Traditional betting is difficult these days

[eidolon]

If you have 5 different professions, are you still a professional in each?
Let's say you have 5 different jobs that you put time in to every week, and you count the income from all 5 ventures as your income for the year, wouldn't that mean you are a professional in each venture?

[stevenash]

^
Yes.

There are several definitions of the word 'professional' however...

If one is one has a particular skill or qualification and gets paid for that, than one by definition is a 'professional'

I write, I love to write, I write as a side hustle and as a hobby, sometimes I get a piece published and get paid for that. By definition and if you wish to play the semantics game, you could, and correctly say i am a 'professional' writer, which I don't consider myself to be, because that's not my main source of income.

[jjgold]

There are very very few professional gambler’s in the state of Nevada. There’s lucky if there’s five.

[eidolon]

[milwaukee mike]

If you have 5 different professions, are you still a professional in each?
Let's say you have 5 different jobs that you put time in to every week, and you count the income from all 5 ventures as your income for the year, wouldn't that mean you are a professional in each venture?

that's what i'm getting at

you're a professional driver if you drive for uber/lyft... you might only do it part time and make 5k/year but you're still professional vs recreational

the $ amount shouldn't determine the status, because it would be different for everyone anyway

[milwaukee mike]

Mike thinks he led the Underground Railroad during covid and should have history books written about him. Not sure his opinion is what I would be taking

please keep politics/covid discussions in the proper place

nobody cares to see you take stupid off topic cheap shots at posters or troll

[stevenash]

Good thread. A lot of wise advice

When KVB speaks, I listen.
When LB makes a wager, I pay attention.

Yes, good thread indeed.

There is a modicum of hope here at SBR.

[milwaukee mike]

There are very very few professional gambler’s in the state of Nevada. There’s lucky if there’s five.

that's completely ridiculous and untrue

[d2bets]

that's what i'm getting at

you're a professional driver if you drive for uber/lyft... you might only do it part time and make 5k/year but you're still professional vs recreational

the $ amount shouldn't determine the status, because it would be different for everyone anyway

Maybe semi-professional?

I mean, should the guy who makes $5k/yr be in the same category as the guy who makes $500k/yr? Semantics.

[Nate rasta]

My bad wrong posted in wrong thread lol

[jjgold]

that's completely ridiculous and untrue

Mike..wait ..I define a pro ZERO INCOME FROM ANYONE OTHER THAN SPORTSBETTING

[milwaukee mike]

Mike..wait ..I define a pro ZERO INCOME FROM ANYONE OTHER THAN SPORTSBETTING

that might be closer to true then... so many "professional" poker players ended up making almost all of their money from endorsements... professional slot/blackjack players made it from selling books... etc

[milwaukee mike]

Maybe semi-professional?

I mean, should the guy who makes $5k/yr be in the same category as the guy who makes $500k/yr? Semantics.

yeah, it's an interesting discussion

am i still a recreational drug user if i smoke 4 times/week and pop pills every day? or does that become professional

[d2bets]

Mike..wait ..I define a pro ZERO INCOME FROM ANYONE OTHER THAN SPORTSBETTING

That's total nonsense. True pros have multiple sources of income. No need to limit to one.

I'd define a pro as someone who wins >$50k every year over more than 1,000 wagers. Bare minimums. And that's semi-pro. Real pro is >$200k/yr over 5,000+ wagers.

[stevenash]

My bad wrong posted in wrong thread lol

Rookie mistake, all good.

[milwaukee mike]

That's total nonsense. True pros have multiple sources of income. No need to limit to one.

I'd define a pro as someone who wins >$50k every year over more than 1,000 wagers. Bare minimums. And that's semi-pro. Real pro is >$200k/yr over 5,000+ wagers.

what if the pro makes 30k from wagers, 20k from promos, 20k from advantage play on slots/vp?

that probably seems more like a "vegas guy" approach, hardly anyone puts through the kind of volume you do, with an edge on that many bets

[d2bets]

what if the pro makes 30k from wagers, 20k from promos, 20k from advantage play on slots/vp?

that probably seems more like a "vegas guy" approach, hardly anyone puts through the kind of volume you do, with an edge on that many bets

I suppose yeah if you're expanding beyond just sports betting. Which is fine, because the idea that you can only be pro if you do nothing else, is ridiculous.

[KVB]

How did you file your taxes? Did you gamble with intent to win and can you show it? Did you gamble as a business and can you show it with time, energy, and records?

That's what could come up in an audit, it's not just numbers.

But come on man, the pro discussion in this thread is utterly ridiculous and JJ Gold is actually the closest but, instead of zero other income, it's very simple.

When you file your taxes, does the majority of your income come from gambling and was that intentional? Did you use a schedule C for wins and losses, or A? That's what makes you a professional gambler.

That's it. All the other nonsense in this thread about it is just that, nonsense. Keep it simple.

Does the majority of your income come from gambling? Did you file that way? If you told the IRS that you're a professional gambler can you prove it to their standards, to the code?

That's what makes you a professional gambler. There are standards that must be met. It's not the IRS that says you are a pro, it's you telling them you are a pro and they have standards that need to be met.

I would also add that in some states, like Wisconsin, casual bettors cannot deduct gambling losses but professional bettors can. There is no such thing as part time or semi pro. It's pro, or not. Note that they can subtract losses in "gambling sessions" to have a net gain each session but they cannot deduct negative sessions.

Here's another question you can ask.

Did you pay a self employment tax on your net gambling winnings?

[KVB]

If you want to be a professional gambler, then you need to gamble professionally.

A 1987 Supreme Court case (Commissioner vs. Groetzinger) ruling helped spell out for gamblers the difference between trade or professional gambling and a hobby.

The IRS went on to spell out the differences between a business and a hobby, including some 9 factors that they feel should normally be taken into account.

Always remember...

In determining whether an activity is engaged in for profit, greater weight is given to objective facts than to the taxpayer's mere statement of his intent.

ECFR...

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-26/chapter-I/subchapter-A/part-1/subject-group-ECFRcc67ec453a5e514/section-1.183-2

FAQ with a tighter summary...

https://www.irs.gov/faqs/small-business-self-employed-other-business/income-expenses/income-expenses

There are not multiple definitions of professional when it comes to this discussion.

At the professional level, gambling is a business.

[Nate rasta]

Blowouts can kill your player props,your player might sit out half the game

[miaplus3]

The think thats irritating to me is parlaying half & quarters across multiple teams/leagues. You have to hit soooo many keystrokes to get to the accept screen. I think the "same game" parlay features are way too much juice. Just let us parlay them on the stated money lines & duck.

[lakerboy]

If you want to be a professional gambler, then you need to gamble professionally.

A 1987 Supreme Court case (Commissioner vs. Groetzinger) ruling helped spell out for gamblers the difference between trade or professional gambling and a hobby.

The IRS went on to spell out the differences between a business and a hobby, including some 9 factors that they feel should normally be taken into account.

Always remember...



ECFR...

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-26/chapter-I/subchapter-A/part-1/subject-group-ECFRcc67ec453a5e514/section-1.183-2

FAQ with a tighter summary...

https://www.irs.gov/faqs/small-business-self-employed-other-business/income-expenses/income-expenses

There are not multiple definitions of professional when it comes to this discussion.

At the professional level, gambling is a business.

If anything you should be discussing discipline on this site. The rest we all know.

[Smoke]

If you're a bulk bettor and must have action on anything that is on TV I guarantee you're a loser.

The successful sports bettors are spot bettors.

Do your homework, seek out value, pick your spots.

If you don't enjoy analytics, if you don't enjoy math, if you don't enjoy sports, and you want to be successful this isn't for you.

Hey there nashy any thoughts on the potato or lending tree bowl thx In advance

[kingdom]

I would say most professional gamblers don't have time to post on this site and squabble with the avg every day gambler. when the question is proposed as to what is your profession, it is typically how you support yourself and family. Less than 1% here are beyond recreational and there is nothing wrong with that. Gambling is typically an addiction more that a source of income. some control it like a small coke habit.
Winning is fun and we all love that feeling. Not being addicted and out of control is the most important thing. learned that the hard way.

[Sawyer]

Who is still messing with traditional straight betting in 2022? Everybody became bonus whore or busy with arbing.

[stevenash]

Hey there nashy any thoughts on the potato or lending tree bowl thx In advance

Smokey?
Long time fella, where have you been hiding?

San Jose State 31
Eastern Michigan 24

and

Southern Miss 27
Rice 13

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

And Smokey, don't be a stranger.

[icon]

Prop bets is the way to go.

prop bets is the fastest way to limit town here in Ontario, B365, BetRivers, Pointsbet, MGM all limit quickly if betting props with success.

The other way to get limited quickly is betting alt lines for the max.

[JohnGalt2341]

Good thread. A lot of wise advice

Yes indeed. Even after your post.

[jjgold]

Bet recreationally and have fun because most will destroy their lives if too into it

[deltgen]

Prop bets is the way to go.

FWIW, I have a great deal of success this NFL season on one particular prop. If a game is being played in a dome or closed roof stadium, I take the "longest FG to be made". The number is usually between 46.5 yards and 47.5 yards. This isn't the 70s anymore--these kickers can make 50 FGs in their sleep.

[Natty68]

Don't a lot of supposedly 'pro' sports bettors also dabble at the poker tables? IMHO a bet should feel nice when you win and sting a little when you lose. For me that means a couple hundred bucks a bet. These guys betting their mortgage or car-note dough..........I just don't get it. Do the books even take it to the level of a 'visit from Vinnie'. anymore?

[EasyCover]

exchanges now booting NJ players you cannot make this up
Go on twtiter and read up sportstrade

I looked this up JJ. Can you tell me where to find this?

[jjgold]

go look up Spanky on twitter

Deposited 6 figures booted next day

NJ pro

[lakerboy]

I looked this up JJ. Can you tell me where to find this?

https://twitter.com/spanky/status/1012350436827979777?t=dOrmuL7wZnQSdo7QbAQdbA&s=19

[EasyCover]

go look up Spanky on twitter

Deposited 6 figures booted next day




NJ pro

I think this was William Hill, not Sporttrade.