The Greek NBA Draft Prop Bet Dispute

[Raleigh77]

I appreciate everyone's feedback and support. While I would really like to recover my $720 I feel I am rightfully owed, I think this dispute speaks to a bigger issue going on in this industry we all love, which is honesty and integrity. Scooter's post was beautifully written and all we as players want is to be treated fairly, if we win a bet, dont cancel our bet, just pay us without cheating.

I have forwarded my entire e-mail correspondence with the Greek to Lou who got back to me quickly in an effor to resolve this dispute. I still fail to see how any book can claim this as an obvious line error when multiple other books were offering the same price at the same time and honored their bets, and also when I can produce numerous NBA mock drafts whose information stated the bet at over/under 3 could have gone either way.

At any rate, hopefully this will be resolved shortly and the Greek will do the right thing.

[nyplayer33]

Scotter post 100 percent on the mark

[wrongturn]

When did greek send the notification email? If there was plenty of time before post, greek may feel a little bit unfair that the issue is raised after the void bet had won.

[mighty maron]

Email Wally at the Greek. Be polite and state your case. Include that Bookmaker offered the same wager and it was honored so that obvious line error could not be used as an excuse.

Good luck

[Johnny 55]

wrongturn- i think you are confusing the issue, to me the issue does not extend beyond this simple question: if a book writes a ticket they have to have a valid reason to cancel that ticket, i.e. obvious line error, play is 80 cents away from other books, it is plus 7 when it should be -7, if books can cancel tickets that they write without any valid reason for doing so than it sets a precedent and we all are left holding our willies in the wind, so to speak,

[ShippingIt]

It is troubling when A rated books start canceling wagers over "bad" lines, especially when it comes to prop betting. A lot of these lines makers are all over the place on their props, I'm sure these guys thought Cantor was from UK (failing to do proper research that he never suited up at UK) then said "Oh sh*t" that's a bad line....Could this have been voided? (and at which book or does the outcome matter) Ex. BM-Big East O2.5 +150 5D-Big East O2 -750 Should I assume one of these line is "bad" or is it "value" or am I "taking a shot"? (BM graded O2.5 correctly not sure about God Tony) If lines aren't inverted or an extra # added I think they should be graded accordingly. If they are going to void plays they should defiantly be before the end of event (don't think we ever got confirmation of what time email hit OP's junk mail). I also have screen grabs of bookmaker's grading of SEC prop if it helps OP's case with the Greek.

[Raleigh77]

Just to fill in the facts for everyone. I placed the bet at around 11 AM EST, I am not sure of the exact time because the Greek does not show any record of my bet in my bet or transaction history.

I proceeded to leave for work and got back home in the middle of the draft, at the end of the first round I checked my Greek account to see my winnings and saw there was no trace of my bet, I then checked my phone, no messages and no emails, I then logged on to my email and saw their email in my junk folder which is why it did not pop up on my phone. It was sent at 1 PM, six hours before the draft started.

I have emailed Wally, the contact from the Greek and we have had several exchanges back and forth, he seems like a nice enough guy although I still fail to see how you can just cancel a bet.

The email said- Your wager on the above prop has been cancelled as it should have been 2 players and not 3.

Now, from previous posts we know for a fact that at least 3 other books had the bet at 3 and one had it at 3.5, all these books honored the bets and payed their players who won the bet.

Lou emailed me and said he thought I was reaching and that if the Greek cancelled my wager 6 hours before the draft started how could I expect them to honor the bet.

I understand and respect this viewpoint, the cynical might say I could have "free-rolled" the Greek due to the situation.

My position is simply this and this is what I wrote Lou: On what factual/evidentiary basis are they allowed to cancel my bet? Everything after that fact doesnt mean anything to me, The Greek cancelled my bet for no good reason. How are they allowed to get away with this? If an A rated book can cancel a bet when other books had the same line up and honored their bets, what kind of precedent is this setting for other players? I just want some kind of factual justification that cancelling my bet was an "obvious" line error, short of that, I dont see how I am not owed $720 for winning my bet.

[SBR Lou]

The player's wager was canceled six hours before the draft began. He was sent an email informing him that it was canceled at that time.

It looks like it was a questionable cancellation if the market price for his prop was in fact at 3, but nevertheless, the player is requesting to be credited for a win when he had six hours to choose to re-bet. It's unfortunate if it were a lines manager falling asleep at the wheel, but should the player be credited a win after the outcome was known when he didn't have action at the time it began?

Would he be writing if his wager lost? If Greek should credit folks that didn't have action, should they also debit losses from players who were on the other side after none of the players had action six hours prior to the event? It's a crappy situation, but I believe the answer to the previous two questions is 'no'.

[BackDoorCover]

I'm sure these guys thought Cantor was from UK (failing to do proper research that he never suited up at UK) then said "Oh sh*t" that's a bad line....

Looks like to me that is EXACTLY what happened. Line was set with Kanter assumed to be an SEC player. When the Greek realized he was not, they realized the line was bad and voided the wager. The line WAS bad without Kanter counting as an SEC player (no way 4 SEC players were gonna get drafted first round which is what it would take to lose the bet), but I don't think it was so far off that the wager should be voided.

Nevertheless, the Greek did void the wager and sent an email to the OP before the draft started. Irrelevant to me whether or not the email went to the spam folder or not. THAT's the big problem now, the Greek cancelled the wager well before the event started, and notified the wagerer. Now that the bet has won, its hard to demand the Greek now grade the original wager as a winner. I think they SHOULD as a good faith gesture, and to keep the Greek's top notch reputation, but I don't think that its fair to demand that of them.

[ShippingIt]

The player's wager was canceled six hours before the draft began. He was sent an email informing him that it was canceled at that time.

It looks like it was a questionable cancellation if the market price for his prop was in fact at 3, but nevertheless, the player is requesting to be credited for a win when he had six hours to choose to re-bet. It's unfortunate if it were a lines manager falling asleep at the wheel, but should the player be credited a win after the outcome was known when he didn't have action at the time it began?

Would he be writing if his wager lost? If Greek should credit folks that didn't have action, should they also debit losses from players who were on the other side after none of the players had action six hours prior to the event? It's a crappy situation, but I believe the answer to the previous two questions is 'no'.

Did the Greek "correct" this line and put it back out at 2? I don't recall ever seeing them put any of the conference props back up there. Can't really fault the book on this one as 6 hours is plenty of notice to re-bet. I see OP's stance but he should be happy if he's even offered a free play.

[sharpcat]

The player's wager was canceled six hours before the draft began. He was sent an email informing him that it was canceled at that time.

It looks like it was a questionable cancellation if the market price for his prop was in fact at 3, but nevertheless, the player is requesting to be credited for a win when he had six hours to choose to re-bet. It's unfortunate if it were a lines manager falling asleep at the wheel, but should the player be credited a win after the outcome was known when he didn't have action at the time it began?

Would he be writing if his wager lost? If Greek should credit folks that didn't have action, should they also debit losses from players who were on the other side after none of the players had action six hours prior to the event? It's a crappy situation, but I believe the answer to the previous two questions is 'no'.

This is B.S. Lou.

They copied the line from Bookmaker and Bookmaker graded it a win.

I know you have to protect your sponsors but this is awful and this decision reflects on the entire industry not just your precious sponsor books.

At least give us an explanation of why the line was bad and how they mistakenly came up with O/U 3.

[iQon]

It's bullshit. Draft props were practically a dead market until the day of, and that's when the commotion around Enes Kanter came about. Will he count as a International player, or college?

The more people "confirmed" he would be graded as an international, the more lines he affected, got hit.

That's when books finally adjusted lines on --- how many international players... college... and SEC players will be drafted?

Win or lose, I think Greek should be obligated to let the ticket ride out. They hung the line. Something tells me they only cancelled the bet because they realized the player had virtually no chance at losing.

[SBR Lou]

I know you have to protect your sponsors but this is awful and this decision reflects on the entire industry not just your precious sponsor books. At least give us an explanation of why the line was bad and how they mistakenly came up with O/U 3.

I don't think a lines manager screwing something up reflects on the state of the entire industry - let's not overstate it. There's no "protection" here -- if a sportsbook falls asleep at the wheel, the industry standard dictates that this is not a "bad line" situation, and players can't have wagers canceled after a game begins. Had this been canceled 5 minutes prior to event time, the player's argument is obviously different.

What do you think the fair remedy is? The bet was ultimately canceled with a notice sent to him six hours prior to the event beginning. The player says the email went to his junk mail folder and that he didn't realize the bet was scratched, we totally understand why he's upset but can't in good conscious recommend his bet be reinstated after he didn't have action on the wager. Perhaps The Greek would consider a freeplay as a good faith gesture to those that had their bets canceled who didn't realize it in the six hour period.

[Raleigh77]

Just to clarify a few things. When I placed the bet, there was another prop bet offered on the over/under of international players drafted in the first round, right above the bet, clearly stated by the Greek in bold lettering was that they considered Enos Kanter to be an international player and that ESPN was the medium they were using to grade the wager and ESPN had him listed as an international player. This was the first bet on the board and this statement by the Greek was above it so it was clear that all the other props were going by the fact that Kanter was considered an international player so the poster BackDoorCover while well intentioned is actually way off base here.

Lou- Just a simple question for you which you continue to fail to answer. Why are they allowed to cancel this wager in the first place? On what grounds is this allowed and not considered outright cheating? I and others on this forum have offered evidence that the line was not an obvious error and done so from many different angles, the most notable being that other books hung the same number and payed out bets that won at the same number.

When the bet was cancelled has no relevance to the discussion, what does have relevance is why it was cancelled, on what grounds, what evidence. If I would have found out they cancelled the bet before the draft started I would have fought them to reinstate the bet, win or lose because books simply should not be allowed to get away with this. This was not an obvious bad line so please someone tell me why they can cancel this wager and screw me over.

[sharpcat]

Just because a book cancels a wager before the event takes place it does not make it aceptable Lou.

If I get word of a key injury in an event and bet the line before the books react to the new info does that also justify a book canceling my wager as long as it is before the event?

[sharpcat]

Only reason a book should be able to claim bad line should be computer entry errors. This was no error as other books were offering 3.5.

[LegitBet]

Two very good sides to this, that have been flushed out nicely by Raliegh and Lou.
Raliegh's point actually overrides Lou's very well worded position that 6hrs where involved.
This is a case where the bettor may very well have had a notion he was freerolling, BUT his 'freeroll' was created entirely by the actions of The Greek.
The Greek poisoned this tree by proactivly canceling his wager w/o valid cause, therefore everything after that is really moot.
Lou, just because one can look at this case from your position, and understand perfectly your valid point, doesn't negate nor entirely mitigate the facts.

Both positions are right, however Raliegh's is more right.

[tomcowley]

Just because a book cancels a wager before the event takes place it does not make it aceptable Lou.

Jesus Christ. I'm actually agreeing with sharpcat.

This is entirely the book's fault. THEY made an obviously unjustified cancellation (the line was on market) which results in the player potentially getting a freeroll. If the book doesn't want this to happen, it shouldn't make unjustified cancellations. Finding for the book here is a complete joke.

[parlayin]

Lou- Just a simple question for you which you continue to fail to answer. Why are they allowed to cancel this wager in the first place?

Ultimately, this is what this dispute comes down to. Yes we know they sent an email 6 hours before the draft started. But if the reason for cancelling the bet isn't valid, who cares how much notice the book gives the player? It's not a matter of having enough time to "re-bet" as Lou contends if the original bet should be honored.

What's the rationale for cancelling the bet when other books have clearly honored the same exact bet?

[Dr.Gonzo]

So a book can now cancel any bet they wish as long as they give prior notice?

Get real Lou that is a disgraceful decision.

[Halifax]

I think the last few posts are focusing on the most important point in this case, which is whether or not the bet was a "bad line". If it wasn't a "bad line", then Olympic should not have been able to unilaterally cancel the wager, even if they did give 6 hours notice. The bet should stand, unless it can reasonably be considered to be a "bad line".

[Stallion]

If The Greek offered the bet, and the was bet won, it should be paid. There was no bad line or any other BS rule here, the bet was won and The Greek should pay.

[mtneer1212]

I'm missing something here: isn't the bet a push at 3 anyway?

[Counterfeit Cash]

I'm missing something here: isn't the bet a push at 3 anyway?

yes, but the play went under 3 (2)

you paying attention?

[vitalyo]

If the line on Gators move from -5 to -6,5 . Does the book have the right to cancel your bet ? No .

[sharpcat]

........

[sharpcat]

Lou,

Why was the wager considered a bad line?

A) Recently updated news that affected the price of the wager?
B) Odds maker misjudged the outcome of the event?
C) Accidental key stroke resulting in a grossly mis-priced wager?

Any answer besides "C" does not justify a "bad line"

As TC stated the Greek getting free rolled here is nobodies fault but their own as they should not have canceled the wager in the first place.

[sharpcircle]

the book is in the wrong.

[THEGREAT30]

I only play at Betjamaica right now and they have been my major book for 5+ years but this is not good. We can not just cancel bets when we get ready because we think we got a bad line and they should not be able to do it either. They can always twist the meaning of a bad line to fit them and that is just unfair. Saying they gave you 6 hours is bogus because if Lebron James and Wade both get scratched 1 hour before gametime against the Twolves when the line was -800 they are going to cancel those bets and give you less than a hour.

[HoulihansTX]

Only solution is to bet in Vegas.

But of course Vegas books dont offer exotic props on this scale.

[BrigadierPudding]

So it's perfectly acceptable to claim a bad line because of incompetent bookmaking?

I bet a Kemba Walker prop at 5Dimes on Monday. The prop was Kemba Walker not taken in the first 6 picks (+130). It was an obvious terrible number done with little to no research. Just sheer incompetence on their part. Even a cursory glance at the latest draft columns would tell you Walker was slipping way past 6. The prop ended up closing at -190 or thereabouts. I'm half expecting it to be voided.

[Monte]

What bothers me is that they do this with a $300 bet, a peanuts amount for them and still they go ahead and cancel a bet that was placed on a fair price at that point.

In a perfect world SBR would ask them some troublesome questions now, cos this is not what a top book should do.
How do you know they won't cancel bets for bigger amounts on line movements they don't like, without us ever knowing.
Clueless whales might even accept such decisions, you cannot trust those books not even the Greek. Pretty sad.

[Chuck Sims]

Remember when The Greek cancelled the formula I prop bets? That was as crooked as they come. All bets were action according to The Greek. That was until after the race when The Greek didn't like the results. All bets were voided.

[lumpy19]

Remember when The Greek cancelled the formula I prop bets? That was as crooked as they come. All bets were action according to The Greek. That was until after the race when The Greek didn't like the results. All bets were voided.

The Greek also changed the grading source during the NFL draft last year.....here's the thread about that

http://forum.sbrforum.com/sportsbooks-industry/448583-shady-move-greek-nfl-draft-props.html

[sharpcat]

Funny how Justin7 always runs away from these threads when SBR mugs a player for a sponsor book