Horse Racing questions and answers

[JBEX]

hey str

realize I'm asking a lot lol but as always it's a write-up if you're busy

R3 #4. loudmouthsoup (10-1)

really liked this one on sprint pedigree (sire/dam sire combo excellent) , solid debut trainer and a great spot in a restricted msw with a big purse

workouts at churchill.. liked the spacing and seems like some intention to me (using rankings not times).. quick 3f move to start at kee, moved to 4f slowed it down next 2 then gradually asked for more next 3 at 4f, one 5f from the gate and solid 4f to finish it off

what do you think of the works leading up and the horse in general ?




.

[JBEX]

and if all that isn't enough the army mule debuter we saw a couple of weeks ago and ran well makes his 2nd career start in R7 @ churchill #5 clear the deck (3-1)..im going with #4 but if not mine would like to see the 5 win

I really think there are signs early that he might wind up being a nice sire.. the two we have seen run plus what his offspring sold for at the auctions relative to his stud fee.. time will tell



.

[str]

When they say "Temp rail set at xx feet' I always assumed that to mean they moved it in to let the grass recover. Is that the case? I figure all it would really change is the severity of the turns. Does this really ever affect a horse? I can't imagine its as severe as going from a mile track to a bull ring no matter where its set.
Do European horses in America care that they are running and turning in a different direction?

4 for 6 at Belmont today, thanks largely to this thread. Somehow just got 11 - 1 on Irad horse that loves running at Belmont (horse for the course). 13 - 1 on My Girl Lexi earlier. Thank you sir!

If there is a temporary rail, it is moved out and away from the inner rail. And you are correct . They are trying to preserve the portion that has been recently run on before it gets ruined. Along with the grass recovering, divots and unevenness occurs. If you watch the races live, you might see some of the maintenance crew walking the course after a race trying to tamp down and even out the unevenness.

After the races maintenance will sometimes drive a small roller around it to help smooth out the surface.

Yes. It does change the severity of the turns. Does it affect a horse? Sometimes. It depends on the trip. It can make being wide more difficult. I would not worry about 10 ft. difference but from 0ft. to 40 ft. out has to be something to consider.

Q. Do European horses in America care that they are running and turning in a different direction?

A. Not if they have had a chance to train in that direction. In the states, the horses right leg will be the primary leg to lead with the majority of the time. In Europe, it's the opposite. While both legs have plenty of fitness, most American horses will have a stronger right lead than a left one, mainly because the use it more. It is not as much as people who are left or right handed, but it's kind of like that. Honestly though, the handicapper has enough to worry about without going there IMO.
The main thing that can affect the Euro horses coming here is the heat. Second would probably be the firmness of the courses.
Where they have an advantage is the fact that across the board, they are better than the USA horses, they are very used to a yielding or slow, heavy type course and if it is cooler weather, they thrive. They can wilt in the heat though. Gotta watch out for that.

Q. 4 for 6 at Belmont today, thanks largely to this thread. Somehow just got 11 - 1 on Irad horse that loves running at Belmont (horse for the course). 13 - 1 on My Girl Lexi earlier. Thank you sir!

A. Great to hear ! Keep it up.

[str]

str first I wanted to say you are a blessing to the horse racing community and this forum. Reading through some of your older posts and the information you have provided not just in regards to handicapping but the sport as a whole. It is a lot of information to assimilate and consider and I appreciate you taking the time to educate anyone who wishes to be a student of the game.

My question should have been phrased more of why doesn't horse A win rather than a specific horse. While there is tons of pre race work to be done (as you have elegantly illustrated throughout your posting) to include big picture views all the way down to wraps on the horses front legs, I was curious to the post race analysis and if a good horsemen knows through experience fairly quickly why a horse failed or not. Sharing specific information obviously not always a good idea but was just curious in a broader sense.

Thank you for answering this and somehow easily understanding what I was asking (I tend to be misunderstood). My apologies to anyone that thinks I have drifted out of my starting gate so to speak and have brought something non valuable to this thread. I find that reading and researching many things can help illuminate other unexpected areas of ones journey.

str, be well, thank you again

A good horseman will know much more often than not, what went wrong. Often times it is happening in the race as they watch with binoculars. They see it as it's happening which having been in that spot a thousands of times is kind of like a slow death. You know a horse is going too fast, getting a tough trip, not switching leads, uncomfortable, etc. but you just have to continue to watch while it happens. Lol. I still get the creeps just typing that.

Don't know if you have gotten to the trip discussions and covering up the right eye, etc. but that part should help you see a better, clearer picture as you watch the races.

It's my pleasure . Hope you continue to post here.

[str]

hey str

realize I'm asking a lot lol but as always it's a write-up if you're busy

R3 #4. loudmouthsoup (10-1)

really liked this one on sprint pedigree (sire/dam sire combo excellent) , solid debut trainer and a great spot in a restricted msw with a big purse

workouts at churchill.. liked the spacing and seems like some intention to me (using rankings not times).. quick 3f move to start at kee, moved to 4f slowed it down next 2 then gradually asked for more next 3 at 4f, one 5f from the gate and solid 4f to finish it off

what do you think of the works leading up and the horse in general ?


.

They seem to have had a purpose. When you see that and the consistency, it is a positive in that everything is on plan. Not all plans work but the trainer does well with firsters and there are no interruptions in the schedule. You can't ask for more than that.

As inspiring as yesterdays race with those babies were, this one not so much IMO. All the more reason to think your horse should run well.

GL JBEX.

[str]

1st:	1	Summer Promise	$8.40	$4.40	$2.40
2nd:	3	Danse Macabre		$16.20	$4.80
3rd:	6	Key Of Life			$2.10
4th:	7	Watch This Munny

• $1.00 EXACTA 1-3 $55.40
• $0.50 TRIFECTA 1-3-6 $88.55
• $0.10 SUPERFECTA 1-3-6-7 $64.88
• $1.00 DAILY DOUBLE 2/1 $43.10

One thing of note I did not mention when I spoke about this race but did mention it a week or two ago for all baby races this time of year is that horses that ran 1,2 in this race were January foals. The rest were not.
If anyone missed that comment, it's worth reading. This time of year, it's a big deal.

Hope that helps.

[JBEX]

One thing of note I did not mention when I spoke about this race but did mention it a week or two ago for all baby races this time of year is that horses that ran 1,2 in this race were January foals. The rest were not.
If anyone missed that comment, it's worth reading. This time of year, it's a big deal.

Hope that helps.

that's really impressive factoring in what a nice exacta that was..going to keep this in mind when I look at baby races;especially this time of year

[str]

hey str

through reading it somewhere decades ago (maybe the sheets) I equate each path wide on the turn to be worth approximately a length of lost ground..comment on a horse i had yesterday was 3-4 wide on the turn and 7 wide into the lane..is there any way to equate the latter part into overall ground lost ? my guess would be it seems like a lot more than it really is ..maybe could be estimated by the pythagorean theorum a² +b² = c²

(b)100 yards ² ..10000
(a) 20 yards ² .. 400

square root of 10400 is 101.9 so it would be about 2 yards extra being 20 yards further out over the course of traveling 100 yards which I believe equates to about 3/4 of a length..realize it doesn't happen that uniformly but at least you have something that puts you in the ballpark

I think this is an inexact science. Why? Because of several things. A true 3 wide all three way around the turn is a straightforward trip that you can equate. But when is says 7 wide into the lane, exactly when did the horse fan outwards? Typically very late in the run around that far turn to be THAT wide. So if it was for only the last 50 yards, how do you figure that? And more importantly, saving ground, which if a horse is happy to run into that, is always the way to go, there are plenty of horses who will just not fire to the same effort inside horses as they will outside horses. And we as a handicapper, do not know who those horses are.


When I was a groom, waaaay back in the day, and always wanting to learn, I remember when I rubbed the king of the stable, Lucky Lord. It was an honor to be Luck's groom. Proud as I was, I never realized how much I would learn from being around that horse. One day I let him over to a race and after Dutrow saddled him, I walk him around a few times , the riders and coming out and I put him back in his spot for a riders up. I am listening to Dickie give the instructions to Chris McCarron as to how to ride him. Luck was a mid range type closing sprinter.
He says to Chris, "let him settle and get him behind a horse or two. That makes him mean and mad." (It's the spray of dirt hitting him in his face that he didn't like.) " Get him good and mad and swing him out of that spot past the 3/8ths pole, get him clear, and he will kick in." Dammed if that isn't exactly what Chris did and he won which he did very frequently.


I asked Chris (who had the 5 pound bug at the time) when I was with him a day or two later about that and he said that while he had understood what Dickie was saying he had never heard it put that way. Lol.


So what all that means is that while saving ground can be great, it can also hinder a horses effort if they don't like it down there. So there is a trade off with at least a third of all horses (guessing), as to the overall effort that they will give. That makes it really difficult to gauge if for instance a horse loses by a length while 2-3 wide would have won had it saved all the ground. On paper, and in mathematical theory yes. But in reality? Who knows because we just don't know that horse well enough to make a true judgement.

So the moral to all this that I came up with when I trained was that I will always consider ground loss as a tougher trip that saving ground, I cannot judge it with a number, add or subtract that number, and come up with an answer that will always be correct, which math usually does. This equation has too many subtleties IMO to be finite. So , I certainly consider it, but I don't go all in with it. I allow it to become another parameter that helps me try and solve the puzzle.

Just my opinion but it's what I learned talking to riders over the years and of course, when I was first introduced to it that day in the paddock.

Hope that helps JBEX.

[JBEX]

I think this is an inexact science. Why? Because of several things. A true 3 wide all three way around the turn is a straightforward trip that you can equate. But when is says 7 wide into the lane, exactly when did the horse fan outwards? Typically very late in the run around that far turn to be THAT wide. So if it was for only the last 50 yards, how do you figure that? And more importantly, saving ground, which if a horse is happy to run into that, is always the way to go, there are plenty of horses who will just not fire to the same effort inside horses as they will outside horses. And we as a handicapper, do not know who those horses are.


When I was a groom, waaaay back in the day, and always wanting to learn, I remember when I rubbed the king of the stable, Lucky Lord. It was an honor to be Luck's groom. Proud as I was, I never realized how much I would learn from being around that horse. One day I let him over to a race and after Dutrow saddled him, I walk him around a few times , the riders and coming out and I put him back in his spot for a riders up. I am listening to Dickie give the instructions to Chris McCarron as to how to ride him. Luck was a mid range type closing sprinter.
He says to Chris, "let him settle and get him behind a horse or two. That makes him mean and mad." (It's the spray of dirt hitting him in his face that he didn't like.) " Get him good and mad and swing him out of that spot past the 3/8ths pole, get him clear, and he will kick in." Dammed if that isn't exactly what Chris did and he won which he did very frequently.


I asked Chris (who had the 5 pound bug at the time) when I was with him a day or two later about that and he said that while he had understood what Dickie was saying he had never heard it put that way. Lol.


So what all that means is that while saving ground can be great, it can also hinder a horses effort if they don't like it down there. So there is a trade off with at least a third of all horses (guessing), as to the overall effort that they will give. That makes it really difficult to gauge if for instance a horse loses by a length while 2-3 wide would have won had it saved all the ground. On paper, and in mathematical theory yes. But in reality? Who knows because we just don't know that horse well enough to make a true judgement.

So the moral to all this that I came up with when I trained was that I will always consider ground loss as a tougher trip that saving ground, I cannot judge it with a number, add or subtract that number, and come up with an answer that will always be correct, which math usually does. This equation has too many subtleties IMO to be finite. So , I certainly consider it, but I don't go all in with it. I allow it to become another parameter that helps me try and solve the puzzle.

Just my opinion but it's what I learned talking to riders over the years and of course, when I was first introduced to it that day in the paddock.

Hope that helps JBEX.

see what you mean how when on the turn matters and at the end of the day all this stuff is getting too picky..add a length don't add a length who knows ..going to stick to the measure I said and realize there are flaws to it..couldn't resist the chance to try and incorporate a little geometry into handicapping lol

pretty cool story with lucky lord..shows how individual the tendencies of each horse can be..
guess besides being uncomfortable there some can be angry getting dirt kicked in their face


thanks str


looked up lucky lord..what a hearty competitor he was

https://www.equibase.com/profiles/Results.cfm?type=Horse&refno=287826&registry=T&rbt=TB

[JBEX]

fan duel racing (5:16..nice weather)

R8 #4 bleeding blue (12-1)


thought the race 3 back which preceded a 2nd @ 21-1 was very similiar to his last race..back in 14 days that time and it's 11 today

wanted to see what you think of why i think the preceding races are similar and feel free to disagree


going to round off lengths behind on the running lines


last race (7 horses)
6f/6f
11 days back
43 figure

3/4 * 3/5 *4/11 * 4/17



3 back (7 horses)
5.5f/5.5f
14 days back
34 figure

4/3 * 4/4* 5/8 * 5/14

position and lengths behind
sum at each call..like using this method to compare running lines..this is as similar as it gets for me.. also same distances and field sizes race to race


last race 7/8/15/21

3 back 7/8/13/19

to me (and i may be alone on this) the similar line is important in capping the race along with distance and time inbetween .. i realize my way of determining this is up for debate



also like that the latest figure is 9 pts higher which i believe translates to about 7 lengths



.

[JBEX]

fan duel racing (5:16..nice weather)

R8 #4 bleeding blue (12-1)


thought the race 3 back which preceded a 2nd @ 21-1 was very similiar to his last race..back in 14 days that time and it's 11 today

wanted to see what you think of why i think the preceding races are similar and feel free to disagree


going to round off lengths behind on the running lines


last race (7 horses)
6f/6f
11 days back
43 figure

3/4 * 3/5 *4/11 * 4/17



3 back (7 horses)
5.5f/5.5f
14 days back
34 figure

4/3 * 4/4* 5/8 * 5/14

position and lengths behind
sum at each call..like using this method to compare running lines..this is as similar as it gets for me.. also same distances and field sizes race to race


last race 7/8/15/21

3 back 7/8/13/19

to me (and i may be alone on this) the similar line is important in capping the race along with distance and time inbetween .. i realize my way of determining this is up for debate



also like that the latest figure is 9 pts higher which i believe translates to about 7 lengths



.

troubled trips also last and 3 back

[str]

fan duel racing (5:16..nice weather)

R8 #4 bleeding blue (12-1)


thought the race 3 back which preceded a 2nd @ 21-1 was very similiar to his last race..back in 14 days that time and it's 11 today

wanted to see what you think of why i think the preceding races are similar and feel free to disagree


going to round off lengths behind on the running lines


last race (7 horses)
6f/6f
11 days back
43 figure

3/4 * 3/5 *4/11 * 4/17



3 back (7 horses)
5.5f/5.5f
14 days back
34 figure

4/3 * 4/4* 5/8 * 5/14

position and lengths behind
sum at each call..like using this method to compare running lines..this is as similar as it gets for me.. also same distances and field sizes race to race


last race 7/8/15/21

3 back 7/8/13/19

to me (and i may be alone on this) the similar line is important in capping the race along with distance and time inbetween .. i realize my way of determining this is up for debate



also like that the latest figure is 9 pts higher which i believe translates to about 7 lengths



.

Sure. I see the parallels. And I see that higher number two races back. I like the fact that the winner won off big. Sometimes the total lengths lost by looks worse than it is. In this case, within 4 lengths of everyone with big early trouble.

He should be right with those others again today and IMO can beat them just as easily as they could beat him. So would I like it at 4-1? I mean , I guess it might be ok. But at a 12-1 morning line, those lengths lost is being factored in for no reason because of the early trouble and the winner being 13 of those and not allowed to be in this race.

I think the theory is good by me and makes sense. Worth a swing at those odds I would say.

GL JBEX.

[JBEX]

Sure. I see the parallels. And I see that higher number two races back. I like the fact that the winner won off big. Sometimes the total lengths lost by looks worse than it is. In this case, within 4 lengths of everyone with big early trouble.

He should be right with those others again today and IMO can beat them just as easily as they could beat him. So would I like it at 4-1? I mean , I guess it might be ok. But at a 12-1 morning line, those lengths lost is being factored in for no reason because of the early trouble and the winner being 13 of those and not allowed to be in this race.

I think the theory is good by me and makes sense. Worth a swing at those odds I would say.

GL JBEX.

I didn't think of that before but I agree that the heavy ml has to be partly due to his lengths behind ..as you said 13 of those are between 1st and 2nd and the winner of that race not running here..boy the trainer/breeder/owner really likes to run this horse
..his last 5 starts avg about 13 days apart with none being more than 2 weeks ..he's got decent #'s over a large sample also


thanks str..glad you like him at what might be a decent price although too decent might not be a good sign lol




.

[Easy-Rider 66]

Hey STR: when you cap a race what PP's do you access. I assume the Brisnets? Or maybe DRF? any opinion on the software applications like Stats Race lens or Bet mix? THX.

[str]

Hey STR: when you cap a race what PP's do you access. I assume the Brisnets? Or maybe DRF? any opinion on the software applications like Stats Race lens or Bet mix? THX.

If it's a race or two, Brisnet. But if I know I will be doing a card and putting real time into it, it would be DRF. I guess just because old habits die hard, you know? But I have gotten used to looking at the Brisnet and it's not bad at all.
If I decide to put time into it again, like if I retire and there are plenty of times when I question my sanity as to not retiring, I would have to use the Timeform to at least some extent. I have not looked at it much but I have a huge amount of respect for those that put it together. I think they are the best in the business.
I am not familiar with Stat Race lens or bet mix. I guess I would have to look at all the products out there because if I did it again, I would jump in with both feet I think.

[Easy-Rider 66]

If it's a race or two, Brisnet. But if I know I will be doing a card and putting real time into it, it would be DRF. I guess just because old habits die hard, you know? But I have gotten used to looking at the Brisnet and it's not bad at all.
If I decide to put time into it again, like if I retire and there are plenty of times when I question my sanity as to not retiring, I would have to use the Timeform to at least some extent. I have not looked at it much but I have a huge amount of respect for those that put it together. I think they are the best in the business.
I am not familiar with Stat Race lens or bet mix. I guess I would have to look at all the products out there because if I did it again, I would jump in with both feet I think.

OK STR sounds good. I look forward to the day you retire as I am hoping you join Horse tourneys. LOL. would be cool to play against you and like I have wrote in the past think you would make some bank. So keep me updated. thx.

[JBEX]

belmont

R10 #6 unkoalafied (12-1)

hey str

wanted to see what you thought of this one

for starter's trained by michele nevin (a dick dutrow disciple as is str if others reading don't know)..she's an excellent value on the turf based on roi over a very large sample




debut broke from rail in a 12 horse field vs statebred msw's and finished 9/12..tough spot but probably got some good conditioning and experience from it


back in 5 weeks,gets blinkers and drops into claimers..like that she showed speed at least to the 6f mark especially factoring she's cutting back to a sprint today

returns in about half the time as between the first 2 starts and as mentioned makes the cutback

gets an excellent speed jockey in carmouche


any opinion and feel free to comment on any of them

[str]

belmont

R10 #6 unkoalafied (12-1)

hey str

wanted to see what you thought of this one

for starter's trained by michele nevin (a dick dutrow disciple as is str if others reading don't know)..she's an excellent value on the turf based on roi over a very large sample




debut broke from rail in a 12 horse field vs statebred msw's and finished 9/12..tough spot but probably got some good conditioning and experience from it


back in 5 weeks,gets blinkers and drops into claimers..like that she showed speed at least to the 6f mark especially factoring she's cutting back to a sprint today

returns in about half the time as between the first 2 starts and as mentioned makes the cutback

gets an excellent speed jockey in carmouche


any opinion and feel free to comment on any of them

Definitely got conditioning and experience out of that 1st race. Also, notice the bug boy on for the 1st 2 races. Like you said, a positive rider change. No disrespect to the bug but Kendrick is very solid.

The 2nd race with Blinkers was much better. And agree with the cutback angle.

Returns in 1/2 the time which is ALWAYS a positive for trainers that had R.E.D. as their mentor.

I will add that our mentor was always so solid with 3rd start horses. As a whole, most of us were/are as well. It is typically their best start of the three. We will see if that carries today today.

I looked at this race before I knew who you liked. Obviously Michelle's jumped out at me. Kind of hoped you were going to talk about her.

But so did Linda Rice's horse, the 4. Looks like she filled a race for the secretary's office in that last one. Seven is the magic number racing secretary's need to use a race typically (unless it's a allowance or Stake). That is what they shoot for if the entries are lacking. She probably got the call and said yes. This happens a lot more than people think and is all part of the inner workings of the game. Absolutely nothing nefarious about this. Maybe she didn't draw in a 40k race but she made a 7 horse field in the MSW. Comes back in 8 days and the blinker experiment which failed , they come back off today. Lezcano stays on. Expect a solid effort from this horse.
I might have to box these two if I'm playing and use Michelle to win. Something like that.

Good luck JBEX. Win or lose, this is a solid angle for a price horse. I like it.

[JBEX]

thanks str




interesting angle on linda rice's horse..possible field filler for the racing secretary and/or blinkers back off where she ran well and quick return to the proper level..jock solid


still I think that one will be overbet although the clement firster has a nice pedigree for a ny bred and will surely take some money..can see using linda's in an exacta though





for people not seeing the entries

#4 mo damorninggrouch (3-1) linda rice

#3 hope for the best (5-2) clement firster


#6 unkoalafied (12-1) mine


just win and place for me






.

[Jellymancan]

thanks str



interesting angle on linda rice's horse..possible field filler for the racing secretary and/or blinkers back off where she ran well and quick return to the proper level..jock solid


still I think that one will be overbet although the clement firster has a nice pedigree for a ny bred and will surely take some money..can see using linda's in an exacta though





for people not seeing the entries

#4 mo damorninggrouch (3-1) linda rice

#3 hope for the best (5-2) clement firster


#6 unkoalafied (12-1) mine


just win and place for me






.

#4 (the one I liked) is scratched. Good luck JBEX.

[JBEX]

#4 (the one I liked) is scratched. Good luck JBEX.

thanks for the update jelly..good luck to you also

[JBEX]

thought she ran a decent race..think carmouche made a smart move early by not letting her wind up between horses even though it did mean she'd be racing last..saved ground on the turn .. looked like around the 3/16 he wanted to move her off the rail and between horses (2,8) but there was no room..finished with good energy

[str]

thought she ran a decent race..think carmouche made a smart move early by not letting her wind up between horses even though it did mean she'd be racing last..saved ground on the turn .. looked like around the 3/16 he wanted to move her off the rail and between horses (2,8) but there was no room..finished with good energy

She ran her best race to date, which was what we thought she would do. The rider did about all he could given the circumstances I think. She finished well. The firster ran very well.
Not the best trip but it can't always fall just right. All in all, a solid play that didn't miss by much.

[JBEX]

She ran her best race to date, which was what we thought she would do. The rider did about all he could given the circumstances I think. She finished well. The firster ran very well.
Not the best trip but it can't always fall just right. All in all, a solid play that didn't miss by much.

glad you feel the same way str

and while I got your attention ..


parx

R7 #6 abe's army (4-1)

"army" as in fts by army mule ..cost a decent amount and a nice 4f bullet breeze from the gate .. judging by the sire stats looks he's had a first out winner..they're going 4.5f today





.

[str]

glad you feel the same way str

and while I got your attention ..


parx

R7 #6 abe's army (4-1)

"army" as in fts by army mule ..cost a decent amount and a nice 4f bullet breeze from the gate .. judging by the sire stats looks he's had a first out winner..they're going 4.5f today





.

So far it looks like they all act the same . Pretty much Try to run just like him. Work fast, run fast, gates open , go.
Looking at this horses works, I would expect more of the same.
I guess the price will dictate if there is any value here.

Thanks for the heads up.

[JBEX]

So far it looks like they all act the same . Pretty much Try to run just like him. Work fast, run fast, gates open , go.
Looking at this horses works, I would expect more of the same.
I guess the price will dictate if there is any value here.

Thanks for the heads up.

np str .. good to know you have a favorable early impression of his progeny

[JBEX]

looked to me about 20 seconds in that he didn't care for the kick back

[str]

looked to me about 20 seconds in that he didn't care for the kick back

Just saw the chart.

Yeah, I'll bet he didn't.

That has probably never happened to him before. He didn't understand what the hell was going on.

I guess he had a problem leaving the gate? Or loading? Or a pony? The paddock? Could be any number of things.

I will try and find a replay that shows me something and report back. Might take a day or two but we have time.

PM me and remind me if I have not done so by the weekend.

That is the 1st chart of a Army Mule I've seen that didn't show up ready to roll from the 1st step. He went off 9-5 so it's not like he was not a factor in the minds of the connections.

Thanks JBEX.

[JBEX]

Just saw the chart.

Yeah, I'll bet he didn't.

That has probably never happened to him before. He didn't understand what the hell was going on.

I guess he had a problem leaving the gate? Or loading? Or a pony? The paddock? Could be any number of things.

I will try and find a replay that shows me something and report back. Might take a day or two but we have time.

PM me and remind me if I have not done so by the weekend.

That is the 1st chart of a Army Mule I've seen that didn't show up ready to roll from the 1st step. He went off 9-5 so it's not like he was not a factor in the minds of the connections.

Thanks JBEX.

"parx racing" has a you tube channel (didn't know) that has replays..looks like today's won't be up till tomorrow though..bit of a pain in the ass getting there within the channel although there's probably
an easier way to do it via search. lot's of spinning to get to the most recent races ..I'll post a link tomorrow if I can

[JBEX]

looked like he might've gotten out a little slow from the sideview but nothing terrible

[Easy-Rider 66]

[Easy-Rider 66]

Hey STR: Provided you the replay show from Presque Isle from 6/27/22. The race I am interested in getting your feedback on is Race #4. The horse in Question in the #3 Dominant Stranger. What do you think of the jockey's ride here especially near the end? Someone posted on another forum that this was a horrible ride and the rider did not even try at the end. THX in advance for your opinion. I also I tried to find the race from Parx JBEX and you were writing about yesterday, but could not find the race on You Tube.

[Easy-Rider 66]

If you like to know what a stiff job is watch presque Isle Downs race 4 watch the kid on the three watch how he tightens the rains up and doesn't even try towards the end of the race


This was the take by the poster. It does look to me that the jock tightens the reins late. What say you? THX STR.

[Easy-Rider 66]

One more thing STR. Do not think you can go full screen with the Vid I posted. But if you want to do that go to Presque Isle you tube channel and scroll down a bit for the 6/27/22 replay show.

[str]

So while I do have some questions about the ride( wish I knew if this was a bug boy,/girl, veteran, etc.) it is definitely not what the poster was complaining about.

My issues:


At 5:16 going into the first turn, he/she loses their hold and has to retake a new one . While doing so, the horse takes that as go and wants to run off. Has to be steadied in that 1st turn. VERY frustrating if you are the trainer watching that crap show. That is wasted energy that will be needed through the lane.
Goes left handed, which is fine, @ 6:26,27,29,31 33 and 37. But not 6 times . It's WAY to predictable for the horse. The horse never felt the last 4. After the first two strikes, all that was a waste of time. And if I want to be critical, it is also stupid.

The rider then switches( thankfully) to the right hand but loses control of the horse doing so. The rider also feels the horse switch back to the wrong lead (it's left leg) . (That lead switch was byproduct of not having firm control of the horse). That happens right before the rider is about to try and hit the horse right handed once. At that point, the stride is uncomfortable, the horse is a mess, and if he /she hits the horse right handed on the left lead, the horse will most likely veer way inwards. So the rider grabs hold of the horse to gather it up. That last thing was IMO the smartest part of the ride. Ironic that the poster is complaining about it. The horse was uncomfortable. Out of gas. Probably not feeling sound, and... it looked like the rider was pretty tired as well.

I don't mean to be hard on that jock but the charts are deleted back more than a week.

My question is: who is that rider? Was that a bug? or maybe does not ride much? Whoever it was, that was a rough effort in that the rider made several key mistakes and seemingly had no instincts to try and handle a tough trip. That trip was made harder but the lack of decision making down the backside, into the far turn and most importantly, into the 1st turn when they lost there hold.

Q. If you like to know what a stiff job is watch presque Isle Downs race 4 watch the kid on the three watch how he tightens the rains up and doesn't even try towards the end of the race


A. No. This was not close to what the fan saw, but I understand that anything out of the ordinary might look suspicious. But the last thing that that was, was a stiff job. If that person watches the horses front legs only, they will probably better understand what that was. If not, they can watch along with the times I gave to better understand.

Hope that helps. Follow up if necessary.

Thanks EZ.