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  • Dark Horse
    SBR Posting Legend
    • 12-14-05
    • 13764

    #176
    Originally posted by Frank
    Either way smashing an opponent while touching gloves is totally frowned upon and thought of as unsportsmanlike.

    The same could be said as taking a shot at a book or a book taking a shot at a player.

    All are cheap shots.
    Most of us here understand the problem with shot taking. It has come up many times over the years.

    But this is not about shot taking. Unless it was at CRIS, assuming they hung the opening line. This is about the stupidity of books that follow blindly.

    If I say 'I bet you the sky is red', and you can clearly see it is blue, I have a problem. But wait. Not to despair. According to the rules the offshore books have so conveniently created for themselves, I have a way out. 'Err, I meant to say blue.' Case closed. Nothing you can do about it.

    That is the widely accepted standard, allowing for human error, and I'm not here to dispute it.

    But if 100 fools repeat after me 'I bet you the sky is red', and you bet it is blue with every one of them, they can't say 'See the other guy over there? He meant to say blue.'

    Now you have every right to point out that you don't give a f*ck what the other guy said, and that a book can't hide behind somebody else's opinion or error. And you would be right. Why? Because it may be another human error to rely on somebody's opinion without checking it, but that (widespread) tendency is a far different mistake than a misplaced decimal point. If we can't hold people accountable for their actions, because they can argue that somebody else gave them the idea, we may as well get rid of the entire justice system. Please do invite me to the jury when a lawyer in the US is stupid enough to try to make such a case.

    Shot taking is measured against the rest of the market, in every case I've seen. It is not measured against what the line in theory should have been. If the entire market offers one price, there is no shot taking. In such a case the player would be wise to assume the books know something that he has overlooked.
    Comment
    • OSUCOWBOYS
      SBR High Roller
      • 10-26-07
      • 241

      #177
      If CRIS can cancel all others should be able as well. Either they all have to stand or they all have to go IMO. CRIS should get no free pass just because they are the originators.
      Comment
      • yisman
        SBR Aristocracy
        • 09-01-08
        • 75682

        #178
        CRIS honored the bets. Some of the copiers didn't.

        And good post, DH.
        [quote=jjgold;5683305]I win again like usual
        [/quote]

        [quote=Whippit;7921056]miami won't lose a single eastern conference game through end of season[/quote]
        Comment
        • Frank
          SBR Wise Guy
          • 10-13-07
          • 918

          #179
          Originally posted by Dark Horse
          Most of us here understand the problem with shot taking. It has come up many times over the years.

          But this is not about shot taking. Unless it was at CRIS, assuming they hung the opening line. This is about the stupidity of books that follow blindly.

          If I say 'I bet you the sky is red', and you can clearly see it is blue, I have a problem. But wait. Not to despair. According to the rules the offshore books have so conveniently created for themselves, I have a way out. 'Err, I meant to say blue.' Case closed. Nothing you can do about it.

          That is the widely accepted standard, allowing for human error, and I'm not here to dispute it.

          But if 100 fools repeat after me 'I bet you the sky is red', and you bet it is blue with every one of them, they can't say 'See the other guy over there? He meant to say blue.'

          Now you have every right to point out that you don't give a f*ck what the other guy said, and that a book can't hide behind somebody else's opinion or error. And you would be right. Why? Because it may be another human error to rely on somebody's opinion without checking it, but that (widespread) tendency is a far different mistake than a misplaced decimal point. If we can't hold people accountable for their actions, because they can argue that somebody else gave them the idea, we may as well get rid of the entire justice system. Please do invite me to the jury when a lawyer in the US is stupid enough to try to make such a case.

          Shot taking is measured against the rest of the market, in every case I've seen. It is not measured against what the line in theory should have been. If the entire market offers one price, there is no shot taking. In such a case the player would be wise to assume the books know something that he has overlooked.
          It really doesn't matter if you or I or Justin or any other poster thinks a shot was taken. Its all about perception and I'm sure most all books and bookies feel like that a shot was taken even if the player didn't knowingly do it.

          Complaining to a book, when betting into a bad line, just because you feel you could make a case makes you look like a shot taker or to a lesser degree, makes you look like the guy who shoots angles into any gray area they can find.

          Books really don't really want to deal with players like that and the result eventually is delays, limit cuts, getting booted, role reversed or even outright stiffed.

          All of which are going to hurt your bottom line long term.

          If you are a pro and in the game for the long run, taking shots and angle shooting any gray area you can get your hands on, is going to get you labeled and that is the worst thing you can do.

          If you got all the tools, what you need are outs, as many as you can get.

          Alienating your outs to make quick short term scores is not wise.

          The books don't need you and if you got no outs, your out of the game.
          Comment
          • MonkeyF0cker
            SBR Posting Legend
            • 06-12-07
            • 12144

            #180
            Originally posted by sharpcat
            Why are bookies exempt from paying the price when they drop their guard?
            Because you allow them to by playing there. Don't like it? Don't give them action. It's as simple as that.

            I'm no fan of allowing books to void wagers. However, there really is no difference to me between fat-fingering a bad line and copying a bad line. If you're going to concede that the books that you play at can void bad lines, then there is no argument here. It was a bad line - no matter where its source originated.
            Comment
            • Dark Horse
              SBR Posting Legend
              • 12-14-05
              • 13764

              #181
              Agree that it's all about perception, Frank. You got it a little mixed up though. Books do need players, and would be out of business without them. And books that have forgotten that have lost sight of reality. As far as I'm concerned, long term business relationships are based on equal footing; not on one party dominating the other.
              Comment
              • Dr.Gonzo
                SBR MVP
                • 12-05-09
                • 4660

                #182
                Frank

                You've were originally arguing it was a legitimate move to cancel bets as a bad line. Now you say it would be a wise move not make a play the book will consider as taking a shot to last longer.

                I agree with your logic but what bearing does that have to answer the question; was it within the right of these books to cancel these bets? I would say zero.
                Comment
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