No Pennies For Elderly & Disabled But Tax Breaks For The Rich?

[The Madcap]

All the eye-rolling laughter in the world can't change reality buddy. Tell me, do you even know anyone that makes 250K a year? I bet you think you do. You're not even an American. What do you know anyway?

If I make 250K a year it doesn't mean I can go jetting off to Monte Carlo every weekend. It doesn't mean I can buy a new Bentley every year. It just means I can have a place at the beach or the lake and my kids won't have to take out loans to go to college. And that's about it. A year of tuition at the best schools in the country right now runs about 50-60K. Multiply that by four kids and you're talking 200-240K a YEAR. That's a big chunk buddy. And I don't know about you, but I tend to think that if you've got to take a loan out to pay for your kids to go to college, you're not wealthy. And if you're well off enough to barely be able to avoid taking out that loan, you're not wealthy either.

[BeatingBaseball]

You are right on the money, Madcap.

The only thing I would possibly disagree with are the last two words, "conservative(s) ideology." I would submit that true conservatism is not an ideology - but rather the absence of ideology.

Ideologies are agendas designed to get people to conform to some unrealistic ideal. It has been said that conservatism is the "antidote to ideology."

[rkelly110]

Itchy and I are in agreement, the govt needs to spend within it's means. Leave the taxes alone.
If the govt can't get by on the 90% workforce, there's something seriously wrong with how
they allocate funds.

They knew this shit was coming, we knew this shit was coming. They should've kept that money
they gave out for the peoples stimulus. Remember when Bush gave families around $1300 when
the economy was tanking back then? Plus my state gave us $600 because of excess funds.

They should've been saving and tightening their belts then. I know when I have an excess
in my account, I don't go and blow it. I save for a rainy day and it's poring.

It's plain 'ol economics class 101. How hard is it? The govt acts like it wins the lottery and
goes out and blows it like a drunken sailor every chance they get.

Leave us and the rich alone. Tighten it up.

[The Madcap]

You are right on the money, Madcap.

The only thing I would possibly disagree with are the last two words, "conservative(s) ideology." I would submit that true conservatism is not an ideology - but rather the absence of ideology.

Ideologies are agendas designed to get people to conform to some unrealistic ideal. It has been said that conservatism is the "antidote to ideology."

Fair point. Although conservatism does tend to extrapolate itself out to a belief in limited government and lower taxes, and I think that qualifies as an ideology, at least in the definition of an ideology being "a systemic body of concepts especially about human life or culture." Conservatives do by and large, in my opinion anyway, hold certain truths about human nature. And these truths establish their principles which become the foundation for their ideology. But yes, I see what you're getting at.

[Grandmaster B]

All the eye-rolling laughter in the world can't change reality buddy. Tell me, do you even know anyone that makes 250K a year? I bet you think you do. You're not even an American. What do you know anyway?

If I make 250K a year it doesn't mean I can go jetting off to Monte Carlo every weekend. It doesn't mean I can buy a new Bentley every year. It just means I can have a place at the beach or the lake and my kids won't have to take out loans to go to college. And that's about it. A year of tuition at the best schools in the country right now runs about 50-60K. Multiply that by four kids and you're talking 200-240K a YEAR. That's a big chunk buddy. And I don't know about you, but I tend to think that if you've got to take a loan out to pay for your kids to go to college, you're not wealthy. And if you're well off enough to barely be able to avoid taking out that loan, you're not wealthy either.

I was born and raised in California you clown...you couldnt last a day out here

keep crying about your 250k a year...its hilarious to watch someone post who is clueless to the world

[BeatingBaseball]

My ideology, Madcap, is: "just keep your ideology away from me and leave me alone." Something the lefty ideologists can never do.

But I see your point as well. It has at this point become imperative that we express our own "ideology" because we're in such bad shape as a nation. While we were making a living, raising our kids, and watching sports - all these ideological activists of the left have been busy taking control of the culture, the government, the educational system and the media. We can no longer just mind our own business and put up with it. We have no choice.

[GoldenYAK]

Trickle down doesn't work. It's not about ideology, its about facts.



Still waiting for your trickle?




So not only are 99% of us paying a higher percentage of the tax burden, we also earn less, work later into life, and work more hours...

[The Madcap]

Trickle down doesn't work. It's not about ideology, its about facts.


Still waiting for your trickle?




So not only are 99% of us paying a higher percentage of the tax burden, we also earn less, work later into life, and work more hours...

No, I'm not waiting for my trickle. I'm waiting for the day when I can keep more than 50% of my income. When guys like me are allowed to start keeping 90% of our money, there will be more companies to compete with the rich assholes you despise. And that's the best way to get back at them. Offer them competition. Force them to lower their prices and raise their wages or go under.

Why can't you see this?

How is taxing rich people more going to help me if I'm still getting taxed the same? Please explain that. Just that one question yak. I'll ask it again: How is taxing rich people more going to help me if I'm still getting taxed the same?

If you can answer that question with anything the least bit reasoned and inspiring, you might convince some people. Because that is THE question on this issue. You find an answer to that question, then liberals and Democrats will start winning elections again.

[BeatingBaseball]

There's no argument that things are bad, YAK. What we dispute is this:

You believe that your usual leftist easy wrong answers are the solution. We know they are the cause.

Fact: If socialism and central planning worked - the U.S.S.R. would not have gone belly up.

[GoldenYAK]

USSR wasn't communism. Again increasing taxes on the rich doesn't automatically equal communism or socialism its not that simple. We can see from 50 years of fiscal conservatism that trickle down doesn't do anything besides the obvious, the rich get richer. And not ones making $250,000 a year the ones making 250 million/year. The cost is the middle class.

[BeatingBaseball]

If you don't like the average hourly wage - let's have your beloved government solve it - why don't we just have the federal government mandate a $50/hour minimum wage. I'm sure that would appeal to all those intelligent Democratic constituents. Let's see what that does for jobs and the economy.

[GoldenYAK]

If you don't like the average hourly wage - let's have your beloved government solve it - why don't we just have the federal government mandate a $50/hour minimum wage. I'm sure that would appeal to all those intelligent Democratic constituents. Let's see what that does for jobs and the economy.

Is that really what I said? I'm talking about the larger problem of the USA having the worst income inequality of any developed nation. You're being a little bitch.

[BeatingBaseball]

I never said that's what you said. It was just a suggestion that I thought would appeal to you since it's consistent with your lefty philosophy that government can somehow create wealth for people and there will be no unintended negative consequences.

Of course, intelligent people know that the government can not create wealth - only redistribute it - but it can't be redistributed until someone in the private sector creates it.

[GoldenYAK]

A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many others her age, she considered herself to be very liberal, and among other liberal ideals, was very much in favor of higher taxes to support more government programs, in other words redistribution of wealth.

She was deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch conservative, a feeling she openly expressed. Based on the lectures that she had participated in, and the occasional chat with a professor, she felt that her father had for years harbored an evil, selfish desire to keep what he thought should be his.

One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher taxes on the rich and the need for more government programs.

The self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be the truth and she indicated so to her father. He responded by asking how she was doing in school.

Taken aback, she answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was taking a very difficult course load and was constantly studying, which left her no time to go out and party like other people she knew. She didn't even have time for a boyfriend, and didn't really have many college friends because she spent all her time studying.

Her father listened and then asked, “How is your friend Audrey doing?”She replied, “Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy classes, she never studies and she barely has a 2.0 GPA. She is so popular on campus; college for her is a blast. She's always invited to all the parties and lots of times she doesn't even show up for classes because she's too hung over.”

Her wise father asked his daughter, “Why don't you go to the Dean's office and ask him to deduct 1.0 off your GPA and give it to your friend who only has a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA.”

The daughter, visibly shocked by her father's suggestion, angrily fired back, “That's a crazy idea, how would that be fair! I've worked really hard for my grades! I've invested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work! Audrey has done next to nothing toward her degree. She played while I worked my tail off!”

The father slowly smiled, winked and said gently, “Welcome to the conservative side of the fence.”

If you ever wondered what side of the fence you sit on, this is a great test!

If a conservative doesn't like guns, he doesn't buy one.If a liberal doesn't like guns, he wants all guns outlawed.

If a conservative is a vegetarian, he doesn't eat meat.If a liberal is a vegetarian, he wants all meat products banned for everyone.

If a conservative is down-and-out, he thinks about how to better his situation.A liberal wonders who is going to take care of him.

If a conservative doesn't like a talk show host, he switches channels.Liberals demand that those they don't like be shut down.

If a conservative is a non-believer, he doesn't go to church.A liberal non-believer wants any mention of God and religion silenced. (Unless it's a foreign religion, of course!)

If a conservative decides he needs health care, he goes about shopping for it, or may choose a job that provides it.A liberal demands that the rest of us pay for his.

If a conservative reads this, he'll forward it so his friends can have a good laugh.A liberal will delete it because he's "offended."

Another rip off from the far right blogOsphere, if your going to rip off some radical nut jobs propaganda how about you at least stop claiming it as your own. If we wanted your opinion we could just turn on Fox News.

http://bobsfunnies.blogspot.com/2008/05/fatherdaughter-chat.html

[GoldenYAK]

I never said that's what you said. It was just a suggestion that I thought would appeal to you since it's consistent with your lefty philosophy that government can somehow create wealth for people and there will be no unintended negative consequences.

Of course, intelligent people know that the government can not create wealth - only redistribute it - but it can't be redistributed until someone in the private sector creates it.

No one is asking the gov to create wealth. We are asking the gov to start working for the people(99% of us) and not just the super rich and corporations.

Smart government not big government.

[BeatingBaseball]

YAK - As you do not support claiming political propaganda as one's own - I hope you are always sure to credit Karl Marx when you espouse your philosophy in the forum.

[The Madcap]

USSR wasn't communism. Again increasing taxes on the rich doesn't automatically equal communism or socialism its not that simple. We can see from 50 years of fiscal conservatism that trickle down doesn't do anything besides the obvious, the rich get richer. And not ones making $250,000 a year the ones making 250 million/year. The cost is the middle class.

So are you going to answer my question Yak? Or keep avoiding it? It wouldn't shock me. No liberal has ever been able to answer that question. And that's why more Americans consider themselves conservative than liberal. It's why people tend to get more conservative as they get older. After a while, questions get raised that liberals just can't answer. But I'll ask you again....

How does raising taxes on rich people help me if my taxes stay the same?

[big0mar]

No, I'm not waiting for my trickle. I'm waiting for the day when I can keep more than 50% of my income. When guys like me are allowed to start keeping 90% of our money, there will be more companies to compete with the rich assholes you despise. And that's the best way to get back at them. Offer them competition. Force them to lower their prices and raise their wages or go under.

Why can't you see this?

How is taxing rich people more going to help me if I'm still getting taxed the same? Please explain that. Just that one question yak. I'll ask it again: How is taxing rich people more going to help me if I'm still getting taxed the same?

If you can answer that question with anything the least bit reasoned and inspiring, you might convince some people. Because that is THE question on this issue. You find an answer to that question, then liberals and Democrats will start winning elections again.

Keep 90% of your money

I don't think you quite realize why you need to pay 50% in taxes

Theres a reason gasoline is cheaper than Red Bull

[GoldenYAK]

So are you going to answer my question Yak? Or keep avoiding it? It wouldn't shock me. No liberal has ever been able to answer that question. And that's why more Americans consider themselves conservative than liberal. It's why people tend to get more conservative as they get older. After a while, questions get raised that liberals just can't answer. But I'll ask you again....

How does raising taxes on rich people help me if my taxes stay the same?

I answered your question 50 times. Bring taxes down on 99% of us, not on 1% of us. This was Obama's original plan, Republicans blocked it.

Still waiting to for you to answer my question.. how does trickle down work? Or at least point to a single instance in history were it hasn't completely failed.....

[eonizuka]

I'm not gonna get into a Dem/Rep debate because you aren't going to convince people to switch their positions most times. I will say that what Congress did blocking the benefits for 9/11 first responders and their families is disgusting. I don't care if you have to raise taxes or cut something else but for goodness sakes, find a way to give these people something.

[BeatingBaseball]

I answered your question 50 times. Bring taxes down on 99% of us, not on 1% of us. This was Obama's original plan, Republicans blocked it.

Still waiting to for you to answer my question.. how does trickle down work? Or at least point to a single instance in history were it hasn't completely failed.....

Really hard to reduce taxes on 99% when only somewhere around 47% of households pay any federal income tax whatsoever.

BTW - Do you believe, YAK, that it's a good idea that people who pay no taxes get to vote for public officials who will determine tax policy when those people have absolutely no skin in the game whatsoever? Do you see any danger there? Are you at all familiar with the concept of tyranny of the majority?

[GoldenYAK]

Really hard to reduce taxes on 99% when only somewhere around 47% of households pay any federal income tax whatsoever.

BTW - Do you believe, YAK, that it's a good idea that people who pay no taxes get to vote for public officials who will determine tax policy when those people have absolutely no skin in the game whatsoever? Do you see any danger there? Are you at all familiar with the concept of tyranny of the majority?

What?

99% pay the majority of income taxes. It's outlandish to claim that 47% of household don't pay income tax.

At least provide a source for your far right propaganda.

Are you familiar with the concept of a Plutocracy?

[BeatingBaseball]

What?

99% pay the majority of income taxes. It's outlandish to claim that 47% of household don't pay income tax.

At least provide a source for your far right propaganda.

Are you familiar with the concept of a Plutocracy?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nearly-half-of-US-households-apf-1105567323.html?x=0&.v=1

Title of above article"
Nearly half of US households escape fed income tax
Recession, new tax credits have nearly half of US households paying no federal income tax

Still outlandish?

[GoldenYAK]

I'm not gonna get into a Dem/Rep debate because you aren't going to convince people to switch their positions most times. I will say that what Congress did blocking the benefits for 9/11 first responders and their families is disgusting. I don't care if you have to raise taxes or cut something else but for goodness sakes, find a way to give these people something.

The Republicans signed a letter saying they wouldn't pass a single piece of legislation until the tax cuts for the rich were extended.

We need to prioritize. Republicans want wars and tax cuts for the rich. Liberals want lower health care costs, benefits for unemployed, tax cuts for 9/11 first responders and middle class.

[BeatingBaseball]

For 2008:

Who Pays Income Taxes and how much?



Tax Year 2008

Percentiles Ranked by AGI
AGI Threshold on Percentiles
Percentage of Federal Personal Income Tax Paid

Top 1%
$380,354
38.02

Top 5%
$159,619
58.72

Top 10%
$113,799
69.94

Top 25%
$67,280
86.34

Top 50%
$33,048
97.30

Bottom 50%
<$33,048
2.7

Note: AGI is Adjusted Gross Income
Source: Internal Revenue Service

[GoldenYAK]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nearly....html?x=0&.v=1

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/incometaxandtheirs/a/whopaysmost.htm

The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid 33.7 percent of all individual income taxes in 2002.
So the bottom 99% pays 66.3%. (that's a majority)

Do you think it's a good thing that the Super rich earn so much that they in turn pay 33.7%?? It wasn't always like that. We used to have higher tax rates on the rich but, becuase the middle class made a good salary they actually paid a higher percentage of the tax burden. But for 50 years tax rates on the very rich have been cut and cut and cut again. Meanwhile the middle class is paying an even higher percentage of the tax burden.

You need to look at the entire picture of what has happened with tax rates and wealth redistribution for the last 50 years, not just since Obama has taken office.

[BeatingBaseball]

So YAK, now that you know my statement was anything but "outlandish," do you want to answer the question:

Do you believe that it's a good idea that people who pay no taxes get to vote for public officials who will determine tax policy when those people have absolutely no skin in the game whatsoever?

Do you see any danger there?

Are you at all familiar with the concept of tyranny of the majority?

They say the government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.

I can assure you - if the illegals pouring across our Southern border were Peters, conservative voters, and not Pauls - Obama and Pelosi would be down there personally putting up the fence.

[GoldenYAK]

Have you heard of Plutocracy?

[Tsonga]

entertaining video where a chickenhawk gets owned

thanks for posting that...good video.

[GoldenYAK]

So YAK, now that you know my statement was anything but "outlandish," do you want to answer the question:

Do you believe that it's a good idea that people who pay no taxes get to vote for public officials who will determine tax policy when those people have absolutely no skin in the game whatsoever?

Do you see any danger there?

Are you at all familiar with the concept of tyranny of the majority?

They say the government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.

I can assure you - if the illegals pouring across our Southern border were Peters, conservative voters, and not Pauls - Obama and Pelosi would be down there personally putting up the fence.

People pay more then just income tax. If you make less then 1 million per year there is no reason to vote Republican. The economy did better when we had higher rates on the super rich, read a book on US history.

[Tsonga]

Madcap No, I'm not waiting for my trickle. I'm waiting for the day when I can keep more than 50% of my income. When guys like me are allowed to start keeping 90% of our money, there will be more companies to compete with the rich assholes you despise. And that's the best way to get back at them. Offer them competition. Force them to lower their prices and raise their wages or go under.

Why can't you see this?

How is taxing rich people more going to help me if I'm still getting taxed the same? Please explain that. Just that one question yak. I'll ask it again: How is taxing rich people more going to help me if I'm still getting taxed the same?

Taxing rich people at the same rate of you are taxed (and you've let us know your job) will not help you. The rich should be taxed at a higher rate than you.

You have a lot of faith in business if you think they will take their extra money and invest it back in their business. They have had these tax rates for 8 years haven't they? How have the last 8 years been for the economy? Have the rich been investing in the jobs in the US? Or somewhere else? No one accused the rich of being stupid...just greedy.

[BeatingBaseball]

All you nimrods who think that people who have a business make that heavy money without breaking a sweat by just ripping off both their customers and employees should really get together - start one - and see just how easy it is. It would be very educational. Too bad Obama, Biden & co. never tried it. You'd soon understand that in the real world of the free market people don't just hand over wads of money to you. You see, they have a choice. You have to offer them a value proposition - and it better be a good one. It is only to the government that we must fork over money without a value proposition or a choice.

[GoldenYAK]

It's about the middle class handing over wads of class to the super rich. The republicans give tax breaks to the rich which provide zero economic growth, and that in turn shifts the remaining tax burden onto the middle class.

Your argument is pathetic, typical Glenn Beck lunacy. Get a job. Stop wasting you life sitting in front of the television watching Fox.

[BeatingBaseball]

Get a job. Great idea. Where did you get yours, YAK? From a poor guy?

[lyon804]

All you nimrods who think that people who have a business make that heavy money without breaking a sweat by just ripping off both their customers and employees should really get together - start one - and see just how easy it is. It would be very educational. Too bad Obama, Biden & co. never tried it. You'd soon understand that in the real world of the free market people don't just hand over wads of money to you. You see, they have a choice. You have to offer them a value proposition - and it better be a good one. It is only to the government that we must fork over money without a value proposition or a choice.

You and Madcap are on fire. Another solid post. Are libby friends in here seem to think business is evil empire and government is wonderful.. All business just fukk people from there money