Williams22 lebron, jordan!!!!!

[kahnner]

I SEE YOU SAID LEBRON IS BETTER THAN JORDAN WAS IN A LOT OF THINGS OTHER THAN SCORING!

CAN YOU EXPAND ON THAT COMMENT!

JORDAN WAS A BETTER DEFENDER, FREE THROW SHOOTER, ASSISTS AND REBOUNDS ABOUT THE SAME, CLUTCH SHOOTING!

DON'T GET ME WRONG I THINK LEBRON IS GREAT, BUT PEOPLE NEED TO STOP COMPARING LEBRON AND KOBE TO JORDAN!

I KNOW YOU LIKE TO DEBATE SO LET'S HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY!

[tealish]

The two share a jersey number and not much more.

[mkasad23]

lebron should never be compared to charles barkley let alone michael jordan

[williams22]

I SEE YOU SAID LEBRON IS BETTER THAN JORDAN WAS IN A LOT OF THINGS OTHER THAN SCORING!

CAN YOU EXPAND ON THAT COMMENT!

JORDAN WAS A BETTER DEFENDER, FREE THROW SHOOTER, ASSISTS AND REBOUNDS ABOUT THE SAME, CLUTCH SHOOTING!

DON'T GET ME WRONG I THINK LEBRON IS GREAT, BUT PEOPLE NEED TO STOP COMPARING LEBRON AND KOBE TO JORDAN!

I KNOW YOU LIKE TO DEBATE SO LET'S HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY!

Sure, but can we leave the caps lock key out of this?

First off, let me preface by saying that comparing the two isn't fair, to either of them. They have very different builds and play very different styles.

That being said, I would certainly say that Lebron is a superior passer to Jordan. Not that MJ was bad, but Lebron sees the court as well as anyone, including Magic (and Magic agrees). It's not just that Lebron averages more assists than Jordan, it's the way he does it. The pass that always amazes me in the no-look skip passes Lebron throws like bullets. First of all, no one in the game throws a skip pass that hard. Second, it's rare that he doesn't hit his shooter dead in the hands. There's a reason that many of the top 3-point FG% shooters are from Cleveland.

Next, Lebron is a better rebounder, but this is somewhat of an unfair comparison strictly due to his size.

As far as steals and blocks are concerned I would call them roughly even. Lebron's steal numbers are slightly lower but that has to do with Mike Brown's defensive system versus Phil Jackson's. The Cavs are always one of the top defensive teams in the league, but their steal numbers are actually very low because Mike Brown preaches positioning on defense, not gambling.

For defense, they are very different players. Jordan was a better on-ball defender than Lebron currently is (although his 4th quarter defense is normally amazing, he doesn't do it the length of the game, yet). As far as off-ball, or help-side defense, is concerned I would say Lebron has a slight edge. His chase down blocks are amazing but he does a lot of fundamentally correct things from the help side as well.

Jordan was and is the greatest mid-range shooter the NBA has seen. No one hit with more consistency and more pressure on him than Jordan. Lebron, however, possess an edge in 3-point shooting. While his career percentage is only slightly higher, Lebron takes a much higher volume of 3s than Jordan did and this season is hitting over 36%.

Now we get to the reason I like Lebron so much: teamwork and leadership. Simply put, he is quite possibly the most charismatic athlete the NBA has ever seen. Not only does he pass the ball, but everyone who has played with him genuinely loves to do so. There's no way the same can be said for Jordan. Jordan had a different way of doing things, and that's fine (although Bill Wennington may disagree), but Lebron's way is so much more fun to watch. He's created a true team atmosphere in Cleveland, and that can't be said of many NBA teams. As far as leadership goes, after the Olympic Games this summer Coach K (coach of Team USA and of Duke, obviously) said that Lebron is most natural leader he has ever coached. Not only is he coachable, but he naturally commands respect from a team like no one else. On a team with many veterans (Kidd, Kobe, etc.) Lebron instantly became the leader. That says something special about a guy who was only 24 at the time.

There's my arguments, I hope I didn't bore you too much.

[Ace_of_Spades]

The two share a jersey number and not much more.

agree, that number should really be retired. Kobe has 24, not 23.

[salvador_7764]

i think jordan is better than lebron.lebron could never be jordan

[jsmithj88]

lebron has more natural ability than jordan, that can not be debated
wat made jordan great to me is that he maximized his natural ability
jordan was not the biggest, fastest or strongest player in the league but he made himself the best
kobe is similar in the same aspect, he makes a lot of amazing plays
but wat separates lebron is that he can do watever kobe or jordan can do but with less effort

[NYSportsGuy210]

lebron has more natural ability than jordan, that can not be debated
wat made jordan great to me is that he maximized his natural ability
jordan was not the biggest, fastest or strongest player in the league but he made himself the best
kobe is similar in the same aspect, he makes a lot of amazing plays
but wat separates lebron is that he can do watever kobe or jordan can do but with less effort

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can you please be quiet already? Seriously LeBron can lead his teams to more titles than Kobe or Jordan? I ask that because that is the HARDEST THING any superstar athlete can do in ANY SPORT....just ask the great Peyton Manning.

Stats are nothing more than just stats.....of course LeBron is gonna rack up assists, points and rebounds....he is BY FAR the most SUPERIOR player on his team. Kobe has a lot of talent around him...doesn't have to do everything by himself....put Kobe on the Cavs and he'll be averaging close to triple doubles every night too.

Use some common sense.

[NYSportsGuy210]

And for real....you can make a legit case to compare Kobe to Jordan...they play the same position, have the same fiery killer instinct and are both amazing clutch and talented players in their respected 2 guard position. Heck, check out YOUTUBE, Kobe as a rookie even played Jordan one on one in a Lakers-Bulls game....Kobe did a great job on him as a rookie.

If Jordan played in the same era as Shaq and Kobe....let's just say Chicago wouldn't have 6 titles....that's how good Kobe IS.

[williams22]

lebron has more natural ability than jordan, that can not be debated
wat made jordan great to me is that he maximized his natural ability
jordan was not the biggest, fastest or strongest player in the league but he made himself the best
kobe is similar in the same aspect, he makes a lot of amazing plays
but wat separates lebron is that he can do watever kobe or jordan can do but with less effort

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can you please be quiet already? Seriously LeBron can lead his teams to more titles than Kobe or Jordan? I ask that because that is the HARDEST THING any superstar athlete can do in ANY SPORT....just ask the great Peyton Manning.

Stats are nothing more than just stats.....of course LeBron is gonna rack up assists, points and rebounds....he is BY FAR the most SUPERIOR player on his team. Kobe has a lot of talent around him...doesn't have to do everything by himself....put Kobe on the Cavs and he'll be averaging close to triple doubles every night too.

Use some common sense.

Man you just don't make any sense. Kobe has more talent on him yet tries to do more by himself than Lebron does, because he's selfish. Lebron only has good stats because he doesn't have talent around him? What a joke.

If Lebron played on LA in place of Kobe not only would he have even better stats than he has now, but the Lakers would reach or beat the 72-game mark.

[BernardMadoff]

I could debate this till blue in the face not sure its wise though.

[NYSportsGuy210]

Man you just don't make any sense. Kobe has more talent on him yet tries to do more by himself than Lebron does, because he's selfish. Lebron only has good stats because he doesn't have talent around him? What a joke.

If Lebron played on LA in place of Kobe not only would he have even better stats than he has now, but the Lakers would reach or beat the 72-game mark.

Seriously doubt he would have better stats.....and 72 wins is a lot in a tough western conference. Kobe already proved he can get 65 wins realistically I am not sure LeBron could get to 72. It would all depend who is #2 guard would be....Lamar Odom and Ron Artest would NOT be Lakers if LeBron was on Los Angeles. I'd give LeBron 68 wins tops....remember Western conference was a lot MORE COMPETITIVE than Eastern conference was with amount of overall quality teams the last two years.

And I never said Kobe tries to do MORE by himself because he has more talent around him....how does that even make any sense? He does less....thus less "gawdy" stats than LeBron on a regular basis.

[jinkh82]

i think jordan is the greatest player ever not because of his stats but his ability to lead team in such a charismatic ways, day and day out. I don't think Kobe is consistent enough and lebron is my candidate but still far away from what jordan have achieved. Of course he won 6 consecutive championships. I don't think that's easy to accomplish. When Lebron wins the title consecutively i will maybe call him the greatest right up there with jordan but he's no way near jordan yet. Championship is the ultimate set bar where you can separate from good player to great player.

[NYSportsGuy210]

Jordan didn't win 6 consecutive....it was 6 in 8 years. But close enough. Let LeBron get at least two and then this discussion may...may have some legs under it to begin with. As of now I have to show these over zealous children their rightful place.

[Ace_of_Spades]

No debate, Jordan 6, Lebron 0.

[jinkh82]

oh yea one more thing.. another reason why jordan is still the greatest is that he achieved 6 championships without the help of any super star except scottie pippen which i don't believe he was a super star but more of a role player to help jordan achieve his goal. That would be a huge difference. Shaq is the greatest center of all time and kobe had 3 championship with shaq. So bottom line, kobe needs to win 5 or more to surpass jordan's greatness and lebron?? hmm.. that would be a debate since shaq is no where near the skill level that he once used to be but still he can help lebron's team in a big way. let's see in a few more years how lebron will do..

[Glitch]

lebron is the king right now. thats all that really matters. there will never be a next jordan.

[tealish]

oh yea one more thing.. another reason why jordan is still the greatest is that he achieved 6 championships without the help of any super star except scottie pippen which i don't believe he was a super star but more of a role player to help jordan achieve his goal. That would be a huge difference. Shaq is the greatest center of all time and kobe had 3 championship with shaq. So bottom line, kobe needs to win 5 or more to surpass jordan's greatness and lebron?? hmm.. that would be a debate since shaq is no where near the skill level that he once used to be but still he can help lebron's team in a big way. let's see in a few more years how lebron will do..

You are correct in saying Jordan is the greatest. Yet your assessment of Scottie is thoroughly mistaken. Pippen is a HOFer. First ballot. Recognize.

[ngates815]

All you guys that are throwing out the Championship statistic. Remember 1 thing. Jordan was 28 when the Bulls won their first title. Lebron right now is only 25.


Kobe will never be Jordan. Lebron could(should) be better than Jordan. Jordan mid-range J and on the ball D is the only thing he has on Lebron.

[BernardMadoff]

All you guys that are throwing out the Championship statistic. Remember 1 thing. Jordan was 28 when the Bulls won their first title. Lebron right now is only 25.


Kobe will never be Jordan. Lebron could(should) be better than Jordan. Jordan mid-range J and on the ball D is the only thing he has on Lebron.

Mid range J, on the ball D, post game, better at end game situations, instincts, defensive awareness.

[Grind House]

oh yea one more thing.. another reason why jordan is still the greatest is that he achieved 6 championships without the help of any super star except scottie pippen which i don't believe he was a super star but more of a role player to help jordan achieve his goal. That would be a huge difference. Shaq is the greatest center of all time and kobe had 3 championship with shaq. So bottom line, kobe needs to win 5 or more to surpass jordan's greatness and lebron?? hmm.. that would be a debate since shaq is no where near the skill level that he once used to be but still he can help lebron's team in a big way. let's see in a few more years how lebron will do..

To say Pippen wasn't a superstar discredits anything you spew.

[williams22]

To say Pippen wasn't a superstar discredits anything you spew.

Pippen was one of the top 5 players in the league most years he played. It's amazing how overshadow his history gets because of Jordan.

[GiveMeaBJ]

I think when it is all said and done and LeBron and Kobe are retired. Assuming LeBron doesn't pull some stunt and retire at an early age. When the dust settles I think we see as the three greatest to ever play the game: 1) LeBron 2) Jordan 3) Kobe.

However, at this point and for the immediate future Jordan was and still is the biggest winner in NBA history and the best clutch player in NBA history.

[GiveMeaBJ]

Pippen was one of the top 5 players in the league most years he played. It's amazing how overshadow his history gets because of Jordan.

Pippen was a top 50 player ever. Sure, Jordan made him better but don't discredit Pippen by saying he wasn't great. I agree with Williams, it is ridiculous how he gets little to no credit for anything those Bulls teams accomplished.

[williams22]

I think when it is all said and done and LeBron and Kobe are retired. Assuming LeBron doesn't pull some stunt and retire at an early age. When the dust settles I think we see as the three greatest to ever play the game: 1) LeBron 2) Jordan 3) Kobe.

However, at this point and for the immediate future Jordan was and still is the biggest winner in NBA history and the best clutch player in NBA history.

Agree with everything here.

Also, remember that Lebron is still only 25 (and just turned 25 at that). If you match his first 6 years against Jordan's I think you'd have to take Lebron. He carried a team that started a bunch of bench players to the finals and has some playoff performances that were truly amazing. That game at Detroit where he hit 29 of his team's last 30 points will go down as one of the single greatest performances in recent memory.

This year he's got a slightly better supporting cast, but still no Pippen, Gasol, or O'neal in his prime. If he pulls it off this year, I think the haters will finally have to give it up.

[brko]

lebron should never be compared to charles barkley let alone michael jordan

i think jordan is better than lebron.lebron could never be jordan

[Whirlaway]

No comparison yet really.Just look at the rings

[williams22]

No comparison yet really.Just look at the rings

I hate the rings argument. Obviously it has some merit, but Horry has what, 7? Anyone want to argue that Horry is better than Barkley? C'mon now. Every ring that has been won in the last 20 years was not won solely by one player. Kobe has O'Neal and Gasol, MJ had Pippen, Duncan had Ginobli and Parker, etc. etc.

That being said, Lebron was the Only Cav that made the All-Star game this year. If he can win without another all-star that will be impressive. Oh yeah, and to do it at 25 years old will be as well.

[mdemps9190]

Lebron WILL BE better than jordan by the time its done, but not yet. Kobe is great as well but not better. I think if Jordan played in todays NBA though, he would not be the same dominant player he was. Lebron has yet to win a championship so he needs to do that before he can really start getting claims of being jordan-esque.

[Zahltag]

I SEE YOU SAID LEBRON IS BETTER THAN JORDAN WAS IN A LOT OF THINGS OTHER THAN SCORING!

CAN YOU EXPAND ON THAT COMMENT!

JORDAN WAS A BETTER DEFENDER, FREE THROW SHOOTER, ASSISTS AND REBOUNDS ABOUT THE SAME, CLUTCH SHOOTING!

DON'T GET ME WRONG I THINK LEBRON IS GREAT, BUT PEOPLE NEED TO STOP COMPARING LEBRON AND KOBE TO JORDAN!

I KNOW YOU LIKE TO DEBATE SO LET'S HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY!

http://www.352media.com/rantingandraving/CMFiles/Images/CapsLock.jpg

[kahnner]

Agree with everything here.

Also, remember that Lebron is still only 25 (and just turned 25 at that). If you match his first 6 years against Jordan's I think you'd have to take Lebron. He carried a team that started a bunch of bench players to the finals and has some playoff performances that were truly amazing. That game at Detroit where he hit 29 of his team's last 30 points will go down as one of the single greatest performances in recent memory.

This year he's got a slightly better supporting cast, but still no Pippen, Gasol, or O'neal in his prime. If he pulls it off this year, I think the haters will finally have to give it up.

I LIKE TO TYPE IN CAPS, SO WHAT!
Anyways, you have some very good points williams22!
I will agree with you that lebron is a better passer, rebound numbers are almost the same and lebron is much bigger than jordan was so i wouldn't say lebron is a much better rebounder than jordan was. On shooting it's jordan, almost 50% from the field 85% free throw shooter, higher 3pt %, clutch shot after clutch shot. I also give the edge to jordan on defense, 9 time 1st team all defense, defensive player of the year once! Jordan also had that killer instinct, like no other athlete besides maybe tiger woods. Jordan was a winner and thats all he cared about, he HATED losing! Everybody hates losing,but jordan and tiger have the "drive" like no other.
I also agree with you on championships- they are blown way out of wack, but jordan winning 6 in those 8 years- would of been 8 if he didn't retire, is amazing!

In jordan's first 6 years he played against a lot, and i mean a lot better teams than what lebron did in the east! So lebron taking the cavs to the finals in the east that year-- come on, not that impressive! not to mention he didn't play that well in the finals!

All in all i think lebron is the best all around player in todays game and he is only 25 and he brings a lot of fun to the game! The game has also changed a lot since jordan played, there is absolutely no defense by most of the teams in the league! Is he as good as jordan NO NO NO!
Is it possible when his carrer is over, maybe- a BIG maybe!

[williams22]

I LIKE TO TYPE IN CAPS, SO WHAT!
Anyways, you have some very good points williams22!
I will agree with you that lebron is a better passer, rebound numbers are almost the same and lebron is much bigger than jordan was so i wouldn't say lebron is a much better rebounder than jordan was. On shooting it's jordan, almost 50% from the field 85% free throw shooter, higher 3pt %, clutch shot after clutch shot. I also give the edge to jordan on defense, 9 time 1st team all defense, defensive player of the year once! Jordan also had that killer instinct, like no other athlete besides maybe tiger woods. Jordan was a winner and thats all he cared about, he HATED losing! Everybody hates losing,but jordan and tiger have the "drive" like no other.
I also agree with you on championships- they are blown way out of wack, but jordan winning 6 in those 8 years- would of been 8 if he didn't retire, is amazing!

In jordan's first 6 years he played against a lot, and i mean a lot better teams than what lebron did in the east! So lebron taking the cavs to the finals in the east that year-- come on, not that impressive! not to mention he didn't play that well in the finals!

All in all i think lebron is the best all around player in todays game and he is only 25 and he brings a lot of fun to the game! The game has also changed a lot since jordan played, there is absolutely no defense by most of the teams in the league! Is he as good as jordan NO NO NO!
Is it possible when his carrer is over, maybe- a BIG maybe!

Lebron has a higher 3-point %, and takes a much higher volume than Jordan did.

Also, Lebron True Shooting percentage, which factors in free throws and 3 pointers into FG%, is currently 61.2%. Jordan only had 1 season where he topped this, and he had 61.4%.

As far as defense goes, as I mentioned, they have very different defensive styles. Jordan's defense was similar to Kobe's now. They played a more hands-on defense. Lebron is a better weakside defender. His 4th quarter defense on the other team's top players (Just ask Durant or D-Wade, both of whom he shut down) is incredible, but he hasn't done that for 4 quarters yet.

As for your claim of Lebron taking his team to the finals meaning nothing since (in your opinion) the east was weak, that's absurd. MJ won titles with Pippen, a player who is top 50 all time and was top 5 or 10 in the league when he played. Lebron carried Drew Gooden (awful and stupid), Larry Hughers (even worse), and Sasha Pavlovic (even worse) as STARTERS to the NBA finals. That's a pretty impressive feat. Of course he didn't play well against the Spurs, Popovich is too good of a coach to get beaten by a single player when he knows no one else can do anything. Did you see the Spurs gameplan? Lebron got double and triple every time he touched the ball.

Again, MJ is still the best, for now, but he won't be in 10 years. MJ was what, 28 when he won his first championship? Lebron is only 25. I would take Lebron's first 6 years in the league over MJ's any day.

[lakerboy]

http://www.nba.com/history/players/jordan_stats.html

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/lebron_james/career_stats.html

For those interested in comparing the stats. I cant believe we are actually discussing Jordan versus Lebron at this stage of LEbrons career. I am pretty sure that most of the guys that post here in the NBA forum werent even born when Jordan started his career. SAying Lebron is better than Kobe is one thing but he aint no Jordan. There was only 1 Jordan- he is in a world by himself.

[kahnner]

The east was weak, i agree he took a bunch of crap players with him but through the east! Look at the teams they beat!

Carrer wise lebron doesn't have better anything shooting wise than jordan did!
And you also seem to think lebron will win a championship in the next 3 years, we will see about that!
Like i also told you the game has changed a lot since mj played, there was defense played a lot more back then!


Lebron has alot of years to play let's see what happens!

I will leave it at that, it was nice to hear somebody that actually knows stats and has a good argument, i wont even respond to some of the morons that posted dumb crap in this thread!

[Gopi-1]

Agree with everything here.

Also, remember that Lebron is still only 25 (and just turned 25 at that). If you match his first 6 years against Jordan's I think you'd have to take Lebron. He carried a team that started a bunch of bench players to the finals and has some playoff performances that were truly amazing. That game at Detroit where he hit 29 of his team's last 30 points will go down as one of the single greatest performances in recent memory.

This year he's got a slightly better supporting cast, but still no Pippen, Gasol, or O'neal in his prime. If he pulls it off this year, I think the haters will finally have to give it up.

I was watching a Cavs game earlier this year and I swear I thought Jamario Moon was the younger bro of Scottie Pippen!

I can't recall who they're playing against, and it was a close game, but I vividly remember Moon banking in a 3-point shot in the waning minutes of the 4th quarter. Do you remember that game bro?