Diamond Limits? Say it aint so SBR

**bigboydan** · 09-21-08, 06:25 PM

This is a question that would be best answered by the gentlemen in the office sir.

**Tosser** · 09-21-08, 06:33 PM

It is not unusal for some of the books with the P label to limit sharp players, when they think there is a decent chance that the player will beat them long-term.

Look at it this way, at many recreational shops you would have been cutted after a few wagers.
And to much lower amounts, or even shown the door.
When considering that DSI is still a good book for Pros, the P in the rating doesn´t mean that there will never be any action taken against a player thou.

If SBR would only rate books as P, where noone ever had his limits cut in the past, there would be none left prolly (yep i know Pinny maybe..but hard to tell).

**TeamPlayer** · 09-21-08, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by Tosser

It is not unusal for some of the books with the P label to limit sharp players, when they think there is a decent chance that the player will beat them long-term.

Look at it this way, at many recreational shops you would have been cutted after a few wagers.
And to much lower amounts, or even shown the door.
When considering that DSI is still a good book for Pros, the P in the rating doesn´t mean that there will never be any action taken against a player thou.

If SBR would only rate books as P, where noone ever had his limits cut in the past, there would be none left prolly (yep i know Pinny maybe..but hard to tell).

And I can live with $1000 limits on all staight wagers. I suppose it's still reasonable.

However, do you think that Diamond limits successful members to amounts lower than $1000 in the same situation? Because if they would limit honest members to amounts such as $500 or less, then wouldn't that be draconian? Wouldn't that be enough reason to question the "professional" rating?

**Mudcat** · 09-21-08, 07:16 PM

Draconian? That's getting a bit extreme. People aren't being forced into a life of slave labor at DSI because of their betting patterns. We're just talking about limits being reduced.

I'm not meaning to be unsympathetic. If you are giving an accurate representation of your situation, I would probably be disappointed too. I can't get too carried away though. They aren't trying to steal your money. You can go somewhere else.

As for the "P" designation, in my experience DSI is more worthy of it than all but a few books. As Tosser said, if you removed it from every book that had upset someone like this, there would be none left - including Pinnacle.

Honestly, there would be nothing but rec books with "D" ratings if SBR kneejerked after every report that is made.

But sure, your situation would be disappointing. Your betting patterns sound, if anything, a bit tamer than mine and I have never had a problem there. Did you try talking to someone at DSI about it?

**Peep** · 09-21-08, 07:51 PM

Sadly, sportsbooks do not owe anyone a living.

It is a zero sum game in that if you win 100K, they lose 100K.

**TeamPlayer** · 09-21-08, 08:34 PM

yes, I spoke to them. They said they designate some players as being sharps and thus limit them for the purpose of reviewing their own odds and changing them if they feel it necessary. They don't want to take big hits against them from a designated sharp. And apparently, the member may still call in and request a larger wager once diamond has reviewed their line.

At least, that's how I understood the explanation, which seems logical to me.

My concern here is regarding the extent of limit collars. Considering the size of a book and the extra financial stress put on the books by Bush and the Republicans, one can argue that 1000 or even 500 dollar limits are reasonable in order to review a line. However, limit collars down to 300 or 200 or 100 wouldn't make sense in terms of calling yourself a "professional" book. I would hope that SBR would agree with me on this but I don't know.

Peep,
A professionally run book should not view the business as a zero-sum game because they are supposed to take a position in the middle with 50% money for the favorite and 50% for the underdog, and maintain it. They're supposed to make money from the commission/juice, whatever you want to call it.

**TeamPlayer** · 09-21-08, 10:39 PM

2 more points:

1.) I thought the definition of "professional" partially meant a well-managed book which "professionally" makes sure to set their lines in the middle of the wagering action. Therefore, they always make a profit on the juice. And therefore, they shouldn't need to place severe limits down in the 300 or 200 or 100 dollar range. Some limiting is okay but isn't there a limit to the limits? Again, we're talking about "professional," books here. It wasn't my idea to give a book a "professional" classification. I'm just trying to understand this term better.

2.) After looking at SBR's reviews of the A+ "professional" books only, I do see that the reviews of the other ones, Greek, WSEX, Pinnacle, Bookmaker, all specifically mention "no limit collars." The review of Diamond fails to mention anything negatively or positively regarding Limit Collars.

It gives the impression that the others don't put on limit collars for normal straight wagers at least.

Or it a case that they all do it but diamond is quicker to do it?

**DIF** · 09-22-08, 01:21 AM

1000$ is for me a good bet(ON-LINE). Most of the european books take lower than 100$/bets for sharper guys. william hill for exampe have my stakes at 0.

The most important thing. They pay.

I can make good value for bets for 500$ or 1000$ bets. Thats a good stake.

you can also use a couple of CRIS books for higher stakes. CRIS-DSI-BOOKMAKER.com

I think thats great. IMO I never had any problem so far with CRIS-books. fridays free withrawals is also great.

**TeamPlayer** · 09-22-08, 02:16 AM

Originally posted by DIF

1000$ is for me a good bet(ON-LINE). Most of the european books take lower than 100$/bets for sharper guys. william hill for exampe have my stakes at 0.

The most important thing. They pay.

I can make good value for bets for 500$ or 1000$ bets. Thats a good stake.

you can also use a couple of CRIS books for higher stakes. CRIS-DSI-BOOKMAKER.com

I think thats great. IMO I never had any problem so far with CRIS-books. fridays free withrawals is also great.

I agree with each of your points, DIF.

And especially in today's difficult political environment and the financial stresses associated with it, I understand any "professional" Book's rationale for Limit Collars in the $1000 range down to....I suppose even $500. Figure that they just don't make the same income that they had before the 2006 UIEGA. Thus they need to be more careful.

I like Diamond sportsbook and still recommend to anybody. I'm not complaining about them.

Again, the concern here is that they don't mess around with excessively low Limit Collars such as below $500. (I would draw the line at $500. Maybe others draw it at 700 or 600 or 1000?) Anyhow, I haven't heard of these excessively low limit collars occurring at Diamond and they told me over the phone that it wouldn't occur. Hopefully, it's the truth.

(Those European books are worthless and a waste of time if you have any real intentions of actually making money instead of pissing it away)

**Peep** · 09-22-08, 07:53 AM

Peep,
A professionally run book should not view the business as a zero-sum game because they are supposed to take a position in the middle with 50% money for the favorite and 50% for the underdog, and maintain it. They're supposed to make money from the commission/juice, whatever you want to call it.

Agreed they SHOULDN'T, but my point is they DO.

How you think or I think they should operate doesn't have much to do with it. The books are more gamblers than they are books IMO. They don't want to balance action, they want to maximize profit by getting people to bet the "wrong side" of a shaded number. If you don't, you seem to get the boot or limits cut rather quickly.

**Mudcat** · 09-22-08, 10:06 AM

As far as SBR's "P" designation for professional, I think that, like all SBR ratings, a grain of salt is required. For my first several years betting full-time, 5 Dimes had that "P" rating. Even if no one had ever been collared there - (I have never been collared there) - it was still hard to make sense of that given how their on-line limits work.

But everyone close to the industry knows that, even with their low limits, many people get further slashed at 5 Dimes.

I had many a debate about that, including when I was a mod here. Well, it got changed eventually anyway.

When I read about your situation, I feel like you are being centered out for some reason. You obviously feel the same way. That sucks.

**kiwi** · 09-22-08, 06:44 PM

The only real 'P'-books are the asian books (and Pinnacle). Unfortunately they are not useful for us sports.

**RickySteve** · 09-22-08, 06:51 PM

My account is limited to a $500 straight wager per team at DSI. $0 on all parlays. This is a flat-out recreational book.

**RickySteve** · 09-22-08, 06:58 PM

To Mudcat:

I respect your posts and you appear to be a winner at this. Hence I'm curious how every book discussion, from DSI to the squarest of the square, includes you saying, "Always had a good experience and never been collared there." I confuzed.

**Tosser** · 09-22-08, 09:31 PM

I think there are a few rating steps missing between recreational and professional, on a scale from 1 (Bet 3.65) to 10 (Pinny) i would prolly set a 7 for DSI.

**TeamPlayer** · 09-22-08, 09:33 PM

Originally posted by RickySteve

My account is limited to a $500 straight wager per team at DSI. $0 on all parlays. This is a flat-out recreational book.

Thank you for the info, RickySteve. It's very very Interesting! $500 limit...

SBR should re-evaluate it's "Professional" rating for Diamond because a $500 dollar Limit Collars for straight wagers/per team is low! That being said, I can live a $500 limit as I understand we are living in a difficult political enviroment. But I've got to draw the line at $500! Anything less cannot be considered "Professional" in my opinion.

I believe you because I was told on the phone that I could be put down to a $500 limit collar within a few months if I kept winning. Again, I have NEVER broken any rules nor cheated in any way, shape or form. And never made any big money on any single wager/parlay or anything. I have a positive balance only because I'm disciplined and do my homework. I don't even talk to anybody who wagers in my private life because I don't know anybody who does it. Furthermore, I've been a member at Diamond less than 1 year and am not up even that much.

To SBR Moderators and SBRJOHN and anybody else there:

Can you please tell us at what point a sportsbook becomes a "Recreational" book instead of a "Professional" book. In other words, How much of a Limit Collar can a Book put on honest members regarding straight wages before the book is downgraded from Professional to Recreational book in your guidelines?

**Mudcat** · 09-23-08, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by RickySteve

To Mudcat:

I respect your posts and you appear to be a winner at this. Hence I'm curious how every book discussion, from DSI to the squarest of the square, includes you saying, "Always had a good experience and never been collared there." I confuzed.

I thought this was such an interesting question with the potential for valuable discussion, I started a new thread.

If anyone is interested.

**bbets365** · 09-26-08, 07:11 AM

some days ago betcris made limit only 250 USD for me on all soccer ligae (((

**thespeculator** · 09-26-08, 08:39 AM

Originally posted by Tosser

I think there are a few rating steps missing between recreational and professional, on a scale from 1 (Bet 3.65) to 10 (Pinny) i would prolly set a 7 for DSI.

this sounds the most logical to me, i have know first hand dealing with DSI , but the SBR ratings are letter based , not numerical , as we remember in our school days an A can be from 90 to 100 or B 80 to 89, there is quite spread in between

**TeamPlayer** · 09-27-08, 12:10 AM

Originally posted by bbets365

some days ago betcris made limit only 250 USD for me on all soccer ligae (((

Are their original limits on Soccer lower than MLB, NBA, NFL and NHL? Hence, a lower Limit Collar? I hope so because a $250 Limit Collar on NHL, NBA, NFL, MLB would be UNPROFESSIONAL. (I don't know anything about soccer)

**diamondsonweb** · 01-13-09, 03:22 PM

Great book. I highly recommend them. Know what their payout limits are for various methods though. You can request 1 payout per week. Call and ask what the payout limits are for the various methods and the fees.

**HeeeHAWWWW** · 01-13-09, 03:27 PM

Spamtastic.

I've always wanted to buy extremely expensive jewellery off someone with the credibility to spam a forum. Says a lot about their reliability, I think.

**RonPaul2008** · 01-13-09, 05:16 PM

Betting steam is NOT cheating!

Originally posted by TeamPlayer

Is it normal for Diamond sportsbook to limit a member to $1000straight wagers in all sports considering that the member has never "cheated" in any way (no syndicates, no steam, etc)

**Scorpion** · 01-13-09, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by DIF

IMO I never had any problem so far with CRIS-books. fridays free withrawals is also great.

Does this include payouts by FedEx? Are they free?