Why do managers wait until a pitcher is killed before making the move?

[PaperTrail07]

Example Today in the Detroit Game...Green is throwing Good until the 4th....He then-hits a guy--Then gives up a double...then gives up a HR...and (2) more singles before getting out of it....Next inning he gets a guy out....then single...single....single...HR....I mean my GOD...if you didnt see that coming you should be FIRED.....obv shook in 4...then you watch him burn in the 5th....could EASILY have made the change after for , or you know...the 3 straight singles....LOL.....seems like they want them to fail IMO...what do you think....Old school, Hard Headed....wtf is the deal here?

[BadLuckSanta]

fix is in obviously

[PaperTrail07]

I mean almost to that point of thinking....managers making millions making rookie decisions

[Jerm3085]

Sometimes you gotta wonder what those phone calls to the dugout are really about 😕

[Pushbet]

Manager read that "no extra innings parlay" thread.

[VeggieDog]

I hear ya. Watching an Angels game, I'll scream at the tv to pull the pitcher, but Scioscia acts like he can't hear me.

[44 Mag]

I mean almost to that point of thinking....managers making millions making rookie decisions

Would that be Like Farrell leaving in Bucholtz last week: 3rd inning gave up like 7 hits and 9 runs before he takes him out??? LOL. They are everywhere, these so called managers. Mattingly is another clown. The list is endless, good point you brought up. I am sure there are other guys on here smarter than me that could go on all day.

[PaperTrail07]

Exactly...lol at that point leave him in ..game is lost...lol..

Would that be Like Farrell leaving in Bucholtz last week: 3rd inning gave up like 7 hits and 9 runs before he takes him out??? LOL. They are everywhere, these so called managers. Mattingly is another clown. The list is endless, good point you brought up. I am sure there are other guys on here smarter than me that could go on all day.

[posey]

I don't think you should make fun of managers or their decisions. Of course there are better and worse managers who make better or worse decisions. But don't believe that they don't try to do the best and do not know more than us.

In my opinion you have to look at it this way. You know, 1 game is 1 game. I bet that they want to win every game they play, but I also bet that they are okay with losing an occasional game. Depending on different circumstances (e.g. fatigue of the bullpen, importance of the particular game and so on) managers may leave a pitcher on the mound although he struggles. In the end it doesn't matter if you lose the game 1-2 or 0-10. Of course it will have an impact on your confidence, your mood and much more. But I bet that major leaguers are not as affected by such games like the general public. Public often acts like one game would be the end of the world. But this isn't the truth. 1 game is 1 game of 162 games. Besides that, you have to look at the pitcher. All guys are different. While pitcher A will be happy when he's off and gets pulled after 2 innings, pitcher B may be out of confidence when you pull him because of such an outing. Most regular MLB starters are expected to pitch more than 25 games of a season. It's a fine line. As a manager you will have to make the right decision and of course some are wrong, but many are right. You have to look at the big picture and not at one single game or outing.

Being a Giants fan I have learned to trust your manager. Bochy's decision often looked like complete nonsense in the recent years. And you all know how often the Giants won the WS in recent years. So it seems like he does more right than wrong. Most of Bochy's teams didn't have the highest quality and his decisions looked very awkward quite often. Apply this thinking to other managers and other teams and remember that the regular season consists of 162 games for every team.

Me myself was someone in the past who often joked about managers. But they know much more than us.

[44 Mag]

I don't think you should make fun of managers or their decisions. Of course there are better and worse managers who make better or worse decisions. But don't believe that they don't try to do the best and do not know more than us.

In my opinion you have to look at it this way. You know, 1 game is 1 game. I bet that they want to win every game they play, but I also bet that they are okay with losing an occasional game. Depending on different circumstances (e.g. fatigue of the bullpen, importance of the particular game and so on) managers may leave a pitcher on the mound although he struggles. In the end it doesn't matter if you lose the game 1-2 or 0-10. Of course it will have an impact on your confidence, your mood and much more. But I bet that major leaguers are not as affected by such games like the general public. Public often acts like one game would be the end of the world. But this isn't the truth. 1 game is 1 game of 162 games. Besides that, you have to look at the pitcher. All guys are different. While pitcher A will be happy when he's off and gets pulled after 2 innings, pitcher B may be out of confidence when you pull him because of such an outing. Most regular MLB starters are expected to pitch more than 25 games of a season. It's a fine line. As a manager you will have to make the right decision and of course some are wrong, but many are right. You have to look at the big picture and not at one single game or outing.

Being a Giants fan I have learned to trust your manager. Bochy's decision often looked like complete nonsense in the recent years. And you all know how often the Giants won the WS in recent years. So it seems like he does more right than wrong. Most of Bochy's teams didn't have the highest quality and his decisions looked very awkward quite often. Apply this thinking to other managers and other teams and remember that the regular season consists of 162 games for every team.

Me myself was someone in the past who often joked about managers. But they know much more than us.

Hey brother, we here you, I am sure they know their players better than us. But, after watching baseball for 55+ years, it isn't "rocket science" to figure out somethings, like that bucholz game I mentioned. The guy is getting "shelled" in the top of the THIRD inning, gives up 9 runs, and you wait til then to take him out. Maybe his bullpen was tired I don't know it is still April, LOL. For that matter you could have brought in the left fielder and let him pitch. LOL. You won't convince me on that one.

[PaperTrail07]

Dont agree.....1 game is 1 game...so why pull him AFTER he's let in all the runs....who cares at that point right?-leave him in--......Good managers put their players in good situations to win....bad ones adjust when they are losing....I agree with 44...if WE see it coming....you KNOW they did....its bullshit....There are 10-20 games every year won with decision making and it can be +10 or -10....big swing in baseball even though they do have that many games...

I don't think you should make fun of managers or their decisions. Of course there are better and worse managers who make better or worse decisions. But don't believe that they don't try to do the best and do not know more than us.

In my opinion you have to look at it this way. You know, 1 game is 1 game. I bet that they want to win every game they play, but I also bet that they are okay with losing an occasional game. Depending on different circumstances (e.g. fatigue of the bullpen, importance of the particular game and so on) managers may leave a pitcher on the mound although he struggles. In the end it doesn't matter if you lose the game 1-2 or 0-10. Of course it will have an impact on your confidence, your mood and much more. But I bet that major leaguers are not as affected by such games like the general public. Public often acts like one game would be the end of the world. But this isn't the truth. 1 game is 1 game of 162 games. Besides that, you have to look at the pitcher. All guys are different. While pitcher A will be happy when he's off and gets pulled after 2 innings, pitcher B may be out of confidence when you pull him because of such an outing. Most regular MLB starters are expected to pitch more than 25 games of a season. It's a fine line. As a manager you will have to make the right decision and of course some are wrong, but many are right. You have to look at the big picture and not at one single game or outing.

Being a Giants fan I have learned to trust your manager. Bochy's decision often looked like complete nonsense in the recent years. And you all know how often the Giants won the WS in recent years. So it seems like he does more right than wrong. Most of Bochy's teams didn't have the highest quality and his decisions looked very awkward quite often. Apply this thinking to other managers and other teams and remember that the regular season consists of 162 games for every team.

Me myself was someone in the past who often joked about managers. But they know much more than us.

[posey]

Will answer later. Only in my mobile right now.

[PaperTrail07]

Cool- Take a look at the STL game today....Rook pitcher was in OBVIOUS trouble....they pulled him "EARLY" in the 3rd....has now been scoreless from that point on and they appear to be moving on to win the game....GREAT MOVE by the manager...mystery they always near the top of the division...Had he left that rook in, it was almost a gurantee he gives up more runs....some manager leave him in-hell its only 1 game----come on......there are managers and then there are idiots wearing a managers uniform...

[posey]

And because you are smarter than them you are a MLB manager. How can you compare completely different games...

[posey]

Maybe take a look what this oh so intelligent Cards manager did with Lance Lynn in the Brewers game.

[posey]

Would that be Like Farrell leaving in Bucholtz last week: 3rd inning gave up like 7 hits and 9 runs before he takes him out??? LOL. They are everywhere, these so called managers. Mattingly is another clown. The list is endless, good point you brought up. I am sure there are other guys on here smarter than me that could go on all day.

Buchholz retired 6 of the first 7 batters he faced, gave up one single and struck out 3 of them.
In the top of the third he walked the first guy on 4 pitches. In the next AB he gave up a single and had runners on the corner with no out. 10 of his next 12 pitches were strikes but the Blue Jays were lucky and singled in all of the next 3 ABs. In the next AB Boston conceded an error. This inning looked much worse on paper than it was in reality. He did give up nothing than singles, threw mainly strikes and was kinda unlucky. Okay, you could think about getting this guy out nonetheless. I agree here. And maybe it would have been the wiser decision.
But:
- the Red Sox LR Workman is on the DL and the other guys are no typical long relievers
- so please remember that the Red Sox had some ugly games shortly before this game in which the whole bullpen was used a lot and pitched multiple innings (look at this one for example: http://espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=350426101)
- please don't act like you would have known that an inning gets completely out of hand considering how Buchholz did over the first 2 innings and gave up only a walk and a single at the start of the third

If you have an account, re-watch the game at MLB.tv (or at least the top of the third). It's archived and easily available. Buchholz was not as off as it looks on paper. And the Red Sox were up 4-0 after the 2nd. When you have runners at the corner with no out you do not warm up a reliever.

Now of course you would have already had a reliever warming up in the pen, right? Or your roster would have relievers who need no warmup so you don't need to? Would you be without fear of using a big part of your bullpen for multiple innings, when it has pitched multiple innings over the days before and it has proven that you can't rely on it?

The Red Sox BP already has pitched the 2nd most innings of all BPs in the MLB and the 3rd most over the last 14 and the last 7 days. You can't burn your bullpen so early in the season.

On the other side the Jays were down 0-4 after the 2nd inning and their starter was still in the game when the Red Sox pulled Buchholz.

This is not meant as an offense, but think about that. Don't pick single parts of a big picture and think that the single part makes up for the big picture.

[PaperTrail07]

Lucky and hit a single the next 3 AB's....not all people hitting a single is luck...pitcher is obv readable throwing over the center of the plate