Patriots' Trick Play That Got Harbaugh Mad

[Walulu]

Cheap trick is laughable. Teams use gadget plays all the time. So now they're unsportsmanlike for doing so? Stop already.

[slacker00]

I agree, I enjoy the novelty of these gimmicks. I can't wait for the next one. Just wish the announcers could explain it.

[44 Mag]

I agree, I enjoy the novelty of these gimmicks. I can't wait for the next one. Just wish the announcers could explain it.

Al Michaels must be 100 years old by now. LOL.

[jjgold]

Bill out coaches everyone

That is the bottom line

[rocky16]

Not sure who the biggest bitch is, the phagets who are whining or that beta bitch harbaugh. What's next, people gonna complain about play action and reverses. So many whiny bitches on SBR.

[slacker00]

Al Michaels must be 100 years old by now. LOL.

Al is actually ok, it's Collinsworth that drives me nuts. Has he ever said anything that's worth hearing?

[wquine]

creative play call, nothing wrong with that.

[BriGuy]

I know people are going to come in here and claim it was within the rules and yadda yadda. I had Ravens ats and pats ML so this actually helped me, but, i just find it distasteful and unsportsmanlike. Instead of trying to beat their opponent fairly they look for glitches in the rules. Does this surprise anyone at all? I generally got nothing against Belicheck or Brady but they are not making it easy for anyone to respect them and will continue to make us question whether they can win without bending the rules.

Wait a minute. You mean to tell me some team designed an innovative new offensive formation designed to trick the defense and then they did something completely unexpected??!?? I am OUTRAGED!!!

Outlaw all trick plays! Trick plays are unfair and against the spirit of the rules! Outlaw all trick plays!

[BriGuy]

Read. Didn't say it was against the rules. Wanna bet there's a change next year?

I'll take that bet in a heartbeat, but with one caveat: They may change the procedure whereby the referees announce eligibility, but the rule itself own't change.

This was no more "unfair" than when some team lines up a 300 pound offensive lineman as tackle-eligible and then the guy catches a 1 yard touchdown pass because nobody bothered to cover him.

[BriGuy]

Does being a "crybaby" run in the Harbaugh family??? LOL.

Yes, it does. They are both whining, cry baby little bitches.

[BriGuy]

He wasn't complaining about the rule, his complaint was his team didn't have time to lineup (as there was confusion about who were eligible receivers and who weren't). The same way defenses are allowed time to substitute when the offense does. Apparently the officials agreed with him once it was brought to their attention.

Defenses are allowed to bring in substitutes when the offense substitutes, but since when is the defense allowed time to adjust when the offensive players on the field line up in an unusual formation? (That's what timeouts are for)

Furthermore, the Patriots did substitute on that play so the Ravens had their chance to adjust. They ran an offensive lineman off the field and replaced him with a skill position player. It's not New England's fault the Ravens weren't watching who substituted for whom.

[BriGuy]

It was a cheap trick that completely flies in the face of sportsmanship. Disappointing that the Patriots stooped to this level.

Yeah! All trick plays that catch the defense unprepared are cheap! ILLEGALIZE ALL TRICK PLAYS!!! They fly in the face of sportsmanship!!!

There should be a rule that from now on whenever the offense runs a trick play, they have to announce it in advance and send copies of their playbook over to the opposing sideline!!!

[BriGuy]

The problem is the refs didn't give enough notice to the D as to who was ineligible. That's harbaughs beef. Vereen broke the huddle, told the ref he was ineligible, lined up and the ball was snapped right away. Refs pretty much said he was ineligible as te ball was being snapped, so the defence basically didn't even know.

The offense has to line up in a legal formation and come to a complete, 1-second stop before snapping the ball (or sending anyone in motion).

If the defense isn't prepared to adjust to an unusual offensive formation then tough sh*t. Blame your coach for being outsmarted. Don't blame the guy who outsmarted him.

[sneakerhead]

Bama called a similar play against lsu few months ago, seriously harbaugh you have never seen this before lol

bte same play is called fight song on madden, look it up

[Bostongambler]

I know people are going to come in here and claim it was within the rules and yadda yadda. I had Ravens ats and pats ML so this actually helped me, but, i just find it distasteful and unsportsmanlike. Instead of trying to beat their opponent fairly they look for glitches in the rules. Does this surprise anyone at all? I generally got nothing against Belicheck or Brady but they are not making it easy for anyone to respect them and will continue to make us question whether they can win without bending the rules.

What????

It was a great call and execution. What's " unfair" about it?

[Jeffie]

Al is actually ok, it's Collinsworth that drives me nuts. Has he ever said anything that's worth hearing?

Collingsworth hahah guy literally talks out of his ass its hilarious.

[The Kraken]

Same guys probably bitched when Mayweather KO'd Ortiz

[swordsandtequila]

I'll take that bet in a heartbeat, but with one caveat: They may change the procedure whereby the referees announce eligibility, but the rule itself own't change.

This was no more "unfair" than when some team lines up a 300 pound offensive lineman as tackle-eligible and then the guy catches a 1 yard touchdown pass because nobody bothered to cover him.

Jeezus christ you guys need to learn how to read. That's exactly what I said. I never said the play was illegal; Harbaugh's beef was the fact that Vereen signified to the ref he was lining up as an ineligible (legal play) player, basically right tackle. The ref acknowledged this right before the snap, putting the defense at a competitive disadvantage. The officials acknowledged this afterwards. Whether or not Harbaugh should have called a timeout is another discussion.

You never see a player announced as eligible half a second before the snap, so why should this be any different? I guaran-fukkin-tee this is addressed in the off-season. Defense is already hamstrung enough by all the offense friendly rules.

[jtoler]

Just shows that Belly has to use every trick in the book to beat Ravens yesterday, Harbaugh should see it as a sign of respect. Couldnt beat you straight up, needed stuff like this.

[BriGuy]

You never see a player announced as eligible half a second before the snap,

It's bullcrap to say it was a "half-second before the snap". But you must not watch a lot of football; I see these sorts of announcements all the time.

Oh BTW, Alabama ran the EXACT same play against LSU. Funny how no one complained about that. Guess LSU isn't as much of a group of whining bitches as Baltimore fans.

[Double Bogey]

I don't see how you can argue with
a) Patriots hurried up knowing Ravens did not know who was eligible when it's a pretty clear and known part of the game to allow referees to declare this
b) Referees declared it 'unfair' aka 'cheating' when they made sure to state who was ineligible thereafter.

I'm not saying this would have changed the outcome of the game as the Ravens were getting no pressure on Brady and without that he was gonna carve them up regardless. Still, it leaves a bad taste in your mouth. Especially knowing how they've disrespected basic rules of competitive advantage in the past. Maybe its just me being in the military and overvaluing things like honor and respect.

This is a GAME with rules and when you do stuff like that I dont think anybody wants to be in the same room with you afterwards or look you in the eyes imho. I understand they put their lives into these games and I won't detract from Belicheck winning record. But if Lawrence Taylor and Tom Brady didn't fall out the sky into this guy's lap he'd be emptying Bill Parcells -ostomy bag somewhere in south florida.

By your own argument it's a mistake by the officials, not cheating by the patriots. By your argument it's the same as a blown call. It's not up to the patriots to make sure the opposing team thinks everything is fair. Their motivation is simply to win. It's professional sports, whining about things being unfair is laughable.

Be upset at the refs, or better yet be upset with the ravens who didn't call a timeout when things looked fishy. But you absolutely should not blame the patriots. That's like calling teams cheaters for using pick plays that don't quite look like pick plays to skirt the rules.

[swordsandtequila]

It's bullcrap to say it was a "half-second before the snap". But you must not watch a lot of football; I see these sorts of announcements all the time.

Oh BTW, Alabama ran the EXACT same play against LSU. Funny how no one complained about that. Guess LSU isn't as much of a group of whining bitches as Baltimore fans.

Player in Bama game didn't wait 'til the last second to announce. Not a Baltimore or NE fan, has nothing to do with it. As stated numerous times, just explaining Harbaugh's contention. Believe what you want, there will still be a change. Relax.

[BriGuy]

Player in Bama game didn't wait 'til the last second to announce.

Neither did Vereen. It was handled exactly the same way as when you see a team line up a 300 pound lineman and declare him tackle eligible.

The fact that you have to make stuff up shows the bankruptcy of your stance.

[ThaTopMoron]

It's the Pats... why are any of you surprised?



all I know is in the rules the refs are supposed to announce it and give appropriate time for the defense to make their own substitution to counter

that's the Raven's beef

[BriGuy]

It's the Pats... why are any of you surprised?



all I know is in the rules the refs are supposed to announce it and give appropriate time for the defense to make their own substitution to counter

that's the Raven's beef

No such rule exists. You're making sh*t up. They have to give appropriate time for offensive substitutions - which they did. They don't have to give anything when the offense lines up in an unusual formation.

The offense has to come to a complete stop and set for 1 full second prior to the snap. If the defense can't figure out what is going on then tough titties.

[ThaTopMoron]

No such rule exists. You're making sh*t up.

like when the Offense makes substitutions and then tries to no huddle but the refs stand in front of the ball and don't let them snap it because if you make changes the defense is allowed to make their own subs

same thing

[BriGuy]

like when the Offense makes substitutions and then tries to no huddle but the refs stand in front of the ball and don't let them snap it because if you make changes the defense is allowed to make their own subs

same thing

No it's not the same thing. Like I said, you're just making sh*t up right now.

[ThaTopMoron]

No it's not the same thing. Like I said, you're just making sh*t up right now.

When you declare a receiver ineligible, that MOVE is considered a substitution (even if the same players are still on the field, they changed position) the rule states that when an offense substitutes, the refs must allow proper time for a counter defensive adjustment/substitution. The Patriots would inform the refs on the way to the line, and the refs allowed them to snap the ball almost immediately after announcing, thus not giving the Ravens proper time to counter. This makes it an illegal substitution.

prove me wrong.

[BriGuy]

When you declare a receiver ineligible, that MOVE is considered a substitution (even if the same players are still on the field, they changed position) the rule states that when an offense substitutes, the refs must allow proper time for a counter defensive adjustment/substitution. The Patriots would inform the refs on the way to the line, and the refs allowed them to snap the ball almost immediately after announcing, thus not giving the Ravens proper time to counter. This makes it an illegal substitution.

Like I said 3 times now: you're making sh*t up.

prove me wrong.

Well since you asked, OK.

NFL rules, Section 3, Article 1 - Reporting Change of Position:

"An offensive player wearing the number of an ineligible pass receiver (50–79 and 90–99) is permitted to line up in
the position of an eligible pass receiver (1–49 and 80–89), and an offensive player wearing the number of an eligible pass
receiver is permitted to line up in the position of an ineligible pass receiver, provided that he immediately reports the
change in his eligibility status to the Referee, who will inform the defensive team.


He must participate in such eligible or ineligible position as long as he is continuously in the game, but prior to each play he
must again report his status to the Referee, who will inform the defensive team. The game clock shall not be stopped, and
the ball shall not be put in play until the Referee takes his normal position."

Please show me the part where it says this is considered a substitution and the defense has to be given time to adjust. All is says it the ref has to be given time to get in position. It doesn't say a single word about giving the defense time to substitute.

[Wrigley]

It was within the rules so no complaining

[ThaTopMoron]

Like I said 3 times now: you're making sh*t up.
Well since you asked, OK.

NFL rules, Section 3, Article 1 - Reporting Change of Position:

"An offensive player wearing the number of an ineligible pass receiver (50–79 and 90–99) is permitted to line up in
the position of an eligible pass receiver (1–49 and 80–89), and an offensive player wearing the number of an eligible pass
receiver is permitted to line up in the position of an ineligible pass receiver, provided that he immediately reports the
change in his eligibility status to the Referee, who will inform the defensive team.


He must participate in such eligible or ineligible position as long as he is continuously in the game, but prior to each play he
must again report his status to the Referee, who will inform the defensive team. The game clock shall not be stopped, and
the ball shall not be put in play until the Referee takes his normal position."

Please show me the part where it says this is considered a substitution and the defense has to be given time to adjust. All is says it the ref has to be given time to get in position. It doesn't say a single word about giving the defense time to substitute.

Looks good to me. As long as the refs did inform the Ravens and not 1 second before the ball was snapped. I would have to watch a replay.

here from a report:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/ravens-insider/bal-baltimore-ravens-coach-john-harbaugh-tries-to-stop-new-england-patriots-deception-with-penalty-20150110-story.html

The Patriots would snap the football as soon as the ineligible receiver was announced, using the configuration on three plays.

Raven's coach is mad about the deception part because even if refs announce said guy is ineligible... what are the Raven's to do about it if it is snapped immediately after? no time for all 11 on defense to identify who is ineligible and who is eligible (guy at right tackle at the time)

Good subject to discuss.

[Double Bogey]

I don't see how it's different than announcing a player is eligible. As long as they announced the player number as ineligible, it's all on the defense to figure it out. To suggest that a defense should be given extra time to line up their defense is dumb. That's like saying the play should be held up if the defense gets out of their huddle too slow to line up.

[BeanTownClown88]

I know people are going to come in here and claim it was within the rules and yadda yadda. I had Ravens ats and pats ML so this actually helped me, but, i just find it distasteful and unsportsmanlike. Instead of trying to beat their opponent fairly they look for glitches in the rules. Does this surprise anyone at all? I generally got nothing against Belicheck or Brady but they are not making it easy for anyone to respect them and will continue to make us question whether they can win without bending the rules.

U think tb and bb give a shit?

[ThaTopMoron]

I don't see how it's different than announcing a player is eligible. As long as they announced the player number as ineligible, it's all on the defense to figure it out. To suggest that a defense should be given extra time to line up their defense is dumb. That's like saying the play should be held up if the defense gets out of their huddle too slow to line up.

how do they figure it out when the ball is snapped as fast as they can snap it after the ref announces said guy is ineligible? 11 men on defense communicate with each other that's the only way defense can actually be played and get stops lol

Raven's coach is mad about that part, it is deceptive

[Double Bogey]

Why is it not cheap to announce a tackle eligible. It's the same thing, but I don't hear anyone saying that's cheating.