Hunt's TDD defense is good, his sub defense is poor.
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You lost me here gabe...
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The last time Hunt has been submitted was against McCorkle, who may I add was tooled on the ground by Struve. Since then, Hunt has faced Tuscscshehererer, Kongo, and Rothwell, fighters with nowhere near the BJJ and submission games of McCorkle or Struve. How do you know his sub defense has improved?Comment -
Hunts hands > Struve's chin. I like Struve as a fighter, but he doesn't utilize his reach and can't take a big punch.Comment -
Struve in no way has the footwork to do that plan. That's the reason he's always backed up into the cage and TKO'ed. Hunt's ground game has improved? In what way? His TDD has improved but his ground game is an absolute joke. That wasn't a lucky submission by Struve, he has an excellent ground game. It's in fact, what he's famous for...Hunt is famous for looking asleep/confused on the ground. If Struve gets Hunt to the ground (really not extremely difficult) he'll submit him. If Hunt is able to defend the takedown, Struve loses by TKO.Comment -
Can't believe you're comparing Struve to Carlos Condit...wtf gabe too much celebrating after a successful event?Comment -
I agree with the carlos condit assessment except not carlos condit but Semmy Schilt if Struve utilizes a Schilt type strategy in which he backs up keeps himself out of the way and utilizes his long jab and front teep he could keep the distance, tire Hunt out and attack from the outside with that said I think Struve just has too many habits of leaving himself wide open to strikes so playing that game while your standup defense has flaws in it is like playing Russian roulette. I think the best chances of winning are a submission victory or a decision victory if he uses a smart gameplan and follows through which is sort of a lot to ask.
I would give it to Hunt 60/40 just because of his dangerous KO power which can completely shift the fight in his favor at any moment in the fight. With that said that 40 I give to struve because he has a much longer reach and height advantage which also can used to neutralize Hunts strengths. I think Struve's fight IQ is lower than Hunts but his ground game is what sets him apart from his fight being a completely lopsided fight with Struve on the losing end.Comment -
struve is young and surely has improved some. how much idk but if he has learned 2 use his height and reach hunt will be in trouble. if he hasnt improved his standup defense and footwork hunt will prob ko him. im lookin at hunt by ko and if struve looks good early i will bet him online cuz he should have cardio advantageComment -
Nope I can't, he hasn't shown to be the one to come in with gameplans he's the type of fighter that comes in and fights wherever the fight goes, if it goes to the ground he goes to the ground if it stays standing he stays standing, he's not elite in any aspect but good on the ground and has good stand up. He tends to get out muscled but has a good ability to get himself out of trouble on the ground. When it comes to stand up he has holes in his defense and he doesn't tend to utilize his reach and height to it's potential. He's very tall and lanky which makes it harder for his foot work and speed.
We should look up some kickboxing matches and see if Hunt ever faced a giant 7 footer in k1Comment -
Mark Hunt vs Semmy Schilt
wonder if struve is studying this videoComment -
lol hunt has iron chin but glass gutComment -
That's the typical way a Gabe winner comes in. He outlines some ridiculous scenario that has no empirical evidence, seems the most unlikely outcome, yet somehow it comes through. Caceres v Escovedo for example.
If Gabe says that Struve is going to float like a butterfly and sting like a bee, then it will happen. If Gabe says that Hunt has the better ground game then Struve, then somehow it will be true.
Matthew 18:18Comment -
You're supposed to be a smart guy, yet you're saying I compared them? Saying Struve's best chance at winning is using a similar game-plan means I'm comparing their skills? Again, you are supposed to be taking all these hard classes in school, so I assumed you were a smart guy... making me wonder.Comment -
I had Caceres picked, but he lost... wtf? My predictions are usually right on the money.
Please, tell me which ridiculous scenarious you're talking about... If you think they're all ridiculous and yet keep happening, then you too shouldn't be providing your opinion on fights.
Damn, just so hard to tell whose opinions to take seriously...Comment -
I lost a lot of money on Caceres. I think you forgot to take your medication today, brah.
And my prediction was Caceres would outstrike Figureoa for three rounds... that's what happened, but he lost due to the 2pt reduction for groin kicks...
Anyway- go take your meds.Comment -
are you saying i picked figureoa and predicted he would win because caceres would be deducted points and then it ended up happening?
lol silly guy-- ya don't even make senseComment -
Hasn't displayed that level of skill....ever...against opponents who are much much worse than Hunt on the feet. Struve's kickboxing is wonderfully average, (Hunt's on the other hand...) he has only done well when the fight went to the ground and he was able to land effective ground and pound, or the one time he landed a crazy lucky counter.
If you think that this fight is going to decision (a habit neither guy has...) and is the most likely option rather than a KO by hunt or a submission by struve....then...well...
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WTF? Do you even read anything I say? I said TKO by Hunt is the most likely outcome. A decision is the most likely outcome for STRUVE.Hasn't displayed that level of skill....ever...against opponents who are much much worse than Hunt on the feet. Struve's kickboxing is wonderfully average, (Hunt's on the other hand...) he has only done well when the fight went to the ground and he was able to land effective ground and pound, or the one time he landed a crazy lucky counter.
If you think that this fight is going to decision (a habit neither guy has...) and is the most likely option rather than a KO by hunt or a submission by struve....then...well...
Struve hasn't displayed what level of skill? The motherfkker is a dutch kickboxer who has made his way to the UFC... if you don't think he can kickbox for three rounds, then gtfo my thread.
I have Hunt to win the fight, I'm just saying that a decision Struve's best shot at winning. I don't see him submitting Hunt. Anyway, I'm done w/ your dumbass.Last edited by gabe; 05-17-12, 02:04 AM.Comment -
"If any of you think Condit could work his game plan against Diaz, but it's not possible for Struve to do it against a much slower, much shorter guy with an incredibly shorter reach advantage, then you shouldn't even be giving your opinions on MMA fights."
By suggesting that Struve has the ability to successfully employ a strategy similar to Condit's, you are inferring that both fighters have a similar skillset in kickboxing that would enable them to employ this strategy, thereby comparing the two. There is sufficient evidence that confirms that Condit is a very capable and talented kickboxer who can use such skills in an MMA fight consistently and be successful.
Struve is not horrible standing (he can hang with guys like Morecraft, Buentello, Herman), but against the better strikers he has faced (JDS, Nelson, Browne), any reach advantage or Dutch kickboxing background has proven irrelevant. He does not use his reach, and his striking defense is horrible. I just can't see Struve outpointing a K-1 kickboxer in a kickboxing match essentially.
The actual reason why Struve is in the UFC, where Struve really thrives, is his BJJ and submission game. This area of his game has proven the most successful for him. The last time Hunt faced anyone decent on the ground, he got submitted almost immediately. Can't see why Struve's main objective wouldn't be to pull guard immediately.Comment -
No, that does not imply that they have the same skillset. It only implies that IF you are completely retarded. You are saying that every fighter who uses that same strategy has the same skillset as Carlos Condit?
No- he likely will not win. That does not change the fact that outpointing Hunt with a similar gameplan is his best chance at winning.
After months of being here, I've found it completely pointless to argue about fights. I've come to learn most of you don't know what you're takling about. Not pointing any fingers, just saying.Last edited by gabe; 05-17-12, 02:51 AM.Comment -
Just look at Struve's last fight against Barry, a fighter with a fighting style similar to Hunt's (and Hunt has much better hands than Barry). In the first round, Struve tried to use his reach and out kickbox a kickboxer. It was an eventful round, but MMAJunkie gave the round to Barry.
The second Struve grabbed a hold of Barry and made the fight into a grappling match, he absolutely tooled Barry en route to a quick and very easy triangle. Struve can attempt to outpoint Hunt on the feet, but his best chance is ABSOLUTELY grabbing a neck, getting in the clinch, pulling guard, something to get this fight to the ground. That is where he is most dangerous.Comment -
Struve can't do the same to Barry now. That fight got Barry motivated to improve his submission defense drastically. And what he tried against Barry was not a Condit-esque gameplan, so it is irrelevant that you bring it up. I suggested a Condit-esque game-plan is his best shot at victory, not "outkickboxing" Mark Hunt.Comment -
He's never displayed that sort of skill to be able to implement that plan against a K1 striker in Hunt....in any fight, ever. He's never even come close! On the other hand he has an elite submission game and Mark Hunt sort of has...pretty much all of his losses by submission.Comment -
I must disagree. Barry's ground game is still very rudimentary. We saw that in his inability to submit Lavar Johnson. Surviving one armbar from Morecraft is not enough to convince me he can hang with Struve on the ground. With Struve's long and dexterous limbs he can pull off way more submissions than Morecraft, especially the triangle. His BJJ of his back (his trangle, his sweeps) is way more dangerous than Morecraft's also. Struve is still a badass purple belt, and Barry is still an ever-improving, yet very green BJJ player. Hunt, like Barry, is improving, but Struve still has way more years of BJJ practice under his belt.Comment -
Your making a lot of sense Vitooch, and this seems to be going back and forth and back and forth, but the big question we need to ask ourselves is will hunt be able to KO struve before he is taken down and submited? That is the big question here. We know how each fighter can lose but how do you predict it actually unfolding, that is the question. Struve has demonstrated nice trips in the past and could very forseeably apply that technique to hunt and then quickly lock up a sub. Conversely Hunt could very easily catch struve with his accurate and proving striking ability. Sometimes the smartest bet is a no-play, unless you guys can convince me otherwise. But judging by the way this debate is going it is sounding more and more like a no-play by the post.Comment -
Struve by spinning back kick late round 1
Or Hunt by Overhand right early round 1
Last edited by Imsmarterthanu; 05-17-12, 04:20 AM.Comment -
It is a no play, But gabe is suggesting that a Struve sub would be lucky, and the only tangible chance he has of winning is by outpointing Hunt on the feet. Apparently i am a retard for disagreeing with...Comment -
A Struve sub wouldn't be lucky. A Struve KO would be lucky. He isn't strong enough to get Hunt into a position of submission. In terms of luck, he got lucky catching Pat Barry with a triangle... he would need similar luck to catch Hunt... except I think Hunt will be tougher to catch than the Pat Barry of 2011.
I'm personally not going to play it myself... as of now, anyway... who knows how I feel as time goes on... but so far, I'm content with just keeping Hunt in my parlays. I've lost a lot of money betting against both Hunt and Struve. A LOT of money.
I don't think you're retarded... you just said some dumb things, like I compared Struve to Condit just because I said he needs to employ a similar strategy.
I'm not even backing Struve... I'm backing Hunt... I was just giving my opinion on what I think Struve needs to do to improve his chances of winning this fight. If he fights the way he normally does, he will get knocked out. He needs to employ a Condit-esque gameplan while avoiding power shots to the face in order to win. I think that would be the best strategy for him. You think the best strategy is for him to try to take Hunt down and submit him... Yeah, we completely disagree. While he attempts to take Hunt down, he's gonna leave himself open to getting KNOCKED THE FUHK OUT!!! I believe Struve's best shot at winning is to employ a Condit-esque gameplan, and he likely will not do it, and will get knocked out, and I will win...Comment -
wow so many f*ing variables what a ridiculous fight to wager on, this is one of those fights where you juts simply should-not-bet. I'm putting over a grand on JDS ITD fer sure though.Comment