Long-Term Impact Questions on Betting For a Living

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  • Spartan14745
    SBR MVP
    • 04-15-10
    • 1032

    #1
    Long-Term Impact Questions on Betting For a Living
    I'm hoping some long-term experienced bettors can answer some questions I have regarding the financial impacts an American online bettor faces.

    1) I currently bet online with Diamond Sports. Never had a problem with deposits and withdrawals, great mobile betting, and very helpful customer service. Is it safe to rack up a $50k - $100k (or more) balance on a legit sportsbook? Would they look at me as just another player or make life difficult with my bankroll?

    2) I've never had a check withdrawal from my sportsbook, only withdrew by **. I was told there wouldn't be anything to worry about just as long as I withdraw less than $10k (can only get $2500 max withdrawal at a time through ** anyway) and I don't feel comfortable depositing a sportsbook check in my US bank account. Should I be concerned with withdrawing $2500 two and 3 times a month for a long period of time?

    3) Will I lose the risk of getting jail time if I just pay the 50% gambling tax on my winnings from the online sportsbook? I don't mind paying the taxes at the end of the year if the IRS has that "just give us our share" mentality. Should I hire an accountant and just show up with pages of my online sportsbook account activity?

    4) My other alternative to just betting online full-time was to go out to Vegas 2 - 3 months at a time, then come home for about a month to spend time with family, then go back to "work" in Vegas for another 2 - 3 months and so on. Of course, it's just a lot easier to bet online but if Vegas is the only way to make money without worrying about the IRS putting me in jail then that's what I've got to do.

    I know I'm getting pretty in depth of all of this but I'm just trying to look at all the advantages and disadvantages of where and how I'd like to take my life to the next level as a sports bettor. Please no negative posts, just looking for serious and insightful information from people who can speak from experience. Feel free to send me a private message with any of your thoughts and wisdom.

    Thanks everyone, GL with all your plays!
  • bookie
    SBR MVP
    • 08-10-05
    • 2112

    #2
    1) They would profile your plays. If you were beating the number consistently, they would make your life difficult.

    2) Yes, you should be concerned. First, the ** fees will kill you. And second, you'll have to find different ** offices to use and eventually the head office will see a pattern and look into where you're sending it and give you a call and make your life difficult. If you're planning on paying your taxes anyway, get used to using bank wires.

    3) Betting on sports is not illegal, so if you're paying your taxes you're fine. Take lots of screen shots and keep good records because you will be audited. But if you're prepared, you're fine.

    4) Unless you've got a six figure bankroll and are just killing it, or have a free place to crash or something, you're really adding to your costs and professional gamblers rarely have the kind of margins that would make commuting and keeping two residences feasible. Plus running around to different sports books doesn't buy you what it used to now that they're all coordinated.
    Comment
    • Trucker George
      SBR High Roller
      • 01-09-10
      • 194

      #3
      I thought OP was making a funny.
      Comment
      • Hareeba!
        BARRELED IN @ SBR!
        • 07-01-06
        • 37287

        #4
        fortunately I'm not a Yank so don't have all the difficulties you speak of but the first thing that hit me was why on earth would anybody with that sort of bankroll use just one book and especially one which rarely ever has the best odds?
        Comment
        • Spartan14745
          SBR MVP
          • 04-15-10
          • 1032

          #5
          3) Betting on sports is not illegal, so if you're paying your taxes you're fine. Take lots of screen shots and keep good records because you will be audited. But if you're prepared, you're fine.

          4) Unless you've got a six figure bankroll and are just killing it, or have a free place to crash or something, you're really adding to your costs and professional gamblers rarely have the kind of margins that would make commuting and keeping two residences feasible. Plus running around to different sports books doesn't buy you what it used to now that they're all coordinated.[/quote]

          On Point 2, wouldn't my bank eventually deny offshore bank wires to my account if they know the funds are coming from a gambling entity?

          On Point 3, sports betting online though in the US is illegal (or so I thought?). Does the IRS not care whether I have winnings online or in Vegas?

          On Point 4, this "business venture" would also involve a close friend so the costs would be 50/50 (at least that's the simple way of putting it for the moment) and I wouldn't take this "plunge" unless I had a bankroll close to six figures. I understand your reasoning though on the commuting costs, that was my main disadvantage (besides potentially going to jail).

          In your own opinion bookie, do you think the pros (assuming I have a good to very good winning percentage) outweigh the cons?

          Thanks for your response!
          Comment
          • Spartan14745
            SBR MVP
            • 04-15-10
            • 1032

            #6
            Originally posted by Hareeba!
            fortunately I'm not a Yank so don't have all the difficulties you speak of but the first thing that hit me was why on earth would anybody with that sort of bankroll use just one book and especially one which rarely ever has the best odds?
            If I were to pursue this with the larger bankroll that I have saved up I would be using multiple sportsbook for better odds, I know that's the smart way for a better long-term profit.
            Comment
            • Hareeba!
              BARRELED IN @ SBR!
              • 07-01-06
              • 37287

              #7
              Originally posted by Spartan14745
              On Point 3, sports betting online though in the US is illegal (or so I thought?). Does the IRS not care whether I have winnings online or in Vegas?
              There seems to be lots of posts stating both that it is and isn't illegal but I'm pretty sure that legality is of no concern to the IRS (generally) so long as you are tax compliant

              Illegal operators won't get into trouble with the IRS so long as they comply with tax law .... remember that it was tax which eventually brought Al Capone unstuck as they couldn't pin anything else on him

              I think perhaps money laundering and drug trafficking may be exceptions?
              Comment
              • sharpcat
                Restricted User
                • 12-19-09
                • 4516

                #8
                One does not become a professional gambler with a $100,000+ bankroll overnight. These concerns are all things that would be learned along the way so obviously I would conclude that you are thinking way too far into the future here.

                1) The IRS does not care about any laws other than laws that pertain to collecting taxes on all earned income (whether it be in Vegas, online, or from your local bookie).
                2) Banks do not care about transactions coming from offshore they are only concerned with whats going out.
                3) Nobody has ever been prosecuted for online gambling the government is focused on those who are taking wagers.
                4) ** is required to report any suspicious activity to the IRS, i.e. transactions over $2,500 or frequent transactions.

                Don't get too far ahead of yourself
                Comment
                • Spartan14745
                  SBR MVP
                  • 04-15-10
                  • 1032

                  #9
                  Thanks guys for the comments! You've definitely cleared my head on some of the important stuff.
                  Comment
                  • EasyHustlin
                    SBR Wise Guy
                    • 07-15-10
                    • 633

                    #10
                    Would it be possible to just wire your money to an offshore bank? The IRS couldn't touch it.
                    Comment
                    • spot picker
                      Restricted User
                      • 11-27-10
                      • 189

                      #11
                      spartan when your threw with the girl send her my way.
                      Comment
                      • durito
                        SBR Posting Legend
                        • 07-03-06
                        • 13173

                        #12
                        If you aren't comfortable receiving checks and wires you aren't gonna be able to bet for a living in the usa.

                        I don't know where you are getting a 50% tax rate either.
                        Comment
                        • katstale
                          SBR MVP
                          • 02-07-07
                          • 3924

                          #13
                          If you have sufficient bankroll at this time and you are confident with your model--you should be moving offshore to a country which doesn't care about your "work".
                          Comment
                          • bookie
                            SBR MVP
                            • 08-10-05
                            • 2112

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Spartan14745
                            [I]3)

                            In your own opinion bookie, do you think the pros (assuming I have a good to very good winning percentage) outweigh the cons?
                            Do you mean the pro's of going to Vegas? No. I don't. I don't see any net cost-benefit at all to going to Vegas.

                            Or do you mean the pro's of becoming a sports bettor? I guess I don't think it's a pro-and-con thing. You grow into it or you don't. Here I have to agree with the posters who've suggested that you might be more fantasizing than planning. Do you have a track record of making a thousand plays a year with real money on real lines and hitting 54%? It seems like if you do, then the experience of doing so would have guided you through these questions.

                            I'm not saying you can't do it, but I am saying don't get ahead of yourself. Make sure you have experience of doing this day after day and going through the traumas of downswings and all that before you uproot your life and take your friend's money.
                            Comment
                            • Johnny 55
                              Restricted User
                              • 05-16-09
                              • 1079

                              #15
                              The real question is this: If you figure out how to make money and that is a big if, and you live in the United States and you decide you want to make real money by moving out of the country where you can move funds electronically, where is the best place to live that is safe, has good weather, and is easy to obtain a VC?
                              Comment
                              • alling
                                SBR MVP
                                • 05-13-10
                                • 1405

                                #16
                                Originally posted by katstale
                                If you have sufficient bankroll at this time and you are confident with your model--you should be moving offshore to a country which doesn't care about your "work".
                                good point
                                Comment
                                • Spartan14745
                                  SBR MVP
                                  • 04-15-10
                                  • 1032

                                  #17
                                  There's no way I'm going to be moving offshore to a different country, life's too short to be away from family, not even for money. If I was a loner, didn't have much family, and didn't have a long-term relationship going on then maybe I'd look into it.

                                  Durito, I have no idea where I read 50% as the tax rate but I know I did read it. Just looked on the IRS website and I see it's a flat 25%. Thanks for questioning my comment!

                                  Guys, this isn't something that I'm planning on doing tomorrow or even next month. I've been betting for a while and doing well so it sparked my interest on doing it full-time instead of a hobby but I was in no means ready to quit my job today. In fact, if I was going to go through with this it wouldn't be for another couple of years or so to get myself debt-free and not have many monetary obligations. I have thought this through but that was the point of this thread, to gain advice on the long-term ramifications. And you guys certainly helped!

                                  I appreciate ALL the comments in here and anyone else who pops their head in please post any of your own comments, I continue to read this thread and will do so.
                                  Comment
                                  • Johnny 55
                                    Restricted User
                                    • 05-16-09
                                    • 1079

                                    #18
                                    So you currently have debt, you have no idea about tax rates, you have no idea about how much more money you would make offshore and it is considerable due to the ease of moving money but you have been doing well betting and think you will make a career out of it. This sounds like a great long term plan, where do I sign up to invest in this idea.
                                    Comment
                                    • RickySteve
                                      Restricted User
                                      • 01-31-06
                                      • 3415

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Johnny 55
                                      So you currently have debt, you have no idea about tax rates, you have no idea about how much more money you would make offshore and it is considerable due to the ease of moving money but you have been doing well betting and think you will make a career out of it. This sounds like a great long term plan, where do I sign up to invest in this idea.

                                      ...
                                      Comment
                                      • RonPaul2008
                                        SBR Hall of Famer
                                        • 06-08-07
                                        • 6741

                                        #20
                                        There is nothing illegal about betting on sports online.
                                        Comment
                                        • trixtrix
                                          Restricted User
                                          • 04-13-06
                                          • 1897

                                          #21
                                          i'd think the debt part would make it even more worthwhile to get out of the country
                                          Comment
                                          • odysseus
                                            SBR High Roller
                                            • 11-30-09
                                            • 134

                                            #22
                                            So is everyone sayng that gambling winnings are taxed at 25% (or 50%) in the US? That sucks!
                                            Comment
                                            • zjohnzzz
                                              SBR Wise Guy
                                              • 09-15-10
                                              • 517

                                              #23
                                              every kind of income is taxed legal or not
                                              Comment
                                              • HeeeHAWWWW
                                                SBR Hall of Famer
                                                • 06-13-08
                                                • 5487

                                                #24
                                                Move to the UK, no tax on gambling income, can use pinnacle and co unimpeded .......
                                                Comment
                                                • durito
                                                  SBR Posting Legend
                                                  • 07-03-06
                                                  • 13173

                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by odysseus
                                                  So is everyone sayng that gambling winnings are taxed at 25% (or 50%) in the US? That sucks!
                                                  They are taxed, both of those rates are just made up. The rate depends on how much you make like most everything else.

                                                  Originally posted by HeeeHAWWWW
                                                  Move to the UK, no tax on gambling income, can use pinnacle and co unimpeded .......
                                                  USA citizens still owe taxes no matter where they live.
                                                  Comment
                                                  • John Dough
                                                    SBR MVP
                                                    • 09-21-05
                                                    • 1785

                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by durito
                                                    They are taxed, both of those rates are just made up. The rate depends on how much you make like most everything else.
                                                    Exactly correct. Your amount of income puts you into whatever tax bracket it puts you, whether you're a professional gambler or a doctor.
                                                    Comment
                                                    • tachi
                                                      SBR Sharp
                                                      • 03-25-09
                                                      • 309

                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by Johnny 55
                                                      The real question is this: If you figure out how to make money and that is a big if, and you live in the United States and you decide you want to make real money by moving out of the country where you can move funds electronically, where is the best place to live that is safe, has good weather, and is easy to obtain a VC?
                                                      Colombia! (like durito).

                                                      plus you can choose between Colombian's beaches at the Pacific ocean
                                                      or their Caribbean beaches.
                                                      Comment
                                                      • durito
                                                        SBR Posting Legend
                                                        • 07-03-06
                                                        • 13173

                                                        #28
                                                        Good luck moving gambling funds in and out of Colombian banks.

                                                        Good luck on the pacific coast too.
                                                        Comment
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