How complex disputes should be handled (and props to SIA)

[Justin7]

There was a prop in the Germany-Uruguay game. Will Klose score a goal? Some players bet "Yes", because SIA had the most favorable odds on "Yes". Klose did not play in the match, and SIA graded the "Yes" as a loser.

Most books have a rule on player props. If a player does not participate, bets on that player prop are no action. SIA did not have this rule. In that regard, they were different from the industry standard. Based on their rules though, they were correct in grading those props a loser.

Anytime someone is surprised by how a wager is graded, there is a problem. Most players expected it to be "No action". Sure they should have read the rules, but nearly all books have a rule treating this situation as no action.

SIA and SBR discussed this problem. SIA agreed that their rule on that issue was different from the industry standard. They consequently changed the rule, and refunded all losing bets on that prop.

It's refreshing to work with a book that wants to do the right thing.

[vitalyo]

That's great they did the right thing !!! I was amazed to read original post that they grade his bet as a loser .

Good job Justin
Cheers GL.

[John Dough]

Good stuff.

[Santo]

Whilst I'm sure the players appreciate getting paid out, I'm still not entirely comfortable with this. Books often have slightly different rules for the grading of props (and they're priced accordingly), which provides some opportunities. Do we really want to force some 'industry standard' grading on these?

Surely the purpose of a regulator / mediator is to enforce the rules as written, not to impose new ones.

[vitalyo]

Whilst I'm sure the players appreciate getting paid out, I'm still not entirely comfortable with this. Books often have slightly different rules for the grading of props (and they're priced accordingly), which provides some opportunities. Do we really want to force some 'industry standard' grading on these?

Surely the purpose of a regulator / mediator is to enforce the rules as written, not to impose new ones.

No ! No one wants to force such a thing .
But if your horse is no runner you can't grade bet as a loser! In fact SIA is the only book in the world that i know of DID grade this prop as as a loser .

Cheers GL

[bubba]

justin- what was there rule? did they have a rule specifically stating all wagers are action? did they have no rule at all?

[Justin7]

Bubba,

They had no rule on point. By their rules, it was a loser. But it's not good if a player is surprised... The fewer surprises a player faces the better.

To be clear, we didn't pressure them to pay the player. They did it because they thought it was the best thing to do.

[Santo]

No ! No one wants to force such a thing .
But if your horse is no runner you can't grade bet as a loser! In fact SIA is the only book in the world that i know of DID grade this prop as as a loser .

Cheers GL

Depends on the market rules. If I bet into an ante-post market, a non-runner loses. Same is the case with golf, again depending on book and rules.

[RickySteve]

I'm probably mistaken, but don't all bets have action on Betfair "to score" markets?

[mathdotcom]

SIA did not do the right thing. Grading the bets as losers was the right thing to do. It was a very generous move on their part to refund those bets.

When it comes to props, the bettor should know that books differ in their rules. It is not SIA's fault the bettor did not read the rules. The only exception I can imagine is if there truly is an industry standard and they are the only exception - such as rules on MLB rainouts.

Books are all over the place when it comes to grading props like Runs+Hits+Errors (Action or Listed Pitchers) and Will there be a run in the first inning (Action or Listed Pitchers)?

[wrongturn]

Don't think it is bad for SIA, much less than the ad fee for the equivalent exposure. smart move.

[Pokerjoe]

Even though this is a much maligned book, they'd be my suggestion to any new player as the very first book they should fund.

[The Bishop]

Great book imo

[Santo]

Yes I don't think it's a bad PR move on SIA's part (though would have been better immediately after the event and accompanied by a press release, ala Paddy Power), but I don't think it's necessarily how 'disputes should be handled'...

[bubba]

well if there is no rule, i assume industry standard should be done. im sure it says somewhere on the website that vegas rules apply when not mentioned here. i think players deserve to be refunded. its nice they get paid but i dont see what they are doing so great here.

[Dark Horse]

Always interested in hearing about resolved cases. Reading this, I was going to ask if you could share some more success stories, preferably involving more complex situations.

But then I realized you had used 'complex dispute' in the title. So now I'm wondering if this simple dispute serves as example for more complex cases, or if this was actually a complex case.