Democratic Convention Live Thread

**grease lightnin** · 08-01-16, 07:18 AM

“Was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Qur’an, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman (Muslim) who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise.”

^^^

Interesting citation, for sure.

But I am not arguing against this. I agree that radical Islam is out to get us, and everyone that is not Muslim.

But alienating our own Muslims that are not yet radicalized is not the answer. That doesn't align with our values.

There are Muslims that are peaceful, and that believe their religion is one of peace. There are PHD's who have spent their entire lives studying this that can make very compelling arguments to this point. Believe me, I have looked at all sides.

Do I agree with them? Not necessarily, but as long as they are Americans, I don't have to agree with them. They have the right to practice their religion in peace.

And on top of the rights afforded to these Muslim Americans, for our own plight as white Americans, it certainly doesn't help us to alienate them.

**rkelly110** · 08-01-16, 07:27 AM

Originally posted by Dr.Gonzo

Let's use France as an example of alienating Muslims from their society and what is going on there.

The US doesn't alienate, they are incorporated. They aren't discriminated against and free to roam wherever.

The left won't call them what the right does, because it would be grouping all in one category which they
are not.

We have more "terrorism" from our own citizens than Muslim terrorists. More cops are getting killed, because
they kill and are being paid back by our own home grown terrorists. See how hate begets hate?

Since blacks do most of the crime, I guess we should call all of them scum. Most of the school shootings
were white kids, maybe call all kids murdering punks.

Labeling creates animosity which could create more violence.

**Dr.Gonzo** · 08-01-16, 07:28 AM

Originally posted by grease lightnin

“Was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Qur’an, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman (Muslim) who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise.”

^^^

Interesting citation, for sure.

But I am not arguing against this. I agree that radical Islam is out to get us, and everyone that is not Muslim.

But alienating our own Muslims that are not yet radicalized is not the answer. That doesn't align with our values.

There are Muslims that are peaceful, and that believe their religion is one of peace. There are PHD's who have spent their entire lives studying this that can make very compelling arguments to this point. Believe me, I have looked at all sides.

Do I agree with them? Not necessarily, but as long as they are Americans, I don't have to agree with them. They have the right to practice their religion in peace.

And on top of the rights afforded to these Muslim Americans, for our own plight as white Americans, it certainly doesn't help us to alienate them.

Acquiescence to Islamism is the antithesis of everything America stood for.

Islam is cancer.

There are peaceful Muslims because they are fundamentally good people who do not take Islam literally, whether they are cognitive of this fact or not.

You can't help but alienate Islam if you believe in anything worth standing for.

Islam has does nothing for the west, it doesn't belong.

**Dr.Gonzo** · 08-01-16, 07:31 AM

Originally posted by rkelly110

Let's use France as an example of alienating Muslims from their society and what is going on there.

The US doesn't alienate, they are incorporated. They aren't discriminated against and free to roam wherever.

The left won't call them what the right does, because it would be grouping all in one category which they
are not.

We have more "terrorism" from our own citizens than Muslim terrorists. More cops are getting killed, because
they kill and are being paid back by our own home grown terrorists. See how hate begets hate?

Since blacks do most of the crime, I guess we should call all of them scum. Most of the school shootings
were white kids, maybe call all kids murdering punks.

Labeling creates animosity which could create more violence.

I fundamentally disagree.

There's alot to unpack, I'll give a detailed response when I have more time later.

**grease lightnin** · 08-01-16, 07:33 AM

Originally posted by itchypickle

You need to get out and meet real people and not political straw men on this topic man...all I can say. Yes Trump three that out at a stump speech much like Hillary and Bernie say we can all have free college and Obama said we'd all have free health care and keep doctors ..but when talking about it more focused he's said the ban on ones coming from the areas of war. And no...the refugee program appearance of the govt knowing all is not as they say. They've admitted as much when asked. This is because of lack of records like we keep in the US and fraudulent papers.

Biden doesn't have a clue obviously then about the tons of young Muslims in America who get radicalized in prison...and the ones who come here already radicalized but blend in and wait. As I said before...of course not all Muslims are bad that's an ignorant statement...but you have to address the ones that are and not appease it.

You know itchy, we seem to agree on all of this.

The only things we don't agree on is that I think it is being handled now, and you don't. And you think Trump is the answer, and I don't. You can't just "throw things out there" as he does. Look at the response.

It is plain that he is about division, which I believe will only make things worse.

I think we should hold on to our core values, and unify up under them. This is not the easiest thing, but the right thing never is the easiest thing.

**grease lightnin** · 08-01-16, 07:35 AM

Originally posted by Dr.Gonzo

Lincoln never envisioned blacks assimilating into America, read his thoughts.

America was founded by white, predominantly Christian men, and the constitution was supposed to protect their way of life and shared values.

Any argument that tries to use the founders thoughts as a means to support the increased Islamization of America is fundamentally dishonest, that is why I mentioned it.

Make an honest case, don't appeal to bullshit.

Lincoln didn't think we could free the slaves and have them live peacefully amongst us. It appears he was right.

But he did believe that slavery was contradictory of the Constitution and he was right.

**grease lightnin** · 08-01-16, 07:38 AM

Originally posted by Dr.Gonzo

Acquiescence to Islamism is the antithesis of everything America stood for.

Islam is cancer.

There are peaceful Muslims because they are fundamentally good people who do not take Islam literally, whether they are cognitive of this fact or not.

You can't help but alienate Islam if you believe in anything worth standing for.

Islam has does nothing for the west, it doesn't belong.

I tend to agree that Islam is a cancer. But there are many peaceful Muslims who don't agree with that.

This is America bub. Freedom is freedom is freedom.

Freedom is not "freedom for whites only".

**rkelly110** · 08-01-16, 07:53 AM

Originally posted by grease lightnin

I tend to agree that Islam is a cancer. But there are many peaceful Muslims who don't agree with that.

This is America bub. Freedom is freedom is freedom.

Freedom is not "freedom for whites only".

Reading the constitution and the bills of rights will shut them down. There's not a single discriminating element in
any of those documents.

**chico2663** · 08-01-16, 08:12 AM

Originally posted by grease lightnin

What you posted only proved one thing... and that is that Khan, a Muslim lawyer, once lived in Saudi Arabia and wrote an article on Islamic law in the 1980's in which he cited another Muslim lawyer's works on Islamic law. And this lawyer he cited in an article he wrote over 30 yrs ago, was in a Muslim organization in Malaysia that is connected with the Muslim Brotherhood.

Garbage. You are smarter than that.

No he is not. Dumbass doesn't realize that the name kahn in the muslim world is like smith or jones in america or rivera and garcis in the spanish world.

**chico2663** · 08-01-16, 08:15 AM

Originally posted by itchypickle

You need to get out and meet real people and not political straw men on this topic man...all I can say. Yes Trump three that out at a stump speech much like Hillary and Bernie say we can all have free college and Obama said we'd all have free health care and keep doctors ..but when talking about it more focused he's said the ban on ones coming from the areas of war. And no...the refugee program appearance of the govt knowing all is not as they say. They've admitted as much when asked. This is because of lack of records like we keep in the US and fraudulent papers.

Biden doesn't have a clue obviously then about the tons of young Muslims in America who get radicalized in prison...and the ones who come here already radicalized but blend in and wait. As I said before...of course not all Muslims are bad that's an ignorant statement...but you have to address the ones that are and not appease it.

those are blacks that convert. We really don't have muslims in jail.

**chico2663** · 08-01-16, 08:19 AM

I can't wait til trump loses so these trump supporters can slink back whatever rock they came out of. Funny thing is their biggest idiots don't live in the usa. They live in costa rica or great britian. No packerd I'm not talking about you because you have always been decent in dialogue.

**itchypickle** · 08-01-16, 08:22 AM

Originally posted by grease lightnin

You know itchy, we seem to agree on all of this.

The only things we don't agree on is that I think it is being handled now, and you don't. And you think Trump is the answer, and I don't. You can't just "throw things out there" as he does. Look at the response.

It is plain that he is about division, which I believe will only make things worse.

I think we should hold on to our core values, and unify up under them. This is not the easiest thing, but the right thing never is the easiest thing.

I agree on the core values. But you have to expect those who we let in adhere to those as well. Same goes for any immigrants....come here legally but come here to work and give back...don't just come to get free stuff. The European refugee mess is a good example the past few years....refugees come in and their leaders ask for areas to do their own thing...they are given them and go back to just like the street vendors in Kabul or Damascus and it's a self segregating economy. Then they resent seeing European culture and it's a clash and suddenly the refugees are the victims in the press. I'll emphasize again...its not solely the religion it's the culture. It's what they know and the elders like to keep it so and it sets the younger ones up for sure failure. I just wish politicians didn't misrepresent everyone as a block.

As far as Trump goes...the appeal he has is the exact reason others don't like him...he isn't a polished robot who was hand picked by the same group of behind the scenes players to continued their joint little power model. Normal people like that but the political world and media circles cannot stand it because it can't be controlled. Maybe I'm wrong...and if so I'll criticize myself and him as well but I believe Trump will honestly not sell us out and will try and change things. Won't be easy but seeing as how reporters hate him...both left and right career politicians hate him, Military circles of the operations level and not politically ambishous ones support him and look at donations from the Wall St masters of the Universe...90%+ to Hillary from hedge funds because they know she'll play ball.....I like that.

**grease lightnin** · 08-01-16, 08:43 AM

Itchy, we agree on a lot.

Re: europe, that is europe. What you described is very limited here.

Re: Trump. You said "he will not sell us out and he will try to change things."

What do you want him to change and how do you think this will help you?

**rkelly110** · 08-01-16, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by itchypickle

I agree on the core values. But you have to expect those who we let in adhere to those as well. Same goes for any immigrants....come here legally but come here to work and give back...don't just come to get free stuff. The European refugee mess is a good example the past few years....refugees come in and their leaders ask for areas to do their own thing...they are given them and go back to just like the street vendors in Kabul or Damascus and it's a self segregating economy. Then they resent seeing European culture and it's a clash and suddenly the refugees are the victims in the press. I'll emphasize again...its not solely the religion it's the culture. It's what they know and the elders like to keep it so and it sets the younger ones up for sure failure. I just wish politicians didn't misrepresent everyone as a block.

As far as Trump goes...the appeal he has is the exact reason others don't like him...he isn't a polished robot who was hand picked by the same group of behind the scenes players to continued their joint little power model. Normal people like that but the political world and media circles cannot stand it because it can't be controlled. Maybe I'm wrong...and if so I'll criticize myself and him as well but I believe Trump will honestly not sell us out and will try and change things. Won't be easy but seeing as how reporters hate him...both left and right career politicians hate him, Military circles of the operations level and not politically ambishous ones support him and look at donations from the Wall St masters of the Universe...90%+ to Hillary from hedge funds because they know she'll play ball.....I like that.

I like a lot of what Trump says, I don't like how he says it.

If another Repub candidate was saying the same thing w/o all the hate and baby games. I might vote for him.

Hillary is appeasing her voting block. We all know from her past dealings, she's a tough cookie. If she gets elected
look for a complete turn around on what she's saying now.

**grease lightnin** · 08-01-16, 09:23 AM

Republicans are distancing themselves from Trump as a result of his comments regarding the Kahns.

http://wapo.st/2atmJPw

**chico2663** · 08-01-16, 09:35 AM

Seems the article of mr. kahn being a member of muslim brotherhood came from Roger stone. This is the only guy I know of being banned from talk shows on msnbc and cnn for lying so much. Fox would have to get rid of to many of their pundits if they lived up to the other ones. Oh yeah ; he was banned before trump was the leader in the republican primaries so no wasn't clinton.

**grease lightnin** · 08-01-16, 09:35 AM

“Mr. Khan, who does not know me, viciously attacked me from the stage of the DNC and is now all over T.V. doing the same — Nice!”

Trump tweet. This is your pick fellas. LoL

Read that Washpo article. What an embarrassment this guy is.

**Dr.Gonzo** · 08-01-16, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by rkelly110

Let's use France as an example of alienating Muslims from their society and what is going on there.

The US doesn't alienate, they are incorporated. They aren't discriminated against and free to roam wherever.

The left won't call them what the right does, because it would be grouping all in one category which they
are not.

We have more "terrorism" from our own citizens than Muslim terrorists. More cops are getting killed, because
they kill and are being paid back by our own home grown terrorists. See how hate begets hate?

Since blacks do most of the crime, I guess we should call all of them scum. Most of the school shootings
were white kids, maybe call all kids murdering punks.

Labeling creates animosity which could create more violence.

France does not alienate Muslims from their societies, if anything Muslims self segregate and fail to integrate. Regardless, if you have issues with France not being tolerant enough you can look at other European nations that have taken mass Islamic migration and see similar results. You can't be more accommodating than Sweden and all they have achieved is becoming one of the rape capitals of the world.

There are no ethnic ghettos in America? Falsehood.

The only bias that exists in the police force is one against whites.

Blacks have violent tendencies and this needs to be acknowledged as a fact and discussed, even if you want to cop out and blame environmental factors. Whites are underrepresented in mass shootings proportionally, you've accepted a false narrative.

Facts are facts.

If you taken issue with any claim, dispute it and I'll try and provide a source.

**Dr.Gonzo** · 08-01-16, 09:50 AM

Originally posted by grease lightnin

Lincoln didn't think we could free the slaves and have them live peacefully amongst us. It appears he was right.

But he did believe that slavery was contradictory of the Constitution and he was right.

If blacks have failed to live peacefully among us, why would adding another group which has shown to be less wiling to integrate be a wise decision.

Yes, when the black sued to be allowed to own slaves his case should have been thrown out.

**Dr.Gonzo** · 08-01-16, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by grease lightnin

I tend to agree that Islam is a cancer. But there are many peaceful Muslims who don't agree with that.

This is America bub. Freedom is freedom is freedom.

Freedom is not "freedom for whites only".

You take too non-consequentialist of a position, if you accept Islam is cancer you have an obligation to act of that belief.

There's not much real freedom left in America, and if you're going to use that argument you must also make that case when it is not politically expedient, which I never see leftists do.

Whites are the only people who have shown any tendency to support individualism and liberty, so whilst other races who share those values can be welcomed if whites cease to control the destiny of America freedom will be restricted even further.

**Dr.Gonzo** · 08-01-16, 10:04 AM

Originally posted by grease lightnin

Republicans are distancing themselves from Trump as a result of his comments regarding the Kahns.

http://wapo.st/2atmJPw

Cucks and neocons, they were already there.

When immigration became and issue we tried to raise demographic concerns with "conservative inc." and they wouldn't address said concerns.

Ask them how are we going to win elections in the future with an increased "latino" demographic given their tendency to support socialist policy.

Ask them what they have to say about the fact that Romney would have won in a bigger landside than Reagan if the demographics were the same.

Ask them what they have to say about the fact that Reagan couldn't get elected today.

Whilst they turned their back to this issue, the Democrat Party was happy to import more voters, progressives gloat that when the demographics change they'll be able to ban guns.

**King Mayan** · 08-01-16, 10:09 AM

**MoneyLineDawg** · 08-01-16, 10:10 AM

Originally posted by jtoler

I figured youd be the next turncoat, just a couple more Trump flops and youll be all the way there.

Originally posted by ACoochy

Welcome to well over 12 months ago Dawg....

Welcome to the side of less evil. Unfortunately given the choice thats about as good as things will get...

I still like Trump much more than Hillary overall but I'm just saying that he really needs to cut the bullshit if he wants to win...which maybe he doesn't after all? Just stick to your main ideas and bashing Hillary, all of these side fights are what brings him down

Im never supporting Hillary but a 3rd Party candidate may get my vote over Trump in the end....Will have to see how this thing plays out

**ACoochy** · 08-01-16, 10:15 AM

Originally posted by MoneyLineDawg

I still like Trump much more than Hillary overall but I'm just saying that he really needs to cut the bullshit if he wants to win...which maybe he doesn't after all? Just stick to your main ideas and bashing Hillary, all of these side fights are what brings him down

Im never supporting Hillary but a 3rd Party candidate may get my vote over Trump in the end....Will have to see how this thing plays out

It's not at Trump doesn't want to win it's that the person you see is the person who he really is...

Here's a good idea. Let's put someone who acts on impulse in charge of nuclear launch codes.

I mean what could possibly go wrong, right??

**d2bets** · 08-01-16, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by MoneyLineDawg

I still like Trump much more than Hillary overall but I'm just saying that he really needs to cut the bullshit if he wants to win...which maybe he doesn't after all? Just stick to your main ideas and bashing Hillary, all of these side fights are what brings him down

Im never supporting Hillary but a 3rd Party candidate may get my vote over Trump in the end....Will have to see how this thing plays out

Good post. Who knows if he really wants to win. It's either that, or he literally lacks all impulse control and self-discipline. Neither is good, is it? I mean, I am sure people around him keep telling him to cut the bullshit. And he just can't do it. Over and over. He can't help himself. Is that the kind of President you want? One who cannot control bad impulses. And you cannot tell me that if he wins he will suddenly change who he is. Nobody can believe that. It's been over a year now and even he says he will become "presidential", but ain't happening. Guy is 70 and he does what he wants. And most of it is not good.

Plenty of people warned Trump supporters. They just didn't listen. They will now get President Hillary for their efforts. Trump supporters will be to blame/thank for the Hillary presidency. Any other Republican would have likely skated to victory.

**Dr.Gonzo** · 08-01-16, 10:24 AM

Originally posted by d2bets

Good post. Who knows if he really wants to win. It's either that, or he literally lacks all impulse control and self-discipline. Neither is good, is it? I mean, I am sure people around him keep telling him to cut the bullshit. And he just can't do it. Over and over. He can't help himself. Is that the kind of President you want? One who cannot control bad impulses. And you cannot tell me that if he wins he will suddenly change who he is. Nobody can believe that. It's been over a year now and even he says he will become "presidential", but ain't happening. Guy is 70 and he does what he wants. And most of it is not good.

Plenty of people warned Trump supporters. They just didn't listen. They will now get President Hillary for their efforts. Trump supporters will be to blame/thank for the Hillary presidency. Any other Republican would have likely skated to victory.

This is nonsense, there's no basis to make the claim that another Republican would have beaten Hillary Clinton easily.

The left would roll out the same playbook against another weak candidate who refuses to fight back.

Rolling over like a PC bitch never worked for McCain or Romney.

**MoneyLineDawg** · 08-01-16, 10:25 AM

Some of these fights are him defending himself against constant attacks but a few of these are just dumb, no other way to say it

Hes gotta learn to pick his battles but it doesn't seem like he's interested in turning down any possible fight

I was initially drawn to his America First ideas more than anything else. I feel like a moderate candidate with some of his ideas who isn't all over the place could run away with the next election....atleast Trump has proven that Americans are truly sick of the Hillary types who you just know are in it for themselves and the elite

**DwightShrute** · 08-01-16, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by ACoochy

It's not at Trump doesn't want to win it's that the person you see is the person who he really is...

Here's a good idea. Let's put someone who acts on impulse in charge of nuclear launch codes.

I mean what could possibly go wrong, right??

you act like the president can just wake up in a shitty mood and decide to launch nukes at a specific country all by himself.

too much CNN and too much tv.

**chico2663** · 08-01-16, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by Dr.Gonzo

This is nonsense, there's no basis to make the claim that another Republican would have beaten Hillary Clinton easily.

The left would roll out the same playbook against another weak candidate who refuses to fight back.

Rolling over like a PC bitch never worked for McCain or Romney.

As i said before if you don't live here you don't understand here. We don't have the enclaves here that you have in europe. We allow them to go school to further their education. You will find a muslim who came here broke who now owns the jax. jaquars. You will find them as television broadcaster eg sandra ali. you will see them playing professional sports. We allow the cream to rise to the top.
As far as we don't know. Kasich had a double digit lead over Hillary. The clinton machine was scared to death of marco rubio. So I think we know she had a sigh of relief when she seen donald win. HE IS THE ONLY CANDIDATE WITH THE SAME AMOUNT OF NEGATIVES AS HER! Everything being equal then the machine always wins. The dems have not been any better than repubs in presidential elections.It is just what has risen because of the teabags. Reagan would never been nominated under this process. We would have more goldwater picks

**JIBBBY** · 08-01-16, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by Dr.Gonzo

That Muslim father had no right calling Trump a dark soul and say he didn't read the constitution at the DNC.. He never met Trump before that speech..

I think Trump had every right to defend himself as he's trying to win an election.. The wife was a mute also..

Trump praised the Son and called him an American hero which he was, but he doesn't have to praise the father if he's making comments like that.. Media twisted this story as usual to put Trump in a bad light.. What else is new?

**JIBBBY** · 08-01-16, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by Dr.Gonzo

You thought it was a great point to assert that hurting a Muslims feeling causes them to be a terrorist.

No, it was a ridiculous argument. The best thing for American Muslims would be a temporary halt in immigration so radicals can be kept out of the population. Importing Islamist's preaching radicalism will inspire more radicals.

I agree and it's just the safe thing to do in these times of terror.. Hillary, the Dems, Liberals just can't grasp this idea unless terror strikes them in the face..

**JIBBBY** · 08-01-16, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by Dr.Gonzo

Trump's wrong when it comes to censorship of the internet but ISIS and terrorist recruiting on social media need to be combated.

They should be shut down immediately by a provocative task force.

I've been preaching this for a year now.. Isis should be censored on the internet just like we do child porn.. Nothing good comes from Isis propaganda on the internet here in America...

Again this is just a no brainer but our leaders can't seem to grasp this concept either in regards to the future safety of the American people..

**itchypickle** · 08-01-16, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by grease lightnin

Itchy, we agree on a lot.

Re: europe, that is europe. What you described is very limited here.

Re: Trump. You said "he will not sell us out and he will try to change things."

What do you want him to change and how do you think this will help you?

Have to preface this with the obviousness that these are his overall plans...they of course will have to negotiated through congress before implementation and I'm sure things will be added and deleted but it's a great starting point....

Taxes- He's offered to help the lower earners pay zero income tax...less than $25k single or $50k married ....so more in the pocket on payday vs going to the govt to spend on waste. All businesses whether it's the local shop or Google....15% on business revenues ...all other individuals get a simplified bracket as well.

Immigration....smart policy since I'm in s border state...do it legally not open border free entry and no repercussions. Drives down wages for those people mentioned in above paragraph.

Foreign policy..don't wiggle around the enemy...go after them ....and do so directly not by proxy help.

Gun control....issues with trying to commingle a secret list along with due process and constitutional rights. Rights are rights...can't say you only protect civil rights, abortion rights and protestor rights to free speech but don't like gun owner rights.

I could go on but it really comes down to actually doing as little as possible FOR me...let me stand or fall on my own. I don't need govt interference in every aspect of daily life or look for it to protect me from anything more than foreign attacks and fraud whether it's price gouging or real dirty air acts etc. I don't want central planning dictating how much I can make...how much I have to pay someone if others are right there to accept willingly the compensation offered....don't need someone arrested because they have an opposing view that might hurt my feelings...pretty much sums it up.

**khicks26** · 08-01-16, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by Dr.Gonzo

Cucks and neocons, they were already there.

When immigration became and issue we tried to raise demographic concerns with "conservative inc." and they wouldn't address said concerns.

Ask them how are we going to win elections in the future with an increased "latino" demographic given their tendency to support socialist policy.

Ask them what they have to say about the fact that Romney would have won in a bigger landside than Reagan if the demographics were the same.

Ask them what they have to say about the fact that Reagan couldn't get elected today.

Whilst they turned their back to this issue, the Democrat Party was happy to import more voters, progressives gloat that when the demographics change they'll be able to ban guns.

Settle down Charlie with the Alt Right internet trolling. Fuking Helter Skelter freak. Stick to posting memes with little weasels saying we need a libertarian social order so he can stay rich. How he's going to physically remove people from society.

Get the fuk outta here.

**Dr.Gonzo** · 08-01-16, 11:17 AM