Betfair Admits Failure To Reveal Identity Fraud

bigboydan · 09-30-11, 02:12 PM

That's not good news to hear for players that are playing there.

Ruifgalmeida · 09-30-11, 03:25 PM

WTF

Scooter · 09-30-11, 04:21 PM

Just one more example of why Scooter resists sending out personal ID documents.

For that matter, I don't let local companies copy my license on a copier anymore - they can look at it and copy the info by hand if they need it. Copiers have hard drives which retain the copy info.

Some people spend years trying to straighten out their credit after incidents like this.

sideloaded · 09-30-11, 05:06 PM

where is Hareeba?

Hareeba! · 09-30-11, 05:34 PM

Originally posted by sideloaded

where is Hareeba?

where I always am

do you have a point to make?

BAUS · 09-30-11, 06:24 PM

The entire concept of online sportsbooks and casinos requesting ID and other verification documents is BS anyway. It's just there to delay the payout process and to discourage using multiple accounts.

If they really cared about not letting under-age people using their site to gamble, they would ask for ID up front, like at a blackjack table in Vegas.

BAUS

Hareeba! · 09-30-11, 06:47 PM

Originally posted by BAUS

The entire concept of online sportsbooks and casinos requesting ID and other verification documents is BS anyway. It's just there to delay the payout process and to discourage using multiple accounts.

If they really cared about not letting under-age people using their site to gamble, they would ask for ID up front, like at a blackjack table in Vegas.

BAUS

If you're referring to Betfair (or indeed any of the books in the regulated jurisdictions of the UK and Australia) it is a requirement of legislation, just as it is for banks and other financial institutions as part of the process of combating illegal operations such as terrorist funding and drug dealing via money laundering.

Anyone joining one of these books is plain stupid not to comply with the ID requirements up front and then there is no issue of delaying payouts.

BAUS · 09-30-11, 08:28 PM

I was mostly referring to carribean books. If the UK books are following regulations that's great.

Asking for verification before a withdrawal can take place is obviously backwards.

BAUS

brettels · 09-30-11, 09:29 PM

There is nothing wrong with the verification process before withdrawals system. It only needs to be done once and those that have issues with it are obviously up to no good. Why people sook about it is just strange. Its so easy, for us non criminals.

sideloaded · 10-01-11, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by brettels

There is nothing wrong with the verification process before withdrawals system. It only needs to be done once and those that have issues with it are obviously up to no good. Why people sook about it is just strange. Its so easy, for us non criminals.

yep giving known thieves in costa rica all your personal information is always fun.

acw · 10-01-11, 06:12 PM

Originally posted by sideloaded

yep giving known thieves in costa rica all your personal information is always fun.

I stopped betting with Caribbean books long time ago already as I no longer considered them financially sound and yes this ID thing also worried me, but it now seems as if BetFair in all aspects is totally no different!

Hareeba! · 10-01-11, 07:02 PM

Originally posted by acw

I stopped betting with Caribbean books long time ago already as I no longer considered them financially sound and yes this ID thing also worried me, but it now seems as if BetFair in all aspects is totally no different!

what an utterly absurd comment!

I'd wager that there would be no book on the planet with more security in place and certainly not in Cost Rica!

Plenty of the world's largest corporations including banks have had their data hacked including several far larger than Betfair.

Bottom line on this story is that there have been no reports (or at least none I've seen) where any customer lost out due to it; the data was in a form which was adequately encrypted so that it wasn't of use to the criminals

Jontheman · 10-02-11, 04:42 AM

Originally posted by mrmarket

Online gambling firm [url="www.sportsbookreview.com/sbr/betfair/"]
Betfair said that one of the reason is did not tell its customers was because its security measures made any data unusable for fraudsters.
...

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/betfair-adm...150717966.html

Given the last sentence, this isn't really a story is it. "Betfair's security measures are adequate" is not such a good headline though...

Monte · 10-02-11, 05:05 AM

BF are fucktards, an exchange being such a pain in the ass is surely amazing.
Hareeba you are clueless as usual, it is nearly impossilble to hack good security systems made by pros.
Notice that i said *good*, BF prolly had a piece of shit software for it like Sony and the others that have been hacked.

Hareeba! · 10-02-11, 05:30 AM

Originally posted by Monte

BF are fucktards, an exchange being such a pain in the ass is surely amazing.
Hareeba you are clueless as usual, it is nearly impossilble to hack good security systems made by pros.
Notice that i said *good*, BF prolly had a piece of shit software for it like Sony and the others that have been hacked.

Are you really suggesting that the Caribbean or any other bookies have more secure systems?

Monte · 10-02-11, 05:34 AM

Who makes the pointless posts now? I didn't even mention "caribbean books".
BF security is worthless if hackers can steal everything, no need to compare as you are the one who celebrates them as heroes at any given chance.

You are really dropping son, down to mindless spammer status...spreading your endless wisdom in every topic while only wildly guessing and knowing nada.

lukahh · 10-02-11, 06:04 AM

Originally posted by Hareeba!

Are you really suggesting that the Caribbean or any other bookies have more secure systems?

their high tech is there for you to see when they ask you for password or you see your password in the URL line

Pat McCrotch · 10-02-11, 06:52 AM

it does not matter what country the book is based, it takes 1 rougue worker and ur donald ducked,

it could be betfair, the greek or any other book.

if fraud happens using ur details then we have to take the blame as we sent the details!!!

Hareeba! · 10-02-11, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by Monte

Who makes the pointless posts now? I didn't even mention "caribbean books".
BF security is worthless if hackers can steal everything, no need to compare as you are the one who celebrates them as heroes at any given chance.

You are really dropping son, down to mindless spammer status...spreading your endless wisdom in every topic while only wildly guessing and knowing nada.

Sorry, it was acw who compared them to the Caribbean books

But my point remains .. if you don't have sufficient confidence in Betfair's security which books would you put ahead of them in that regard? I don't think you'd be playing at any of them. And you probably shouldn't be putting money into banks which services either.

And as I said before who lost anything out of this? Have you seen any reports of players' info being misused due to it?

Hareeba! · 10-02-11, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by lukahh

their high tech is there for you to see when they ask you for password or you see your password in the URL line

??

never ever seen that

could you please elaborate

stevenash · 10-02-11, 04:26 PM

Yet they are an 'A' rated SBR book.

Hareeba! · 10-02-11, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by Pat McCrotch

it does not matter what country the book is based, it takes 1 rougue worker and ur donald ducked,

it could be betfair, the greek or any other book.

if fraud happens using ur details then we have to take the blame as we sent the details!!!

yes, that is true but the levels of security and encryption do vary significantly and it would require a far more sophisticated crook to get away with it at the more secure establishments

for example at most of the CR books the staff can access your password and presumably all your other details ... that's not the way it is at the best books such as Betfair or any bank I've ever come across.

stevenash · 10-02-11, 04:39 PM

If I'm an account holder at Betfair, I'd be more than pissed if my information got stolen and I wasn't informed of it.

I'd be more than pissed.

Hareeba! · 10-02-11, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by stevenash

Yet they are an 'A' rated SBR book.

yes, and so what's your particular criticism of them?
can you name a book who's security you'd place more faith in ... and why?

stevenash · 10-02-11, 05:07 PM

What's my particular criticism of them?

Is this a trick question?

Their customers personal information got stolen, Betfair kept their customers whose ID got stolen out of the loop because they feared the repercussions if this news went viral.

You kidding? You can not be that stupid to ask this question?

Let me state it terms you might understand.

Let's say you got 6 figures at Chase.
Let's say some hackers got into your Chase checking account.
Chase did not inform you because Chase thought the bad publicity would be bad for business.

Would your reaction be "I understand Chase, it's OK" ?

Sorry dude, I expect better from an 'A' rated SBR book.

Hareeba! · 10-02-11, 05:32 PM

Originally posted by stevenash

What's my particular criticism of them?

Is this a trick question?

Their customers personal information got stolen, Betfair kept their customers whose ID got stolen out of the loop because they feared the repercussions if this news went viral.

You kidding? You can not be that stupid to ask this question?

Let me state it terms you might understand.

Let's say you got 6 figures at Chase.
Let's say some hackers got into your Chase checking account.
Chase did not inform you because Chase thought the bad publicity would be bad for business.

Would your reaction be "I understand Chase, it's OK" ?

Sorry dude, I expect better from an 'A' rated SBR book.

Firstly I see that you failed to answer as to which book(s) you would trust to have better security.
Secondly, nobody got hurt because the data was encrypted and useless to the theives
Thirdly, my reading of the reason they didn't release the news earlier was that they were requested to keep it quiet so that it didn't jeopardise ongoing investigation into other such crimes, rather than anything to do with adverse publicity but of course that doesn't make headlines
That Chase stuff is just a dreadful analogy

stevenash · 10-02-11, 05:51 PM

The point is not did any customer get hurt or not?

The point is BF got hacked into, the customers information did indeed get stolen, and hurt or not, as a customer he/she has a right to know their secure information could have been compromised.

This is a cover up attempt, plain and simple.

You really believe the reason they didn't release the news earlier was that they were requested to keep it quiet so that it didn't jeopardise ongoing investigation into other such crimes?

That's like telling the woman who just got molested to keep quiet so it doesn't jeopardize ongoing such investigations into other such molestations.

What book would I trust more than BF now?

Any book that would inform me if my data was stolen, who would not try to cover up such an incident.

I would need to make a few calls to find out which books have better security than BF, but I'm willing to bet there are a few.

I don't know who you are, or what you do, but I've been an I/T operations analyst for 20 years, trust me, I don't need a lesson in Secured Socket Layer protocols, or 128-bit encryption keys, believe me, I don't, but I'm willing to bet there are more secure sites out there than BF

p.s. That Chase stuff is a spot on analogy.

Hareeba! · 10-02-11, 06:18 PM

Originally posted by stevenash

The point is not did any customer get hurt or not?

The point is BF got hacked into, the customers information did indeed get stolen, and hurt or not, as a customer he/she has a right to know their secure information could have been compromised.

This is a cover up attempt, plain and simple.

You really believe the reason they didn't release the news earlier was that they were requested to keep it quiet so that it didn't jeopardise ongoing investigation into other such crimes?

That's like telling the woman who just got molested to keep quiet so it doesn't jeopardize ongoing such investigations into other such molestations.

What book would I trust more than BF now?

Any book that would inform me if my data was stolen, who would not try to cover up such an incident.

I would need to make a few calls to find out which books have better security than BF, but I'm willing to bet there are a few.

I don't know who you are, or what you do, but I've been an I/T operations analyst for 20 years, trust me, I don't need a lesson in Secured Socket Layer protocols, or 128-bit encryption keys, believe me, I don't, but I'm willing to bet there are more secure sites out there than BF

p.s. That Chase stuff is a spot on analogy.

ok IT guru I can't wait to learn who's better than Betfair at security
which books do you play at? .. I'm willing to bet none of them are up to Betfair's standard

and that Chase stuff would be spot on IF any Betfair customer's account had been hacked as a result and IF they had failed to inform the customer but I've not read any such reports and given all the Betfair bashers out that there you'd think it wouldn't have surfaced ?
until then that analogy simply fails the test

stevenash · 10-02-11, 06:26 PM

My primary book is 5Dimes. I'm willing to bet their security is at least as good as BF.
I don't know for sure, since there was never a need for me to know.
But as Garth once sang, "I have friends in Low Places (in this case high places) trust me on this, I can find out pronto.

I have a question or two?

1) Is there another source besides BF that they didn't release the news earlier was that they were requested to keep it quiet so that it didn't jeopardise ongoing investigation into other such crimes?

Or is this coming from BF and nobody else.
That statement would be much more credible if I heard it from someone other than BF

2) Does BF pay SBR for advertising here?

Hareeba! · 10-02-11, 06:44 PM

Originally posted by stevenash

My primary book is 5Dimes. I'm willing to bet their security is at least as good as BF.
I don't know for sure, since there was never a need for me to know.
But as Garth once sang, "I have friends in Low Places (in this case high places) trust me on this, I can find out pronto.

Unless I'm mistaken, at 5D you are asked by the phone and live help operators for your password?

That alone is lax enough security for me not to play there.

Originally posted by stevenash

I have a question or two?

1) Is there another source besides BF that they didn't release the news earlier was that they were requested to keep it quiet so that it didn't jeopardise ongoing investigation into other such crimes?

Or is this coming from BF and nobody else.
That statement would be much more credible if I heard it from someone other than BF

I understand your viewpoint on that but I don't know and haven't gone seeking any. All I'm going on is this extract from the link and I have no reason to doubt it's accuracy:

"Betfair said that one of the reason is did not tell its customers was because its security measures made any data unusable for fraudsters.
It also insisted that it was able to recover all data intact.
The other reason was because it didn't want to interfere with the investigation on a similar attack made on Sony, which was being carried out by the UK's Serious Organised Crime Agency.
Sony suffered two massive attacks of identity theft from its Playstation Network just before the revelation about Betfair, which saw 100 million of its users have their personal details stolen.
Betfair said it had contacted the Australian Federal Police and German authorities over the attack."

Originally posted by stevenash

2) Does BF pay SBR for advertising here?

Do BF advertise on SBR?
If so I don't expect it comes free.

stevenash · 10-02-11, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by Hareeba!

Do BF advertise on SBR?
If so I don't expect it comes free.

If BF does pay SBR for adertising, and if they are indeed involved in a cover up scandal, would you expect them to maintain their 'A' rating.

Hareeba! · 10-02-11, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by stevenash

If BF does pay SBR for adertising, and if they are indeed involved in a cover up scandal, would you expect them to maintain their 'A' rating.

I'm not going to be drawn into an assassination of SBR on the basis of a question full of dubious 'if's.

Justin's never been shy of putting the boot into Betair on the basis of unproven allegations.

stevenash · 10-02-11, 07:44 PM

From where I sit, this is a cover up attempt by BF.
Unless I see who told BF they were requested to keep it quiet so that it didn't jeopardise ongoing investigation into other such crimes, the only conclusion one can draw is nobody requested BF to keep quiet, the whole statement lacks credibility without a source.

It's a fabricated statement to save face.

These are the parameters for an A- to A+ rating

A- to A+ Elite, top 1% of all Sportsbooks, Guaranteed safety & quality.

Does BF based on the yahoo piece in post #1 guarantee safety?
They were hacked into, there is no guarantee to safety.
This incident alone disqualifies BF from an A an rating.

Why does BF continue to carry an A rating if they can not guarantee safety?

This is where (according to SBR guidelines) BF belongs.

C- to C+ Average to below average cust. service with some risk to players funds.

stevenash · 10-02-11, 08:27 PM

Waiting??

Why does this book still carry an 'A' rating, based on the facts reported?