Heritage new teaser payouts are garbage

**LT Profits** · 08-30-12, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by sharpcat

But the odds are better on the ones nobody should play!

**sharpcat** · 08-30-12, 05:31 PM

Originally posted by LT Profits

But the odds are better on the ones nobody should play!

Can't believe they hyped this for weeks as the best teasers in the business and come out with 3 team NFL teasers that pay +116 when plenty of shops are offering +180

**Easy-Rider 66** · 08-30-12, 05:38 PM

Originally posted by sharpcat

Can't believe they hyped this for weeks as the best teasers in the business and come out with 3 team NFL teasers that pay +116 when plenty of shops are offering +180

Seems low indeed. One book i checked had a 3 teamer 6 point swing ties win pays +172. Another book at +155.

**yisman** · 08-30-12, 06:05 PM

You can tell ganchrow is involved.

You pay a premium on Wong teasers, giving you better prices on the trash teasers.

**LT Profits** · 08-30-12, 08:26 PM

Originally posted by yisman

You can tell ganchrow is involved.

You pay a premium on Wong teasers, giving you better prices on the trash teasers.

Also paying a premium from 6.5 to 0.5, so now MLs are always better then teasers there when line is between -6 and -7

**BackDoorCover** · 08-30-12, 09:46 PM

Ridiculous. They made teasers WORSE for 90% of their players, and had the balls to call it the industry's (spelled incorrectly on their site) best teasers!
I get it, they don't want Wong teasers, but just make the change, don't piss on us and tell us its raining!

**Nittany Lion** · 08-30-12, 10:50 PM

Originally posted by sharpcat

Can't believe they hyped this for weeks as the best teasers in the business and come out with 3 team NFL teasers that pay +116 when plenty of shops are offering +180

Should have included a link in your OP so I didn't have to hunt it down:

Session Has Expired https://heritagesports.eu

http://membersa.heritagesports.eu/heritage_teasers.asp

Anyways, the premium charges they do are crap, it makes the payouts kind of sucky if you cross the 7 and go through the 3. The chart shows they pay out +191 for a 3 team 6pter which is even better then 5Dimes, but if you do the teaser with 3 premiums it' only +116.

5Dimes teaser payouts are better if you are in the point mover program. 3 team 6 point teaser pays out +180 for ties reduce, and I don't think they do that premium thing.

5Dimes Promo Teaser Rates:

Attention Required! | Cloudflare

http://www.5dimes.eu/sb_charts/TeasersChartPromo.htm

**megamillionslose** · 08-30-12, 11:47 PM

Heritage management forgot to ask TheGreek to throw in an extra big pair of balls

after they absorbed TheGreek's clientele since they had none to begin with.They shockingly limited my NFL teaser wagers last year & i'm not anywhere close to being a pro gambler.Ever chart how often they move the lines on steam?They probably run for cover after Grandma Moses also piles on with her $20 wager(LMAO)!They only allow a whopping $250 on CFB added games where Bookmaker will take a hit for $5K without blinking an eye.The icing on the cake was when i tried to bet multiple $100 exacta wagers on a MNR race last month(Bookmaker classifies that as a Tier 2 track with a $15K max payout per race & also gives 8% daily internet exotic rebates)& was shocked to discover those Heritage pussies were only willing to accept a measly $20 exacta wager!!My honeymoon with Heritage is definitely over!They only troll for suckers.Wouldn't be surprised to see a majority of sharps they absorbed kicked out within the next 12 months

**Ganchrow** · 08-31-12, 12:27 AM

It's not that we don't want Wong teasers in general, it's that we don't think it wise to book them at a loss.

Obviously we're in this business to make money and writing teasers with a majority of Wong legs is antithetical to that goal.

The reality is that close to 95% of the teasers we've booked over the past year wouldn't have had any premium applied ... Nearly all of our teaser players are just picking sides to tease without regard to "Wong" legs. For this the bulk of our teaser players, there's no question that our enhanced payouts offer significantly better value compared to the odds offered by our competitors.

For example, our 3 and 4 team 6-point teasers, provided they're not packed half full of Wong legs, pay out at +191 and +316, respectively.

That's considerably better than the industry standard, and that represents tangible value for nearly all of our teaser playing customers.

Yes, we do charge more for Wong teaser legs (if at least half the legs qualify, i.e. pass through the 3 and touch the 7) but that's just proper pricing of NFL teasers. We don't think it's fair to charge more on ALL teasers just because a small fraction might merit lower payout odds.

The fact is that if you're a recreational teaser player there's no better deal out there than what you'll find at Heritage.

Once upon a time books would let you buy on and off the NFL 3-point in straight wagers for only 10c.

Clearly, that was an unwise pricing decision and the industry has since evolved, now charging much more to buy the 3 than other points (rather than just charging a more on *all* points across the board).

We view our teaser pricing model as analogous.

**Dark Horse** · 08-31-12, 12:37 AM

Pity they didn't split off the original Heritage from this merged joint. Could have had two cool books, instead of one weird place.

**wrongturn** · 08-31-12, 07:55 AM

When you see payout chart is accurate to the last digit, like +104, -109, -113 etc, you know the odds of finding values there is not that great.

**Ganchrow** · 08-31-12, 08:33 AM

Originally posted by wrongturn

When you see payout chart is accurate to the last digit, like +104, -109, -113 etc, you know the odds of finding values there is not that great.

Nah, we were just trying to payout a little better where we could. -109 rather than -110, -113 rather than -115.

That and I never did quite believe in keeping to "significant digits". Just look at my half point calculator or pretty much any of my old posts ... ;-)

**blackbart** · 08-31-12, 09:35 AM

paying a premium?
-134 is ridiculous, -120 was and is a ripoff
pity ganch went to work for the opposition

**BigDaddy** · 08-31-12, 09:38 AM

what a joke.

**LT Profits** · 08-31-12, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by LT Profits

Also paying a premium from 6.5 to 0.5, so now MLs are always better then teasers there when line is between -6 and -7

Actually scratch this, the -6.5 to -0.5 teaser does get the better odds. Their "premium" teasers touch 7 AND cross 3, so premium = Wong

**HedgeHog** · 08-31-12, 11:11 AM

Heritage just lost all my teaser action. The same 2-team teaser (1 college with one NFL) that used to be even money is now -113. This is the big improvement I anxiously waited for...really? I think Ganch might be too smart for his own good as this change is going to needlessly chase action elsewhere. I understand how effective Wong teasers are but the new pricing is an extreme overreaction.

**Ganchrow** · 08-31-12, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by blackbart

paying a premium?
-134 is ridiculous, -120 was and is a ripoff
pity ganch went to work for the opposition

Sometime you just gotta do what you gotta do.

Yes, clearly -134 is quite high ... but remember that it only applies to 2-team 6-point NFL teasers with both legs Wong. Depending upon your specific choice of starting line that's about 4.5% vig, which is hardly unreasonable, in my opinion.

If you're only playing one Wong leg in a 2-team teaser you'll get -113, which is still pretty decent in the current environment that features many of our competitors charging -120 for the same very teaser.

What it really comes down to is that we just don't think it wise to bend over and book Wong-packed teasers at a loss. On the other hand, provided most of a teaser's legs are not Wong (which to reiterate, applies to the vast, vast majority of our teaser action), we're able to provide truly industry-leading prices.

So that's what we're doing ... no smoke, no mirrors ... I really want to be as straightforward as possible here and in all candor I believe that this pricing mdoel represents an extremely positive change for the bulk our customers.

**sideloaded** · 08-31-12, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by Ganchrow

Sometime you just gotta do what you gotta do.

Yes, clearly -134 is quite high ... but remember that it only applies to 2-team 6-point NFL teasers with both legs Wong. Depending upon your specific choice of starting line that's about 4.5% vig, which is hardly unreasonable, in my opinion.

If you're only playing one Wong leg in a 2-team teaser you'll get -113, which is still pretty decent in the current environment that features many of our competitors charging -120 for the same very teaser.

What it really comes down to is that we just don't think it wise to bend over and book Wong-packed teasers at a loss. On the other hand, provided most of a teaser's legs are not Wong (which to reiterate, applies to the vast, vast majority of our teaser action), we're able to provide truly industry-leading prices.

So that's what we're doing ... no smoke, no mirrors ... I really want to be as straightforward as possible here and in all candor I believe that this pricing mdoel represents an extremely positive change for the bulk our customers.

you mean losers

**HedgeHog** · 08-31-12, 12:14 PM

Originally posted by Ganchrow

We view our teaser pricing model as anal.

I shortened the last word in your quote to reflect what you meant to say.

**sharpcat** · 08-31-12, 12:37 PM

This appears to be the same business model that the US horse racing industry is running with.

Sometimes allowing a few players to go back and tell others that they won is better for business in the long run than ass raping everybody with a 20% hold.

**Justin7** · 08-31-12, 01:44 PM

Originally posted by LT Profits

Actually scratch this, the -6.5 to -0.5 teaser does get the better odds. Their "premium" teasers touch 7 AND cross 3, so premium = Wong

This 2-team 6-point teaser is paying +104 (going from 6.5 to 0.5) at Heritage. There are clear opportunities to use this.

I'm really surprised people are crying. If you're a sharp, you use what is given to you or pass. There are PLENTY of good things for sharps to bet at Heritage. And if you're a rec player (which most people are, even forum posters), this pays you more in the long-run.

Seriously though. Do you expect a book to just throw away money to wong players?

**yisman** · 08-31-12, 01:51 PM

Ganchrow, the part I take issue with is all the advertising about how Heritage has easily the best prices on teasers in the industry, etc.

Not on playable teasers.

I understand changing it around to remove a perceived edge, but then don't go gung ho with the ads.

Heritage is still my favorite book, but I'll just have to do teasers elsewhere.

Originally posted by Justin7

This 2-team 6-point teaser is paying +104 (going from 6.5 to 0.5) at Heritage. There are clear opportunities to use this.

I'm really surprised people are crying. If you're a sharp, you use what is given to you or pass. There are PLENTY of good things for sharps to bet at Heritage. And if you're a rec player (which most people are, even forum posters), this pays you more in the long-run.

Seriously though. Do you expect a book to just throw away money to wong players?

For me, I wouldn't have even said anything. It was just the ads that got to me.

You're surprised people don't like it? That's what happens when books charge more for some things. People don't like it.

**LT Profits** · 08-31-12, 02:10 PM

Originally posted by Justin7

This 2-team 6-point teaser is paying +104 (going from 6.5 to 0.5) at Heritage. There are clear opportunities to use this.

Yes I agree, I originally thought that Heritage premiums were those that touched 7 OR crossed 3, which was my mistake.

**wrongturn** · 08-31-12, 02:14 PM

Originally posted by LT Profits

Actually scratch this, the -6.5 to -0.5 teaser does get the better odds. Their "premium" teasers touch 7 AND cross 3, so premium = Wong

I won't be surprised if we see -7 instead of -6.5. We know how smart Ganch is.

**LT Profits** · 08-31-12, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by wrongturn

I won't be surprised if we see -7 instead of -6.5. We know how smart Ganch is.

And Ganchrow > Tony

**cloverfield** · 08-31-12, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by Justin7

I'm really surprised people are crying.

Thats hilarious.
They could give people $500 no rollover and there would be complaining.

**HedgeHog** · 08-31-12, 03:11 PM

Originally posted by Justin7

This 2-team 6-point teaser is paying +104 (going from 6.5 to 0.5) at Heritage. There are clear opportunities to use this.

I'm really surprised people are crying. If you're a sharp, you use what is given to you or pass. There are PLENTY of good things for sharps to bet at Heritage. And if you're a rec player (which most people are, even forum posters), this pays you more in the long-run.

Seriously though. Do you expect a book to just throw away money to wong players?

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of both Heritage and Ganch. However, these new teaser prices are lousy, especially given the lead-up as the best in the industry. What a letdown! My 2-team college/pro teaser use to be even money, now it's -113, and I'm just playing these for entertainment. You can still guard against Wong w/o these horrible prices like 5-Dimes does (3 teamers at +116....really???).

**Justin7** · 08-31-12, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by HedgeHog

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of both Heritage and Ganch. However, these new teaser prices are lousy, especially given the lead-up as the best in the industry. What a letdown! My 2-team college/pro teaser use to be even money, now it's -113, and I'm just playing these for entertainment. You can still guard against Wong w/o these horrible prices like 5-Dimes does (3 teamers at +116....really???).

It is much more difficult to place value teasers at 5dimes than heritage.

**HedgeHog** · 08-31-12, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by Justin7

It is much more difficult to place value teasers at 5dimes than heritage.

Ok, but would you agree that Heritage now has the" best teaser prices in the industry"? Do you plan on giving Heritage the brunt of your teaser action because of this "revolutionary" change in price structure? You can sugarcoat this all you want, but overall the new prices suck. And if you've identified a few value opportunities, watch how quickly they dry up. They'll be tagged as "J7" teasers with prices 50% below what other books offer too.

**Justin7** · 08-31-12, 06:24 PM

Originally posted by HedgeHog

Ok, but would you agree that Heritage now has the" best teaser prices in the industry"?

Yes if you're not playing wong teasers (e.g., bill the cop teasers). I don't know any book offering 2-team 6-point NFL teasers at +104. To that extent, they are best-priced. 3-teamers pay +191. Other teasers probably pay better as well.

If you are a pro, your other options are:
1. Play at a shit-book with good odds and hope you get paid;
2. Play at bookmaker where all teaser have low odds, not just wong teasers (2-team 6-pt teasers are -120);
3. Play at 5dimes where all teaser spreads are adjusted, so you have to buy an extra 3 half-points to get a good wong teaser (oh no, you're paying -130 now!); or
4. Play at Pinnacle, laying -110 for 2 teamers, and watching some key numbers defended.

Every quality book has a way to stifle wong teasers. At least Heritage gives some of it back to the smaller players.

**LT Profits** · 08-31-12, 07:08 PM

Originally posted by Justin7

Yes if you're not playing wong teasers (e.g., bill the cop teasers). I don't know any book offering 2-team 6-point NFL teasers at +104. To that extent, they are best-priced. 3-teamers pay +191. Other teasers probably pay better as well.

If you are a pro, your other options are:
1. Play at a shit-book with good odds and hope you get paid;
2. Play at bookmaker where all teaser have low odds, not just wong teasers (2-team 6-pt teasers are -120);
3. Play at 5dimes where all teaser spreads are adjusted, so you have to buy an extra 3 half-points to get a good wong teaser (oh no, you're paying -130 now!); or
4. Play at Pinnacle, laying -110 for 2 teamers, and watching some key numbers defended.

Every quality book has a way to stifle wong teasers. At least Heritage gives some of it back to the smaller players.

Bill the Cop teasers are crap though, they were all built via data mining.

**blackbart** · 09-01-12, 10:10 AM

what exactly would constitute this 90% of teasers that dont touch 7 or cross 3?
maybe double digit fav's teased down, and why would anybody want to do that?
give some examples of this 90%
no way justin is going to pay -134 no matter how he tries to spin it

**evo34** · 09-08-12, 01:42 AM

5. Don't rely on oudated gimmicks (teaser mispricings) to fuel your PnL. Beat lines in highly liquid markets. Rinse. Repeat.

Originally posted by Justin7

Yes if you're not playing wong teasers (e.g., bill the cop teasers). I don't know any book offering 2-team 6-point NFL teasers at +104. To that extent, they are best-priced. 3-teamers pay +191. Other teasers probably pay better as well.

If you are a pro, your other options are:
1. Play at a shit-book with good odds and hope you get paid;
2. Play at bookmaker where all teaser have low odds, not just wong teasers (2-team 6-pt teasers are -120);
3. Play at 5dimes where all teaser spreads are adjusted, so you have to buy an extra 3 half-points to get a good wong teaser (oh no, you're paying -130 now!); or
4. Play at Pinnacle, laying -110 for 2 teamers, and watching some key numbers defended.

Every quality book has a way to stifle wong teasers. At least Heritage gives some of it back to the smaller players.

**blackbox** · 09-08-12, 03:02 AM

instead of teasing-especially in these bad odds see if a two team money line parlay has a better price. just a thought. gl--mainly with the favorites.