Sportsbook Review Process

[Thremp]

to some extent that is correct and precisely whey we need reviews that cover off on the issue WSEX and Bet911 are two current examples of what I've been talking about Surely you don't suggest there are no others?

Bookmaker
Pinnacle
Greek

Clear examples as well. Shouldn't be playing at any of these places.

[Hareeba!]

Bookmaker
Pinnacle
Greek

Clear examples as well. Shouldn't be playing at any of these places.

now who's talking bulldust and merely speculating?

on what basis do you accuse those books of misusing player monies?
you may be right because we don't have any process reviews which put them in the clear but of all the offshore books I'd say they are probably the least likely. In the case of Pinnacle in particular I most sincerely hope so.

[Thremp]

now who's talking bulldust and merely speculating? on what basis do you accuse those books of misusing player monies? you may be right because we don't have any process reviews which put them in the clear but of all the offshore books I'd say they are probably the least likely. In the case of Pinnacle in particular I most sincerely hope so.

How do you know this? They're just as likely to be the next WSEX/Bet911 by your "logic". You can't know anything without audited statements... or can we?

I think you basically proved the toolishness of your idea.

[Hareeba!]

How do you know this? They're just as likely to be the next WSEX/Bet911 by your "logic". You can't know anything without audited statements... or can we?

I think you basically proved the toolishness of your idea.

If all books were compelled to maintain player funds in trust accounts separate from their business so that player monies are always available for instant payout the WSEX and Bet911 situations wouldn't arise.

But oh what a foolish idea!!!

Do you have anything intelligent to add to this discussion Thremp?

[kohako]

I bet only in a euro sportsbook!
with a fisical home!
i love my money!

[Thremp]

If all books were compelled to maintain player funds in trust accounts separate from their business so that player monies are always available for instant payout the WSEX and Bet911 situations wouldn't arise. But oh what a foolish idea!!! Do you have anything intelligent to add to this discussion Thremp?

Not really. But the discussion was pretty much at a completion with the phrase "pipe dream" being uttered. I'll continue to play at Pinnacle despite the lack of audited statements. You'll get Bwin or Betfair or some shit. glhf.

[Hareeba!]

Not really. But the discussion was pretty much at a completion with the phrase "pipe dream" being uttered. I'll continue to play at Pinnacle despite the lack of audited statements. You'll get Bwin or Betfair or some shit. glhf.

You also appear totally incapable of following what I've been saying

I have no concerns about either Pinnacle or Betfair

As for Bwin, well I don't really care as they are useless

And as for "pipe dream" ... just wait and see ... one day before too long this will become standard practice

Unfortunately a lot of people are going to lose a lot of money at a lot of books before it comes about

[Hareeba!]

your money may be safer there Kohako but you can't make much when limited to betting peanuts

[Thremp]

Why don't you have equal concerns for Pinnacle?

Its absurd you seem to have this "view" that is completely **** stupid that you don't even believe.

[Hareeba!]

Why don't you have equal concerns for Pinnacle?

ok, fair question

I've been playing at Pinnacle for several years (along with Betfair longer than any other book in my stable) and they've always impressed me as being totally professional in everything. Furthermore they at least do have a statement on their site which indicates something close to compliance with what I'm talking about. I've not seen that at too many other sites.

Its absurd you seem to have this "view" that is completely **** stupid that you don't even believe.

I don't even believe?

Well I certainly don't understand ... would you care to clarify wtf you are trying to say?

[Thremp]

lol.

You're just an idiot. Reread your posts.

[Hareeba!]

lol.

You're just an idiot. Reread your posts.

I have and they make a heap more sense than yours.

You haven't provided a single valid argument against what I am saying.

So I'm lift to conclude that you don't even know yourself what you mean.

[Thremp]

Missing the point totally mate If they were wanting me to endorse their product that is what they would have to do This is all about integrity Are you happy to lend your money for free to a sportsbook to fund its business with no assurances that it can pay its debts when they fall due? I'm certainly not But I strongly suspect that is what you are doing when playing at a lot of them

Pinnacle has no independent verification of escrow player balances. GLHF with your ****ing delusional view.

[Hareeba!]

Pinnacle has no independent verification of escrow player balances. GLHF with your ****ing delusional view.

As I thought, you continue to totally miss the point

I am advocating what SHOULD be the situation and warning players about what I suspect is happening

You simply go on repeating that nobody is doing what they should be required to and that justifies your case for dismissing reform.

I suspect you are associated with one or more of those dodgy outfits which is misusing player money.

[BigdaddyQH]

I really thought I'd stated it pretty clearly.

1. A review of a sportsbook must take into account the way players' funds are protected. I can't see how one can do that without access to the balance sheet or ample evidence of the proper conduct of a separate trust account for all player monies.

2. If they are not kept separate from the operators' funds and always available for prompt payout they must be at risk and the book shouldn't be endorsed but placed on a blacklist.

3. Use of players' funds for a sportsbook's working capital purposes means that players' are providing free unsecured loans to the sportsbook for risk capital. I doubt most players realise that and would willing do so if they did.

4. Regulatory bodies aren't doing the job they should be and which players' should be entitled to expect unless they are policing the separation of players' and operators' funds.

To answer your statements:

1. Players funds are NOT protected, so get that idea out of your head.

2. If what you say is true, EVERY book would be placed on a blacklist.

3. The sportsbook can use your funds for ANY reason they want. Have you just figured out that the months that you leave your funds in an overseas sportsbook is one of the major ways they make money? Have you just figured out that those books can use the money to pay off other debts? Have you just figured out that they can loan the money out and make interest on it? Use your head. Where do you think that all this money to pay for "bonuses" comes from? You think that these books have a big vault, and if you deposit a grand and get a 50% bonus they just move $500.00 out of that vault into some special account with your name on it?

4. Do you think that the countries that these sports books really give a crap about regulatory bodies? If they have them, are you gullable enough not to believe that these guys are not on the take? The whole point of having these books in foreign countries is to make it next to impossible to get your money if they decide not to pay you. What are you going to do? Sue them? Ask the government for help?

You have a lot to learn about off shore books and the hundreds of ways they have of ripping you off. This is not Las Vegas, where you put your money down, receive a ticket, and cash it in if you win, no questions asked. You are throwing yourself into a fire pit when you send money to an offshore book. You had better hope that someone does not torch that pit. There are good reputable books out there. Everyone knows who they are. SBR is doing a poll on what books the players think are best. Go with that. You have nothing else to go on.

[Hareeba!]

To answer your statements:

1. Players funds are NOT protected, so get that idea out of your head.

2. If what you say is true, EVERY book would be placed on a blacklist.

3. The sportsbook can use your funds for ANY reason they want. Have you just figured out that the months that you leave your funds in an overseas sportsbook is one of the major ways they make money? Have you just figured out that those books can use the money to pay off other debts? Have you just figured out that they can loan the money out and make interest on it? Use your head. Where do you think that all this money to pay for "bonuses" comes from? You think that these books have a big vault, and if you deposit a grand and get a 50% bonus they just move $500.00 out of that vault into some special account with your name on it?

4. Do you think that the countries that these sports books really give a crap about regulatory bodies? If they have them, are you gullable enough not to believe that these guys are not on the take? The whole point of having these books in foreign countries is to make it next to impossible to get your money if they decide not to pay you. What are you going to do? Sue them? Ask the government for help?

You have a lot to learn about off shore books and the hundreds of ways they have of ripping you off. This is not Las Vegas, where you put your money down, receive a ticket, and cash it in if you win, no questions asked. You are throwing yourself into a fire pit when you send money to an offshore book. You had better hope that someone does not torch that pit. There are good reputable books out there. Everyone knows who they are. SBR is doing a poll on what books the players think are best. Go with that. You have nothing else to go on.

Thankyou Big Daddy for confirming my fears and making such a strong case for what I'm advocating

[BigdaddyQH]

Unfortunately what you are advocating will never come to pass. There is simply no law that can make it happen. You are deling with foreign countries, not the U.S. I suggest that you read about the sportsbooks that are under investigation and those that have been busted and you will see all the common threads amongst them. Then read all of the posts in here complaining about slow pays, stolen funds, and the like. Again you will see a common thread amongst them. It is the nature of the beast.

[Hareeba!]

Unfortunately what you are advocating will never come to pass. There is simply no law that can make it happen. You are deling with foreign countries, not the U.S. I suggest that you read about the sportsbooks that are under investigation and those that have been busted and you will see all the common threads amongst them. Then read all of the posts in here complaining about slow pays, stolen funds, and the like. Again you will see a common thread amongst them. It is the nature of the beast.

Yes, I understand all of that except the part about it never coming to pass.

There can only be so many disasters which reflect on the industry and regulators (and even reviewers) before reform becomes reality.

If rating agencies such as SBR were to only endorse complying books and jurisdictions the pressure would mount for clean up.

If players are better informed about how most of the offshore books are behaving with their money their source of funds will dry up and they'll be forced out of business.

No, it won't happen tomorrow, but let's see how things are looking say 5 years from now.

[Thremp]

Yeah, you're advocating a PIPE DREAM. It'll never ****ing happen. You don't even believe the bullshit you type. You're an idiot of the highest order and a clear hypocrite.

[Hareeba!]

Yeah, you're advocating a PIPE DREAM. It'll never ****ing happen. You don't even believe the bullshit you type. You're an idiot of the highest order and a clear hypocrite.

That's the second time you said that and when asked to explain you failed dismally the first time

Your attacks on me are are looking very much like a standard anti-reformist tactic. The more you carry on like this the more evident it becomes that you have a vested interest in the current corrupt practices.

[Thremp]

You said that you wouldn't play at a book without this verification. You play at Pinnacle. You're either a ****ing idiot or a liar (actually both).

gg

[Hareeba!]

You said that you wouldn't play at a book without this verification. You play at Pinnacle. You're either a ****ing idiot or a liar (actually both).

gg

I don't believe I actually have said that but am willing to concede it if you can show me where. Else I'd appreciate your withdrawal of the liar accusation.

If there were such a review process in place and a book failed that verification then certainly I wouldn't play there. Despite what you keep saying I'm not that much of an idiot.

In the absence of any such review process one is left to attempt one's own assessment. And what I have said is that I believe Pinnacle would be compliant in the main and certainly more likely than the vast majority of them so as it stands I am comfortable to keep playing there.

[Thremp]

I'd appreciate it if you sucked my dick.

You're a moron who has blinders on to what everyone else is saying ITT. You keep repeating the same tired shit. It'll never happen, and now you're admitting you don't even give a shit about your retarded efforts at reform.

[Hareeba!]

I'd appreciate it if you sucked my dick.

You're a moron who has blinders on to what everyone else is saying ITT. You keep repeating the same tired shit. It'll never happen, and now you're admitting you don't even give a shit about your retarded efforts at reform.

So we are left to conclude that you couldn't prove what you were saying.
And further that you are not prepared to withdraw your accusation that I have lied.

And yet again you come up with another incomprehensible accusation about not "giving a shit about ....", not to mention yet more tiresome personal abuse because you can't find anything intelligent to contribute to the discussion.

[Thremp]

Are you seriously playing the ad hominem card after that piss poor attack of me working for one of those "dodgy outfits"? You're just a ****ing idiot who has the reading comprehension of a mongoloid. Because you ask me to prove something and I don't feel like going back through your absurd drivel to quote your stupidity does not lend credence to your chickenshit argument.

[Hareeba!]

Are you seriously playing the ad hominem card after that piss poor attack of me working for one of those "dodgy outfits"? You're just a ****ing idiot who has the reading comprehension of a mongoloid. Because you ask me to prove something and I don't feel like going back through your absurd drivel to quote your stupidity does not lend credence to your chickenshit argument.

you talk of credibility yet continue to post accusations which you are not prepared to back up when challenged, not to mention the vile personal attacks rather than any substance ... who's credibility do you suppose is really at issue here?

[Thremp]

I dunno. You've pretty much proved yourself to be an idiot casting aspersions. So who really gives a ****?

[chubattack]

The snag is the sweeteners provided by the smaller books to attract custom.

I remember a few years ago, I went into a local supermarket during the time there was 'mad cow' disease here in the UK (You could pick up a fatal illness from eating beef). The price of beef plummeted in the supermarkets. It went from full price to half price and then only quarter of the normal price...at which point people starting snapping up 'bargains'. This made me laugh at the time because the risk remained the same..only the price changed.

It is exactly the same in the sportsbook arena. The smaller books offer all sorts of bonuses, promotions and sweeteners because it attracts the customer by offering a better rate of return. Eventually a customer portfolio builds up. Maybe after hearing how the first few got paid on time more come onboard. The book then goes bust or on slow pay if players hit too many wins or they decide enough cash has been accumulated.

I think regardless of any regulatory body, 'gamblers' by nature are prepared to take a 'gamble' and small book/big bonuses is just one such gamble. Otherwise, why would anyone play on any book outside the top five or so?

[Hareeba!]

And this is as it should be:

From a response to an enquiry of the Northern Territory regulator:

the Racing Commission is an independent statutory body and with the assistance of Racing, Gaming and Licensing, fully regulates and monitors all Northern Territory bookmakers and their websites.

A condition of all Northern Territory Sports Bookmaker is that they must establish a totally separate bank account for long term bets. Long term bets are those that will not be decided within one (1) month of receipt of the wager. The only payments to be made from monies held for long-term bets shall be to settle a long-term bet once it has been decided. The Sports Bookmaker shall ensure that no bank fees or other charges are deducted from the account in which long-term bets are held.

The Sports bookmaker must also have bank account(s) which at all times shall have sufficient funds to cover all monies owed by the licensee to all its betting clients. The bank account shall always be in credit with the bank and shall not be less than the total of all clients’ credit balances with the licensee.

The Racing Commission obtains documentation and verifies these details monthly.

The Racing Commission holds a significant bank guarantee from each Northern Territory Bookmaker to protect customer entitlements and each operator undertakes a detailed financial assessment as well as probity before being granted a licence to operate as a bookmaker in the NT.

[Thremp]

What Aussie books are you funded at btw?

[Hareeba!]

What Aussie books are you funded at btw?

SportsAlive
IAS
all 3 TABs
Betchoice
Luxbet
Sportsbet
Betstar