No Pennies For Elderly & Disabled But Tax Breaks For The Rich?

[The Madcap]

You may have noticed that we have reached the point in the distillation of the argument where the liberals always bail.

Once it boils down to actual historical results and bottom line facts they have no recourse but to retreat because they can't argue on logic and facts. They are totally out of their element - which is generalized rhetoric, platitudes and name calling. They come back only when they can start all over again - ignoring the salient points and the truth that has filtered out - and take it from the top.

You could be right. I hope they're just at work. And maybe when they get home from waiting tables or delivering pizzas or whatever it is that they're doing this time of the day and night, they will have something more.

It always cracks me up that they think we are the close minded ones, when we often seek them out for their opinions, so as to have access to an opposing viewpoint, and then they get mad when we have concerns they can't account for. They can argue all day long about abstract theories, but when we ask them practical direct questions about day to day life and they never have an answer for them, instead of perhaps re-examining their line of thought, all they can do is call us selfish, or racist, or fox news zombies or whatever. And I always sucker myself into thinking that one day some of these guys will have an answer for my questions. Cause like I told you earlier, a part of me thinks my life would be a shitload easier and less stressful if I could just pass all my problems off onto the rich white man. I mean sometimes cop-outs are useful. But then you realize all the bitching in the world isn't going to solve your problems and it's pointless.

They never seem to realize that, which is probably why they blame the rich for all the problems in society ignoring all the deadbeat dads out there who ran out on their children. Maybe that's it. Maybe we solved it. Maybe all the liberal guys on this forum are degenerate gambling dead beat dads and they need the rich man's money to support their kids because they're too big of screw-ups to do it themselves.

[statnerds]

Nobs - Give a man a fish...how true. Things may have gotten worse for the 'poor', but you will never hear that. And if you do it will be blamed on one side of the political elites and not the other. No one ever keeps score. If score was kept, it would be quite apparent how ineffective liberal philosophies and programs never produce what is promised and sometime generate the opposite of the stated intent.

BB - Dead on. Logic and facts are kryponite to libs. I think the main reason being that they lack a complete and cohesive belief system.

They want electric cars but also want drastic cuts in electricity usage in the United States. Those two ideas are just a touch conflicting, no?

They say use Ethanol to save the environment, but it is actually worse than gasoline on the environment, is less efficient than gas and causes food prices to rise. So you can't say you want to save the environment while using tax payer dollars to prop up ethanol that is more harmful to the environment than gas.

They hate Christianity and Catholicism and want to remove it from government offices and public schools and the Pledge of Allegiance, but bend over backwards to appease muslims.

If they ever tried to put all of their ideas into one cohesive statement, their eyes would cross prior to their heads exploding.

I would just like them to rank the victim groups sometime. Like how does it go? Lesbians higher or lower than blacks? Hispanics higher of lower than woman?

[The Madcap]

Nobs - Give a man a fish...how true. Things may have gotten worse for the 'poor', but you will never hear that. And if you do it will be blamed on one side of the political elites and not the other. No one ever keeps score. If score was kept, it would be quite apparent how ineffective liberal philosophies and programs never produce what is promised and sometime generate the opposite of the stated intent.

BB - Dead on. Logic and facts are kryponite to libs. I think the main reason being that they lack a complete and cohesive belief system.

They want electric cars but also want drastic cuts in electricity usage in the United States. Those two ideas are just a touch conflicting, no?

They say use Ethanol to save the environment, but it is actually worse than gasoline on the environment, is less efficient than gas and causes food prices to rise. So you can't say you want to save the environment while using tax payer dollars to prop up ethanol that is more harmful to the environment than gas.

They hate Christianity and Catholicism and want to remove it from government offices and public schools and the Pledge of Allegiance, but bend over backwards to appease muslims.

If they ever tried to put all of their ideas into one cohesive statement, their eyes would cross prior to their heads exploding.

I would just like them to rank the victim groups sometime. Like how does it go? Lesbians higher or lower than blacks? Hispanics higher of lower than woman?

Situational ethics. That's what it comes down to. It's why our arguments have remained the same since the dawn of personal freedom and private property and theirs change every other year.

Well I think it's safe to say they rank pitbulls higher than blacks. At least black left-handed quarterbacks also known as Ron Mexico.

[King Mayan]

GMB - You cannot be this clueless. Or just brainwashed by the public school system?

Explain to why we should pay any taxes at all.

Please explain to me why someone that goes to school and college and possibly grad school should have to pay more in taxes than the people that chose to not better themselves.

You don't seem to understand that the business of government is government. They produce nothing. The post office lost $8 billion last year. Eight fukkin billion.

And if increasing taxes and stealing money off hard working Americans is the answer, you deluded crybaby bitch, why are poverty rates about where they were when you lib fukks started "The War on Poverty" 46 years....46 fukking years of stealing from the evil rich, that work that asses off to give their kids better schools, better lives, better opportunities, and giving to the 'needy' has produced no measurable success at all. Please explain it to me. 46 years they've been pushing this bullshit. 46 fukkin years and still people are poor as shit and the ghetto is still the ghetto...

Could it be you are being lied to and manipulated? Am I mistaken, or is the Hood still the Hood?

A bitcch that has not walked in a poor babies shoes can't comment on shitt they don't know!!!!

[The Madcap]

A bitcch that has not walked in a poor babies shoes can't comment on shitt they don't know!!!!

That's why you should read Walter Williams' new memoir: "Up from the Projects."

[King Mayan]

That's why you should read Walter Williams' new memoir: "Up from the Projects."

Oh trust me... There's people that get out of their slump... But It kinda has to be a perfect storm...

[The Madcap]

Oh trust me... There's people that get out of their slump... But It kinda has to be a perfect storm...

So you're admitting then that you and the rest of your liberal friends are defeatist cop-out artists?

You should definitely read the book.

[BeatingBaseball]

2 minutes, 24 seconds of pure clarity

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A&feature=related

The look on Phil Donahue's face here reveals a lot re the abject rational deficiencies of your average liberal.

[King Mayan]

So you're admitting then that you and the rest of your liberal friends are defeatist cop-out artists?

You should definitely read the book.

bro you already said your ancestors were middle class.. Thank god you had a head start.. While the minorities were getting stomped on pre-60s.... And I'm not liberal.. I actually grew up being a reagen repub.. But later changed to a conservative demo..

[The Madcap]

bro you already said your ancestors were middle class.. Thank god you had a head start.. While the minorities were getting stomped on pre-60s.... And I'm not liberal.. I actually grew up being a reagen repub.. But later changed to a conservative demo..

Mayan, you sure do like to make assumptions about people don't you? More comfortable for you that way?

My dad BECAME middle class. His dad was a small town minister, so my pops spent most of his childhood moving around small southern towns. Not exactly mecca's of wealth. The only head start he had was a father who pushed him to excel in the classroom, which he did, en route to a college scholarship and a law degree. As for my "ancestors," they were small town farmers. Not exactly stable middle class employment.

But you're obviously not going to listen to me because I'm middle class. So don't need to listen to me. Like I said, read Williams' book "Up from the Projects." He had no head start. And he was a black guy "getting stomped on pre-60's."


And speaking of minorities getting stomped on pre 60's, did you know the decades of the greatest upward mobility for blacks was actually the decades BEFORE the 60's? Probably not. That's why you need to read Walter Williams' book. And I'd also recommend "Black Rednecks and White Liberals" by Thomas Sowell. They are both black gentlemen who grew up during segregation pre-60's. Maybe their stories will open your eyes.

Aight, "bro."

And hey, I can high five myself too.

[The Madcap]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1...eature=related

The look on Phil Donahue's face here reveals a lot re the abject rational deficiencies of your average liberal.

That was pretty funny. These videos featuring a guy I just mentioned (Sowell) were linked in the suggestions to the right of the page so I thought I'd post them. The first one deals with economics/the wage gap, the second is a funny take on some political buzzwords.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EK6Y1X_xa4&NR=1&feature=fvwp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaouMZGICcc&NR=1&feature=fvwp

[King Mayan]

Didn't you say your grandma gave some money to your dad?? Well where I come from that's a head start.. And don't be mad bro.. They should close this depressing subforum and go back to gambling our hard-earned money!!

[The Madcap]

Didn't you say your grandma gave some money to your dad?? Well where I come from that's a head start.. And don't be mad bro.. They should close this depressing subforum and go back to gambling our hard-earned money!!

No. My grandfather died, left some money to his wife, she died, left it to my mother. Because of legal wrangling they haven't seen a penny of it yet. And they are in their late 60's, so it's not like any of that money gave them or me a head start. It COULD have. And that's partly my point. My grandparents were never really rich during their lives, but they worked hard to put themselves in a place as they got up in age to leave something for their family when they passed on. And you'd think in a free society my folks (and me and my three brothers) would have been welcomed to take advantage of my grandparents' foresight. But no.

High tax rates meant they had to start spending it. Money that if we hadn't spent over the last decade, could have gone to pay my mom's medical bills when she got sick, paid off her mortgage when she had to move and couldn't sell her house in this shitty market, and had some left over for me and bro's to help us out with our own bills. (Like my older brother who lost his job and is waiting tables with a 6 month old). And now my parents are up to their eyes in debt, and their credit rating is shit thanks to a wrongly written medical bill, which only occurred because the medical companies are getting pissed on by the gov't and lawsuits.

So maybe you can understand then why there are a shitload of people out there that hate the government and taxes. My grandparents weren't rich. They were just frugal and saved and made some smart investments. And yet I've got liberal jackwagons telling me I'm some spoiled asshole like some oil tycoon's trust-fund kids? It pisses me off. I think I've got pretty legitimate reasons to be a bit angry with liberals and their ideas of taxation. And so do a lot of others. There are millions in similar situations just like mine. But we really don't like talking about it. It's our personal business you know? It's the first time I mentioned it here. I mean why should we even have to bring it up? It doesn't change our arguments. It's frustrating.

Anyway, if you take anything away from me Mayan, I hope it's that you come to realize most of the people that have been getting pissed off at the liberals lately aren't these rich industrialists and their good for nothing children. It's regular every day people like me.

[golfrulz]

i think ya might find some free anger mgt classes through ur local social services.

[lyon804]

That's funny, I thought most 15 yr old spoiled brats who have never worked a day in their life were ideal fodder for bullshit liberal theories. They think they know everything, much like our prez, and they're naive enough and haven't been around long enough to know that these same old socialist ideas have been tried many times thruout history and they never work.

Some day the libs are going to be right about something - but I haven't seen it happen yet. Welfare was supposed to reduce crime. The "Great Society" war on poverty sure has solved that poverty problem for us. Gun control in Chicago has truly been a model program. Being your kid's friend and not his parent also worked out very well. And mandating that people who can't afford to buy a home should get to buy one anyway was just one more great lefty idea. So is trying to appease people who want to kill us, just talking them out of it - that makes a lot of sense as well. You can see why libs now jump on things like "global warming." They must figure it will take centuries to prove them wrong on that one.

Awesome post that ended with me spitting my drink out because of the bolded part.

You may have noticed that we have reached the point in the distillation of the argument where the liberals always bail.

Once it boils down to actual historical results and bottom line facts they have no recourse but to retreat because they can't argue on logic and facts. They are totally out of their element - which is of course generalized rhetoric, platitudes and name calling. They come back only when they can start all over again - ignoring the salient points and the truth that has filtered out - and take it from the top.

You said more than a mouthful with this post alone with really few words. Nice job and so true.

[The Madcap]

i think ya might find some free anger mgt classes through ur local social services.

Real men don't go to anger management classes. Real men kick the shit out of the little whiny wimps that report them to social services.

Fortunately for you, you're protected by anonymity of this forum.

Just hope you don't run into me at an SBR function one day, because I got a feeling I ain't the only one that owes you a good ass-whuppin, but I certainly won't mind collecting on behalf of everyone else.

I've reasoned with you. Been polite with you. Chomped the bit with you and been an asshole back. Nothing works. You just keep running that mouth. You're as snot-nosed as they get. You're why god gave us a back hand to pop somebody upside the mouth with. And it's a damned shame he ain't quite find the solution for little milksops like you. So lap it up. Lap it all up. This is your kingdom golf. No one can touch you here. You can do and say whatever the hell you want. So enjoy it. I really want you to enjoy it golf. Let it all out. You can keep crying on our shoulders here. We know you're sad. We know you've got nothing better in life.

And that's funny, because you think I'm on here all the time. Yeah, I am on here a lot. I check lines. I wait for them to move. I get bored sometimes while I'm waiting. So I go talk to some fellow posters. I do the same thing at work when it's slow and there's nothing going on. It's a great time killer. Really is. But I'm going to go now golf. I'm going to go have a drink, and then some wicked wild sex with my D-breasted girlfriend. What are you going to do? What's going to sing you to sleep tonight? The tears of your unfathomable sorrow? Something tells me titties in your face taste better. Maybe you should work on that.

[golfrulz]

tough guy lol...... on here 24/7 yikes....geez dude you are fricken pathetic. nothing better to do than to make threats.......you sound like some sissy that was drummed out of the mousekiteers as a child. not enough hugs or what. take a pill and chill little man....and...have a nice day el cheapo.

[golfrulz]

one more thing madcrap......enjoy ur blow up doll tonight........probably a guy doll with a little penis.

[Grandmaster B]

tough guy lol...... on here 24/7 yikes....geez dude you are fricken pathetic. nothing better to do than to make threats.......you sound like some sissy that was drummed out of the mousekiteers as a child. not enough hugs or what. take a pill and chill little man....and...have a nice day el cheapo.

oh and statnerds. keep gambling away your parents money on those sorry ass NFL picks and soon you too will be able to walk a day in the poor mans shoes

[Grandmaster B]

Income Extra Taxes
$50,000 : $0
$250,000 : $2,344
$500,000 : $11,866
$1,000,000 : $34,866
$20,000,000 : $908,866


oh no the guy making 250k wont be able to send his kids to college...that extra $2,000 will really sting

omg the guy making 500k a year wont be able to feed his family....that $11k really going to hurt

oh Jesus the millionaire will have to give up 34k and his family will be homeless...they might even be at the soup kitchen

[statnerds]

A bitcch that has not walked in a poor babies shoes can't comment on shitt they don't know!!!!

Why do libs always assume shit, when they don't know shit. I went to public schools, wore hand me down clothes, ate gov'ment cheese and went shopping with my mom when she used food stamps. There were some lean years, but my mother and father took whatever jobs they needed to in order to keep our house and put food on the table. I started working at 15 so I could buy my own clothes and food to help take the burden off them.

Good call on your part though, right on, as usual.

[The Madcap]

Why do libs always assume shit, when they don't know shit. I went to public schools, wore hand me down clothes, ate gov'ment cheese and went shopping with my mom when she used food stamps. There were some lean years, but my mother and father took whatever jobs they needed to in order to keep our house and put food on the table. I started working at 15 so I could buy my own clothes and food to help take the burden off them.

Good call on your part though, right on, as usual.

It's all about the narrative.

Today's liberal narrative is that conservatives are either A) rich or B) dumb backwoods racists. That's the story they've been promoting for years. It's an easy way for liberals to get their supporters to preemptively discount and dismiss any criticisms of liberal policies. If they are convinced the only people that want lower taxes are rich people, and the only people that don't like universal health care are racists, then they don't have to listen to anybody that wants lower taxes or disagrees with the premise of universal health care.

Today's arguments are hardly ever about facts, they are about emotions. Politicians prey on these emotions. And if they can get you to construct an emotional wall in front of your enemy, then you never have to face that enemy eye to eye. You never have to see each other for who you really are. And so then the politicians and pundits become your vision guide, sitting on the top of that wall, telling you what's on the other side. And so your vision of reality becomes what they want you to see.

So people make assumptions based on what their leaders tell them. You think the North Koreans and Hugo Chavez's supporters have an actual reality based perception of the United States? Do you think they have any clue what actually goes on here? The people of North Korea worship Kim Jong-Il like a GOD. He's been that good of convincing them he is their salvation. When teams of foreign doctors went over there and cured thousands of people going blind from cataracts, do you think those people re-granted the gift of vision had any idea western medicine from free market capitalist societies was responsible for their vision? Of course not. It was the all the 'Dear Leader.'

When people base their arguments on the idea of who someone else is, instead of what something is, it's easier for those people to be controlled. It's also easier to recognize those people. And you'll know who they are, because they won't argue facts, they will argue what they perceive to be the motivations of their opposition. So when someone responds with a phrase like "you can't say anything unless you walk a mile in a poor man's shoes," you automatically know they think you are rich and that your opinions are based on your greed and self-interest. So then they can just discount whatever you say. They've already tricked themselves. It's just that simple. And maybe when you explain to them that you're poor, and had tough times they'll reconsider. It's been my experience they often think you are lying. Because again, conservatives can only be A) rich and B) dumb racists from the rural country.

[The Madcap]

Taxing rich people at the same rate of you are taxed (and you've let us know your job) will not help you. The rich should be taxed at a higher rate than you.

You have a lot of faith in business if you think they will take their extra money and invest it back in their business. They have had these tax rates for 8 years haven't they? How have the last 8 years been for the economy? Have the rich been investing in the jobs in the US? Or somewhere else? No one accused the rich of being stupid...just greedy.

Not me being taxed at the same rate as rich people, but the rate I'm being taxed staying the same.

IE: Say you raise taxes on people making a million a year, but keep my tax rate the same, this still doesn't help me financially.

As for business: I actually don't have a lot of faith in big businesses. I have faith in people. Most people would like to work for themselves if they could. And a lot of people that end up starting the most competitive new businesses are folks that worked for a bigger company, made some money, got tired of being under-appreciated, under-paid, or whatever, and decided to go out on their own and compete directly with them.

But these types of businesses are not getting started these days because the traditional middle class people that usually start them don't have the extra income to do it. It's going to the government. So if you cut taxes across the board, and kept them low, middle class people could start more businesses that could compete with the bigger businesses, and that would spread out the market shares of our economy, require more employees in these sectors, creating both jobs and spreading wealth. It would also reduce prices, increase wages, and promote more innovation.

I don't think letting cutting taxes for big corporations and letting them keep all their money and consolidating their power and influence is the least bit helpful, not if you don't cut middle class taxes in a real big way. But you can't cut taxes across the board like that without cutting spending. Hence why I am a believer in limited government. As silly as it will sound to you, limited government is the only way to keep big businesses in check, because it's the only way to reduce spending/taxes so that the people can offer competition to the bigger companies and keep everything spread out. High spending/taxes means the big companies have the advantage and it's harder for the little guys to get started. Which means the big companies can grease all the wheels and hog everything.

[BeatingBaseball]

You've disclosed the unvarnished truth, Madcap.

These people are zombies. They're trained like dogs - "Useful idiots," as Stalin called them.

What's really laughable is they're also trained to believe reflexively that liberal = intellectual/moral superiority and instant nobility.

It makes the world very simple for them. Dr. Pavlov (had to be a leftist) would be quite proud.

[BeatingBaseball]

No. I own an e-commerce business. Nothing from the government.

Thanks for the point transfer, bigO. And GL to you.

[The Madcap]

You've disclosed the unvarnished truth, Madcap. These people are zombies. They're trained like dogs - "Useful idiots," as Stalin called them.

What's really laughable is they're also trained to believe liberal = intellectual/moral superiority and instant nobility.

Oh yeah, nothing cracks me up more than when some liberal pipsqueak tries talking down to me and tells me to read more books, and you know, "stop watching Fox news." It's usually some idiot wearing a Che Guevera shirt. And my usual response is to ask him "So who's your favorite President?" Before Obama got elected the answer was almost always either FDR or JFK. Sometimes you'd get an LBJ. But anyway, when the idiot responds JFK, which will happen eventually, because JFK will always be in the top 2-3 for any uninformed liberal, that's when you pull some history on him, and say, "Really? JFK is your favorite President? That's interesting seeing that you're wearing a Che shirt there. You know JFK and Che were arch enemies right? You know Che said he would have fired the Soviet's missiles at the U.S. if they were his right? And that this all went down while Kennedy was in office?"

Oh the look on the face is priceless man. I can't say I've found any better way to put these morons in their place than that.

But I'm always looking. A good public shaming or two, you get that sense of humiliation crawling up their spine, they're going to start questioning all the stuff they've been fed. No one likes to look stupid. And some of them can deflect a lot if with shell game statistical arguments, but you can't be a Che supporter and have JFK be your favorite President. It just doesn't work that way. It's like being a Redsox and a Yankees fan. Buying boxers and briefs. Running a pass heavy offense with a ball control QB. You just look foolish. And they know they do. And that's when the light bulb goes off and they start to say to themselves and their friends, "hey, uh, maybe a lot of the stuff they've been feeding us is bullshit." Next thing you know they've read a few books on economics and are quoting Ludwig von Mises.

[LVHerbie]

...

[captrobey]

Im sure the government only as our best interest at heart.

[statnerds]

oh and statnerds. keep gambling away your parents money on those sorry ass NFL picks and soon you too will be able to walk a day in the poor mans shoes

I'll give you credit for your constant attempts at deflection.

25-14 is sorry ass? Wow, you must be hitting 80% then.

But back to the topic. Nice deflection.

Now stop being a third grade school girl hiding behind snide comments and explain why 46 years of transferring billions upon billions of dollars of wealth from the evil rich has done nothing to lower poverty levels.

Cut the puppet strings and produce one independent though please.

[BeatingBaseball]

Like you've said before, Madcap, libs are full of contradictions. But I guess they can do that because they're so intellectual. You must have to be really smart to hold two beliefs that fundamentally contravene each other.

As to their beloved Che, you have to love when Carlos Santana celebrates Che in his wardrobe, jewelery and I believe even with a tatoo - when anyone in Cuba would have been jailed or even executed by Che for listening to Rock or Santana-like music. It's about as humorous as Rosie O'Donnell saying "radical" Christians are more dangerous than radical Muslims (despite the little thing about Sharia law calling for the stoning of homosexuals such as herself).

[BeatingBaseball]

"Im sure the government only (h)as our best interest at heart."

Yeah - and Chairman Mao was just an "agrarian reformer."

[rkelly110]

one more thing madcrap......enjoy ur blow up doll tonight........probably a guy doll with a little penis.

As I said in earlier posts, get off your high horses, do you realize, you
could be one paycheck away from being like the people you despise?

This economy ain't done yet.

[BeatingBaseball]

Viva La Revolucion! Hope and Change! Adelante Obamunistas!

[freelee]

Again with the Jew conspiracy

Would everyone PLEASE stop talking about this...we are almost in full control and don't need to be caught this late in the game!

It's not a conspiracy you can look up who controls every dollar printed in the US but trust me it's a hook nose

[GoldenYAK]

Poll after poll shows the American People only want the tax cuts for the middle class not the millionaires and billionaires.

Bush gave tax cuts to companies who outsourced American jobs, $155 billion in corporate income literally disappeared into the pockets of a few of his goons.

While "President Bush says the "Bermuda loophole" that allows companies to move their offices offshore to avoid U.S. taxes "should be closed", he has yet to support any of the bills that would do so." Meanwhile, when Congress passed a bill barring federal contracts from going to such companies, the White House did not support it and the bill died. Because of the loopholes, in 1998, "$155 billion in corporate income literally disappeared." The top Fortune 500 corporations (which include Halliburton) who benefit from the loophole have given Bush and his allies more than $5.2 million since 2000. [Sources: ABC, 7/12/02; AP, 7/31/02; Chrs. Sci Monitor, 5/22/02; Citizen Works; Center for Responsive Politics]

Is there really any question who the GOP-Clinton-Bush-Obama alliance really works for?

Liberals fight for middle class tax cuts, pennies for the elderly, education. Republicans fight for the top 1%, mainly the top 0.05%.