Betdaq stoles me 575€!

[fingas]

by any chance, did betdaq send you an email when they decided to not charge the moneybookers and neteller deposits?

I don't remember if they did.

But if so, did they mentioned that because of that their help section would change?


So, basically every time I want to bet with a bookie I must read their terms and conditions AND their help section to see if they didn't change it since the previous day, am I right?

That's why betfair continues to rule even with their premium charges.

[chachi]

it just keeps getting more and more arduous to keep up with online bookies :|

[kamoon]

I have just requested my full betting history with Betdaq from the 1st of November 2009 to this date. After they send it to me, I'm willing to share it with you to show you I have not done anything wrong. I want to disclose as much information as is reasonable for you, the other players, so that you can make your own judgments whether it's worth continuing to play with Betdaq or not.

[yobinad]

Betdaq must be a trade book of trust.
It's strange this kind of behaviour.

[kamoon]

My full account statement from 1st of November 2009. Please do not abuse the information presented in the file.

http://www.editgrid.com/user/kamoon/Account_Statement

[chachi]

As I posted on your other thread about this elsewhere ...

You took advantage starting last week it seems ... until then, relatively normal use, but afterwards, well ....

On 14th, a big deposit made with tiny win proceeds.
On 15th, a full withdrawal performed.
On 16th, a big deposit made and 2 tiny bet proceeds post.
On 17th, again a full withdrawal was requested.
On 18th the prior full withdrawal was undone and then reinstated.
On 18th again, the full withdrawal from day before was undone and then reinstated.
On 18th, penalty charge debited.

IMO ... guilty as charged in terms of abusing their commission totals vs free MB fees.

They _should_ have advised you of doing such, but I guarantee someplace in their help or T&Cs they give themselves the right to do so in such a turn of events.

Also, something does seem amiss as your past week's activity are 4-figure amounts pocketing ~ 1% winnings, before that it was 2 figure or 3 figure amounts with minimum 10% targets and often much larger % wise.

[kamoon]

I agree with what has been said that I did not pay enough fees to cover the Moneybookers deposit fees supposedly 2% or 2.8% for Betdaq. I could've not known how much it is for them and I didn't think I have to care about it. They have set the rules (free deposits and withdrawals), not me. I did everything in my power to obey those rules and did not try to take advantage of them at any point. If they don't want me as a customer because I am unprofitable to them, or for any other reason, they can close my account whenever they please and return my money to me but they just can't go and take the money. After all, it is my money.

Edit: I have not gotten a reply from SBR concerning my complaint about Betdaq. I think SBR doesn't deal with Betdaq as it can't be found in the review list either. I will write to IBAS tomorrow but only after I have had a reply from their Operations Manager to my latest query, assuming he will reply tomorrow as I have been told. I still hope I can get the money without the need for IBAS or any other institute but I surely will contact them if I won't.

[kamoon]

Got a response from their Operations Manager and it's their final stance that they will not give back the money they took.
I will submit a complaint to the IBAS.


My apologies for the delay in getting back to you but I wasn't in the office until late today.

The terms and conditions relating to the Moneybookers promotion have been available on the site since the promotion began. There is a clear indication on the big red banner on the main deposit page stating that terms and conditions apply. It is the responsibility of each individual member to ensure they understand what these terms and conditions are. If you were unable to find them on the site you could have contacted the helpdesk to enquire as to what they were, and we would have gladly assisted you.

You may withdraw your current balance of €1,444.81 should you so wish without penalty, as the moneybookers deposit fees totaling €65.65 have already been recouped. BETDAQ are unfortunately not in a position to to refund you for these fees.

If you are ever unsure as to the amount of Moneybookers fees incurred, you can calculate it as 2% of total successful Moneybookers lodgements to your BETDAQ account. If you wish to confirm the total amount of fees incurred versus commission earned in a given period before you make another withdrawal you can contact the helpdesk and they'll be happy to assist you.

Thanks for your understanding.

Kind Regards,
---
Operations Manager

[kamoon]

Date: 2010/6/22

Hey,

I can't believe this. Not giving me a chance to generate enough
commission to cover the Moneybookers fees is just utter bullshit and
theft. I have written a complaint to the IBAS and British & Irish
Advertising Authorities and I also contacted the Trading Standards
Institute. I will continue to pursue for the money for as long as it
takes to get my money back. I will also write about this to every
gambling forum I can find in the Internet to inform your customers
about your arrogance.

-xxxx


2010/6/21:
> Mr xxxx,
>
> My apologies for the delay in getting back to you but I wasn't in the office
> until late today.
>
> The terms and conditions relating to the Moneybookers*promotion have
> been*available on the site since the promotion began. There is a clear
> *indication on the big red banner on the*main deposit page stating that
> terms and conditions apply. It is the responsibility of each individual
> member to ensure they understand what these terms and conditions are. If you
> were unable to find them on the site you could have contacted the
> helpdesk*to enquire as to what they were, and we would have gladly assisted
> you.
>
> You may withdraw your current balance of €1,444.81 should you so wish
> without penalty, as the moneybookers*deposit fees totaling €65.65 have
> already been recouped. BETDAQ are unfortunately not in a position to to
> refund you for these fees.
>
> If you are ever unsure as to the amount of Moneybookers*fees incurred, you
> can calculate it as 2% of total successful Moneybookers*lodgements to your
> BETDAQ account. If you wish to confirm the total amount of fees incurred
> versus commission earned in a given period before you make another
> withdrawal*you can contact the helpdesk*and they'll be happy to assist you.
>
> Thanks for your understanding.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Phil Tomlinson
> Operations Manager
>
> BETDAQ
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Date: **Saturday, June 19, 2010* 06:52 PM
>
> Hey,
>
> I did not know I took part in any promotion when I made my deposits. I
> thought deposits are normal transactions in gambling and not a
> promotion of some sort.
>
> It would be impossible for me to click through and read every signle
> page in Betdaq site to be able to find the particular terms you're
> referring to or any hidden fees that I may have to face. Why wouldn't
> you just include them to the Terms and Conditions on your site is
> beyond my understanding.
>
> Anyway, like I have said before, you have failed to notify me prior to
> taking the money out of my account as per your terms and this makes it
> theft in my books:
> "There may be costs relating to the transfer of funds into or out of
> Members' Accounts which, wherever possible, will be notified to the
> Member in advance of his/her agreement to proceed with a transfer
> instruction."
>
> May I withdraw the rest of my balance of €1,444.81 from my Betdaq
> account to my Moneybookers account or are you going steal more from me
> if I make a withdrawal? However, I want that you process my full
> withdrawal of €1,510.46. If you fail to do so I will make a complaint
> about Betdaq to the IBAS within two days. If IBAS is unable to help me
> I will continue to pursue my money with the help of other institutes.
>
> I have already filed a complaint with Sportsbookreview and I have made
> some forum posts to alert other gamblers about your behavior in these
> forums below. I'm planning to continue to spread the word as we
> players can not know about the fees Moneybookers charges you and
> therefore we don't even have the capacity to calculate whether we have
> paid enough commission to Betdaq to cover the deposit fees that you
> have to incur.
>
> Beware of BetDAQ hidden withdrawal fees
>
> Beware of BetDAQ hidden withdrawal fees - MoneySavingExpert.com Forums
>
> Betdaq stoles me 575€! - Sports Handicapping, Betting & Picks - SBR Forum
>
> Sincerely,
> xxxx
>
>
>
> 2010/6/19:
>> Mr. xxxx,
>>
>> Thanks for your email.
>>
>> Please refer to the 'Deposit by Moneybookers'*section of the Help page on
>> our website. You will note that clearly displayed in the sub-section
>> entitled ' Free Fees' is the following:
>>
>> • Unless otherwise stated in the deposits page on the web site, BETDAQ
>> will
>> absorb the cost of all fees subject to the members total commission paid
>> being equal or *greater than the cost of the fees.
>>
>> • We reserve the right to charge customers who are deemed to be abusing
>> this
>> offer the full rate.
>>
>> • BETDAQ reserves the right to withdraw this offer at any time, without
>> prior notice
>>
>> It is the responsibility of each individual member to ensure they fully
>> understand the conditions*of any promotions they take part in. As such, we
>> are not in a position to refund you the €65.65, as this represents a cost
>> incurred by us which we reserve the right to recoup as outlined in the
>> aforementioned Terms and Conditions.
>>
>> Thank you for your understanding.
>>
>>
>> Kind Regards,
>>
>> Phil Tomlinson
>> Operations Manager.
>>
>>
>>
>> BETDAQ
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> Date: **Friday, June 18, 2010* 05:27
>>
>> Hey again,
>>
>> Just to add this in your terms and conditions which is the only thing
>> I can find even closely related to what you're doing now:
>> "There may be costs relating to the transfer of funds into or out of
>> Members' Accounts which, wherever possible, will be notified to the
>> Member in advance of his/her agreement to proceed with a transfer
>> instruction."
>>
>> Why wasn't I notified as per your terms before you removed the cash
>> from my betting account?
>>
>> On the deposit page I can see "All Neteller and Moneybookers deposits
>> are now free!" with "Terms and conditions apply" but clicking on it
>> leads to nothing. I have confirmed from other users that they cannot
>> find the "Free Fees terms and conditions" from your site either.
>>
>> Please, proceed with my withdrawal of 1,510.46 EUR
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> xxxx
>>
>>
>>
>> 2010/6/18:
>>> Hey,
>>>
>>> I have filed a complaint with SportsbookReview. I want my withdrawal
>>> of 1,510.46 EUR processed to my Moneybookers account in full and
>>> without deductions. I have never seen the terms and conditions you are
>>> referring to before and I can't find them on your site. Also, you send
>>> emails that state:
>>> "0% fees on all "Moneybookers" and "Neteller" transactions *
>>> No hidden charges!"
>>>
>>> Not to mention that in your Deposit & Withdrawal page it tells "Charges:
>>> None"
>>>
>>> And yet there seems to be hidden charges. I will take this into
>>> account the next time I deposit with Betdaq to make sure that I
>>> generate at least as much commission as the Moneybookers fees but this
>>> time I was completely unaware of these charges that you had to incur
>>> and you should've at least given me a warning before taking the money
>>> from my balance.
>>>
>>> If I will not receive my money in full to my Moneybookers account, I
>>> will next make a contact with The Independent Betting Arbitration
>>> Service, Advertising Standards Authority, The Trading Standards
>>> Institute or even the small claims court if that's what it takes as I
>>> feel I have been mistreat.
>>>
>>> Please, do not make matters worse for either of us.
>>>
>>> As I have placed most of my bets as "Lay" there can't be as much
>>> commission generated as if they would've been "Back" bets. Lay bets
>>> need a larger amount of money in the betting account because of the
>>> higher risk involved. Because I had risked my entire balance at least
>>> for once each time before asking for a withdrawal I honestly thought
>>> that it would be sufficient.
>>>
>>> Hoping to resolve this matter,
>>> xxxx
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2010/6/18:
>>>> Hey,
>>>>
>>>> Please put the €65.65 back. Had I known there would be such a
>>>> ridiculous fee, I would've not tried to withdraw the funds.
>>>> I did not know about your 2% Moneybookers fees.
>>>>
>>>> I will continue betting and try to generate the 65.65€ in commission
>>>> rather than just hand it out to you.
>>>>
>>>> Also, I'm trying to browse the T&C's but can't find this clause in
>>>> there.
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> xxxx
>>>>
>>>> 2010/6/18>:
>>>>> Dear Sir,
>>>>>
>>>>> Many thanks for your e-mail.
>>>>>
>>>>> From the 1st November 2009 when the free Moneybooker Fees were
>>>>> introduced,*you generated*€21.51 in commission, however*you incurred
>>>>> €87.16
>>>>> in money booker fees* (€4,358.20 @2%)
>>>>>
>>>>> Therefore as per Our terms and conditions we have*made a manual
>>>>> adjustment
>>>>> to your account*of**€65.65.This adjustment can be seen on your account
>>>>> statement.
>>>>>
>>>>> Free Fees terms and conditions:
>>>>>
>>>>> • Unless otherwise stated in the deposits page on the website, BETDAQ
>>>>> will
>>>>> absorb the cost of all fees subject to the members total commission
>>>>> paid
>>>>> being equal or *greater than the cost of the fees.
>>>>>
>>>>> • We reserve the right to charge customers who are deemed to be abusing
>>>>> this
>>>>> offer the full rate.
>>>>>
>>>>> • BETDAQ reserves the right to withdraw this offer at any time, without
>>>>> prior notice
>>>>>
>>>>> If I can be of any further assistance, do not hesitate to contact me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Debbie
>>>>> Customer Service Executive
>>>>> BETDAQ
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> Date: **Friday, June 18, 2010* 09:53 AM
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey,
>>>>>
>>>>> Why was my withdrawal of 1,510.46 rejected? I just tried it again as I
>>>>> cannot see a reason why it would be rejected.
>>>>>
>>>>> -xxxx

[kamoon]

Steal my funds, close my account. Business as usual at Betdaq.

Please note that we have terminated your account with BETDAQ as per the terms and conditions set out below:

9 Suspension and termination
We reserve the right to refuse to register an applicant or to suspend and/or terminate a Member's registration and Member's Account at our absolute discretion and with no obligation to provide Members with any reasons for so doing.
Without restricting our ability to rely on other remedies that may be available to us, we will suspend or terminate Members' Accounts or cancel any unmatched offers at our absolute discretion if: (i) we suspect that Members are acting other than on their own behalf or otherwise in concert with others or engaging in illegal or fraudulent activity while using the BETDAQ Services; (ii) we suspect that Members are breaching any terms of this Agreement; (iii) we suspect that Members are acting in a manner that is detrimental to the conduct of BETDAQ's business; (iv) we suspect that Members may be having difficulties obtaining credit; (v) we suspect that it is illegal for a Member to participate in the Exchange, (vi) we are unable to verify registered address or contact telephone number, or (vii) we are required to do so by law.

We regret that we are not in a position to discuss this matter with you any further.

Kind Regards,
Hazel
Customer Service Manager
BETDAQ

[chachi]

What did you honestly expect?

You went on and on and on about it at MSE, perhaps THE most prominent matched betting forum in terms of google visibility, which places you firmly in breach of their 'acting in concert/etc' T&Cs ...

[kamoon]

I don't mind losing the account. I already lost confidence betting/having money there. If they can pull terms out of nowhere for stealing funds, I won't be playing in a firm like that.

I just want to get my money back.

[kamoon]

As far as I know Betdaq never replied to SBR's enquiry about the situation. Pretty arrogant from them to not even try to justify their theft.

[kamoon]

Anacart have you had any updates on this situation? I have filed a complaint with the IBAS but I don't know for how long it will take before they tell their opinion about it. They have told me that the complaint is received so I think all I can do now is wait.

[Anacart]

Nothing... they just stole my money... and i didnt request a payout!!!! I only ask if i can do it... incredible!

[Santo]

UK books don't tend to deal with SBR - UK privacy law for one, and the fact that SBR aren't a registered mediator under the gambling commission being another factor.

IBAS was the correct move, though I wouldn't like to put a % on your chance of success.