I didnt bet at Betdaq for some time until they send me a email offering me 2.5% of commission rate. I made some deposits on the last weeks(2k € aprox by moneybookers) and only one payout 500€! When i send them a email asking if i can do a new payout(i didnt request any payout) because of their fee politics, they charge my account 575€ from moneybookers fees since 1st November 2009!!!! They just stoles me 575€! LT
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Last edited by Anacart; 06-16-10, 01:48 PM. -
They did this after i send them this email: Hi, My name is ******* username ******** account number ****** i want to do a payout by mb(500€) can you check if there is any problem if i do it? I dont want any problem because of your fees politics. Thanks But i didnt do the payout!!!!!! Justin can you help me on this?Last edited by Anacart; 06-16-10, 02:15 PM.Comment -
You must have been a naughty boy.
Betdaq don't charge anything for a withdrawal to moneybookers and it's an automated process, so why send the email to begin with?Comment -
I made some payouts in the past before a friend of mine told me that they:
• We reserve the right to charge customers who are deemed to be abusing this offer the full rate.
So i send the email but i didnt request the payout! And by phone and i told them if they want i continue betting to pay that fees with the comissions i generate! They stole me 575€!Comment -
Betdaq are a decent exchange, I have been with them for ages & I also received the 2.5% promo.
I am sure they would not deliberately rip-any one off.
Either they have made an error or you have done something against their terms & conditions.
Why not give them a ring
If you have done nothing wrong I am sure they will reimburse you your funds.
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They told me that i have made a lot of payouts/deposits by moneybookers in the past:
They didt worn me and they didt cancel any payout, they just remove the money form my account!From the 1st November 2009 when the free Moneybooker Fees were introduced, you generated €104.50 in commission, however you incurred €680.21 in money booker fees (€34,010.55 lodgements @ 2%).
I told them by phone that i agree to made new bets to increase my comissions to 600€ if they give me my money again!
They just stole my money!Comment -
Well something about your story doesnt add up sir
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I didnt do that!!! I made some payout/deposit but no on a dayly basis! I made some deposits and made my bets risking all my money! I made LAYS on correct scores i risk all my money several times and then i made my payouts. The amount i payout is normaly close to the deposit because if i made a lay at odds 100 i win litle amount risking a lot of money. I understand that with this kind of bets generate a litle amount in comissions but: Why didnt Betdaq cancel my payouts? Why didnt they warn me? Why did they send me a email with the promo to do this to me? Why did they not agree with me to continue betting to let me pay the fees with the commissions i pay?Last edited by Anacart; 06-17-10, 12:36 PM.Comment -
They should've warned you.Comment -
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Have you by chance been taking part in a Moneybookers promo where they would pay you a small % of the total you deposited to books?Comment -
I just send them this email: Hi again, My name is ****** username ******* account number ******** At SBR SportsBookReview.com people are start talking about this this: http://forum.sbrforum.com/sportsbook...ml#post5118967 They are telling me to fill a formal SBR complaint form, but i dont want to do this for now. This is very bad publicity for you! I repeat this again, why didnt you warn me? If you put my money again at my account i will bet until pay 600€ in comissions! Thank you LTComment -
They did this to me also. No warning, just money deducted from the account. Absurd!
I got an incentive to play with Betdaq since they reduced my commission rate but seems like they take the commission different way. This is bullshit.
So much for:
"Moneybookers Charges: None"
On both the deposit and withdrawal page.Comment -
Could someone please point me in the right direction with finding where they have this clause they're referring to:
Free Fees terms and conditions:
• Unless otherwise stated in the deposits page on the website, BETDAQ will absorb the cost of all fees subject to the members total commission paid being equal or greater than the cost of the fees.
• We reserve the right to charge customers who are deemed to be abusing this offer the full rate.
• BETDAQ reserves the right to withdraw this offer at any time, without prior notice.
I just can't find it on their site.Comment -
Just for information MoneyBookers charges bookies with 2.8% for every deposit.
Its normal BetDaq to charge fees if deposit isnt wagered at least once.Comment -
All my deposits have been wagered at least once.
All I can see on their site referring to Moneybookers is: "Moneybookers Charges: None"
I could not know about their contracts with Moneybookers nor should I care about them for as long as they state that deposits and withdrawals are free of charges.Comment -
The problem is that if you are laying in Betdaq at odds above evens your liability will always be larger than the amount you can win and therefore you can never pay enough commission to cover the 2% charges unless you make multiple and multiple bets in between deposits and withdrawals. If they will begin to enforce this they will greatly reduce the amount of people who want to lay bets there.Comment -
I would say that most betdaq customers make very few deposits or withdrawals compared the the number of trades.
Betdaq have to pay a fee to moneybookers (around 2% of the deposit i think?) so they at least need to make sure they make the fee back via commission, hence the conditions attached to the free deposit option.
The OP who deposited $30000 and hasnt generated commission anywhere near the cost of Betdaqs fees is obviously trying it on big time.Comment -
Well I'm playing small ball so you should consider this as affecting every customer.
From the 1st November 2009 when the free Moneybooker Fees were introduced, you generated €21.51 in commission, however you incurred €87.16 in money booker fees (€4,358.20 @2%)
Now please, "dealer wins" or anyone, please tell me where to find the T&C's that tell us about this "free Moneybookers Fees"?Comment -
I agree they should have given a warning. But I would have thought that it would have been obvious to the users in question that what they were doing was taking the mick. In effect, they were using Betdaq's 2.8% fee from Moneybookers to enable Moneybookers to make a profit on paying them 1% of their deposits! Plus, these are the types of transactions that raise money laundering red flags (which Moneybookers bizarrely seems to encourage if it helps its bottom line).
However, Betdaq actually refers to a particular term (T & C) they say the users have broken. If that term truly doesn't exist on their website (I haven't checked) then, warning or no warning, I don't think that Betdaq are entitled to "reclaim" the lost commission revenue. Even if they now try to refer to a catch-all clause that says they can do what they want, that wasn't the reason they took funds from these particular users, so these particular users should get the fees back.
Whilst I think these users have a good case against Betdaq, I have little sympathy for those that actually knew or ought to have known they were abusing the letter of Betdaq's deposit rules in order to profit themselves from a separate Moneybookers' promotion. That's the kind of behaviour that ruins it for the rest of us.Comment -
There's an excellent post in another forum regarding this issue:
What concerns me most is the removal of funds without telling you. Even if the policy is in the terms somewhere (and that is an if as I can't find it either) then an email to let you know that proceeding with the withdrawal will incur the fee clawback would be proper.
By removing the funds in such a way, all they've likely created is a situation whereby you don't want to play there again and other people read your complaint and think the same.
If they had told you then I imagine you would have declined the payout, left your money in and played through some bets to earn the commission difference (and potentially more).
And their terms do say: "There may be costs relating to the transfer of funds into or out of Members' Accounts which, wherever possible, will be notified to the Member in advance of his/her agreement to proceed with a transfer instruction." It's a cost to you and why was it not possible to notify you?
All I can see on their site is a red banner in the deposit area saying "All Neteller and Moneybookers deposits are now free!" alongside "Terms and conditions apply" - the banner links to nothing and there's no sign of such terms there?!
There's a banner in the withdrawal area saying "All Neteller withdrawals are now free". That too links to nothing. There is nothing in the final page where the withdrawal/deposit is enacted. I can see nothing in their terms either. If this is the policy, I would like to be able to see it.
On their forum, their own admin posted:
"Important Message -
Please note that there are no deposit fees attached with using either Moneybookers or Neteller - 0%.
Kind Regards
Betdaq
Expiry date for offer - 31/03/10"
Again, no link to anything which suggests these fees are clawed back.
I'm not surprised by sites having such policies, especially if they're aimed at stopping people depositing to withdraw without playing but I am surprised they just took the money without telling you.Comment -
It is all a major BS, betdaq is stealing money blind, a player must have a warning first.Comment -
Give the man his money and close his account.Comment -
Any updates SBR?Comment -
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I didnt ask for any payout! I just send a email asking if i can do a payout because of this "fees politics" and they deduct the money from my account! If they warn me i didnt request any payout and i continue betting until they happy; or loose my money! They stole my money!I gona fill out an SBR complaint form!Last edited by Anacart; 06-19-10, 03:45 AM.Comment -
this is unacceptable.
of course you have tryed to cheat Betdaq,
but from their part to steal the player's money is absurd.
they should warned you that a withdrawal will incur paying all the Moneybookers/Neteller fees,
if the commisions paid are low.
this is a theft.Comment -
I got an email from their Operations Manager telling me that players have to read and obey their Help section and not just their Terms and Conditions. Basically they're telling me that there are some rules in the Help section of the site that suddenly are part of the Terms and Conditions. This is beginning to be seriously ridiculous. How can I know if there are some other terms that give them right to steal from their customers hidden somewhere on the site as well but I just haven't found them yet.
Please refer to the 'Deposit by Moneybookers' section of the Help page on our website. You will note that clearly displayed in the sub-section entitled ' Free Fees' is the following:
• Unless otherwise stated in the deposits page on the web site, BETDAQ will absorb the cost of all fees subject to the members total commission paid being equal or greater than the cost of the fees.
• We reserve the right to charge customers who are deemed to be abusing this offer the full rate.
• BETDAQ reserves the right to withdraw this offer at any time, without prior notice
It is the responsibility of each individual member to ensure they fully understand the conditions of any promotions they take part in. As such, we are not in a position to refund you the €65.65, as this represents a cost incurred by us which we reserve the right to recoup as outlined in the aforementioned Terms and Conditions.
Thank you for your understanding.
Kind Regards,
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Operations Manager.Comment
