Amare Stoudemire

[KiDBaZkiT]

I was watching the All Star game yesteray and heard the Cavs may consider trading Ilgauskas and Hickson for Stoudemire. If this happens just give LA the championship right now. What a foolish move that would be. Amare Stoudemire is a terrible defender and most of his points come off a Nash assisting hiom on an easy bucket and his rebounds come because nobody is Phoenix knows how to do anything but shoot. Amare is not a tough player and doesnt have the shooting range of Ilgauskas. The very thought they would do this is just disgusting to me how OVER-RATED Amare is, I have watched him get torched by every 4 in the league and I can only imagine what Gasol would do to him. Hickson is a better defender and if you dont agree you dont watch basketbvall. Z is a better shooter he just doesnt dunk which you dont need. Cleveland could win a championship with all the pieces they have right now and if they make this trade I will guarantee it will not be a success.

[lakerboy]

I agree with you 100% and mentioned this yesterday. The Lakers know Amares game. Gasol and Odom would have a field day on him. Cleveland doesnt need to make a move right now but i think Ferry is getting nervous cause last year he didnt get Shaq and he is just making this move for the sake of making it. The cavs are looking just fine. No need to tinker with what works.

[williams22]

Again I will remind everyone, if this deal goes down the only way the Cavs are doing it is if Phoenix will waive Z. Hence this trade is essentially Hickson for Amare. While Amare's D is certainly questionable, he's an upgrade over an inconsistent Hickson. Amare has also never played on a team that preached defense, so there's a good chance his defense would improve some. The Cavs would resign Z after the 30-day wait period, which basically just gives Z some rest before the final stretch.

I'm hearing from a few Cavs insiders that this deal may actually just be smoke and mirrors crafted by Ferry and Steve Kerr to get Wasington and Philadelphia to lower their asking prices for Jamison and Iggy.

[whatsgood5]

Don't really agree with you here. Amare will certainly upgrade an already scary Cavs team IMO

[KiDBaZkiT]

I agree with you 100% and mentioned this yesterday.

Yea I been MIA for a while. I hate betting leading up to the All Star break, went like 0-3 the week leading up to it cause I didnt know what teams were looking forward to vacation and which ones werent that pumped about vaction and I usually wait a week after it to get back in action.

[HoulihansTX]

Do you bet anymore Kid?

[HoulihansTX]

Danny Ferry is one of the worst GM's in a league full of bad GM's.

[KiDBaZkiT]

Again I will remind everyone, if this deal goes down the only way the Cavs are doing it is if Phoenix will waive Z. Hence this trade is essentially Hickson for Amare. While Amare's D is certainly questionable, he's an upgrade over an inconsistent Hickson. Amare has also never played on a team that preached defense, so there's a good chance his defense would improve some. The Cavs would resign Z after the 30-day wait period, which basically just gives Z some rest before the final stretch.

I'm hearing from a few Cavs insiders that this deal may actually just be smoke and mirrors crafted by Ferry and Steve Kerr to get Wasington and Philadelphia to lower their asking prices for Jamison and Iggy.

Well it must be smoke and mirrors cause Phoenix wont waive Z just to end up with JJ Hickson for Amare. Amare isnt shit without Nash period and none of your teams guards have the passing ability of Nash. Tell your Cavs insiders they are idiots and they have the best record in the NBA and dont need to make changes and affect team chemistry. I am sure Kobe and the Lake show are praying to god this deal goes down, then Bynum will never have to go outside the paint to play D. Hicksons inconsistency is largely due to his inconsistent playing time. His recent blocks on D Wade and Dwight Howard is more impressive than anything I have ever seen Stoudemire do on ther defensive end. Amare is ridiculously over rated.

[KiDBaZkiT]

Do you bet anymore Kid?

Not much lately, I hate that week leading up to the all star break it kills me every year, I am just glad I stopped it at 0-3, I am gonna watch this week and see who is trying to make a run and will bet accordingly.

[williams22]

Well it must be smoke and mirrors cause Phoenix wont waive Z just to end up with JJ Hickson for Amare. Amare isnt shit without Nash period and none of your teams guards have the passing ability of Nash. Tell your Cavs insiders they are idiots and they have the best record in the NBA and dont need to make changes and affect team chemistry. I am sure Kobe and the Lake show are praying to god this deal goes down, then Bynum will never have to go outside the paint to play D. Hicksons inconsistency is largely due to his inconsistent playing time. His recent blocks on D Wade and Dwight Howard is more impressive than anything I have ever seen Stoudemire do on ther defensive end. Amare is ridiculously over rated.

The difference is Amare can hit the 15-18 footer more consistently than Hickson, which is why the Cavs want him. Ideally, I'm hoping for Jamison or Igoudala right now.

Ferry has actually done a phenomenal job as GM so far. The Mo Williams trade was amazing (not quite LA getting handed Gasol, but still pretty good), being able to dump Gooden and Hughes was solid, and Parker, Moon, and Shaq were all great pickups for very little cost.

Right now it looks as though the Cavs are about 60/40 on making a move. Phoenix will buyout Z, as all they want is young talent (Hickson) and cap relief.

[HoulihansTX]

List of bad GM's

Chris Wallace - Grizzlies
The tool at Minnesota( two PG's in the first round)
Danny Ferry
Sacramento Kings GM ( have at least 3 overpaid players, or just plain bad contracts)

Steve Kerr ( Suns have gotten progressively worse, and made the Shaq trade)
76ers GM ( whoever gave that stiff Brand a max contract is a tool)
Orlando GM ( Rashard Lewis has a max contract, enuff said.)
John Paxson( never was able to pull off a trade for a big name, but had all those assets. What a shame)

If I wanted too I could elaborate my points, but those who follow the NBA in depth know what I'm getting at.

[lunchbawks]

stoudemire is a great player, but why would you want him on your team?

stoudemire isn't worth his asking price, by any means.

[KiDBaZkiT]

The difference is Amare can hit the 15-18 footer more consistently than Hickson

Then what a useless trade. Like Cleveland needs anymore jump shooters. Z can hit the 15-18 footer more consistently than both and requires the opposing center to get out of the paint to play D which opens up the lane for LeBron.

[HoulihansTX]

I think Z is Lebron's favorite teammate.

He has been there since LeBron's rookie year.
Unselfish
Not someone jockeying for camera time
Not a LeBron fan, but a teammate.
Probably the only teammate he can count on to make a consistent shot every game.( that pick'Npop play that he runs with LeBron is unstoppable.

[williams22]

Then what a useless trade. Like Cleveland needs anymore jump shooters. Z can hit the 15-18 footer more consistently than both and requires the opposing center to get out of the paint to play D which opens up the lane for LeBron.

No, they specifically need a player who can guard the PF (Z can't) AND knockdown open jumpers. Without this, Shaq gets doubled by the opposing PF like in the Orlando game. Luckily Lebron's passing was amazing that game and he was able to find Hickson at the rim plenty of times, but it was very clear that Hickson didn't want to shoot the 15-footer.

I'm not saying this is a phenomenal move, but I do think it's an upgrade. I also think Stoudamire's defense would improve under Mike Brown system and Lebron and Shaq's leadership.

[williams22]

I think Z is Lebron's favorite teammate.

He has been there since LeBron's rookie year.
Unselfish
Not someone jockeying for camera time
Not a LeBron fan, but a teammate.
Probably the only teammate he can count on to make a consistent shot every game.( that pick'Npop play that he runs with LeBron is unstoppable.

Yes, Z is like a brother as far as Lebron is concerned. If they make a move that doesn't involve resigning Z Lebron will be VERY unhappy and I guarantee he will be vocal about it. He stood up to Mike Brown earlier this season when Z didn't play in the game that would have gotten him the record for most games played as a Cav.

[williams22]

List of bad GM's

Chris Wallace - Grizzlies
The tool at Minnesota( two PG's in the first round)
Danny Ferry
Sacramento Kings GM ( have at least 3 overpaid players, or just plain bad contracts)

Steve Kerr ( Suns have gotten progressively worse, and made the Shaq trade)
76ers GM ( whoever gave that stiff Brand a max contract is a tool)
Orlando GM ( Rashard Lewis has a max contract, enuff said.)
John Paxson( never was able to pull off a trade for a big name, but had all those assets. What a shame)

If I wanted too I could elaborate my points, but those who follow the NBA in depth know what I'm getting at.

Alright, I'll bite...What has Ferry done that has been so bad?

Also, Chris Wallace's moves have been looking a lot better lately.

[KiDBaZkiT]

You remeber a couple years back when Nowitzki dropped 50 points on Amare? The most points by a single player in a conference finals since Michael Jordan? Whe all you gotta do to shut down Nowitzki is just get in his face and bump into him a little, Nowitzki probably the easiest star to shut down and has put up huge numbers on Stoudemire over the years. Im watchin ESPN and they just had Marc Stien weighing in on the trade and every Amare highlight they showed was a Nash assist, dont believe go rewind you DVR>

[JohnAnthony]

I fully, wholeheartedly, agree with the OP.

[williams22]

You remeber a couple years back when Nowitzki dropped 50 points on Amare? The most points by a single player in a conference finals since Michael Jordan? Whe all you gotta do to shut down Nowitzki is just get in his face and bump into him a little, Nowitzki probably the easiest star to shut down and has put up huge numbers on Stoudemire over the years. Im watchin ESPN and they just had Marc Stien weighing in on the trade and every Amare highlight they showed was a Nash assist, dont believe go rewind you DVR>

Of course, but what's to say you can't have Lebron on the passing end instead of Nash? Ultimately if this trade goes through the Cavs get an improvement at PF and only give up Hickson. Hickson has had some nice games and is very athletic, but his basketball IQ leaves much to be desired and his defensive play gives Mike Brown headaches. I don't think this trade is a championship-clincher, but I don't hate it either. I still think Amare can become a better defensive player over time.

[KiDBaZkiT]

Of course, but what's to say you can't have Lebron on the passing end instead of Nash? Ultimately if this trade goes through the Cavs get an improvement at PF and only give up Hickson. Hickson has had some nice games and is very athletic, but his basketball IQ leaves much to be desired and his defensive play gives Mike Brown headaches. I don't think this trade is a championship-clincher, but I don't hate it either. I still think Amare can become a better defensive player over time.

LeBron probably can pass as good as Nash or damn close. And im tellig you right now that with what Phoenixs trades/signings have panned out over the years they arent gonna give up Amare and end up with only Hickson, its not gonna happen. Phoenix wants more production in return than just Hickson. I agree that if you got Amare for Hickson it wouldnt be a bad deal but the Suns arent gonna waive Z if thats the deal just to help your Cavs. The Suns are still in the playoffs they arent going to throw away this season for JJ Hickson, they are going to want more than just a draft pick as well.

[williams22]

LeBron probably can pass as good as Nash or damn close. And im tellig you right now that with what Phoenixs trades/signings have panned out over the years they arent gonna give up Amare and end up with only Hickson, its not gonna happen. Phoenix wants more production in return than just Hickson. I agree that if you got Amare for Hickson it wouldnt be a bad deal but the Suns arent gonna waive Z if thats the deal just to help your Cavs. The Suns are still in the playoffs they arent going to throw away this season for JJ Hickson, they are going to want more than just a draft pick as well.

Hey I'm just telling you the deal that is on the table. The Suns have no reason to keep Z with Lopez and Frye on the roster. Buying him out helps them hugely on the financial side of things. It's been reported that Cleveland has officially made the offer and Phoenix is now just trying to draw things out a bit to see if any other teams (really Philly or Miami) are willing to make a better bid.

The other important thing to consider here is that there have been rumors that Lebron has said this deal would keep him in Cleveland for sure. If I'm in Ferry's shoes I think I definitely do it at that point.

[KiDBaZkiT]

The Suns would have every reason to keep Z if they lost Amare are you kidding?

[williams22]

The Suns would have every reason to keep Z if they lost Amare are you kidding?

Here's a link to the ESPN report: Link

Every article I've seen so far seems to think Z would definitely be waived. Kerr and Ferry are good friends too so that could help things.

[GRUMPERZ]

Life-changing trade

[The fiddler]

Hey I'm just telling you the deal that is on the table. The Suns have no reason to keep Z with Lopez and Frye on the roster. Buying him out helps them hugely on the financial side of things. It's been reported that Cleveland has officially made the offer and Phoenix is now just trying to draw things out a bit to see if any other teams (really Philly or Miami) are willing to make a better bid.

The other important thing to consider here is that there have been rumors that Lebron has said this deal would keep him in Cleveland for sure. If I'm in Ferry's shoes I think I definitely do it at that point.

I agree with you that Ferry is a great GM. Anybody that says otherwise is delusional.

But I disagree a little on the Z deal. You can't tell the Suns what to do with him...against the NBA rules. I think the Suns would release him because of cap relief. Stating that the Cavs can dictate to Suns hurts your inside "credibility" with me.

[williams22]

I agree with you that Ferry is a great GM. Anybody that says otherwise is delusional.

But I disagree a little on the Z deal. You can't tell the Suns what to do with him...against the NBA rules. I think the Suns would release him because of cap relief. Stating that the Cavs can dictate to Suns hurts your inside "credibility" with me.

Let me be clear, I never said that I am a Cavs insider, simply that I've heard from some. Also, I never said the Cavs would dictate this to the Suns. It will certainly be discussed though and the trade will be made in good faith that the Suns will then buyout Z. My point is that Ferry and Kerr are good friends, so it is unlikely that Kerr would imply one thing and then do another and essentially backstab Ferry (a la what Boozer did to the Cavs several years back).

[HoulihansTX]

Alright, I'll bite...What has Ferry done that has been so bad? Also, Chris Wallace's moves have been looking a lot better lately.

Has not shown an ability to obtain a top tier talent to go along with LeBron. Larry Hughes was garbage. Fell into the Shaq trap, just like Kerr. Now is making hurried decision to trade Hickson(young talent) & Z( glue guy, and LeBrons fav teammate). For Amare, who only adds offense, lacks any defensive intensity, and was unquestionably happy to see Shaq leave Phoenix. With the money Amare will command, they could wait until the offseason and sign a Free Agent. Think about it.. if Cavs ownership is willing to live in the luxury tax, they could lure another big name who would most certainly be interested in playing with LeBron. LeBron seems like he is everyones friend, and elite players want to play with him

I agree with you that Ferry is a great GM. Anybody that says otherwise is delusional. But I disagree a little on the Z deal. You can't tell the Suns what to do with him...against the NBA rules. I think the Suns would release him because of cap relief. Stating that the Cavs can dictate to Suns hurts your inside "credibility" with me.

You can not simply release players in the NBA. All contracts are guaranteed, so you can only waive players. But you are still entitled to pay the player the sum of his contract, with that contract counting against you cap. The Suns would payout his contract, and he would be able to sign with the Cavs in 30 days.

[Tree Rollins]

]Again I will remind everyone, if this deal goes down the only way the Cavs are doing it is if Phoenix will waive Z[/B]. Hence this trade is essentially Hickson for Amare. While Amare's D is certainly questionable, he's an upgrade over an inconsistent Hickson. Amare has also never played on a team that preached defense, so there's a good chance his defense would improve some. The Cavs would resign Z after the 30-day wait period, which basically just gives Z some rest before the final stretch.

I'm hearing from a few Cavs insiders that this deal may actually just be smoke and mirrors crafted by Ferry and Steve Kerr to get Wasington and Philadelphia to lower their asking prices for Jamison and Iggy.

That move would be so illegal that if David Stern found out he would rip the cavs 5 new assholes. Ask the Minnesota T'wolve's if those under the table handshake agreements are worth it.

[GiveMeaBJ]

List of bad GM's

Chris Wallace - Grizzlies
The tool at Minnesota( two PG's in the first round)
Danny Ferry
Sacramento Kings GM ( have at least 3 overpaid players, or just plain bad contracts)

Steve Kerr ( Suns have gotten progressively worse, and made the Shaq trade)
76ers GM ( whoever gave that stiff Brand a max contract is a tool)
Orlando GM ( Rashard Lewis has a max contract, enuff said.)
John Paxson( never was able to pull off a trade for a big name, but had all those assets. What a shame)

If I wanted too I could elaborate my points, but those who follow the NBA in depth know what I'm getting at.

It would be a shorter list to list the good GM's. Not to mention the failure to put Dumb-Leave-Plz on this list is a bad overlook.

[HoulihansTX]

That move would be so illegal that if David Stern found out he would rip the cavs 5 new assholes. Ask the Minnesota T'wolve's if those under the table handshake agreements are worth it.

Detroit did the same thing with Denver in the trade for Iverson. Pistons sent Billups, and McDyess. Denver bought out McDyess, then per NBA rules, McDyess waited 30 days to signed back with the Pistons.

[Tree Rollins]

It would be a shorter list to list the good GM's. Not to mention the failure to put Dumb-Leave-Plz on this list is a bad overlook.

Dumbleavy has had a few good draft picks. But yes, he is a nit-wit and has nearly coached that team into the ground. At least he resigned from his coaching position. They need to get him out of the front office too though.

[HoulihansTX]

It would be a shorter list to list the good GM's. Not to mention the failure to put Dumb-Leave-Plz on this list is a bad overlook.

Actually Dumbleavy is a decent GM. His roster on paper is competitive, but the attitude/commitment of the players is piss poor. But Dumbleavy is a horrible coach, no arguing that.

[Tree Rollins]

Edit: Double post. Removed.

[jjgold]

Stoudemaire is overrated

Not going to help cleve