LeBron can't win it alone? Neither could MJ, Bird or Magic

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • nikeboyz
    SBR High Roller
    • 04-17-10
    • 191

    #1
    LeBron can't win it alone? Neither could MJ, Bird or Magic

    These three guys -- Abdul-Jabbar, Worthy and Johnson -- made a pretty good superteam in L.A.
    Kevork Djansezian/Getty Images

    It seems curious how the Miami Heat in general, and LeBron James in particular, are coming under attack from some notable Hall of Famers for forming a superteam when those same Hall of Famers enhanced their careers in pretty much the same manner.


    Magic Johnson, Larry Bird and Michael Jordan, to varying degrees, came down hard on the concept, as though the sanctity of the game was threatened somehow by the uniting of LeBron, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh. We'll get to the silly reason why these players decided to become teammates -- um, to win championships? -- a bit later. But first, let's examine those who are taking offense to it.


    Magic? Didn't he have Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, James Worthy, Byron Scott and Michael Cooper for much of his career?


    Bird? Wasn't he part of the storied Celtics' front line with Kevin McHale and Robert Parish, while also enjoying the company of Reggie Lewis, Tiny Archibald and Dennis Johnson for stretches?


    Jordan? Did he tell the Bulls "no thanks" when the idea of bringing in Dennis Rodman to join him and Scottie Pippen was raised? A team that went on an epic 72-win run during their first season together? Were those three championships they won as a trio somehow tainted because, well, it just wasn't right to have that much talent in the same uniform?


    Yes, we know: Bird said he wouldn't want to team with Magic; he wanted to beat Magic. Same with Jordan. But that's missing the point. Bird didn't have to team with Magic because the Celtics had All-Star talent around Bird. Both he and Magic had two members each of the NBA's 50th anniversary team as teammates (Parish, McHale, Kareem, Worthy) -- plus one 50th anniversary team member at the end of his career (Archibald) was in the mix, too. So, yeah, Magic and Bird didn't really need each other.


    And Jordan? This was the same player who grew weary of carrying the Bulls to the postseason, pre-Pippen, and then complained when Pippen, Horace Grant and B.J. Armstrong weren't yet mature enough to help beat the Pistons.
    The plain truth is that every great player wants help. That's why Kobe Bryant, after temporarily deluding himself into thinking he could win a title without Shaquille O'Neal, gave the Lakers an ultimatum: Get me a sidekick, or else. That's why Chris Paul wants answers in New Orleans. And why LeBron finally got fed up and left Cleveland, leaving money on the table.
    The real issue is a lack of superstar talent in the NBA, as compared to the Golden Age of the 1980s and '90s. And the blame can be directly traced to expansion. Would Bird and Magic and Jordan be so steadfastly against joining the "enemy" if they were playing today, where only a lucky handful of teams have more than one superstar on the roster? Given their strong desire to win, my gut tells me the answer is no. They would not be against the idea of being teammates.
    Before expansion, a half-dozen teams, if not more, throbbed with talent. The Sixers were loaded with Julius Erving, Moses Malone (who heard applause, not jeers, when he hooked up with Dr. J, unlike LeBron), Maurice Cheeks, Andrew Toney and Bobby Jones. The Bucks had Sidney Moncrief, Jack Sikma, Bob Lanier, Terry Cummings and Ricky Pierce. The Hawks: Dominique Wilkins, Kevin Willis, Tree Rollins, Spud Webb, Doc Rivers. The Jazz: Darrell Griffith, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Mark Eaton. The Rockets: Ralph Sampson and Hakeem Olajuwon. The Pistons: Isiah Thomas, Joe Dumars, John Salley, Bill Laimbeer, Rodman, Rick Mahorn, Vinnie Johnson. And so on.


    But the game changed once the NBA sprouted in such cities as Charlotte and Miami, Minnesota and Memphis, Toronto and New Orleans. The talent pool was diluted. Twenty years ago, nobody would view the current makeup of the Heat as a novelty. Nobody would call them a "Supreme Team" or emphasize their talent or worry about a Goliath ruining basketball, because Miami would look no different than the Lakers or Celtics or Sixers or Pistons. If anything, Miami would still trail those teams in the talent department. A notorious trash-talker, Bird would look at the Miami roster and snort: "Is that all you got?"


    Miami is being sized up as a villain, a team to hate, if only because three All-Stars got together and decided to be teammates. LeBron has taken hits in the past month because of his ego, criticism justified to a degree, especially with regard to his prime-time special. But if his ego was so large, why did he decide to play in Wade's World? Why not stay in Cleveland and have a suffering city kiss his ring? And why would Wade, given his stature in Miami, share his stage with two other bold-print names?


    Maybe it's because they want to win and they figure that, in a league loaded with one-star teams, uniting would be the best way.
    If some people complain the Miami three weren't good enough individually to carry a team to a title, then some people have a curious double standard.

    Shaun Powell is a veteran NBA writer and columnist. You can e-mail him here and follow him on twitter.
    The views on this page do not necessarily reflect the views of the NBA, its clubs or Turner Broadcasting.

    Very interesting and true information in this article. Feel Freely to discuss.


  • lolbear
    SBR Wise Guy
    • 09-10-09
    • 756

    #2
    I started watching the NBA after the 80's so I can't comment on the contrasts and comparisons but a few things:

    -"Would Bird and Magic and Jordan be so steadfastly against joining the "enemy" if they were playing today, where only a lucky handful of teams have more than one superstar on the roster? Given their strong desire to win, my gut tells me the answer is no. They would not be against the idea of being teammates."

    The entire article pretty much comes down to that last sentence. Which is a complete, complete opinion. Because of that, I think his arguments are pretty weak.

    -Why are the Lakers compared to the Heat? Did Jabaar, Magic, and Worthy all decided to join together in one summer? No. This comparison made no sense to me.

    -Why are the Bulls compared to the Heat? Did MJ, Pippen, and Rodman all decided to join together in one summer? No. This comparison made no sense to me. Rodman didn't even come to the bulls until he was 34, and Pippen, like the article cited, went from raw to good.

    That's why the comparisons are very weak in this article, and what happened then and there is a huge difference. These old dominant teams were built slowly, not overnight, and had to go a long way to create their dominance.

    Finally, LeBron had a lot of bad history that just get people to hate him. Making this thing a huge deal also did not help.

    The Heat are meant to be hated, the way James did this.

    The point is not that there are too much talent on one team, the point is that the talent are purposely grouping together to get an easy way out (winning).
    Comment
    • Grits n' Gravy
      Restricted User
      • 06-10-10
      • 13024

      #3
      i have no problem with the miami trio. the league is different than the bird/magic era. guys from other teams are actually friends. back in the 80's the celts and lakers respected each other, but despised each other as well.

      nba is a team game. one guy can take a crap team and make them competitive, but without some decent guys who have defined roles and can execute them consistently the team cannot win a title. james didn't have that in clev. when mo williams is your 2nd best player, you are screwed.
      Comment
      • brandon m
        SBR Wise Guy
        • 07-06-09
        • 604

        #4
        Yeah that article is slanted for sure. Magic got drafted onto that laker team for point 1. And he won a title without Kareem. Bird same deal.
        Jordan, come on man... Trying to compare Jordan and those bulls in any way to Wade and co in miami is just asinine don't even do it at all.
        Comment
        • Goat Milk
          BARRELED IN @ SBR!
          • 03-24-10
          • 25850

          #5
          Nike,

          Wade won a ring by himself. I don't want to hear Shaq's name. Sha
          Cause Sleep is the Cousin of Death
          Comment
          • Goat Milk
            BARRELED IN @ SBR!
            • 03-24-10
            • 25850

            #6
            Nike,

            Wade won it all by himself in 06. No other superstar. Don't mention Shaq, please. He was way passed his prime. The guy didn't show up for the first 2 games of the finals, Miami lost both games, then Wade had one of the greatest finals performances of all time, leading the heat to 4 straight victories, putting up sicker stats in a finals series than Magic, Bird, Kareem, or any of these guys ever did.

            Kobe never even put up numbers like that. Guy put the whole team on his back that year.
            Cause Sleep is the Cousin of Death
            Comment
            • nikeboyz
              SBR High Roller
              • 04-17-10
              • 191

              #7
              * I didn't write this article *
              *Just putting that out there*

              To Goat

              Wade was the superstar and he did take over cause he has that killer instinct.

              Is it possible to win being the only star. Yes

              Is it possible to win being the only star multiple years. No

              As you may know the NBA changes completely each year
              (N.O. who... Dallas Number#1 what? The Pistons a threat?!? etc etc)

              So I think this move would not only benefit lebron who couldn't do it by himself but it can benefit wade.

              Lebron remembers getting swept in the finals and wade remembers the glory days
              If you let these guys in the finals again its Showtime!!

              P.S. I cant wait to see the faces on the heat opponents when they realize they have to play 1 on 1 Defense now
              Comment
              • Goat Milk
                BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                • 03-24-10
                • 25850

                #8
                I agree Nike. People here just don't understand because they don't play basketball themselves. It is impossible to stop 1 Wade or Lebron or Kobe, it is difficult enough to even contain guys like this. Imagine having to guard 2. Coaches spend their whole time trying to figure out what and what not to take away from guys like this. When they drive at least 3 to 4 guys commit, you cannot do this anymore.

                I lived here all my life and I had the honor to play ball with Jalen Rose once. He was probably 20 years old at the time I was younger I remember I was a freshman in high school and I used to always walk to the park and play with the older kids. And one day I see Jalen Rose and his boys ballin up there during the summer. I went to the same HS as him so I knew who he was so you can imagine how happy I was when he let me run with them. I got shit on but it was an awesome experience.

                I knew the guy would probably go to the NBA sooner or later, but I was pretty amazed to see how good he had gotten since we played. Just wanted to share that with you. Sounds like you are a real fan of the game. I like that.
                Cause Sleep is the Cousin of Death
                Comment
                • CallMeGENO
                  SBR Wise Guy
                  • 03-14-10
                  • 749

                  #9
                  kobe and co. will take down the miami 3some this year. matt barnes huge defensive pick up for them
                  Comment
                  • nikeboyz
                    SBR High Roller
                    • 04-17-10
                    • 191

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Goat Milk
                    I agree Nike. People here just don't understand because they don't play basketball themselves. It is impossible to stop 1 Wade or Lebron or Kobe, it is difficult enough to even contain guys like this. Imagine having to guard 2. Coaches spend their whole time trying to figure out what and what not to take away from guys like this. When they drive at least 3 to 4 guys commit, you cannot do this anymore.
                    Exactly and that's just the offense part. We not even talking about defense.
                    If your not a elite team dont even think about getting a Win especially at home.
                    I guarantee tickets every night will be sold out. So not only do you have to worry about all the pressure about playing this new team but you have to worry about the crowd. It brings a whole new meaning to the mental and physical aspect of basketball. Many teams will be done by halftime.


                    Originally posted by Goat Milk
                    I lived here all my life and I had the honor to play ball with Jalen Rose once. He was probably 20 years old at the time I was younger I remember I was a freshman in high school and I used to always walk to the park and play with the older kids. And one day I see Jalen Rose and his boys ballin up there during the summer. I went to the same HS as him so I knew who he was so you can imagine how happy I was when he let me run with them. I got shit on but it was an awesome experience.

                    I knew the guy would probably go to the NBA sooner or later, but I was pretty amazed to see how good he had gotten since we played. Just wanted to share that with you. Sounds like you are a real fan of the game. I like that.
                    Good Story
                    Those moments rarely come around expecially if its before a person NBA years.

                    And Yeah I have been a fan for a while and that wont end anytime soon.

                    Especially when a new era of the NBA has just been created.
                    Comment
                    • mtneer1212
                      SBR MVP
                      • 06-22-08
                      • 4993

                      #11
                      The Heat cannot lose enough for me. And I hate the NBA.
                      Comment
                      • lakerboy
                        SBR Aristocracy
                        • 04-02-09
                        • 94379

                        #12
                        Wade got more calls in the NBA finals that year he won then all other players combined in the history of sport. That final was rigged because Stern hates Cuban. Now dont get me wrong Wade had some great games but the calls that went against Dallas in games 3/4 were outrageous.
                        Comment
                        • lolbear
                          SBR Wise Guy
                          • 09-10-09
                          • 756

                          #13
                          Originally posted by nikeboyz
                          Exactly and that's just the offense part. We not even talking about defense. If your not a elite team dont even think about getting a Win especially at home. I guarantee tickets every night will be sold out. So not only do you have to worry about all the pressure about playing this new team but you have to worry about the crowd. It brings a whole new meaning to the mental and physical aspect of basketball. Many teams will be done by halftime. Good Story Those moments rarely come around expecially if its before a person NBA years. And Yeah I have been a fan for a while and that wont end anytime soon. Especially when a new era of the NBA has just been created.
                          Unfortunately, the best case scenario of the Trio has already been talked about and focused on, it is naturally going to be the direction of media when those 3 met up. How great they potentially can be, tickets are definitely selling out, winning a championship, etc.

                          IF everything works out, they win a championship and doesn't take much credit for it because well, when you make a monster combo like this it doesn't blow people out of the water.

                          Obviously when you put Lebron and Wade together, it will be tough to defend. But everyone knows that already, and that's the problem. If expectations aren't met, they (mainly LeBron) will get such a load of **** from the media. And pressure when other teams are playing at home? Sure. But the real pressure is the Heat meeting their expectations. They have EVERYTHING to lose now. Anything short of championship will be a miss (of course LeBron will make something up as an excuse, like he spoiled us or something). The real pressure is on the Heat, especially even when everything goes right, it still ain't going to be the sweetest. Win 4 in a row, then maybe it gets real sweet.
                          Comment
                          • kenshin11x
                            SBR High Roller
                            • 07-21-10
                            • 151

                            #14
                            bosh is overrated. hasn't done squat in playoffs. they will not win a ring kuz kobe and co. will destroy them
                            Comment
                            • Goat Milk
                              BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                              • 03-24-10
                              • 25850

                              #15
                              Originally posted by lakerboy
                              Wade got more calls in the NBA finals that year he won then all other players combined in the history of sport. That final was rigged because Stern hates Cuban. Now dont get me wrong Wade had some great games but the calls that went against Dallas in games 3/4 were outrageous.
                              LB Wade got the calls but Miami won 4 straight. 4 straight games are not rigged. I agree that Stern wanted Miami and Shaq particularly to win but those FTs only really came in 2 games he shit on them in every aspect that series if you want to look at his numbers. just was purely dominate against a weak ass dallas team with no true defense that never even deserved to win.
                              Cause Sleep is the Cousin of Death
                              Comment
                              • Goat Milk
                                BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                • 03-24-10
                                • 25850

                                #16
                                I wouldn't care if LA won the championship. That would be legendary.

                                Yao Ming and the Rockets watch out for them.
                                Cause Sleep is the Cousin of Death
                                Comment
                                • kobefanatic
                                  SBR Hall of Famer
                                  • 01-19-10
                                  • 9013

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Goat Milk
                                  I wouldn't care if LA won the championship. That would be legendary.

                                  Yao Ming and the Rockets watch out for them.
                                  yao doesn't look like he will survive the whole NBA season
                                  Comment
                                  • lolbear
                                    SBR Wise Guy
                                    • 09-10-09
                                    • 756

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by Goat Milk
                                    LB Wade got the calls but Miami won 4 straight. 4 straight games are not rigged. I agree that Stern wanted Miami and Shaq particularly to win but those FTs only really came in 2 games
                                    2 games was all the mavs needed. 2 games = 4 game swing. 2 games with lopsided calls were enough for an NBA final since that's more than 25% of the series.
                                    Comment
                                    • Goat Milk
                                      BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                      • 03-24-10
                                      • 25850

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by lolbear
                                      2 games was all the mavs needed. 2 games = 4 game swing. 2 games with lopsided calls were enough for an NBA final since that's more than 25% of the series.
                                      Bro the Mavs could have taken the series in game 3. Dirk missed that FT to tie the game with 2 or 3 sec left. That would have been 3-0 Mavs and then its over. Still Stern wanted the Heat to win that game ultimately and probably the series for all the veterans. shit about what city generates more money like Golden Greek was saying is bullshit. Stern puts championships where legendary players are and more importnatly where hard working vets are.
                                      Cause Sleep is the Cousin of Death
                                      Comment
                                      • bbar86
                                        SBR High Roller
                                        • 04-29-10
                                        • 163

                                        #20
                                        Im a miami fan (always have been), but i must admit im slightly concerned about a matchup with the lakers in the finals. If they can survive them this year then they are set for the next couple years to come
                                        Comment
                                        • nikeboyz
                                          SBR High Roller
                                          • 04-17-10
                                          • 191

                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by kobefanatic
                                          yao doesn't look like he will survive the whole NBA season
                                          Yeah I read that Yao said if his foot doesnt heal after this season that he will retire
                                          Comment
                                          • nikeboyz
                                            SBR High Roller
                                            • 04-17-10
                                            • 191

                                            #22
                                            After this season Bosh will not be looked at as over rated
                                            I believe he will be a valuable piece just like a Gasol since he is on a legit team now.

                                            Also I think this team will gel well the only problem that will take place I believe is when the Mvps/Final Mvps are giving out. The media will be all over that. And we all know how that messes with Lebron's mind
                                            Comment
                                            • jollyoscars
                                              SBR Sharp
                                              • 04-25-10
                                              • 470

                                              #23
                                              this is kinda a cowardly thread. stop trying to protect lebron man. face it, he doesnt have the killer winning instinct the other greats have had
                                              Comment
                                              • Thomas_Garber
                                                Restricted User
                                                • 11-19-09
                                                • 364

                                                #24
                                                lebron is not a team player, so miami is not winning anything.
                                                Comment
                                                • orlikowski
                                                  SBR High Roller
                                                  • 07-11-10
                                                  • 184

                                                  #25
                                                  interesting article, but completely an opinion and i disagree with most of it. The NBA is different but I don't like the idea of having superstar teams.
                                                  Comment
                                                  • ijrod21i
                                                    Restricted User
                                                    • 02-20-10
                                                    • 324

                                                    #26
                                                    The key is that LeBron left his home town to be with another free agent. If LeBron was really one of the greatest basketball players ever (he is only a top 3 athlete at this point but not an overall leader) the free agents would have went to him and if they didn't he would have spent his entire career trying to beat them. 1 championship in Cleveland would have been much more meaningful than two in Miami.
                                                    Comment
                                                    • nikeboyz
                                                      SBR High Roller
                                                      • 04-17-10
                                                      • 191

                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by jollyoscars
                                                      this is kinda a cowardly thread. stop trying to protect lebron man. face it, he doesnt have the killer winning instinct the other greats have had
                                                      1. I didnt write this article I simply brought it this subforum
                                                      2. Why would I need to protect someone I never met before
                                                      3. I said multiple times lebron doesn't have a killer instinct
                                                      Comment
                                                      • Diesel79
                                                        SBR MVP
                                                        • 11-27-08
                                                        • 1001

                                                        #28
                                                        good point..... almost every superstar needs a sidekick to win a title. I can only remember one NBA champion who had one superstar and bunch of roleplayers.... 1994 Houston Rockets. Hakeem was their star and second best player was either Vernon Maxwell, Sam Cassell or Robert Horry
                                                        Comment
                                                        • kobefanatic
                                                          SBR Hall of Famer
                                                          • 01-19-10
                                                          • 9013

                                                          #29
                                                          i pity wade if they win the championship, look for more people to credit lebron than wade, and when they lose it's always wade's fault and not lebron's
                                                          Comment
                                                          • pronk
                                                            Restricted User
                                                            • 11-22-08
                                                            • 6887

                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by nikeboyz
                                                            1. I didnt write this article I simply brought it this subforum
                                                            2. Why would I need to protect someone I never met before
                                                            3. I said multiple times lebron doesn't have a killer instinct
                                                            You've been kissing leprick's ass ever since that punk joined pathetic duo- Wade the clown and ugly Bosh. Yeah, and and that IDIOT Riley. 4 assholes on the same team!!! Can we ask for more?


                                                            Comment
                                                            • nikeboyz
                                                              SBR High Roller
                                                              • 04-17-10
                                                              • 191

                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by pronk
                                                              You've been kissing leprick's ass ever since that punk joined pathetic duo- Wade the clown and ugly Bosh. Yeah, and and that IDIOT Riley. 4 assholes on the same team!!! Can we ask for more?



                                                              Me wanting wade to win MVP is kissing lebron's ass ?
                                                              Please dont make comments especially when you act like a dumbazz and dont even realize Riley doesn't even play basketball anymore and he isnt on the team lmao.
                                                              Last edited by nikeboyz; 07-28-10, 06:19 PM.
                                                              Comment
                                                              • pronk
                                                                Restricted User
                                                                • 11-22-08
                                                                • 6887

                                                                #32

                                                                ------------------+--------------------

                                                                _____________________________________


                                                                Comment
                                                                • pronk
                                                                  Restricted User
                                                                  • 11-22-08
                                                                  • 6887

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Originally posted by nikeboyz
                                                                  Me wanting wade to win MVP is kissing lebron's ass ?
                                                                  Please dont make comments especially when you act like a dumbazz and dont even realize Riley doesn't even play basketball anymore and he isnt on the team lmao.
                                                                  Go home.
                                                                  Comment
                                                                  • nikeboyz
                                                                    SBR High Roller
                                                                    • 04-17-10
                                                                    • 191

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Originally posted by pronk
                                                                    Go home.
                                                                    I am at home

                                                                    Pronk whats you finals predictions?
                                                                    Who vs Who?
                                                                    Comment
                                                                    • jjgold
                                                                      SBR Aristocracy
                                                                      • 07-20-05
                                                                      • 388185

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Bird and Magic had great players around them

                                                                      Jordan did not, no comparison

                                                                      Pippen was very good but no stud

                                                                      Jordan made him
                                                                      Comment
                                                                      SBR Contests
                                                                      Collapse
                                                                      Top-Rated US Sportsbooks
                                                                      Collapse
                                                                      Working...