online gambling legality, does anyone have a link?

[bubba]

a link to a govt site that states what the law is in the united states? in the state of new york? im looking for a link to a reliable site that states online gambling is legal or illegal (for the gambler).

im told by many that this is not illegal, its not illegal to place bets online. is this documented anywhere? is it documented anywhere that it is?

ty

[durito]

lol

there is no definitive law stating anything

[Hareeba!]

lol

there is no definitive law stating anything

if something is illegal there has to be a law stating as much or there would be no way for you to be prosecuted

anything else must be legal

[durito]

if something is illegal there has to be a law stating as much or there would be no way for you to be prosecuted

anything else must be legal

In what country?

Law's are usually open to vast interpretation, especially poorly constructed ones.

Many US laws are a monstrosity of bull shit on top of more bull shit. Bookmakers have been prosecuted for taking bets outside the USA through the internet on the basis of a law written decades before the internet existed. The new UIGEA banking regulations are a mess open to many possible interpretations.

[bubba]

lol

there is no definitive law stating anything

do you have a link from a source (gov't or something else to be trusted with near certainty) stating that there is no definitive law?

[Hareeba!]

In what country?

Law's are usually open to vast interpretation, especially poorly constructed ones.

Many US laws are a monstrosity of bull shit on top of more bull shit. Bookmakers have been prosecuted for taking bets outside the USA through the internet on the basis of a law written decades before the internet existed. The new UIGEA banking regulations are a mess open to many possible interpretations.

Yes the law is complex
That's why lawyers make so much money
But in any reasonably civilised and democratic country you can't be successfully prosecuted unless there is a law on their statute books which you have allegedly contravened.

Or has the US descended so far that that is no longer true?

[jizay]

do you have a link from a source (gov't or something else to be trusted with near certainty) stating that there is no definitive law?

I'll let you get your own link, but look at the wire act. It prevents gambling at distance by telephone. Was written before internet gambling existed, but various statements have suggested that using offshore books could be prosecuted under this law. I'm not sure anyone has been prosecuted, though. You're not going to get popped for gambling, just tax evasion imo.

[bubba]

I'll let you get your own link, but look at the wire act. It prevents gambling at distance by telephone. Was written before internet gambling existed, but various statements have suggested that using offshore books could be prosecuted under this law. I'm not sure anyone has been prosecuted, though. You're not going to get popped for gambling, just tax evasion imo.

i pay my taxes. thats no worry but it would be nice to know what the law actually is. has anyone been prosecuted under the wire act for betting by phone? or did that just go after bookmakers?

[durito]

do you have a link from a source (gov't or something else to be trusted with near certainty) stating that there is no definitive law?

No, there is nothing.

Read the wire act, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Wire_Act

and decide for yourself. The US federal government has never prosecuted anyone for gambling only booking, doesn't meant that can't change. They do whatever they want.

[durito]

Yes the law is complex
That's why lawyers make so much money
But in any reasonably civilised and democratic country you can't be successfully prosecuted unless there is a law on their statute books which you have allegedly contravened.

Or has the US descended so far that that is no longer true?

We lock up people in other countries without access to any sort of courts, I'm pretty the US gov't does whatever if wants without regard for any laws.

Like I said they've convicted online bookmakers with the wire act of 1961. There was a trial, but juries are stupid, you can get ****** regardless if a law actually exists or not.

[durito]

Wire Act:

-CITE-
18 USC CHAPTER 50 - GAMBLING 02/01/2010

-EXPCITE-
TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES
CHAPTER 50 - GAMBLING

-HEAD-
CHAPTER 50 - GAMBLING

-MISC1-
Sec.
1081. Definitions.
1082. Gambling ships.
1083. Transportation between shore and ship; penalties.
1084. Transmission of wagering information; penalties.

HISTORICAL AND REVISION NOTES
This section [section 23 of act May 24, 1949] inserts a new
chapter 50 (secs. 1081-1083) in title 18, U.S.C., incorporating,
with slight changes in phraseology, most of the provisions of act
of April 27, 1948 (ch. 235, 62 Stat. 200), which was not
incorporated in title 18 when the revision was enacted. Subsection
(e) of section 1 of such act, defining "United States", when used
in a geographical sense, was omitted as covered by section 5 of
such title 18. Section 4 of such act, which provided that nothing
in such act "shall be held to take away or impair the jurisdiction
of the courts of the several States under the laws thereof, or to
preclude action, otherwise valid, by any State or Territory with
respect to the navigable waters within the boundaries of such State
or Territory", was omitted as surplusage and unnecessary.

AMENDMENTS
1961 - Pub. L. 87-216, Sec. 3, Sept. 13, 1961, 75 Stat. 491,
added item 1084.
1949 - Act May 24, 1949, ch. 139, Sec. 23, 63 Stat. 92, added
chapter 50 and items 1081 to 1083.

-End-



-CITE-
18 USC Sec. 1081 02/01/2010

-EXPCITE-
TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES
CHAPTER 50 - GAMBLING

-HEAD-
Sec. 1081. Definitions

-STATUTE-
As used in this chapter:
The term "gambling ship" means a vessel used principally for the
operation of one or more gambling establishments. Such term does
not include a vessel with respect to gambling aboard such vessel
beyond the territorial waters of the United States during a covered
voyage (as defined in section 4472 of the Internal Revenue Code of
1986 as in effect on January 1, 1994).
The term "gambling establishment" means any common gaming or
gambling establishment operated for the purpose of gaming or
gambling, including accepting, recording, or registering bets, or
carrying on a policy game or any other lottery, or playing any game
of chance, for money or other thing of value.
The term "vessel" includes every kind of water and air craft or
other contrivance used or capable of being used as a means of
transportation on water, or on water and in the air, as well as any
ship, boat, barge, or other water craft or any structure capable of
floating on the water.
The term "American vessel" means any vessel documented or
numbered under the laws of the United States; and includes any
vessel which is neither documented or numbered under the laws of
the United States nor documented under the laws of any foreign
country, if such vessel is owned by, chartered to, or otherwise
controlled by one or more citizens or residents of the United
States or corporations organized under the laws of the United
States or of any State.
The term "wire communication facility" means any and all
instrumentalities, personnel, and services (among other things, the
receipt, forwarding, or delivery of communications) used or useful
in the transmission of writings, signs, pictures, and sounds of all
kinds by aid of wire, cable, or other like connection between the
points of origin and reception of such transmission.

-SOURCE-
(Added May 24, 1949, ch. 139, Sec. 23, 63 Stat. 92; amended Pub. L.
87-216, Sec. 1, Sept. 13, 1961, 75 Stat. 491; Pub. L. 103-322,
title XXXII, Sec. 320501, Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2114.)

-REFTEXT-
REFERENCES IN TEXT
Section 4472 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, referred to in
text, is classified to section 4472 of Title 26, Internal Revenue
Code.


-MISC1-
AMENDMENTS
1994 - Pub. L. 103-322, in definition of "gambling ship",
inserted at end "Such term does not include a vessel with respect
to gambling aboard such vessel beyond the territorial waters of the
United States during a covered voyage (as defined in section 4472
of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 as in effect on January 1,
1994)."
1961 - Pub. L. 87-216 inserted definition of "wire communication
facility".

-End-



-CITE-
18 USC Sec. 1082 02/01/2010

-EXPCITE-
TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES
CHAPTER 50 - GAMBLING

-HEAD-
Sec. 1082. Gambling ships

-STATUTE-
(a) It shall be unlawful for any citizen or resident of the
United States, or any other person who is on an American vessel or
is otherwise under or within the jurisdiction of the United States,
directly or indirectly -
(1) to set up, operate, or own or hold any interest in any
gambling ship or any gambling establishment on any gambling ship;
or
(2) in pursuance of the operation of any gambling establishment
on any gambling ship, to conduct or deal any gambling game, or to
conduct or operate any gambling device, or to induce, entice,
solicit, or permit any person to bet or play at any such
establishment,

if such gambling ship is on the high seas, or is an American vessel
or otherwise under or within the jurisdiction of the United States,
and is not within the jurisdiction of any State.
(b) Whoever violates the provisions of subsection (a) of this
section shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than
two years, or both.
(c) Whoever, being (1) the owner of an American vessel, or (2)
the owner of any vessel under or within the jurisdiction of the
United States, or (3) the owner of any vessel and being an American
citizen, shall use, or knowingly permit the use of, such vessel in
violation of any provision of this section shall, in addition to
any other penalties provided by this chapter, forfeit such vessel,
together with her tackle, apparel, and furniture, to the United
States.

-SOURCE-
(Added May 24, 1949, ch. 139, Sec. 23, 63 Stat. 92; amended Pub. L.
103-322, title XXXIII, Sec. 330016(1)(L), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat.
2147.)


-MISC1-
AMENDMENTS
1994 - Subsec. (b). Pub. L. 103-322 substituted "fined under this
title" for "fined not more than $10,000".

-End-



-CITE-
18 USC Sec. 1083 02/01/2010

-EXPCITE-
TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES
CHAPTER 50 - GAMBLING

-HEAD-
Sec. 1083. Transportation between shore and ship; penalties

-STATUTE-
(a) It shall be unlawful to operate or use, or to permit the
operation or use of, a vessel for the carriage or transportation,
or for any part of the carriage or transportation, either directly
or indirectly, of any passengers, for hire or otherwise, between a
point or place within the United States and a gambling ship which
is not within the jurisdiction of any State. This section does not
apply to any carriage or transportation to or from a vessel in case
of emergency involving the safety or protection of life or
property.
(b) The Secretary of the Treasury shall prescribe necessary and
reasonable rules and regulations to enforce this section and to
prevent violations of its provisions.
For the operation or use of any vessel in violation of this
section or of any rule or regulation issued hereunder, the owner or
charterer of such vessel shall be subject to a civil penalty of
$200 for each passenger carried or transported in violation of such
provisions, and the master or other person in charge of such vessel
shall be subject to a civil penalty of $300. Such penalty shall
constitute a lien on such vessel, and proceedings to enforce such
lien may be brought summarily by way of libel in any court of the
United States having jurisdiction thereof. The Secretary of the
Treasury may mitigate or remit any of the penalties provided by
this section on such terms as he deems proper.

-SOURCE-
(Added May 24, 1949, ch. 139, Sec. 23, 63 Stat. 92.)

-End-



-CITE-
18 USC Sec. 1084 02/01/2010

-EXPCITE-
TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES
CHAPTER 50 - GAMBLING

-HEAD-
Sec. 1084. Transmission of wagering information; penalties

-STATUTE-
(a) Whoever being engaged in the business of betting or wagering
knowingly uses a wire communication facility for the transmission
in interstate or foreign commerce of bets or wagers or information
assisting in the placing of bets or wagers on any sporting event or
contest, or for the transmission of a wire communication which
entitles the recipient to receive money or credit as a result of
bets or wagers, or for information assisting in the placing of bets
or wagers, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more
than two years, or both.
(b) Nothing in this section shall be construed to prevent the
transmission in interstate or foreign commerce of information for
use in news reporting of sporting events or contests, or for the
transmission of information assisting in the placing of bets or
wagers on a sporting event or contest from a State or foreign
country where betting on that sporting event or contest is legal
into a State or foreign country in which such betting is legal.
(c) Nothing contained in this section shall create immunity from
criminal prosecution under any laws of any State.
(d) When any common carrier, subject to the jurisdiction of the
Federal Communications Commission, is notified in writing by a
Federal, State, or local law enforcement agency, acting within its
jurisdiction, that any facility furnished by it is being used or
will be used for the purpose of transmitting or receiving gambling
information in interstate or foreign commerce in violation of
Federal, State or local law, it shall discontinue or refuse, the
leasing, furnishing, or maintaining of such facility, after
reasonable notice to the subscriber, but no damages, penalty or
forfeiture, civil or criminal, shall be found against any common
carrier for any act done in compliance with any notice received
from a law enforcement agency. Nothing in this section shall be
deemed to prejudice the right of any person affected thereby to
secure an appropriate determination, as otherwise provided by law,
in a Federal court or in a State or local tribunal or agency, that
such facility should not be discontinued or removed, or should be
restored.
(e) As used in this section, the term "State" means a State of
the United States, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of
Puerto Rico, or a commonwealth, territory or possession of the
United States.

-SOURCE-
(Added Pub. L. 87-216, Sec. 2, Sept. 13, 1961, 75 Stat. 491;
amended Pub. L. 100-690, title VII, Sec. 7024, Nov. 18, 1988, 102
Stat. 4397; Pub. L. 101-647, title XII, Sec. 1205(g), Nov. 29,
1990, 104 Stat. 4831; Pub. L. 103-322, title XXXIII, Sec.
330016(1)(L), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)


-MISC1-
AMENDMENTS
1994 - Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 103-322 substituted "fined under this
title" for "fined not more than $10,000".
1990 - Subsec. (e). Pub. L. 101-647 inserted "commonwealth,"
before "territory or possession of the United States".
1988 - Subsec. (b). Pub. L. 100-690, Sec. 7024(a), inserted "or
foreign country" after "State" in two places.
Subsec. (c). Pub. L. 100-690, Sec. 7024(b)(2), struck out ",
Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, territory, possession, or the District
of Columbia" after "State".
Subsec. (e). Pub. L. 100-690, Sec. 7024(b)(1), added subsec. (e).

-End-

[infamousbacardi]

As of today, it is on the books as being only illegal for a booking company to accept deposits online via credit card. This is because it easier to sanction the credit cards for doing so. As a result, you have seen a vast majority of credit cards no longer being accepted online by bookmakers...even the most popular ones in the States like Bookmaker, Bodog, 5 Dimes, etc. They will still accept some credit cards, and to my experience an even greater amount of debit cards.
However, all this being said, any given court in the United States could broadly apply the UIEGA of the old days (I believe the last actual update to this was over 40 years ago) to also mean not only telephone, but internet as well.
As of today, I'm fairly confident in saying there is no specific law which explicitly makes illegal the gambling of U.S. Citizens via the internet, however, as we often see in court cases, in only takes a broad application of any given law for a court to assert its plethora of judicial activism options. Short of being appealed, they don't have much to lose by doing so.
If you want to further proof of this via a bill, look up Barney Frank's current proposal which is being sat on in the House of Representatives for over 2 years now, an attempt to make it explicitly LEGAL here in the States. There would be no need for this Bill if it were already explicitly "legal", so that at least should answer that question for you. However, it is widely known that it is not explicitly currently illegal, per se. I believe the Barney Frank bill is something like HR2267, and was last touched by the House in July of this year. Though, I believe they actually passed the proposal this time....you'd have to look into that to verify that though. This means nothing in terms of it happening (being legalized anytime soon), but it is certainly a required step in the long battle to get it explicitly legalized.
Hope this helps.

[Trucker George]

OP may find this page useful: http://www.gambling-law-us.com/

Of course, check out the federal laws http://www.gambling-law-us.com/Federal-Laws/

and the state laws:

http://www.gambling-law-us.com/State-Laws/

[bubba]

thanks for the responses durrito and infamous

[bubba]

trucker- is that website legit? it doesnt have a .gov at the end. besides being long, how do i know what i read there is true? its making my head spin regadless. i need a cliffnotes for that!

[durito]

However, all this being said, any given court in the United States could broadly apply the UIEGA of the old days (I believe the last actual update to this was over 40 years ago) to also mean not only telephone, but internet as well.

The UIGEA was passed in fall 2006 and went into effect this year.

[trixtrix]

how do you prove a negative?

is there a law stating if it's legal to take a dump, anyone??

[chilidog]

how do you prove a negative?

is there a law stating if it's legal to take a dump, anyone??

It would definitely fall under 'public indecency', but yes, there are 'public defecation' and 'public urination' laws on the books in many jurisdictions.

[infamousbacardi]

The UIGEA was passed in fall 2006 and went into effect this year.

Yes, sorry, I was referring to the wire transmission act from some however many years ago. Thanks.