Horse Racing questions and answers

[str]

thanks str ..agree on tony's horse..was thinking it'd be cool if somewhere down the road via claim or purchase one of the dutrow brother's got hold of an army mule..if you were still training would you consider keeping an eye out for one running at a mid-atlantic track..realize it would only be one of the criteria to claim it

I absolutely would. The only thing I am not clear on is their soundness. I have no idea if there is a pattern of unsoundness anywhere or breathing, etc., and if so, what that might be. Would need to know all that first obviously, but who doesn't want a hard knocking, always trying, horse to train.

I'm going to talk to Tony about AM's in the Sept. yearling sale at Keenland after Saratoga ends assuming there are a couple.
Want to hear his take on what he thinks.

Me, I love them.

I'll keep you posted.

[JBEX]

I absolutely would. The only thing I am not clear on is their soundness. I have no idea if there is a pattern of unsoundness anywhere or breathing, etc., and if so, what that might be. Would need to know all that first obviously, but who doesn't want a hard knocking, always trying, horse to train.

I'm going to talk to Tony about AM's in the Sept. yearling sale at Keenland after Saratoga ends assuming there are a couple.
Want to hear his take on what he thinks.

Me, I love them.

I'll keep you posted.

just checked and looks to me like there are a lot of them .. look forward to hear if he has a feeling for him as a sire and anything you may find out looking into it further

[JBEX]

just checked and looks to me like there are a lot of them .. look forward to hear if he has a feeling for him as a sire and anything you may find out looking into it further

if i read it correctly looks like there are 19 for sale

[str]

if i read it correctly looks like there are 19 for sale

JBEX, you cannot imagine how hard that must be to be a 12,500 stallion and have 19 babies in the Keenland Sept. SELECT sale.

Into Mischief? Of course.

Army Mule? Seriously?

[JBEX]

JBEX, you cannot imagine how hard that must be to be a 12,500 stallion and have 19 babies in the Keenland Sept. SELECT sale.

Into Mischief? Of course.

Army Mule? Seriously?

they seem to mostly be higher number hips which would be later in the sale ..I guess the megastar's sell at the beginning..so would you say wherever they sell there's scrutiny involved to have them auctioned there in the first place ?

[str]

they seem to mostly be higher number hips which would be later in the sale ..I guess the megastar's sell at the beginning..so would you say wherever they sell there's scrutiny involved to have them auctioned there in the first place ?

This answer has some detail to it and I had every intention of answering it this morning but something came up. I'll get back asap.
Thanks JBEX.

[JBEX]

This answer has some detail to it and I had every intention of answering it this morning but something came up. I'll get back asap.
Thanks JBEX.

np str .. will be cool to hear about the mechanisms of it after all these years..no rush at all

[str]

they seem to mostly be higher number hips which would be later in the sale ..I guess the megastar's sell at the beginning..so would you say wherever they sell there's scrutiny involved to have them auctioned there in the first place ?

The Keenland yearling sale is the most exclusive sale around IMO. This year they will sell over 4,000 yearlings. I don't know the number of total yearlings that requested to be in the sale but you don't just get in by requesting.

Once they have their set amount of yearling to sell, they will look closely at each yearling both body and bloodlines and try and find the best of the best. Those that make that cut will be positioned in book 1 and 2. Then come the rest pretty much in the predicted order that it has been estimated what they will sell for. Those get divided into days like day 3 yearlings or day 4 yearlings all the way through.

Once that is set up they randomly pick a letter of the alphabet and each book starts at the first letter of the broodmares name. Whatever that letter is. From that point on, they are sold in alphabetical order for , in this case book 1 and 2. Those are the most outstanding individuals in the eyes of those that worked for Fasig Tipton and graded each horse.

This year it looks like W was the first letter. Hip 1 is out of Well Humored. Hip 2 is out of West Coast Chick , hip 3 is out of Westside singer . Now it simply runs through each letter of the alphabet to assign the exact hip number.

After the first two sessions which are considered the premier sessions, each session after that will start with the mares name again which will also be W. So Wa's first, Wb's next etc. All alphabetical.

What they are attempting to do is not have a million dollar colt wedged in between some 20k sellers on day 6 or whatever.
This allows all the sheiks and stupid rich to fly in for the best of the best and leave after day 2 probably which allows the rich to show up after the mega rich leave.

As much fun as it would be to see day 1 and day 2, Tony and I always flew in on day 3. We had too much to do at our barns to spend 2 days drooling over the best of the best. Usually spent 3 days and 2 nights there. That worked for us.

Anyway, that's how it works. The horse flesh is incredible there. Every horse early looks like "the Rock" as well as being royally bred in most cases. Still a LOT of real fine horses in the days after but day 1 and 2 are certainly the cream of the crop going in.

That's how it works. Hope that helps. Follow up if you need to.

Sorry for the delay JBEX but for whatever reason nobody cares about anything in the building business during the summer but as soon as Labor day hits, EVEYBODY is ready to roll. Happens every year. Crazy.

[JBEX]

The Keenland yearling sale is the most exclusive sale around IMO. This year they will sell over 4,000 yearlings. I don't know the number of total yearlings that requested to be in the sale but you don't just get in by requesting.

Once they have their set amount of yearling to sell, they will look closely at each yearling both body and bloodlines and try and find the best of the best. Those that make that cut will be positioned in book 1 and 2. Then come the rest pretty much in the predicted order that it has been estimated what they will sell for. Those get divided into days like day 3 yearlings or day 4 yearlings all the way through.

Once that is set up they randomly pick a letter of the alphabet and each book starts at the first letter of the broodmares name. Whatever that letter is. From that point on, they are sold in alphabetical order for , in this case book 1 and 2. Those are the most outstanding individuals in the eyes of those that worked for Fasig Tipton and graded each horse.

This year it looks like W was the first letter. Hip 1 is out of Well Humored. Hip 2 is out of West Coast Chick , hip 3 is out of Westside singer . Now it simply runs through each letter of the alphabet to assign the exact hip number.

After the first two sessions which are considered the premier sessions, each session after that will start with the mares name again which will also be W. So Wa's first, Wb's next etc. All alphabetical.

What they are attempting to do is not have a million dollar colt wedged in between some 20k sellers on day 6 or whatever.
This allows all the sheiks and stupid rich to fly in for the best of the best and leave after day 2 probably which allows the rich to show up after the mega rich leave.

As much fun as it would be to see day 1 and day 2, Tony and I always flew in on day 3. We had too much to do at our barns to spend 2 days drooling over the best of the best. Usually spent 3 days and 2 nights there. That worked for us.

Anyway, that's how it works. The horse flesh is incredible there. Every horse early looks like "the Rock" as well as being royally bred in most cases. Still a LOT of real fine horses in the days after but day 1 and 2 are certainly the cream of the crop going in.

That's how it works. Hope that helps. Follow up if you need to.

Sorry for the delay JBEX but for whatever reason nobody cares about anything in the building business during the summer but as soon as Labor day hits, EVEYBODY is ready to roll. Happens every year. Crazy.

no problem on the time str ..business always comes first.. I always had the idea in my head that the real elite horses at this sale were considered "select" but turns out the whole sale is.. amazing process to evaluate around 4k horses to see if they qualify for the sale and I guess there has to be a lot more than that since not all make the cut.. glad to know how this works after all these years ..will be interested to see how the army mule's do ..thanks for the info as always

[JBEX]

ky downs ...2:15

R4 #1 lemon bomb (8-1) army mule

[str]

ky downs ...2:15

R4 #1 lemon bomb (8-1) army mule

She is so game. Just like most all of them.

Thanks JBEX !

[JBEX]

She is so game. Just like most all of them.

Thanks JBEX !

no problem str

she's set up perfect to cut back to a turf sprint at bel @ aqu ..just missed doing that in her debut..I remember once we discussed horses who were close to the pace at kd being very fit next out

[str]

no problem str

she's set up perfect to cut back to a turf sprint at bel @ aqu ..just missed doing that in her debut..I remember once we discussed horses who were close to the pace at kd being very fit next out

I agree 100%. These Am's always try and that race should set her up nicely for a cutback.

Good eye JBEX.

If you see her in, please let me know.

[JBEX]

I agree 100%. These Am's always try and that race should set her up nicely for a cutback.

Good eye JBEX.

If you see her in, please let me know.

thanks str..actually now that shes with a ky based trainer her next start might be there..let you know if I see her entered

[JBEX]

hey str

fort erie has their big race day today which features the "prince of wales stakes" for 3yo's at the preakness distance..not one but two army mules (#1[30-1] and #4 [4-1] ) .. looks like the longie #1 might turn out to be a good pickup although this is a very tough spot to hit 1st against winners ..post 5:35

[JBEX]

hey str

fort erie has their big race day today which features the "prince of wales stakes" for 3yo's at the preakness distance..not one but two army mules (#1[30-1] and #4 [4-1] ) .. looks like the longie #1 might turn out to be a good pickup although this is a very tough spot to hit 1st against winners ..post 5:35

should have mentioned that the race is restricted to canadian breds

[str]

hey str

fort erie has their big race day today which features the "prince of wales stakes" for 3yo's at the preakness distance..not one but two army mules (#1[30-1] and #4 [4-1] ) .. looks like the longie #1 might turn out to be a good pickup although this is a very tough spot to hit 1st against winners ..post 5:35

Thanks for the heads up.

I’ll check the charts this evening.

[JBEX]

Thanks for the heads up.

I’ll check the charts this evening.

if you are interested in seeing a replay "forterieracing" on youtube..sept 12 racing and it starts around 5 hr : 44 min mark

[str]

if you are interested in seeing a replay "forterieracing" on youtube..sept 12 racing and it starts around 5 hr : 44 min mark

Thanks JBEX. I did watch.

The 1 horse was scratched, good move. Might be a nice claim but why do that to him.
That leaves the 4 horse.

That horse was in great shape but just went from a pull to a drive in an instant half way around the far turn. Not sure what happened but had the look of a horse that bled or was having respiratory issues. Certainly was something more than outrun. Already on lasix. So no clue without scoping him or seeing him this morning.

Saw the 0-26 stat for the trainer 1st time blinkers ON. Now 0-27. Man, that's hard to do.

Thanks for the youtube heads up. The game is sooo different than it used to be with all the access. It's great.

[JBEX]

Thanks JBEX. I did watch.

The 1 horse was scratched, good move. Might be a nice claim but why do that to him.
That leaves the 4 horse.

That horse was in great shape but just went from a pull to a drive in an instant half way around the far turn. Not sure what happened but had the look of a horse that bled or was having respiratory issues. Certainly was something more than outrun. Already on lasix. So no clue without scoping him or seeing him this morning.

Saw the 0-26 stat for the trainer 1st time blinkers ON. Now 0-27. Man, that's hard to do.

Thanks for the youtube heads up. The game is sooo different than it used to be with all the access. It's great.

yeah he did slow down abruptly on the turn as you said ..thought the same thing that something might be wrong as he was making a strong move on the turn prior to that


those blinkers stats are awful lol..guess his judgement not so great as to when to add them..yes replays very accessible whether it's tvg,track site or you tube you can often see the replay for free

[str]

yeah he did slow down abruptly on the turn as you said ..thought the same thing that something might be wrong as he was making a strong move on the turn prior to that


those blinkers stats are awful lol..guess his judgement not so great as to when to add them..yes replays very accessible whether it's tvg,track site or you tube you can often see the replay for free

I know the pace was hot but this horse was a stalker/ closer in other races and this time she really just was done. Too done too quickly to be just pace according to her past efforts. Hope she’s ok.

[JBEX]

I know the pace was hot but this horse was a stalker/ closer in other races and this time she really just was done. Too done too quickly to be just pace according to her past efforts. Hope she’s ok.

on a different note a guess who lol is running in the last race at aqu..

#7 army of thoughts (20-1)

[str]

on a different note a guess who lol is running in the last race at aqu..

#7 army of thoughts (20-1)

Just finished watching the race.

That was the first Army Mule that I have seen run that was totally outrun. She tried, laying 3rd- 4th down the backside but it was clear to her and anyone watching that early on, she was not at that level today.

My question is? : How did she stay so close in her 1st race? I have to assume it was tougher than todays race but can't say for sure.

That makes no sense. I guess there is an explanation, most likely that I am assuming the 1st race was a real nice race.

Any horse is certainly allowed to not have a ton of ability coming from a ( then) 7500 stallion. Those are rarely MSW types anyway but I am so spoiled with how well they have preformed that it seems like I'm disappointed. That's crazy.

Thanks for the heads up once again JBEX.

[JBEX]

Just finished watching the race.

That was the first Army Mule that I have seen run that was totally outrun. She tried, laying 3rd- 4th down the backside but it was clear to her and anyone watching that early on, she was not at that level today.

My question is? : How did she stay so close in her 1st race? I have to assume it was tougher than todays race but can't say for sure.

That makes no sense. I guess there is an explanation, most likely that I am assuming the 1st race was a real nice race.

Any horse is certainly allowed to not have a ton of ability coming from a ( then) 7500 stallion. Those are rarely MSW types anyway but I am so spoiled with how well they have preformed that it seems like I'm disappointed. That's crazy.

Thanks for the heads up once again JBEX.

no problem str..her debut at huge odds last sept wasn't terrible running kind of evenly mid pack all the way around..big odds this time also .. a cheap purchase who ,if she's ok,might wake up at a place like finger lakes based on her debut effort .statebreds msw downstate a tough spot for a horse like this

[str]

no problem str..her debut at huge odds last sept wasn't terrible running kind of evenly mid pack all the way around..big odds this time also .. a cheap purchase who ,if she's ok,might wake up at a place like finger lakes based on her debut effort .statebreds msw downstate a tough spot for a horse like this

Agree. Class relief will help this one a lot. She wants to compete and when she becomes one of the better ones in the race, it won't take her long to figure it out.

[str]

For anyone in the Maryland area, I am going to the Renaissance festival today. It's a great day to go and we missed it last year.

Kind of hard to describe but we have always enjoyed it. Kids especially or in this case, grandkids.

If you have been before, you know what I mean. If not, it's worth checking out IMO.

Food, plenty of stuff for the kids, axe throwing, etc. for the older group and dunk the wench, who needs it to wash out her foul mouth. Lol.

If you play the tracks today, GL everybody.

[JBEX]

For anyone in the Maryland area, I am going to the Renaissance festival today. It's a great day to go and we missed it last year.

Kind of hard to describe but we have always enjoyed it. Kids especially or in this case, grandkids.

If you have been before, you know what I mean. If not, it's worth checking out IMO.

Food, plenty of stuff for the kids, axe throwing, etc. for the older group and dunk the wench, who needs it to wash out her foul mouth. Lol.

If you play the tracks today, GL everybody.

have a great time str !

[str]

have a great time str !

It was packed at the Renaissance festival yesterday.

So many people dressed up in full Renaissance clothing and makeup. Unreal.

Even saw my first furry. OMG ! No words. To each their own man. Whatever.

But I wish they would use a name tag for everyone that dressed crazy and just put their occupation on the tag. That would be crazy.



GL today everyone.

[str]

Aqueduct has cancelled their Saturday card due to 1-2" of rain and wind gusts up to 34 MPH .

Back in the day, that would have been unheard of. Not that this is a bad thing. On the contrary, the health and safety of the horses and riders is right at the forefront of thinking these days.

This is a really good thing. And it took a lot more than people probably realize. Serious change takes time. And the time is here.
Racing overall will be the big winner. And of course, those horses and riders that might otherwise have been injured or worse.

Racing is listening folks. And believe it or not, the fans have always and will always have control over policy. But they have to shout it from the rafters time and again to make it stick. Money talks and the customers have the money. Fans have been left to feel like they do not have any say. Perception creates reality.

So take todays cancellation, unheard of in decades past and realize that YOU , the customers, have plenty of say.

I will say Thank You to the NYRA for listening to your base. But the biggest thank you goes to those that were part of the public outcry that forced this change. Very well done folks. Keep up the good work.

[Altuve Cedeno]

NYRA cares nothing about their fan base. Since when do muddy tracks cause injuries? They changed the surface foolishly at Saratoga to enable faster drainage and ruined it. That’s why it’s so dangerous there. That nyra is spending almost $500 million to tear down the building at Belmont to put a new one up when no one goes there except 1 day a year is just wrong.

[str]

NYRA cares nothing about their fan base. Since when do muddy tracks cause injuries? They changed the surface foolishly at Saratoga to enable faster drainage and ruined it. That’s why it’s so dangerous there. That nyra is spending almost $500 million to tear down the building at Belmont to put a new one up when no one goes there except 1 day a year is just wrong.

NYRA cares nothing about their fan base.

I learned many years ago that the NYRA doesn't care about their fan base. But to be fair, how many big businesses actually do?
I wrote extensively about that in this thread as many as 11 years ago when they boldly touted that THEY were the hay, oats and water racing when Lasix was not allowable there. But what was never revealed to the public was the long list of drugs that WERE allowed to help prevent bleeding. Many of those were NOT allowed in other states. and as recently as when Rick Dutrow was reinstated this spring from that screw job he received 10 years earlier.


Since when do muddy tracks cause injuries?


Since the first time any horse ever raced over a muddy track. You don't need to snap a leg off nearing the wire to realize this. And whatever any statistics might say, they are wrong and doctored if you think an off track is as safe or safer as a fast track that has been properly maintained.
If you ever spent time at an active stable seeing what off tracks can do to horses that do not include dying at the 1/16 pole, you would know that the less spectacular injuries where a horse CAN race again but will need lots of therapy for a tendon, ligament, muscle pull, friction burns on the back of their legs, eye trauma from the mud flying into their face while running 30 MPH, air way contamination from excess mud being ingested from the nose or swallowed from the mouth, torn quarters just above the hoof from taking a slight misstep and having a shoe toe grab hit the horses quarter on either side of the front foot, tearing it off which is like having the tip of your thumb torn off for about an 1/8th of an inch or more. Hurts like hell and stays really sore when touched by anything for weeks in some cases. And while yes, these thing can happen on a dry, fast track as well, the odds go WAY up when the track is off.
I could continue but I assume you get my drift.




They changed the surface foolishly at Saratoga to enable faster drainage and ruined it. That’s why it’s so dangerous there.

You might be right. I would not know having left the game years back.

That nyra is spending almost $500 million to tear down the building at Belmont to put a new one up when no one goes there except 1 day a year is just wrong.

I've heard a lot of people say that . I honestly could care less. It has no effect on me whatsoever but if it affects you, I feel your pain.



My post was to praise those that love and support the game to a passion. It sounds to me that you are probably one of those many that do.
I think we are on the same team here and might suggest you reread my post as I, at no point praised the NYRA for doing anything but what big businesses do which is to protect their product. The fact that they were forced to do so was a testament to the fan base that has had enough. THAT is what I was eluding to in my post.

[JBEX]

hey str


there's an army mule @ baq R1

#2 backstretch rose (9-2) 1:05

I kind of like mott's #4 kingdom come (12-1) factoring price..probably at least a couple of future stakes horses in here

[JBEX]

Rick Dutrow has 2 fts in R7 ..didn't look at every race

[str]

hey str


there's an army mule @ baq R1

#2 backstretch rose (9-2) 1:05

I kind of like mott's #4 kingdom come (12-1) factoring price..probably at least a couple of future stakes horses in here

Looks like this AM ran a nice solid effort. Like most of them do. Finished 2nd and got beat a 1/2 length.
These horses go short, long, grass, dirt, mud. They never stop impressing me.

[str]

Rick Dutrow has 2 fts in R7 ..didn't look at every race

Rick is getting some firsters from people. I've seen 3 or 4 now.

No surprise that they didn't win first out.

We were always shown that his dad ran most of them at about 80% first out unless they were a really nice horse.

If that is the case, and it probably is, look for an improved effort in each of the next two races.
Shouldn't take too long.

Thanks for the heads up on all three horses JBEX.