POLL-What will the POKERSTARS/FULLTILT closings have on your offshore SPORTSBETTING?

[Spanks]

i'm not going to let the government dictate what I can do with MY money. Anyone who just bends over and takes it, pulling all money out of offshore sites is a pussy in my opinion

FU DOJ

lol...yeah just deposit and hope yer money isnt seized along with the processors that handle payouts you inbred retard...

[saratoga1927]

lol...yeah just deposit and hope yer money isnt seized along with the processors that handle payouts you inbred retard...

[Doug]

I think the Sportsbooks could be the the next target, esp. the big ones that put it in the face of DOJ, ( Sportsbook and Bodog). Toss in a few other big books because they are big ( bookmaker, Greek) , no need to go after every little book.

I think the Feds will go after **/ ** harder, they already blacklist some players because they use it " too much ". What other business throws you out for using their product ? If they choke that off ( require ID for every transaction, maybe a SSN and thumbprint too !) that will go a long ways towards killing post-up ( for Americans). Many avoid it already because it feels criminal to send money to Managua.

I can't see sportsbetting being viable in the US with people having accounts with Vegas casinos. The gov't would certainly tax it too heavily making it like laying -125 on both sides or something like that.

The old-fashioned locals will be the winners. They even prosecute people that get caught BETTING with locals in CT now !

This can't be good for most books. There had to be a good reason why Matchbook and every Euro book dropped the USA.....too much hassle, IMO. If Matchbook can't get us paid by check ( no US bank) then whatever the DOJ is doing is working.

[saratoga1927]

Absolutley nothing! These offshore sportsbooks are seperate from Pokerstars, Fulltilt, ect. These MAJOR Sportbooks are NOT owned and operated within the US, therefore, will NOT be affected. Also, the industry is too demanding and will never be damaged.

Where do you get your information? Do you know anyone that owns any of these books? You talk like someone with a paper asshole.

[alalha]

shouldn't matter

[Spanks]

I think the Sportsbooks could be the the next target, esp. the big ones that put it in the face of DOJ, ( Sportsbook and Bodog). Toss in a few other big books because they are big ( bookmaker, Greek) , no need to go after every little book.

I think the Feds will go after **/ ** harder, they already blacklist some players because they use it " too much ". What other business throws you out for using their product ? If they choke that off ( require ID for every transaction, maybe a SSN and thumbprint too !) that will go a long ways towards killing post-up ( for Americans). Many avoid it already because it feels criminal to send money to Managua.

I can't see sportsbetting being viable in the US with people having accounts with Vegas casinos. The gov't would certainly tax it too heavily making it like laying -125 on both sides or something like that.

The old-fashioned locals will be the winners. They even prosecute people that get caught BETTING with locals in CT now !

This can't be good for most books. There had to be a good reason why Matchbook and every Euro book dropped the USA.....too much hassle, IMO. If Matchbook can't get us paid by check ( no US bank) then whatever the DOJ is doing is working.

[PokerDave]

I don't think this will effect the sportsbook industry very much. In fact, I think some sites may gain from this. The indictments won't stop people from wanting to play poker, so instead of gambling with Stars or Tilt they'll just put money onto sites like Bodog.

I got screwed over by the Neteller fiasco about as bad as anybody, and I'm quite glad I don't have any money on the indicted sites currently, but I just don't see this having the the same repercussions as the UIGEA/Neteller period. I think the only reason Stars and Tilt have abandoned the American market is because they've been trying to become regulated in the US and don't want to make additional waves. Absolute and UB got the same treatment from the DoJ and they haven't withdrawn. Not surprisingly, they haven't made any attempt to become regulated by the US government.

Just asking. How did you get screwed over by the UIGEA/Neteller fiasco???
I had some money ($400) on Neteller but got paid after a couple months.
Did you get your money out after the problem was fixed? Thanks in advance, OUT

[aggieshawn]

Online porn is legal, poker is illegal? The world is upside down.

[Doug]

This guy got busted for betting with a bookie. He is also a (losing) tout, but all he did was bet.

http://www.courant.com/news/breaking/hc-sebastian-ar-0415-20110414,0,5233523.story

So they can go after players as well as bookies.

[Donadon]

I blame the Jews from the FED They f***ed up the entire world

[sneak-a-peak]

I think the Sportsbooks could be the the next target, esp. the big ones that put it in the face of DOJ, ( Sportsbook and Bodog). Toss in a few other big books because they are big ( bookmaker, Greek) , no need to go after every little book.

I think the Feds will go after **/ ** harder, they already blacklist some players because they use it " too much ". What other business throws you out for using their product ? If they choke that off ( require ID for every transaction, maybe a SSN and thumbprint too !) that will go a long ways towards killing post-up ( for Americans). Many avoid it already because it feels criminal to send money to Managua.

I can't see sportsbetting being viable in the US with people having accounts with Vegas casinos. The gov't would certainly tax it too heavily making it like laying -125 on both sides or something like that.

The old-fashioned locals will be the winners. They even prosecute people that get caught BETTING with locals in CT now !

This can't be good for most books. There had to be a good reason why Matchbook and every Euro book dropped the USA.....too much hassle, IMO. If Matchbook can't get us paid by check ( no US bank) then whatever the DOJ is doing is working.

Very good post

I share the same exact thoughts

IMO the party is winding down and will soon be over!

Just not worth it anymore. Players depositing will be going on a deep decline resulting in books most likely not keeping up on payouts

I've been stiffed 5 figures from wsex- which already made me very uneasy about the industry and now all of this.....

How can anyone ever feel safe leavin significant funds in any of these books???

You just cant anymore

[Doug]

I can see some profiling going on at the M*G/ W*U counters in the future.

You need ID, SSN, prints if you are....

White
speak English
cannot roll your "R" s when pronouncing Raul Robledo-Rojas
etc.

Who would have ever thought we'd be taking our shoes off to take a flight 10 years ago ?

[Doug]

Here's a thread about blacklisting by **/ **...

http://forum.sbrforum.com/sportsbooks-industry/453637-withdrawal-5dimes-via-western-union.html

funny how that gets *'ed out here. I guess the DOJ can't figure that out ?

I refuse to send under a fake name in case the transaction fails.... I want my money back ! I've had books give me an incorrect name before, like a W*u name when I'm sending M*g. These places have your history of sending and receiving, they must get gov't heat to be hassling people. All that needs to be done is tighten the thumbscrews some more.

Credit books and agents will work for bigger players, but these small post up shops look really iffy now to me, places like...

Beted
Easystreet
justbet
wagerweb
Vegasvic
and countless others.

They might be able to get you a check, but their customers will start saying **** it when it comes to depositing and their CC fails and they get hassled by Apu at CVS for sending money.

[HauntingTheHoly]

Very good post


Just not worth it anymore. Players depositing will be going on a deep decline resulting in books most likely not keeping up on payouts

I've been stiffed 5 figures from wsex- which already made me very uneasy about the industry and now all of this.....

How can anyone ever feel safe leavin significant funds in any of these books???

You just cant anymore

How did you lose so much in WSEX? What was the story there?

I'm a bit ignorant of the situation, but, earlier in the thread it looked like players normally get their money back in these situations. Someone mentioned they got paid after a couple months post-neteller shutdown. And it's been said the FullTilt and PokerStars money is held in trusts and players should be able to recoup their money.

So let's clear these facts: 1) Can players get their money out of PokerStars/Fulltilt right now - or is it likely they will be able to soon? 2) If Bodog and SportsBook get shut down, will player accounts be lost?

[Spanks]

west'ern union wont process for me...faak them...

[cornhuskfan]

I see this as going after money laundering and bribery. The articles I have read have pointed to some bank execs taking money and trying to hide deposits and withdrawals. With these sites having so much advertising exposure on TV it was only a matter of time. There has not been too much rhetoric coming from the legality of online poker. I feel they would have shut down every poker site if they were completely going after the whole industry. With online poker becoming legal in DC they are risking looking like fools to pass legislature and go after it at the same time. For the time being I see this as being controlled to these businesses using illegal tactics to operate their business.

[hehfest]

Hypocrites

I can go to one of 10 friggin casinos within an hour or two drive where I live (and its not in Nevada). I can play poker all day there if I want. So......what the hack is the difference b/w that and just playing online? None if you ask me! They just want that tax money is what I see.

They said they were offshore? Last time I checked, if it is offshore than it IS out of their jurisdiction of the law. If it is legal in that country, then how can they shut them down? How can they seize funds from say Nicaragua if it is legal there for online poker?

I do not know all of what happened here, but this should be interesting. Anyone that knows the answers please chime in here.

[hehfest]

Online porn is legal, poker is illegal? The world is upside down.

The biggest hypocrites in the world right?

[hehfest]

Although

I can go to one of 10 friggin casinos within an hour or two drive where I live (and its not in Nevada). I can play poker all day there if I want. So......what the hack is the difference b/w that and just playing online? None if you ask me! They just want that tax money is what I see.

They said they were offshore? Last time I checked, if it is offshore than it IS out of their jurisdiction of the law. If it is legal in that country, then how can they shut them down? How can they seize funds from say Nicaragua if it is legal there for online poker?

I do not know all of what happened here, but this should be interesting. Anyone that knows the answers please chime in here.

On the other side of the coin, if those two places are involved in something else and that is why they are being shut down, then that changes everything. It is too early to speculate about this. Heck, just legalize all this online stuff and tax it when someone withdraws their money. Just don't make the tax outrageous. Take 10 or 15 percent! Then no more concerns about this. If porn is okay, then what is the problem with legalizing gambling and/or marijuania? I dont even smoke, but I'm sick of hearing about someone getting busted for smoking a joint.

[MoneyM1ke]

Government ceasing gambling sites but the president fills out a bracket pool on national TV.

[ThisGuy]

[Extra Innings]

First, FT, PS, UB and now SBP

[bubba]

Government ceasing gambling sites but the president fills out a bracket pool on national TV.

+1

something is ****** up in this country.

isnt the department of justice supposed to be looking out for its citizens 1st and foremost? how about a waring to its citizens to withdraw there money? i know it would ruin the "surprise element" of seizing the sites assets, but come on.

where is the american interest in this?

300 million people in america. how many are in favor of what went down? how many are pissed? how many are neutral? id say 200 milllion pissed (if they even know what happed) 80 million dont give a shit and 20 million are happy. my numbers im sure are off but i cant figure out who is happy the gov't surprised its own people?

[capitalist pig]

What Doug said, if the Feds take down a book like Greek or Bookmaker, then its pretty much all over for offshore.

Dont forget Obama anounced his internet id plan this week also, so once that goes into place its all over anyways, they will be able to track everything done on the net by all US citizens.

later

[sneak-a-peak]

How did you lose so much in WSEX? What was the story there?

I'm a bit ignorant of the situation, but, earlier in the thread it looked like players normally get their money back in these situations. Someone mentioned they got paid after a couple months post-neteller shutdown. And it's been said the FullTilt and PokerStars money is held in trusts and players should be able to recoup their money.

So let's clear these facts: 1) Can players get their money out of PokerStars/Fulltilt right now - or is it likely they will be able to soon? 2) If Bodog and SportsBook get shut down, will player accounts be lost?

I requested checks over ONE WHOLE YEAR ago now- totaling 5 figures

They owe 48 players close to 500k (that sbr knows of)

They have paid out in my estimate only about 10k to players on sbr in the last 6 months

And that of course has been throughout the peak season so they are obviously dead broke with nothing coming in

[hehfest]

Dictatorship

What Doug said, if the Feds take down a book like Greek or Bookmaker, then its pretty much all over for offshore.

Dont forget Obama anounced his internet id plan this week also, so once that goes into place its all over anyways, they will be able to track everything done on the net by all US citizens.

later

Sounds like communism or a dictatorship! Sounds like the removal of individual liberties. Could not believe this cashier at a grocery store had to "thumb print in" to sign into the register. That's pretty scary to me. Now, they want to track all of our internet activity, or have a kill switch so people can not communicate to others about anything if something did go down? Or, any other reason.

Gee, maybe we should all move to one country and just call it "Gamblers Paradise". Rename the country! Might be time to consider leaving here if it gets to that point! I loved this country the way it once was, but it is nothing close to that anymore.

[hehfest]

Sounds like communism or a dictatorship! Sounds like the removal of individual liberties. Could not believe this cashier at a grocery store had to "thumb print in" to sign into the register. That's pretty scary to me. Now, they want to track all of our internet activity, or have a kill switch so people can not communicate to others about anything if something did go down? Or, any other reason.

Gee, maybe we should all move to one country and just call it "Gamblers Paradise". Rename the country! Might be time to consider leaving here if it gets to that point! I loved this country the way it once was, but it is nothing close to that anymore.

oh wait.......left out fascism or plutocracy! Criminals running everything.

[Pokerjoe]

you aren't serious? In the US money laundering is moving money from america to your site. Accepting US players is moneylaundering. In the real world it isn't but the US is horrible at not accepting the rest of the world doesn't follow them.

Bank fraud is illegal everywhere. Where do you live where the things alleged here are legal?

Accepting US players is NOT moneylaundering. No one is saying it's moneylaundering. Moneylaundering is moneylaundering. Google it. Learn what it is. Learn that it's illegal everywhere. It isn't about the US not accepting the rest of the world. Moneylaundering isn't accepted in the rest of the world.

And this indictment is NOT defining moneylaundering as "accepting US players."

I want to be careful not to suggest that NONE of the sky is falling. I suck at being patient about getting funds, and I'm going to have to be patient about the poker sites. I'm thinking now I'll take 98 cents on the dollar, which is pussy of me, but I'm a pussy about these things. A risk-averse gambler, go figure.

But I don't see the need for panicking about the offshore sportsbooks.

Again: the best ones are not financially dependent on post up US players. They have non-US players and credit players. Why do you think Pinnacle could walk away from the US post up market and keep their doors open? CRIS could do that, thegreek could do that, I think probably 5Dimes could do that. They wouldn't want to, and their ownership structure might make them feel safer in not doing so, but they could.

This is the biggest impact: processors. As early as last month SIA lost their ability to do echecks to the US. Other processors are going to get scared, too. But that's not the same thing as being a real threat to the big book's business model.

Yes, there will be some run on the banks. But the better books have survived lots of runs on the bank. That's what makes them the better books. They'll be swamped, but they'll be okay.

And most importantly, remember: this is a specific action against these sites, based on evidence from a specific and highly-clued in rat about a specific and overtly (stupidly overtly) series of bank fraud actions, actions that would be illegal for a software company, a real estate firm, your nearby McDonalds, or any other business.

[BrigadierPudding]

You can blame the Christian moralists. Canada and Europe don't have religious wackjobs in govt that impose their views on everyone else. America is a theocracy. Religion will be extinct in Canada and most European countries in 10 years. The gap continues to grow. Disgraceful.

[eberetta1]

will definitely change my poker academy routine

[SpiderMonkey]

Done. Completely done. Everything that has happened in the industry since Neteller pulled out of the U.S. pointed to this happening and you gotta believe there is more to follow.

More books pull out of the U.S. - no doubt.
Money will be harder to deposit/withdraw - no doubt.

[underthe total]

You can blame the Christian moralists. Canada and Europe don't have religious wackjobs in govt that impose their views on everyone else. America is a theocracy. Religion will be extinct in Canada and most European countries in 10 years. The gap continues to grow. Disgraceful.

the extinction of religion has finally began in the SOUTH. yes the bible thumping south no longer has southern baptist preachers

[underthe total]

or should i say the number of southern baptist churches is dwindling

[HauntingTheHoly]

@PokerJoe - Is Full Tilt offering 98 cents on the dollar payouts to players right now?

[JOHON8]

Canadian members what are you doing right now?