One with great integrity and deep pockets opens a book in COSTA RICA

[Fishhead]

After a few months, or even in the beginning, why wouldn't you as that owner make it an option to do transfers with a MINIMUM 3 other very reputable books?????

.........and offer this free of charge I might add, to and from, with some very minor rollover requirements.

[Dank_Fire]

Still taking shots @ PHX ??

[Fishhead]

Still taking shots @ PHX ??

Not at all

In fact, when they first opened, they took transfers from a couple decent books, they did good.

[minet123]

Because why would I want my customers to send business to my competition
One thing is spirit of cooperation in the industry
but as fickle and wrought with entitlement as punters are I am not making it easy for them to leave on a whim
Tough, it was real obvious to anyone with a brain that the Republican Senator from Tennesssee who had aspiration on the white house needed to sure up his position with the right wing Jesus freaks and his VP pick of the Junior senator from Arizona was going to be his point man because they could never get the anti-gay/anti-abortion agenda through Congress so they need to show them something and it sure made all that cash the major sport leagues where throwing to their campaign coffers seem justified
Hey you all drank the evil Arabs are at the Rio Grande BS
now you will get your money NET 30 days like the rest of our accounts payable
Because you Americans are out of your minds if you think I am hiring 40 people to run to western union everyday

[Fishhead]

Because why would I want my customers to send business to my competition
One thing is spirit of cooperation in the industry
but as fickle and wrought with entitlement as punters are I am not making it easy for them to leave on a whim
Tough, it was real obvious to anyone with a brain that the Republican Senator from Tennesssee who had aspiration on the white house needed to sure up his position with the right wing Jesus freaks and his VP pick of the Junior senator from Arizona was going to be his point man because they could never get the anti-gay/anti-abortion agenda through Congress so they need to show them something and it sure made all that cash the major sport leagues where throwing to their campaign coffers seem justified
Hey you all drank the evil Arabs are at the Rio Grande BS
now you will get your money NET 30 days like the rest of our accounts payable
Because you Americans are out of your minds if you think I am hiring 40 people to run to western union everyday

Excellent reply!!

[C.S.]

a. Because they are a pain in the ass. It isn't as easy as everyone thinks just to settle up at the end of the month.
b. Why do I (the book) want to make it any easier to let someone else win my money without getting a shot at it. The book pays for advertising, sales comm., bonus, overhead, fees, etc. for each customer. The cost of getting a new bettor in the door is huge. I am then just going to pass my money and my customer along?
c. Because payouts are not that hard to get. Most guys bet micro amounts of cash compared to what is discussed on forums. Most never take payouts and if they do it is an amount under a dime. That means in any half decent book you can take a **/**/check and get it in under 72 hours usually. Why then is it such an issue to do transfers? Big money... take a wire, don't like wires take multiple checks. You're a professional? Then you should have much better outs for moving money in place already then a transfer.
d. Most customers think books are banks or clearing houses. Book A is having a tough time paying me so I will send a transfer to book B make a few plays and take a payout. How is this fair practice to the book.

[trixtrix]

a. Because they are a pain in the ass. It isn't as easy as everyone thinks just to settle up at the end of the month.

i don't understand, why is it NOT as simple as that?

[C.S.]

OK... I know it isn't this simple but work with me here for the sake of keeping things easy.
Book A sends 20k to Book B.
Book B sends 5k to Book A.
Book B still owes 15k at the end of the month.
How do you get that cash to them? Well a few years ago you would just do a simple bank transfer from one costa rican account to another. Now things are tougher. More rules, regs, etc. I won't go into the structure of corps. in CR but most books in CR aren't really CR companies. Plus, when you have you company for payroll, taxes, etc. You don't want to dirty it up with customer funds.
Now you are looking at an international transfer, but you really don't want to do one for 15k because your bank breaks your balls for lots of small transfers. So you might let it pile up to say 100k but now you're paying decent sized bank wire fees so someone is losing on that deal.
You could do cash... but TBH I don't know why someone would want that much cash in CR.
Now multiple that times the number of books you deal on a monthly basis. Add the accounting department time spent... and for some it just doesn't add up.
Sure for books like DSI and CRIS or Matchbook and WSEX when you're sort of one in the same, it is not that big a deal. But to say it is easy just isn't true.

[durito]

Neteller? Moneybookers?

Pinny just moves players funds to from books accounts at pinny.

[C.S.]

Durito,

Sure, but if you're doing a decent amount of transfers and your MB and Neteller balance grows... and... you don't have huge European client base (which the majority of books in CR do not) now you have the same issue. Neteller fees, MB fees, all add up. Moving the money out of your account via a wire is going to cost you cause nobody is going to just do one bank transfer. It is a thin between convenience for customer and hassle for the company.

[polskboy]

After a few months, or even in the beginning, why wouldn't you as that owner make it an option to do transfers with a MINIMUM 3 other very reputable books????? .........and offer this free of charge I might add, to and from, with some very minor rollover requirements.

fh you looking to move your cash free after scalping???

[mathdotcom]

C.S. some of the things you say make sense, others do not. But I'll just mention the ones that don't make sense to me.

1] You are only looking at one side of the coin. I deposit at your book, beat you, and then transfer my money to another book. That sucks for you. But if you're transferring to the other book, they're probably also transferring to you too. So you're also getting new customers from the other book (at no cost), forcing them through some kind of 1 or 2x rollover. So unless you think everyone is going to beat you and run to the other book, and you're not getting any customers from the other book, then you're benefiting in a number of ways.

2] One of these benefits is that you're saving on fees. Without book2book, many will withdraw from Book A(let's say to moneybookers), and then into Book B. Both books are getting hit with moneybookers fees on these multiple transactions. If they allowed book2book, they're both better off.

3] If you offer book2book with the Greek or CRIS, a lot more people will view your (new) book as safe and this will increase deposits. It is easier for the Greek to keep the new book honest than it is for a single depositor halfway around the world whose only power is to cry foul on a forum.

There are many books in the industry, and the accounting is indeed not as simple as some would think, but those who cite the 'not wanting to cooperate with my competitor' reason are not looking at it too deeply.

[Fishhead]

Mathdotcom nudges to the front in the POTM race as we head down the stretch.

[Lovebug]

After a few months, or even in the beginning, why wouldn't you as that owner make it an option to do transfers with a MINIMUM 3 other very reputable books?????

.........and offer this free of charge I might add, to and from, with some very minor rollover requirements.

hi fish long time no see must be close to 10 years,nice to see your still around, you should know as of june 1st it won"t much matter for Americans..... you are aware of that?

Russ still kicking? how bout robtow?terrible news about ken if you believe.


all the best old posting buddy.

[C.S.]

math,
Let me start by saying this, I am just stating some of the reasons that books think this practice is not a good idea. I am not defending... I know where I stand, and I am cool with the fact that some people will disagree. In the end the customer decides with HIS money, if a books policy is no transfers or only with ___ book, it is the customer’s choice to play with the book or to move on. Just like I think it is bullshit that apple tied the iPhone to Att and I had to pay $500 for a cracked one here in CR. It was a company policy decision and I don't bother calling them to complain about nor question it. It is what it is.

I'll respond in order to your comments.
1. You have a point. However, in my experience you don't get many new customers from transfers. Guys who are into transfers have been into the game for a while and have accounts all over. Transfers do go both ways but at the end of the period someone is always holding the short straw. Then you get into the settling issues I brought up above. Believe or not most customers go nuts when you tell them there is any rollover on a transfer.
2. There are always fees. You might not see them for a while but they are there. This is real cash we are talking about. Eventually someone is going to want to convert those numbers on a computer screen to real green and you're going to get hit somewhere. I admit, if you have a bigger European client base moving money via transfers is easier because your mb and nt accounts will be in constant motion and it is good to have money on hand in these for payouts and such. But if you are dealing with the states... it's tougher.
3. I disagree with the credibility part. Look how many sub par books come and go... big bonus people will come. Sad but true. I think a books value should be based on do they pay? Do they pay fast? How will the greek keep a book honest? I am not going to sift through the forums, but just from being around I know there are a lot of used to be "great" books that transferred to both the greek and cris and now they are bust stiffing players along the way. Cascade comes to mind. The betting world is bigger than the forums...

[ZetaPsi808]

mathy you are sharp pal

[Fishhead]

hi fish long time no see must be close to 10 years,nice to see your still around, you should know as of june 1st it won"t much matter for Americans..... you are aware of that?

Russ still kicking? how bout robtow?terrible news about ken if you believe.


all the best old posting buddy.

All is well, who is this?


June 1st should see no changes in my opinion, you seem to think it will.

[trixtrix]

OK... I know it isn't this simple but work with me here for the sake of keeping things easy.
Book A sends 20k to Book B.
Book B sends 5k to Book A.
Book B still owes 15k at the end of the month.
How do you get that cash to them? Well a few years ago you would just do a simple bank transfer from one costa rican account to another. Now things are tougher. More rules, regs, etc. I won't go into the structure of corps. in CR but most books in CR aren't really CR companies. Plus, when you have you company for payroll, taxes, etc. You don't want to dirty it up with customer funds.
Now you are looking at an international transfer, but you really don't want to do one for 15k because your bank breaks your balls for lots of small transfers. So you might let it pile up to say 100k but now you're paying decent sized bank wire fees so someone is losing on that deal.
You could do cash... but TBH I don't know why someone would want that much cash in CR.
Now multiple that times the number of books you deal on a monthly basis. Add the accounting department time spent... and for some it just doesn't add up.
Sure for books like DSI and CRIS or Matchbook and WSEX when you're sort of one in the same, it is not that big a deal. But to say it is easy just isn't true.

cs, i agree w/ some of what you said and disagree w/ rest. i do think it's a correct move to disallow book-to-book if the cost exceeds the cost of customer sending funds via **/**. for example, i imagine currency exchange can also pose a problem since internally you're dealing in crc and externally in usd (mainly)

however, i do think you exaggerate the danger of carrying cash in costa rica (it ain't the wild wild west, even if it was, that's why you have those armoured vans and guards w/ shotguns) del rey can prolly clear 100k usd in one good nite. the **/** agents have to carry the cash back to the books don't they? not to mention you also have agents that needs to pay out cr players. plus, if you don't do it large six-digit sums and instead break it down to 20k weekly installments say, i am not sure if it's really THAT much of a hassle

[C.S.]

It's not a crime issue... it is a why would you want to have the cash "here" issue. Where do you keep it? The bank? What do you do with it? I have had to present papers and forms multiple times for a very modest amount of cash in the bank. After you buy... house, car, etc. Why would someone need tons of hard cash in costa rica? This place is hardly 5th ave no real shopping to be done. **/** won't go into details here... but no large sums of cash. There are very very few CR players.

[Fishhead]

It's not a crime issue... it is a why would you want to have the cash "here" issue. Where do you keep it? The bank? What do you do with it? I have had to present papers and forms multiple times for a very modest amount of cash in the bank. After you buy... house, car, etc. Why would someone need tons of hard cash in costa rica? This place is hardly 5th ave no real shopping to be done. **/** won't go into details here... but no large sums of cash. There are very very few CR players.

Sounds like a shithole

[durito]

Sounds like a shithole

You've never left the USA have you?

[mathdotcom]

durito do you carry a piece?

[durito]

durito do you carry a piece?

No. Why would I?

[Doug]

There are just too many books in CR.

I can see maybe 5 there being viable

CRIS group, 5Dimes, and a few more.....not hundreds.

CR books should at least transfer with other CR books, that can't be too hard, maybe they could all agree to use the same banco ?

CRIS should be boycotted as a transfer partner, as they are only one way ( to them).

If they don't want to transfer (free) they still need a way to pay customers, and most will want a free monthly Fedex check option. I think the transfer is a Hell of a lot cheaper than a check, and books have a hard time finding somebody to issue the check, should be easier for them to settle amoung themselves

[trixtrix]

It's not a crime issue... it is a why would you want to have the cash "here" issue. Where do you keep it? The bank? What do you do with it? I have had to present papers and forms multiple times for a very modest amount of cash in the bank. After you buy... house, car, etc. Why would someone need tons of hard cash in costa rica? This place is hardly 5th ave no real shopping to be done. **/** won't go into details here... but no large sums of cash. There are very very few CR players.

3pm cocaine binge?

just kidding, appreciate the discussion but i didn't mean to imply cash= six degrees of happiness in cr, i just meant as in context of this discussion where you use the cash to offset your negative positions in the other book so players can do transfers.

[thespeculator]

Because why would I want my customers to send business to my competition
One thing is spirit of cooperation in the industry
but as fickle and wrought with entitlement as punters are I am not making it easy for them to leave on a whim
Tough, it was real obvious to anyone with a brain that the Republican Senator from Tennesssee who had aspiration on the white house needed to sure up his position with the right wing Jesus freaks and his VP pick of the Junior senator from Arizona was going to be his point man because they could never get the anti-gay/anti-abortion agenda through Congress so they need to show them something and it sure made all that cash the major sport leagues where throwing to their campaign coffers seem justified
Hey you all drank the evil Arabs are at the Rio Grande BS
now you will get your money NET 30 days like the rest of our accounts payable
Because you Americans are out of your minds if you think I am hiring 40 people to run to western union everyday

you can throw in the former ebay executive who now wants to be govenor of california, she was part of that group, yet her company has no problem doing transfers in euro books, if you oppose something on moral grounds it shouldn't matter if it legal in that country, should be against it everywhere(i am talking about paypal)

[Fishhead]

Good thread, thanks for the responses.

[Johnpoints]

Great thread, lots of insight. I'm not sure what the poster was referring to about June 1st though

[C.S.]

3pm cocaine binge?

just kidding, appreciate the discussion but i didn't mean to imply cash= six degrees of happiness in cr, i just meant as in context of this discussion where you use the cash to offset your negative positions in the other book so players can do transfers.

With coke at around $8 a gram even the bum on the street gets a few good benders a week.
No, I get what you guys are saying... and in a perfect world transfers would be a nice easy way for some players to move cash around. IMO even if every book transferred with each other it would only amount to a tiny % of the payouts. Most guys hit a 3 teamer and want that $500 in their hands that day. I know that at least where I am we do transfers where the system in place is easy and mutually beneficial to each other. Everyone has their reasons. I think things come and go in waves as well. IMO everyone should be able to payout quick this time of year... it's the slowest months customers drop off and payouts and deposit methods are not swamped by football volume. Come football things get tighter, moving money quickly to customers tougher. You might see b2b come back stronger in football if payouts start getting slowed down. But as I said before, right now it is easy to pay people so why rock the boat?

[durito]

You obviously don't work at betphoenix.

[Fishhead]

You obviously don't work at betphoenix.