyer]

if you have the right to force girls to have babies they don't want, then why shouldn't you have to support them?

you get handouts everytime you drive on public roads, open the faucet, send mail, call the police, call the firemen, send your kids to k-9 school, garbage pickup, flush the toilet.... because your measely tax dollars isn't enough to pay for the actual costs of these services.

If my tax money isn't enough to pay for them, then I don't deserve them. It's called living within your means. I don't understand you fukking knobs who think that life should be handed to you on a silver platter accompanied with roses and daisies. Let me keep my hard-earned money and I'll choose what I want to spend it on, if and only if I can afford it. It's basic economics of supply and demand. If there's enough demand for a product or service to make it a profitable venture, someone will supply it.

[rsnnh12]

where in the hell is rent $450? maybe if you're renting a room or have multiple roommates.

$18/hr? yeah right....

4 months off for summer vacation when everyone gets 3 months?

even at your fictitious figures, you make just $18,600 a year. this would be poverty level for a family of 4.

once you graduate (if) you'll barely have any money left what with having to start paying off your student loans. god forbid you get married and have kids, you'll now have to multiply all your expenses by 4 plus the loans, not to mention renting a 2 bedroom apartment (not gonna be $450). but you will have $300-$500 to cover health insurance? sure.

but pretty funny that you support ron paul, who opposes handouts such as student loans.

Good lord, you sure are dumb. Of course I have roommates! Its called living within my means! How is that a bad thing?

Ummm, do you know how overtime works? Clearly you've never worked more than 40 hours a week, if you don't know the standard is time and a half. Now, you think you're smart... what is 12 times 1.5? I make $12 an hour. That's hardly a ridiculous claim. You can make that working overnights at Walmart in this area.

Why the hell would I get married and start a family before I can support them?? that's fukking stupid. Again, its called personal responsibility.

Also, I will have 3 months after graduating before I have to start to pay back the loans... my major at my school has a 98% employment rate within 3 months of graduation, so I'm not too worried about it

Edit- school gets out in early May, starts again at the very end of August. Care to do the math on how many weeks that is?

[dj_destroyer]

1. how will 10% flat tax support anything when we already have major layoffs of teachers, cops, firemen, government workers, etc.? many people already have trouble paying for basics such as electricity and telephone service. privatization of many of these services would add 10X or more to the costs we already pay. you'd have to be a millionaire to afford all the current services. and who pays what? do you pay more if you get more mail than your neighbors? drive longer than everyone else? get better grades in school? people would have to decide if food is more important or attending school if that were the case.

2. new banks opening up? when the entire lending industry collapsed? uh yeah, maybe in 100 years you'll be able to take out a loan for a house, car or business.

saving the auto industry was the right move obviously. not only did it save millions of american jobs but the big 3: ford, gm and chrysler are now profitable. ford earned $6.6 billion in 2010, after losing $14 billion in 2008. yeah, they should've let them go bankrupt so more chinese could be hired to build sh*tty cars for us export. afterall, they already build all our sh*tty electronics.

3. many economists and regulators predicted the housing bubble bursting. who cares? predicting recession is like predicting there would be a sun out tomorrow. let me go ahead and predict another recession in the next 10 years. the economy is cyclical and has gone through a recession pretty much every decade. doesn't make me or him nostradamus.

but his solutions are so off the wall wacko that it's scary how much more harm he would do.

4. so when you're 70 and unable to work, we should just dump you in a ditch to die? consider it done.

5. he wants the us to default, that is the crux of his argument. he doesn't seem worried that defaulting would cause our economy to collapse as well as the rest of the world's. us dollar would become completely worthless as inflation would run rampant as our credit rating would become junk status.

we can balance the deficit and create a surplus. clinton did it and so can any leader. defaulting is not the answer unless you want another great depression. but then ron paul would take the easy way out and croak before it gets much worse.

fuk ron paul 2012.

1. You're argument is so crazy and illogical that I refuse to answer it. Private companies are more effective and efficient than the monopolistic nontransparent government. PERIOD.

2. Why should banks be bailed out for being shitty? Why should welfare recipients be bailed out for being lazy? Why is it the government's job to save any company with my fukking money?

3. It doesn't have to be cyclical. If your growth is natural (as opposed to artificial) then there's no reason for bubbles, excessive inflation, etc. Just let the market work it's wonders with the invisible hand and stay away from fake currencies and over-regulation.

4. Because I'm a responsible and accountable individual, I expect no one to help me involuntarily. I certainly don't expect the government to steal from others to help me... I'm sure they have their own problems they need to deal with.

5. See, you truly don't understand what he's saying. He's taking a jab at current policy-makers and economists who think that paying off debt with more debt is redundant and idiotic. He's saying that defaulting (suicide) would be better than just digging a deeper grave to lie in.

12on Paul

[crustyme]

If my tax money isn't enough to pay for them, then I don't deserve them. It's called living within your means. I don't understand you fukking knobs who think that life should be handed to you on a silver platter accompanied with roses and daisies. Let me keep my hard-earned money and I'll choose what I want to spend it on, if and only if I can afford it. It's basic economics of supply and demand. If there's enough demand for a product or service to make it a profitable venture, someone will supply it.

you don't seem to comprehend.

if you stop paying taxes then you should go live in a cabin deep in the woods where you wouldn't be able to take advantage of all those services that are supported by tax dollar.

if you privatize them, you would have to pay much more than what you currently pay in taxes.

so you have it good with the current system, so stop whining like a little bitch.

[dj_destroyer]

No, you don't seem to comprehend that I just want to keep my money that I earned with my knowledge, skills, and abilities. From that point, whatever services or goods I deem valuable to myself, I'll pay for. Whatever I don't want, I won't pay for. If every individual acts in their best interest, no one can complain about other people making decisions for them that they don't agree with. This is why Libertarians KNOW they are correct because their views are the most open, caring, logical, and moral ways of life.

[Iced]

Pokerjoe, if you want to engage me in intellectual discourse, feel free to do so. But if you wish to call me a child, bigot, feeble, etc don't bother. Telling me to "grow a set of balls" or to "grow up" are school-yard insults. As they say, name calling is the last refuge of the out-argued.

congressional budget office has said obamacare would decrease the deficit by $138 billion over 10 years. meanwhile, repealing obamacare would increase the deficit by $230 billion over 10 years.

Is this the same CBO in 1967 that projected Medicare spending to be $12 billion by 1990 but ended up being $110 billion? CBO can never be right because it doesn't take into account the negative macroeconomic effects that a bigger burden of government spending causes.

but im sure you'll ignore the facts and have a canned neocon response that you heard on rush limbaugh.

I'm not a neocon, I'm a libertarian. How many times do you have to be told? And I have never listened to Rush before either.

[crustyme]

1. You're argument is so crazy and illogical that I refuse to answer it. Private companies are more effective and efficient than the monopolistic nontransparent government. PERIOD.

2. Why should banks be bailed out for being shitty? Why should welfare recipients be bailed out for being lazy? Why is it the government's job to save any company with my fukking money?

3. It doesn't have to be cyclical. If your growth is natural (as opposed to artificial) then there's no reason for bubbles, excessive inflation, etc. Just let the market work it's wonders with the invisible hand and stay away from fake currencies and over-regulation.

4. Because I'm a responsible and accountable individual, I expect no one to help me involuntarily. I certainly don't expect the government to steal from others to help me... I'm sure they have their own problems they need to deal with.

5. See, you truly don't understand what he's saying. He's taking a jab at current policy-makers and economists who think that paying off debt with more debt is redundant and idiotic. He's saying that defaulting (suicide) would be better than just digging a deeper grave to lie in.

12on Paul

1. more businesses fail eveyday than governments.

2. why? because people need loans for homes, cars, schools, businesses.... unless you're a multi-millionaire who never needs loans.

3. gold standard (which ron paul advocates) has seen far more recessions.



4. so is that a 'yes' to being throw in the ditch left to die when you're unable to work at 70?

5. considering the other alternative is defaulting, what is he saying we should do then?

[Iced]

1. more businesses fail eveyday than governments.

2. why? because people need loans for homes, cars, schools, businesses.... unless you're a multi-millionaire who never needs loans.

3. gold standard (which ron paul advocates) has seen far more recessions.



4. so is that a 'yes' to being throw in the ditch left to die when you're unable to work at 70?

5. considering the other alternative is defaulting, what is he saying we should do then?

1. Huh, really? Maybe because there are millions of businesses and only a couple hundred governments.

2. You didn't answer dj's question.

3. You didn't really go into any analysis there. It's a perfect example of the fallacy post hoc ergo propter hoc. Your graph could have also showed that the production of the televsion didn't begin until the 1930s either. So it must be the production of the television that ended these recessions! Oh wait, that's the same fallacy - post hoc ergo propter hoc.

4. No, he said that he would be accountable for his own well-being so that he could take care of himself by age 70.

5. He's saying we should default now rather than later. If we default now, it will be bad, but it will be better than defaulting in the future when the debt will be even higher. We're just delaying the inevitable right now.

[BigdaddyQH]

You've clearly never studied international relations. The reason Iran is bolstering their nuclear weaponry is because the States have fukking 5000+ nukes and they want to protect their best interests. Why do Americans think they have the right to meddle in other countries' affairs? Until you've been attacked, simply defend your nation. Quit seeking out wars!

You've clearly never looked at drug policy or the terrible effects it has on a civilization. Instead of helping drug abusers or letting drug users do so in peace, we ignore the fact that it's happening and simply say "it's illegal so don't do it". Well fukk, that clearly isn't working because people still want to do drugs. Maybe we should look at WHY people do drugs instead of ignoring the problem. Prohibition is always unjustified and immoral if it's not affecting anyone but the user.

The only reason he isn't "electable" is because of fools like you who keep saying the mainstream is the only way to go. Well, it use to be mainstream to have slaves; it use to be mainstream for women to not vote; it use to be mainstream to segregate different races and ethnicities. The mainstream always becomes outdated, America and the world needs REAL CHANGE. Not that phony Obama bullshit but some Ron Paul Revolution change.

Tell me how many drug pushers have you arrested selling to 8 year olds? How many drug dealers have you shot it out with? How many people do you know who have lost loved ones to some idiot who was driving under the influence of drugs? People are inherently stupid. They have no brains. All they know is what they want NOW. They never think about the future. Obviously neither do you. What you want is a green light to do whatever you want. Here is a clue. It is not going to happen. People like myself control people like you because we have to. We do not necessairily like to, but if we do not, anarchy will rule the world, and people like yourself would be dead. So stop giving me your Libertarian crap about doing whatever you want as long as it does not bother anyone else. The fact is that he weed you buy probably comes from a dealer who bought it from a drug lord who kills others to stay in power. Try thinking for once in your life. People like myself have the power. People like you do not. Make the best with what you have.

[jarvol]

Tell me how many drug pushers have you arrested selling to 8 year olds? How many drug dealers have you shot it out with? How many people do you know who have lost loved ones to some idiot who was driving under the influence of drugs? People are inherently stupid. They have no brains. All they know is what they want NOW. They never think about the future. Obviously neither do you. What you want is a green light to do whatever you want. Here is a clue. It is not going to happen. People like myself control people like you because we have to. We do not necessairily like to, but if we do not, anarchy will rule the world, and people like yourself would be dead. So stop giving me your Libertarian crap about doing whatever you want as long as it does not bother anyone else. The fact is that he weed you buy probably comes from a dealer who bought it from a drug lord who kills others to stay in power. Try thinking for once in your life. People like myself have the power. People like you do not. Make the best with what you have.

Which is EXACTLY why it should be legalized so I can grow it in my garden. Using drugs and driving under the influence are 2 entirely different things. If the politicians had any backbone they would urge the judicial branch and law enforcement to drastically increase the punishment for things like driving under the influence, armed robbery, and other crimes where people's rights are infringed on by others in a very reckless and needless manner.

[crustyme]

No, you don't seem to comprehend that I just want to keep my money that I earned with my knowledge, skills, and abilities. From that point, whatever services or goods I deem valuable to myself, I'll pay for. Whatever I don't want, I won't pay for. If every individual acts in their best interest, no one can complain about other people making decisions for them that they don't agree with. This is why Libertarians KNOW they are correct because their views are the most open, caring, logical, and moral ways of life.

you don't understand.... what you're asking for is nearly impossible to implement.

how will they measure how many times you've used the public roads? how many times you've flushed the toilet? how much mail you got? how much crime was prevented by cops?

and what if majority of the people in your town decided that they will no longer drive their cars but walk instead? then just like any business with no customers or very few, the d.o.t. will have to jack up your rates or go out of business. then you're left with roads that aren't maintained, cracked and full of potholes. so if you have to drive anywhere, you're fuked.

then people decide mail isn't important so they stop paying the $50/month delivery fee. so the post offices close due to lack of customers and you never get your mail. so if you still use mail, you're fuked.

then they decide paying $200/month for cops isn't worth it since there's low crime in your area. all the cops lose their jobs... then criminals start running rampant, breaking in to your home on a daily basis.

so do you not see how idiotic your plan is?

[BigdaddyQH]

No, you don't seem to comprehend that I just want to keep my money that I earned with my knowledge, skills, and abilities. From that point, whatever services or goods I deem valuable to myself, I'll pay for. Whatever I don't want, I won't pay for. If every individual acts in their best interest, no one can complain about other people making decisions for them that they don't agree with. This is why Libertarians KNOW they are correct because their views are the most open, caring, logical, and moral ways of life.

You DO NOT have the right to determine which services you will pay for yourself. Do not be an idiot. If you decide not to pay for police services, and someone attacks you, you have no recourse. If you decide not to pay for fire services and your house burns down, you have no recourse. That is why Libertarians are the biggest fools in America. They THINK they know what they want, but in reality, they do not. Liberatarians do not have enough brains to figure out what is in their best interests.

[crustyme]

1. Huh, really? Maybe because there are millions of businesses and only a couple hundred governments.

2. You didn't answer dj's question.

3. You didn't really go into any analysis there. It's a perfect example of the fallacy post hoc ergo propter hoc. Your graph could have also showed that the production of the televsion didn't begin until the 1930s either. So it must be the production of the television that ended these recessions! Oh wait, that's the same fallacy - post hoc ergo propter hoc.

4. No, he said that he would be accountable for his own well-being so that he could take care of himself by age 70.

5. He's saying we should default now rather than later. If we default now, it will be bad, but it will be better than defaulting in the future when the debt will be even higher. We're just delaying the inevitable right now.

1. that's like saying more mcdonald's should fail since there are more of them than borders bookstore.

2. i did. have you or him ever obtained a home loan? car loan? opened cc account? if yes, then you know why banks are important.

3. what fallacy? gold standard does not work. proof is in the puddin'.

4. so he'll be left in the ditch to die as per request.

5. he is a moron then. the us has never defaulted and never will. defaulting would be the end of our way of life. if you think 9% unemployment is high, we'll see 90%. if you think $50 to fillup the gas tank is high, it'll be $5000. inflation will spiral out of control as the us dollar plummets to junk status. all the businesses will close because they can't get loans. no one could even afford toothpaste let alone cars. but what does ron paul care, he'll be dead in a few years.

instead of defaulting, we need to do what clinton did to balance the deficit and create a surplus: raise taxes on the rich & corporations and cut military spending.

[crustyme]

You DO NOT have the right to determine which services you will pay for yourself. Do not be an idiot. If you decide not to pay for police services, and someone attacks you, you have no recourse. If you decide not to pay for fire services and your house burns down, you have no recourse. That is why Libertarians are the biggest fools in America. They THINK they know what they want, but in reality, they do not. Liberatarians do not have enough brains to figure out what is in their best interests.

good points.

he gets jumped in his front lawn by thugs and beaten mercilessly. but cops drive by cause he declined to pay for their services.

[Iced]

You DO NOT have the right to determine which services you will pay for

Stopped reading there. I assume you disagree with Obama's individual mandate that everyone has to buy health care. Why such the drastic change in opinion?

The quoted statement is a tenet of communism. If people aren't free to do what they want with their money, then authoritarianism is the default.

[Snowball]

Ron Paul may not be able to shut down the Fed without help from Congress,
but HE COULD shut down the IRS, which is nothing but the enforcement arm
of the Treasury, and it's implementation falls under the Executive authority.

SHUT IT DOWN. SUPPORT RON PAUL !!!!!!

[Iced]

1. that's like saying more mcdonald's should fail since there are more of them than borders bookstore.

2. i did. have you or him ever obtained a home loan? car loan? opened cc account? if yes, then you know why banks are important.

3. what fallacy? gold standard does not work. proof is in the puddin'.

4. so he'll be left in the ditch to die as per request.

5. he is a moron then. the us has never defaulted and never will. defaulting would be the end of our way of life. if you think 9% unemployment is high, we'll see 90%. if you think $50 to fillup the gas tank is high, it'll be $5000. inflation will spiral out of control as the us dollar plummets to junk status. all the businesses will close because they can't get loans. no one could even afford toothpaste let alone cars. but what does ron paul care, he'll be dead in a few years.

instead of defaulting, we need to do what clinton did to balance the deficit and create a surplus: raise taxes on the rich & corporations and cut military spending.

1. No it's not. Because McDonald's and Border's are both businesses. Businesses and governments are different. When businesses can no longer reach a profit for whatever reason - ie. labor costs are too high, nobody wants to buy their product or service, whatever; then that business must either restructure or go out of business. When governments don't work properly, then they just tax more or print more money. Buying an iPod from Apple is voluntary. People buy iPods because they desire iPods. Government can only get money by stealing it from people. If the products and services offered by the government were actually desirable, people would pay money for them voluntarily.

2. I know why banks are important. Bad banks should fail though. The banks that operated efficiently would stay in business. The banks that operated inefficiently would either restructure and go through bankruptcy or have their assets liquidated. By propping up bad banks with taxpayer money, you're just going to get more bad banks.

3. I told you the fallacy already - post hoc ergo propter hoc. Correlation does not necessarily imply causation.

4. I don't think you understand. He is planning on being responsible with his assets and saving for retirement. How do you end up believing he ends up in a ditch?

5. That's Ron Paul's point. If we don't default now, we will necessarily default later. The debt is unsustainable. And by waiting to default, the consequences will be even more disastrous than if we defaulted now.

As for Bill Clinton, his budget was half of what Barack Obama's is. And corporate taxes were lower too. I suppose taxes on the rich were 4% higher, but that won't even make a difference. The Bush tax cuts cost $700 billion in tax revenues over 10 years. That's only $70 billion per year. Barely a dent in Obama's $4 trillion budget. Oh yeah, and Clinton reduced welfare too.

[Snowball]

5. That's Ron Paul's point. If we don't default now, we will necessarily default later. The debt is unsustainable. And by waiting to default, the consequences will be even more disastrous than if we defaulted now.

First of all, if Washington changes, there will be no default and no further
dollar devaluation.
But, if Washington does not change, Ron knows (and so does Wall Street)
that we will still NOT default.. we will just devalue the dollar. Technically
that is not a default. If it ever got that bad, the Fed would pay the
lenders in stealth. The Gov would cook its books.

[Iced]

But, if Washington does not change.. we will just devalue the dollar. Technically that is not a default.

I suppose it isn't technically. But if your dollar is worth 25 cents in ten years, it might as well be a default. That's Ron Paul's point.

[Snowball]

I suppose it isn't technically. But if your dollar is worth 25 cents in ten years, it might as well be a default. That's Ron Paul's point.

Our dollar is already worth 3% of what it was 100 yrs ago.
You know the charts. What's 1/4 off 3% ? does it matter ?

[TexansFan]

Lot's of people in this country love war, more laws and being the worlds police.

Would not surprise me to see one of the other neocons win and the US continuing it's death spiral.

Yeah, because Obama inherited two wars and now we're in four. Funny how the truth works isn't it?

[Dirty Sanchez]

Ron Paul kicks ass

[8ArIvd5]

because i'm a believer in freedom, and that means i'm free to not vote when all options suck.

[Iced]

Our dollar is already worth 3% of what it was 100 yrs ago. You know the charts. What's 1/4 off 3% ? does it matter ?

Yup. And the devaluation of the dollar all started with the founding of the Federal Reserve.

[Iced]

Yeah, because Obama inherited two wars and now we're in four. Funny how the truth works isn't it?

Five actually. Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Libya, Yemen. And now Hillary Clinton and some Republican Senators are beating the war drums for the US to go into Syria.