Has anyone ever won a title with as shitty a team as LeBron has?

**HustleGetPaid** · 05-12-10, 09:14 AM

Great point!!! Everyone just assumes cause the Cavs had the best overall record they would walk through the playoffs, but it isn't that easy. It would be great if LeBron won it all with the lack of a real 2nd option and not
too great of a supporting cast or coach.

**WiseGrumpy** · 05-12-10, 09:24 AM

The players are VERY good they are just playing bad at the moment, should I remind you they dominated the regular season?
The bigger problem right now is bad decisions by Brown and LeBron's injury.

**HoulihansTX** · 05-12-10, 09:26 AM

Lebron made it to the Finals wit a shittier team though

Allen Iverson made it the the finals with an even shittier team also

**big0mar** · 05-12-10, 09:32 AM

Originally posted by HoulihansTX

Lebron made it to the Finals wit a shittier team though

Allen Iverson made it the the finals with an even shittier team also

I wouldn't say the Cavs team that made the finals was any worse than this one. Iverson also had a legitimate head coach, that did things like say, run an offensive system.

**lyon804** · 05-12-10, 09:33 AM

Originally posted by HoulihansTX

Lebron made it to the Finals wit a shittier team though

Allen Iverson made it the the finals with an even shittier team also

Both statements correct.

It's just Lebron homers Houli. It's this simple...Had he shown up to compete last nite they would have followed. His team is witnesses too

They witnessed bullshit from him and responded accordingly. Had he played like the league MVP they would have followed just like in game 3.

I am growing tired of the Lebron excuses every year. You Lebron people need to understand this.. He is a terrific player and one of the all time best regular season players/leaders the league has ever seen. He is however absent the qualities of a true champion such as a: Jordan,Kobe, Majic, Bird, Russell or any other multiple championship winner I am leaving out.

Save the comments that he is better than Kobe for at least another year.

**paul8888** · 05-12-10, 09:34 AM

cant belive that performance from lebron last night though.... game 6 better be huge for him

**big0mar** · 05-12-10, 09:35 AM

Originally posted by lyon804

Both statements correct. It's just Lebron homers Houli. It's this simple...Had he shown up to compete last nite they would have followed. His team is witnesses too

They witnessed bullshit from him and responded accordingly. Had he played like the league MVP they would have followed just like in game 3. I am growing tired of the Lebron excuses every year. You Lebron people need to understand this.. He is a terrific player and one of the all time best regular season players/leaders the league has ever seen. He is however absent the qualities of a true champion such as a: Jordan,Kobe, Majic, Bird, Russell or any other multiple championship winner I am leaving out. Save the comments that he is better than Kobe for at least another year.

By qualities of a true champion, you mean a HOF head coach and supporting cast?

Do you really think Kobe or Jordan would take this team, led by Mike Brown and win a title?

**Ulyses** · 05-12-10, 09:37 AM

Bottom line baby celts overall depth and veteran talentare too much for lebron and sideshowbob toovercome

**HoulihansTX** · 05-12-10, 09:37 AM

Originally posted by big0mar

I wouldn't say the Cavs team that made the finals was any worse than this one. Iverson also had a legitimate head coach, that did things like say, run an offensive system.

The Cavs have finished with the best regular season record twice in two seasons. To say that this teams is not better than teams in the past is ridiculous.

Yes Larry Brown is a better coach than Mike Brown. But Larry Brown is better than most coaches, and has about 30 years of head coaching exp. NBA/ College

**kobefanatic** · 05-12-10, 09:40 AM

excuses starting

**kobefanatic** · 05-12-10, 09:45 AM

Originally posted by lyon804

Both statements correct.

It's just Lebron homers Houli. It's this simple...Had he shown up to compete last nite they would have followed. His team is witnesses too

They witnessed bullshit from him and responded accordingly. Had he played like the league MVP they would have followed just like in game 3.

I am growing tired of the Lebron excuses every year. You Lebron people need to understand this.. He is a terrific player and one of the all time best regular season players/leaders the league has ever seen. He is however absent the qualities of a true champion such as a: Jordan,Kobe, Majic, Bird, Russell or any other multiple championship winner I am leaving out.

Save the comments that he is better than Kobe for at least another year.

, especially the last part

**big0mar** · 05-12-10, 09:51 AM

Originally posted by kobefanatic

excuses starting

Its not an excuse, its a fact. When Kobe had a shitty team around him, they didn't win shit. When he got Pao Gasol, they won. Doesn't seem very complicated to me.

**HoulihansTX** · 05-12-10, 09:53 AM

Originally posted by big0mar

Its not an excuse, its a fact. When Kobe had a shitty team around him, they didn't win shit. When he got Pao Gasol, they won. Doesn't seem very complicated to me.

True. Everyone needs someone they can count on.

For whatever reason the Cavs brass thought Mo willy, or Jamison was that guy.

**big0mar** · 05-12-10, 09:54 AM

Originally posted by HoulihansTX

True. Everyone needs someone they can count on. For whatever reason the Cavs brass thought Mo willy, or Jamison was that guy.

A lot more than the Cavs brass thought that.

**HustleGetPaid** · 05-12-10, 09:55 AM

Mike Brown is the weakest link of the Cavs not performing at a high level. I thought he learned under Greg Popovich!!!

**kobefanatic** · 05-12-10, 09:56 AM

Originally posted by big0mar

Its not an excuse, its a fact. When Kobe had a shitty team around him, they didn't win shit. When he got Pao Gasol, they won. Doesn't seem very complicated to me.

jamison,mo williams and varejao are not a shitty team compared to kobe's 05-07 team lamar,smush,kwame

it's the cavs choice to have jamison in the 1st place and mo will, they could have gotten amare

**big0mar** · 05-12-10, 09:58 AM

Originally posted by kobefanatic

jamison,mo williams and varejao are not a shitty team compared to kobe's 05-07 team lamar,smush,kwame it's the cavs choice to have jamison in the 1st place and mo will, they could have gotten amare

Jamison, Mo Williams, and Varejao would not start on the Lakers or Celtics this season. The Cavs have nobody other than Lebron that would be starting on the Lakers or Celtics. Not to mention Kobe had a HOF coach in 05-07, and one of the best offensive systems in modern basketball.

100% agree on the Amare thing. Give LeBron Amare, and we likely aren't having this conversation.

**kobefanatic** · 05-12-10, 09:59 AM

the series is not over yet, still have possible 2 games to play, why feel so insecure to bring kobe to the discussion? guess kobe is your boy's measuring stick huh?

**HustleGetPaid** · 05-12-10, 09:59 AM

And please stop with the Kobe nonsense!!! He had Shaq as his 2nd fiddle and cried trade me before he finally won it all last year, but with another 2nd fiddle Gasol!!! Kobe wouldn't win shit with Mike Brown
as coach and LeBron's teammates, point blank!!!

**Powderguy** · 05-12-10, 09:59 AM

LeBron had a shittier team when he made it to the Finals against the Spurs for sure.

**lyon804** · 05-12-10, 10:00 AM

Originally posted by HoulihansTX

True. Everyone needs someone they can count on.

For whatever reason the Cavs brass thought Mo willy, or Jamison was that guy.

There is some truth to that Houli but true champions make it work. Who was Pau Gasol before he got with Kobe? Who was Jordan's big men? The Cavs do have a great supporting cast and are a deep team. However, the Cavs play always mirror's there leaders.They are front runners. Had Lebron came out smokin hot they would have played the part. The worse he played the worse they played.

Bottomline, the cavs had enough talent to win 60+ games with that team, but are not good enough to overcome the big/old 3.

We can talk and hash out who has the better players but Lebron is a 2 time league MVP and layed the biggest egg in the biggest game of his career last nite....That's not championship stuff imo

**kobefanatic** · 05-12-10, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by big0mar

Jamison, Mo Williams, and Varejao would not start on the Lakers or Celtics this season. The Cavs have nobody other than Lebron that would be starting on the Lakers or Celtics. Not to mention Kobe had a HOF coach in 05-07, and one of the best offensive systems in modern basketball.

100% agree on the Amare thing. Give LeBron Amare, and we likely aren't having this conversation.

excuses, kobe had a HOF coach in 05-07 but he did have a shit team to work with, with the exception of odom, lebron has a good team now mo williams,jamison and varejao, shaq is even better than any of the players in 05-07 of that lakers squad

**HustleGetPaid** · 05-12-10, 10:01 AM

And you right this convo wouldn't be happening if the Cavs had Stoudemire instead of an aging Jamison who has no mean streak or toughness about him!!!

**kobefanatic** · 05-12-10, 10:04 AM

Originally posted by HustleGetPaid

And please stop with the Kobe nonsense!!! He had Shaq as his 2nd fiddle and cried trade me before he finally won it all last year, but with another 2nd fiddle Gasol!!! Kobe wouldn't win shit with Mike Brown
as coach and LeBron's teammates, point blank!!!

, more excuses

**HustleGetPaid** · 05-12-10, 10:04 AM

Originally posted by Powderguy

LeBron had a shittier team when he made it to the Finals against the Spurs for sure.

You may be right, however the entire East was weak that year and the Spurs swept them.

**kobefanatic** · 05-12-10, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by lyon804

There is some truth to that Houli but true champions make it work. Who was Pau Gasol before he got with Kobe? Who was Jordan's big men? The Cavs do have a great supporting cast and are a deep team. However, the Cavs play always mirror's there leaders.They are front runners. Had Lebron came out smokin hot they would have played the part. The worse he played the worse they played.

Bottomline, the cavs had enough talent to win 60+ games with that team, but are not good enough to overcome the big/old 3.

We can talk and hash out who has the better players but Lebron is a 2 time league MVP and layed the biggest egg in the biggest game of his career last nite....That's not championship stuff imo

jordan had oh well, luc longley and tom washington

damn those guys suck balls, an overage robert parish in 97

**kobefanatic** · 05-12-10, 10:06 AM

Originally posted by HustleGetPaid

And you right this convo wouldn't be happening if the Cavs had Stoudemire instead of an aging Jamison who has no mean streak or toughness about him!!!

don't know why they got jamison when they could have had amare back then

**HustleGetPaid** · 05-12-10, 10:08 AM

Kobefanatic you are a funny
guy!!!

**HustleGetPaid** · 05-12-10, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by kobefanatic

don't know why they got jamison when they could have had amare back then

Still baffles me why they didn't get Stoudemire either.

**bigsmitty** · 05-12-10, 10:13 AM

Well said-true champions are not consistently excellent in "highlight" performance but they are consistent in heart as demonstrated by their ability to recover from setbacks and lead-if not in direct points then in some other part of the game that will rally their team. I went on the Cavs and was throroughly impressed with the Celts effort last night. Cheers

**big0mar** · 05-12-10, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by kobefanatic

the series is not over yet, still have possible 2 games to play, why feel so insecure to bring kobe to the discussion? guess kobe is your boy's measuring stick huh?

My boy? I'm not really a LeBron fan by any means. I just think its a little ridiculous people are piling on him for not doing something that nobody else in the history of the NBA has done.

**1UP** · 05-12-10, 10:15 AM

How many years will this excuse be made? It was valid when they were swept in the Finals, but not anymore. Not even close.

Mo Williams, Jamison, Shaq, Z, Varejaeo, Hickson, Moon, West, Powe, Parker... this is the best team they've ever had and they're all there because LeBron's the one approving them.

I haven't heard of any qualms with the roster until they're down 3-2. How ironic.

**lakerboy** · 05-12-10, 10:20 AM

So If the Cavs win its cause of Lebron but when they lose the supporting cast is the issue? Did you guys not see that LEbron hasnt shown up in 3 of 5 games in this series. The cavs are the only team in NBA history to have that reg season winning pct and lose by 32 points at home in the playoffs. They got blown out 2 times in a row at home. This series should be over by now cause boston let game 1 slip. Its time for folks to start laying the blame on Lebron when his team loses. The guy has too many folks sticking up for him.

**kobefanatic** · 05-12-10, 10:21 AM

Originally posted by big0mar

My boy? I'm not really a LeBron fan by any means. I just think its a little ridiculous people are piling on him for not doing something that nobody else in the history of the NBA has done.

i thought you're one of the lebron fans

, people pile on him because he proclaimed himself king

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Ak5FovtYgivmdEl5JHFXCLO8vLYF?slug=aw-lebroncavs051210