Tackleberry vs. 5Dimes

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  • Bill Dozer
    www.twitter.com/BillDozer
    • 07-12-05
    • 10894

    #1
    Tackleberry vs. 5Dimes
    5Dimes made a series of mistakes in their casino this week. They don't argue against the criticism and that they need to take better care of the casino product. If not for the lack of safeguards, which they believe are addressed now, these disputes wouldn't have happened. That includes a 2nd player who won 3x the amount playing this same game.

    The book's mistakes aside, we (all of us) have to look at the facts independently when forming an opinion on if the player may have been wronged. There wasn't much to argue on the player's behalf. As Tackle says, he deposited $50 after years of inactivity and learning the payout was in the neighborhood of 390%. He bet small to start and built up exponentially to be sure he could only advance his roll and brought the balance to over $30,000 in two hours. Whether you argue the player was smart and advantageous or a shot taker... or the casino was at fault for setting it up this way, the question is what should happen in an obvious mistake?

    This casino issue closest resembles a bad line with an extra zero or maybe more so a line left up well into the game. It was an obvious gross error. Except in this case, there was no funds at risk or chance of losing. You could play this game by just hitting deal and win. It was closer to an ATM than a game of chance. Outside of the argument that a book should pay for its mistakes, there is nothing that suggest the player risked, earned, or won money playing this game.

    The free-play the player received was in line with what a player might get for reporting a book's mistake. The player's activity when he was last active included 5 past-posted horse bets that he conceded to. While not relevant to the complaint itself, it likely had a part in what kind of inconvenience bonus the player received in the final chat with 5dimes.
  • mighty maron
    SBR MVP
    • 04-20-09
    • 4215

    #2
    What about the inconsistencies in the two casino cases today? In the 7k one where the player was not given a refund because he was a winning player...tony says the the whole world is up for negotiation. His position in that one was more tenuous than this 32k one. Here he says there is no negotiation. Was there any arbitration in this case or was it just tony and 5 dimes dictating terms and this is the way it is?
    Comment
    • TexansFan
      SBR MVP
      • 09-06-06
      • 3365

      #3
      So what should the other player receive?
      Comment
      • chase hardy
        SBR MVP
        • 01-07-10
        • 1324

        #4
        Well I think the player should still be paid something. I have had poker machines that malfunction before, I still paid my players. It bs and fk tony.
        Comment
        • OSUCOWBOYS
          SBR High Roller
          • 10-26-07
          • 241

          #5
          Brutal. Actually, beyond brutal.
          Comment
          • Dark Horse
            SBR Posting Legend
            • 12-14-05
            • 13764

            #6
            Right decision, and I argued the same. But... I don't think it addresses the poor casino security at 5D. They should lose the +, to be regained only after the casino plugs the holes. I can't speak for SBR, but I do feel that is how the 'old' SBR would have dealt with these repeating errors.
            Comment
            • robzilla
              SBR MVP
              • 10-25-07
              • 3556

              #7
              A bad line and a casino game not working properly are not even close to the samething.
              Comment
              • Birre
                SBR High Roller
                • 08-12-10
                • 225

                #8
                Even sportsbetting, that isn't an A+ book, paid 10k to a player because he revealed a software error due to his high winnings.

                In this case it isn't a software error but incompetence, in business incompetence is punished by financial losses.


                I'm not surprised by this, SBR's earnings are maybe decreasing due to the recent events and they can't afford losing 5D paychecks, who knows.
                Comment
                • roanildinho
                  SBR MVP
                  • 06-02-10
                  • 1320

                  #9
                  i agree this is bs
                  Comment
                  • Roy Halladay
                    SBR MVP
                    • 09-27-10
                    • 1074

                    #10
                    Comment
                    • KGambler
                      SBR MVP
                      • 07-09-09
                      • 2404

                      #11
                      I actually agree with DarkHorse (to a large extent anyway).

                      I usually never agree with DH, and DH does seem to side with the book in basically all circumstances. But I do agree with him here. I am not sure most people understand just how easy it was to beat this particular payout table. There was no way to lose. The machine was set up as an ATM (with an unlimited supply of money and no withdrawal limits).

                      If he started off playing 25 cents a spin, he would be winning about $400 an hour, and that is a very conservative estimate based upon leisurely play. Of course, as soon as he won a few hundred dollars he could just switch to playing $25 a spin and then expect to win $40K+ per hour. Come on guys, you can't expect 5Dimes to pay out 100% of their losses in this particular circumstance. Anyone could easily win $1M per day on this machine, with no risk of losing.

                      I am still disappointed in the resolution though. First of all, 5Dimes should have given the guy something on the order of $5K for finding this mistake on their part. Also, at this point 5Dimes needs at least a slight downgrade. They have made too many mistakes in their bonus casino, and their outright refusal to agree to mediation was not the action of an A+ book.
                      Comment
                      • thegreen
                        SBR High Roller
                        • 02-15-09
                        • 199

                        #12
                        with 5dimes admitting that the have +EV games from other disputes this is decision is total BS..If he lost he would not of been given a refund. the fact that SBR admin posts that the player placed 5 past post time horse bets is ridiculousness and has no bearings on this issue at all except to make Tackle look bad....Past post horse bets can happen to anyone as post times vary and are reported wrong many times...Joke!!! SBR is an advocate for the books that pay the each month not the players that get ROBBED!!!! 5dimes best still get downgraded to save a little SBR face....
                        Comment
                        • Br0nxer
                          SBR Posting Legend
                          • 03-25-11
                          • 13665

                          #13
                          so what did he get.

                          a free play?
                          Comment
                          • thegreen
                            SBR High Roller
                            • 02-15-09
                            • 199

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Br0nxer
                            so what did he get.

                            a free play?

                            yup...with 17.5X rollover on winnings...Total Theft Job!!!!
                            Comment
                            • PAPAGUNNZ
                              Restricted User
                              • 03-14-11
                              • 52

                              #15
                              this decision and review deserves and "F"...and no a bad line is totally different then this situation...poor job on sbr's behalf...damn i hope i never need their help
                              Comment
                              • Br0nxer
                                SBR Posting Legend
                                • 03-25-11
                                • 13665

                                #16
                                Originally posted by thegreen
                                yup...with 17.5X rollover on winnings...Total Theft Job!!!!
                                Comment
                                • WVU
                                  SBR Sharp
                                  • 02-01-08
                                  • 417

                                  #17
                                  $320 free play is a slap in the face. I wouldn't have taken that. I would rather tell them to shove it
                                  Comment
                                  • clowncar
                                    SBR High Roller
                                    • 09-25-08
                                    • 227

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by KGambler
                                    I actually agree with DarkHorse (to a large extent anyway).

                                    I usually never agree with DH, and DH does seem to side with the book in basically all circumstances. But I do agree with him here. I am not sure most people understand just how easy it was to beat this particular payout table. There was no way to lose. The machine was set up as an ATM (with an unlimited supply of money and no withdrawal limits).

                                    If he started off playing 25 cents a spin, he would be winning about $400 an hour, and that is a very conservative estimate based upon leisurely play. Of course, as soon as he won a few hundred dollars he could just switch to playing $25 a spin and then expect to win $40K+ per hour. Come on guys, you can't expect 5Dimes to pay out 100% of their losses in this particular circumstance. Anyone could easily win $1M per day on this machine, with no risk of losing.

                                    I am still disappointed in the resolution though. First of all, 5Dimes should have given the guy something on the order of $5K for finding this mistake on their part. Also, at this point 5Dimes needs at least a slight downgrade. They have made too many mistakes in their bonus casino, and their outright refusal to agree to mediation was not the action of an A+ book.

                                    I agree with you and dark horse except i believe the two players should be paid a significant sum of money. Larger than 5k. But you are right, it was an ATM.

                                    More on the order of 32k for tackleberry and i would have to think longer for the guy who won 3 times as much.
                                    Comment
                                    • The Bet Master
                                      SBR MVP
                                      • 09-29-10
                                      • 2665

                                      #19
                                      Even LeBron is laughing at this decision.
                                      Comment
                                      • BET THE HOOK
                                        SBR MVP
                                        • 02-16-09
                                        • 1947

                                        #20
                                        That is a total mugging if you ask me.
                                        Comment
                                        • Dark Horse
                                          SBR Posting Legend
                                          • 12-14-05
                                          • 13764

                                          #21
                                          KG, check the ol' sexygamblerchick thread. I side with the books more these days because many of these disputes border on absurd. Wasn't always like that.

                                          Did anybody ask Tackleberry if he went back to 5D only after he read in the previous dispute that their casino was full of holes? Why would I side with a shot taker searching for a casino error? Doesn't mean I side with 5D. I would blast their casino incompetence just as much. Stalemate. Except that Tony, while guilty of a clear error, acted in good faith, and Tackleberry did not. In my opinion, of course.
                                          Comment
                                          • shari91
                                            BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                            • 02-23-10
                                            • 32661

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by Dark Horse
                                            KG, check the ol' sexygamblerchick Did anybody ask Tackleberry if he went back to 5D only after he read in the previous dispute that their casino was full of holes?
                                            A total assumption on my part but from reading this in Bill's post above:

                                            "he deposited $50 after years of inactivity and learning the payout was in the neighborhood of 390%"

                                            "The player's activity when he was last active included 5 past-posted horse bets that he conceded to."

                                            I would think the answer may be yes.
                                            Comment
                                            • NobodyUKnow
                                              SBR Rookie
                                              • 05-17-11
                                              • 46

                                              #23
                                              I've been lurking here for quite a while and pouring through all the past disputes for several months, but this one really baffles me and seems to indicate truly a sponsor-bias. 5D refuses arbitration and their own incompetence and it's just "too bad?" ?

                                              There's no way a sportsbook with the horrid customer service attitude from Tossin' Salad Tony should ever be considered A+ when there are examples after examples of his terrible attitude and arrogance causing players to have to fight to get paid, and now these casino fiascos where I don't see any remorse for his stupidity nor consequence. Sure Tony will keep screwing up his pay tables in the casino with the exotic games he supposedly designed and input the payouts for, and then when he gets burned, no worries, no payout. What kind of "business" is that? Anything goes because it's offshore gambling I suppose?

                                              What disturbs me in this case is that according to SBR "though it's not relevant," the player allegedly admits to 5 past-post bets on horses years ago. You're right, it IS totally irrelevant to this dispute so why was it even mentioned by SBR? To provide more cover for their decision and deflect heat rightfully pointed at Tony/5D because they are a sponsor? That's the only reason I can think of.

                                              I don't see paying the player all 32K, but at least 5k-10K would be appropriate and show that 5D/Tony understands there are financial consequences to carelessness and stupidity, just like players have to deal with making really dumb bets and losing. To freeroll the guy 1% is a total joke and so is this non-arbitration decision and attempt at the end of the posted decision to question his past betting. That tactic looked bad when EZ tried it with cory1111 and Justin7 wisely said it wasn't proven and didn't matter anyway. Here, it's brought up for what reason exactly as it has nothing to do with the rip-off? Yeah, the guy hit a game knowing that it was stupidly programmed by an arrogant goof so no, u don't get 32K, but it's not the player's job to figure out if the sportsbook/casino is as dumb as you think they are or if there is a reason behind why they setup a game the way they did in their casino, especially when it's 5D.

                                              Totally disagree with this and really think 5D is far from being an A+ company overall, regardless of whether you consider the sportsbook side totally separate from the casino side. It's obvious who runs it all and that's Tony. It's also obvious that if sports gambling was legal in the USA that 5Dimes would cease to exist in about 6 months.
                                              Comment
                                              • WVU
                                                SBR Sharp
                                                • 02-01-08
                                                • 417

                                                #24
                                                Taking potshots at this player doesn't do SBR any favors. This was Tony's messup. He created it entirely by himself
                                                Comment
                                                • iceminers26
                                                  SBR Posting Legend
                                                  • 10-13-08
                                                  • 15600

                                                  #25
                                                  A flat out joke, all I'm going to say on the matter. SBR should be ashamed with their ruling, can't say I'm the least bit shocked though with the way they ruled.
                                                  Comment
                                                  • shari91
                                                    BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                                    • 02-23-10
                                                    • 32661

                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by WVU
                                                    Taking potshots at this player doesn't do SBR any favors. This was Tony's messup. He created it entirely by himself
                                                    I don't see where any potshots have been taken. Bill provided an explanation as to why Tony's agreed upon bonus may have been what it is.
                                                    Comment
                                                    • WVU
                                                      SBR Sharp
                                                      • 02-01-08
                                                      • 417

                                                      #27
                                                      just the way it looks from here Shari.
                                                      Comment
                                                      • shari91
                                                        BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                                        • 02-23-10
                                                        • 32661

                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by WVU
                                                        just the way it looks from here Shari.
                                                        Fair enough

                                                        I interpreted it as Bill saying there is a history between the player and the book that may have had an outcome on the payout Tackleberry received. Not sure. I'm often wrong when I read things so I could be mistaken.

                                                        I will say though that if Bill is correct as to Tackle's admitted past-posting of bets maybe having a bearing on the payout, I can understand that more than those posters who were/are adamant that because Cory allegedly charge backed at other books, EasyStreet is right to not pay him a cent because he's a "scammer". At least Tackleberry and 5Dimes have a personal history, whatever it may be. EasyStreet and Cory had no issues before his case arose.

                                                        Again, just my personal opinion as a bystander.
                                                        Comment
                                                        • PAPAGUNNZ
                                                          Restricted User
                                                          • 03-14-11
                                                          • 52

                                                          #29
                                                          SBR needs a "joke of the day" forum....which is where this thread should be moved to
                                                          Comment
                                                          • wrongturn
                                                            SBR MVP
                                                            • 06-06-06
                                                            • 2228

                                                            #30
                                                            I think Easystreet deserves an upgrade now.
                                                            Comment
                                                            • mtneer1212
                                                              SBR MVP
                                                              • 06-22-08
                                                              • 4993

                                                              #31
                                                              Why is it that every player who has one of these beefs has a sketchy history of past-postings or chargebacks or bonus-whoring or something else that is not on the up and up.....?
                                                              Comment
                                                              • WVU
                                                                SBR Sharp
                                                                • 02-01-08
                                                                • 417

                                                                #32
                                                                Originally posted by mtneer1212
                                                                Why is it that every player who has one of these beefs has a sketchy history of past-postings or chargebacks or bonus-whoring or something else that is not on the up and up.....?

                                                                and why do these places continue to take their action despite this until they happen to win big?
                                                                Comment
                                                                • ArunSh
                                                                  SBR Hall of Famer
                                                                  • 09-24-07
                                                                  • 6801

                                                                  #33
                                                                  I agree, this "I am God" attitude along with the "there will be no arbitration" stance is troubling for an A+ book. Personally ratings aside, it really makes one wonder why they should risk their $ there when there are so many other books.
                                                                  Comment
                                                                  • senseionline
                                                                    SBR MVP
                                                                    • 08-20-10
                                                                    • 1819

                                                                    #34
                                                                    17.5 x on freeplay? looks like 5 dimes dont want give anything to him
                                                                    Comment
                                                                    • mtneer1212
                                                                      SBR MVP
                                                                      • 06-22-08
                                                                      • 4993

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Originally posted by WVU
                                                                      and why do these places continue to take their action despite this until they happen to win big?
                                                                      Excellent question.
                                                                      Comment
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