betphoenix delay ridiculousness

acarmelo1 · 06-10-10, 10:38 PM

yeah they have a slow internet speed for those second half. It sucks

bigugly · 06-10-10, 10:42 PM

Have you tried calling in the bets? I have never tried calling half-time bets, but maybe you could get your bets in faster.

jackkkk2009 · 06-11-10, 01:59 AM

delaying wagering is so bad to players. especially when the game is about to start.

trixtrix · 06-11-10, 07:35 AM

the main thing that pisses me off about this is that it gives the book an absolute free-roll on my money, in that they can decide to accept my wager or not during the delay, but i cannot decide to cancel it.

what's stopping betp to simply accept the bet after delay ONLY when 2h progresses in their favour?

Chuck Sims · 06-11-10, 10:40 AM

trixtrix, Any reason why you did not bet the 2nd half play somewhere eles? Like Matchbook, which has a better line.

bigugly · 06-11-10, 12:39 PM

trix, I don't think they're one of those sites that take advantage of players like that. at least from my experience.

trixtrix · 06-11-10, 12:59 PM

what was matchbook's number?

bleedblue · 06-11-10, 03:36 PM

Trix,

Delays suck, but what did they do wrong, unless this delay was longer than your normal delay? You put a bet in and the line came off the board because the game was starting. If you want to avoid this problem, you have to get your bet in earlier, or play at a book that isn't delaying you.

The matchbook line was slightly worse. Somewhere between Boston -3 -104 and -3 -108. Chuck just thinks its necessary to mention matchbook every chance he has.

RickySteve · 06-11-10, 03:53 PM

I wish BP would use the live feed to close action on games rather than strict listed times. I go on tilt every time I see "Game already started" on my approval screen and then see the pitcher still going through warm-ups while they squeeze in 6 more commercials before first pitch.

trixtrix · 06-11-10, 05:34 PM

Originally posted by bleedblue

Trix,

Delays suck, but what did they do wrong, unless this delay was longer than your normal delay? You put a bet in and the line came off the board because the game was starting. If you want to avoid this problem, you have to get your bet in earlier, or play at a book that isn't delaying you.

The matchbook line was slightly worse. Somewhere between Boston -3 -104 and -3 -108. Chuck just thinks its necessary to mention matchbook every chance he has.

looks like someone forgot the deadness of the 3 in last night's game

as for what betp did wrong, i stated clearly in my other post: it gives them a free-roll on my last wager request. is it a hard foul? no, otherwise i'd be submitting a complaint.

as it stands, any bet made BEFORE the cutoff times should be honoured (regardless of if the delay, which is entirely betp's own design, carries the wager past cutoff), otherwise they can use the delay as an excuse to free-roll. (as the punters have no ability to cancel their request during the delay, but betp have the choice to accept)

JoeVig · 06-11-10, 07:00 PM

I wonder if other folks are seeing more delays or cut limits recently?

yobinad · 06-12-10, 07:25 AM

Betphoenix software is a bit weak.

Mr_Saratoga · 06-12-10, 08:24 AM

I have had that happen also. And it also has changed when I have bet baseball games in the morning, nowhere near post time. There does appear to be some monitoring on the other end. It does give the impression sometimes that they just want more juice from you, sadly.

Justin7 · 06-12-10, 12:18 PM

trixtrix,

Betphoenix is giving away money. I'm sorry that you're unhappy that you have to stretch your arm out a bit to take it.

If you're on delay, they are tired of you beating them. I would call in your plays, until they are tired of that as well.

trixtrix · 06-12-10, 01:14 PM

so your pt is that.. i'm out of shape?

VTranX · 06-12-10, 01:50 PM

Never had a problem with bookmaker.com. Give them a whirl.

RogueScholar · 06-12-10, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by Justin7

trixtrix,

Betphoenix is giving away money. I'm sorry that you're unhappy that you have to stretch your arm out a bit to take it.

If you're on delay, they are tired of you beating them. I would call in your plays, until they are tired of that as well.

How can a book that's, as you say, "giving away money" have the financial stability to warrant a B+ rating here? Same with BetOnline, their baseball lines are pretty much an invitation to arb and punish non-concensus numbers, and yet SBR still sings their praises. Do you guys literally pimp these books with an artificially inflated rating to keep square money flowing in so that you and your co-conspirators can bilk their lousy linesmakers until they cry uncle, all the while knowing that you're contributing to the financial erosion of a book that you claim is in the "Top 10% of all offshore bookmakers"?

Justin, the reason everyone thinks you're a sham is because the grave and hypocritical conflicts of interest you embody. You work for a company which claims to quantify sportsbook reliability while personally trying to harm that reliability. You bitch and moan like a little girl when someone infringes on your profits rather than attempting to make your own wagering tactics more robust. You actively try to keep advantage gambling information off this forum while tirelessly pimping your own book in the hopes of personal gain. In the rare instances that you attempt to speak with mathematical authority, there are any number of flaws subsequently pointed out in your techniques. There is no end to the ways in which you make it painfully obvious that the only thing that matters to you is your wallet and your perceived celebrity.

This is a wake-up call; if you continue to behave this way, the only celebrity status you'll achieve is as a fraud.

trumpdown · 06-12-10, 03:05 PM

Entertaining banter all around.

Dark Horse · 06-12-10, 04:06 PM

RogueScholar, writing a book about sports betting is not done for the money.

midnight777 · 06-12-10, 04:12 PM

there was a pitching change in the red sox game... I have the total. I would like to get my $$ back..

robmpink · 06-12-10, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by trixtrix

making this thread now so i'm not biased toward towards lakers or boston covers

so i want to bet 2nd Half: boston -4 +105, so i fill my bets in quick b/c i know i'm on that minute long delay, hit submit (system goes into "thinking" mode) and i realize i had wanted to bet 2k but instead filled in 1k as the bet size. no big deal, wait til the bet gets processed then bet 1k more, sounds easy right. first bet takes forever to clear (30 secs +) and then i immediately rebet the line, the game clearly has not started yet on tv. the system goes into "thinking" mode the 2nd time, after 20secs of thinking it tells me the line is no longer available. the game kicks off after another 10-15 secs

so what is then the pt of betting 2nd halves in bet phoenix, based on my personal experience you can down maybe one bet assuming it doesn't get rejected. my 2nd bet was clearly bet at least 30secs before the game kicked off and clearly should have stood.

If you know you are on delay, don't wait so long. Also, if you know you are on roughly a minute delay, why would you think your second bet be processed without a delay? From what you explained, you know you have a delay, and the line changed. What was the big suprise?

robmpink · 06-12-10, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by RogueScholar

How can a book that's, as you say, "giving away money" have the financial stability to warrant a B+ rating here? Same with BetOnline, their baseball lines are pretty much an invitation to arb and punish non-concensus numbers, and yet SBR still sings their praises. Do you guys literally pimp these books with an artificially inflated rating to keep square money flowing in so that you and your co-conspirators can bilk their lousy linesmakers until they cry uncle, all the while knowing that you're contributing to the financial erosion of a book that you claim is in the "Top 10% of all offshore bookmakers"?

Justin, the reason everyone thinks you're a sham is because the grave and hypocritical conflicts of interest you embody. You work for a company which claims to quantify sportsbook reliability while personally trying to harm that reliability. You bitch and moan like a little girl when someone infringes on your profits rather than attempting to make your own wagering tactics more robust. You actively try to keep advantage gambling information off this forum while tirelessly pimping your own book in the hopes of personal gain. In the rare instances that you attempt to speak with mathematical authority, there are any number of flaws subsequently pointed out in your techniques. There is no end to the ways in which you make it painfully obvious that the only thing that matters to you is your wallet and your perceived celebrity.

This is a wake-up call; if you continue to behave this way, the only celebrity status you'll achieve is as a fraud.

Well written post with some validity I feel. I can't comment on the pimping of the book or trying to get quazi celebrity status since I don't review every post.

trixtrix · 06-12-10, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by robmpink

If you know you are on delay, don't wait so long. Also, if you know you are on roughly a minute delay, why would you think your second bet be processed without a delay? From what you explained, you know you have a delay, and the line changed. What was the big suprise?

the line didn't change, they took the game off the board during my delay

RogueScholar · 06-12-10, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by Dark Horse

RogueScholar, writing a book about sports betting is not done for the money.

It's an unrealistic expectation, I agree, but it makes a whole lot more sense than fame. Especially when you hold a position of prominence at one of the largest offshore gambling portals on the Internet, with free license to pimp your book as the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.

I honestly can't think of a good reason for anyone to write a book about advantage gambling. The more valuable information you include, the smaller your audience and your profits. The less valuable information you offer, the more you come off looking like a hack. On top of all that, just writing a book about it gives the impression that you're experiencing diminishing returns with your techniques and looking to squeeze them for a few more bucks from people who don't know any better. The entire endeavour seems ignoble when you break it down...

Docta Ignoranti · 06-12-10, 07:26 PM

Always amazes me when a player bitches about going on a delay. Of course any bookmaker who understands the fundamentals of his or her craft utilize this tool not only because your beating them, but also to ensure all players are getting the right number. Why wouldn't the book put you on a delay? If you move before the number or stuff them with steam they should utilize that information as well. Now, Trixtrix, how about putting your bets in 5-10 min. before the game goes off. I doubt they are trying to punish you and keep you out of the action, and If it makes you feel any better Trix, you're less then .025% of the players this is happening to.

BigDaddy · 06-12-10, 08:01 PM

Originally posted by Justin7

trixtrix,

Betphoenix is giving away money. I'm sorry that you're unhappy that you have to stretch your arm out a bit to take it.

If you're on delay, they are tired of you beating them. I would call in your plays, until they are tired of that as well.

why do you have to post this kind of a reply why not just PM trix and tell him to stop bitching?

all you do is get things noticed by posting this type of stuff.

at least you didn't come in here and post like one poster did once and tell the world just how they were giving money away but to even mention it on a public forum to me makes no sense.

BigDaddy · 06-12-10, 08:04 PM

Originally posted by Docta Ignoranti

Now, Trixtrix, how about putting your bets in 5-10 min. before the game goes off. .

although i don't think trix should be complaining about what happened (it has happened to me before) but it was a halftime bet so its not like he has all day to get the bet in.

Dark Horse · 06-12-10, 08:15 PM

double post

Dark Horse · 06-12-10, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by RogueScholar

It's an unrealistic expectation, I agree, but it makes a whole lot more sense than fame. Especially when you hold a position of prominence at one of the largest offshore gambling portals on the Internet, with free license to pimp your book as the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.

I honestly can't think of a good reason for anyone to write a book about advantage gambling. The more valuable information you include, the smaller your audience and your profits. The less valuable information you offer, the more you come off looking like a hack. On top of all that, just writing a book about it gives the impression that you're experiencing diminishing returns with your techniques and looking to squeeze them for a few more bucks from people who don't know any better. The entire endeavour seems ignoble when you break it down...

You can give away information without giving away the store. See, for instance, Sharp Sports Betting or Weighing The Odds In Sports Betting. Compare it to a climb to the top of a mountain. The higher you get up the mountain, the more expansive the view. As you continue to climb you transcend views that were previously of value to you. This makes it possible to share information that is of value to others, without undercutting your own edge.

There is a science element to sports betting. So don't automatically assume that those who wish to share information must have ulterior motives.

losturmarbles · 06-12-10, 09:04 PM

Originally posted by RogueScholar

... There is no end to the ways in which you make it painfully obvious that the only thing that matters to you is your wallet ...

what's wrong with that?

unless you're suggesting he's doing so by defrauding others ?

Justin7 · 06-12-10, 09:56 PM

Originally posted by RogueScholar

How can a book that's, as you say, "giving away money" have the financial stability to warrant a B+ rating here? Same with BetOnline, their baseball lines are pretty much an invitation to arb and punish non-concensus numbers, and yet SBR still sings their praises. Do you guys literally pimp these books with an artificially inflated rating to keep square money flowing in so that you and your co-conspirators can bilk their lousy linesmakers until they cry uncle, all the while knowing that you're contributing to the financial erosion of a book that you claim is in the "Top 10% of all offshore bookmakers"?

Justin, the reason everyone thinks you're a sham is because the grave and hypocritical conflicts of interest you embody. You work for a company which claims to quantify sportsbook reliability while personally trying to harm that reliability. You bitch and moan like a little girl when someone infringes on your profits rather than attempting to make your own wagering tactics more robust. You actively try to keep advantage gambling information off this forum while tirelessly pimping your own book in the hopes of personal gain. In the rare instances that you attempt to speak with mathematical authority, there are any number of flaws subsequently pointed out in your techniques. There is no end to the ways in which you make it painfully obvious that the only thing that matters to you is your wallet and your perceived celebrity.

This is a wake-up call; if you continue to behave this way, the only celebrity status you'll achieve is as a fraud.

The most important factor affecting a book's rating is: do we believe they will continue to pay players? In BP, I believe this will continue.

BP has a bit of a split-personality disorder. They are clearly a rec-book. Why do they promote -105 lines? I think this is an epic marketing failure. Their lines are soft, and their management has not found a way to plug many of the money leaks, short of taking countermeasures against individual players. This business model is similar to many rec-books (SIA, Bodog and others). They don't want sharp action, and prefer people that are clueless. This business model can certainly succeed (although I think dealing -105 with this model pays an unduly high tax to smarter players). No matter how much money they throw away, I think player funds are safe so long as Dino backs it. Without his backing, this book would be much, much lower.

If you show up at the bash, I'll be happy to discuss my philosophy on information disclosure. I'll openly admit that my wallet is one of my primary concerns (the other being scratching intellectual itches, which is as important as money). There are no celebrities in sports betting. Only winners and losers. I don't want to sidetrack this thread in a pissing match like another recent one. If you have serious questions, talk to me in private.

Docta Ignoranti · 06-12-10, 11:00 PM

Originally posted by BigDaddy

although i don't think trix should be complaining about what happened (it has happened to me before) but it was a halftime bet so its not like he has all day to get the bet in.

Good point BD.

trixtrix · 06-13-10, 11:46 AM

thx everyone for derailing my thread

C.S. · 06-13-10, 12:08 PM

trixtrix,
Sometimes a phone call can be the easiest and most effective solution. I'm not trying to be smug here... it's the truth.
Call in during a slow time and ask to speak with a wagering manager. Tell them you know you are on a delay, you are ok with a delay, but the current one is unfair. I think between 5-10 seconds is fair for both parties. A lot of times what happens is a lower level CS or wagering manager makes a decision that is "the safest play" i.e. customer is winning... so put him on a delay. However, when a person closer to the top of the food chain looks at it they realize it might be excessive. When you write an email or go on live chat, 99% of the time in situations like this, the person answering your question is not the one who should be.