1. #1
    mr247
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    William Hill, suspending account and winnings/deposit

    It is not the first time that I have come across WH being very difficult for some reason when it comes to paying out.


    I have had my WH account for around a year now, and have been active on it. I bet on a whole range of sports: Football, Horses, Tennis, you name it! I was genuinely content with the service provided by WH until this issue happened:

    On the 15th of May, there was an ITF Tennis Match in Spain. While I was placing bets on horses, I decided to scan the live tennis scores and this one match caught my eye. Player X and Player Y , Although Player X was leading the first set heavily ( he eventually went on to win the 1st set), every single game was taken to deuce, therefore the odds of 13/1 for Player Y looked particularly interesting. So I staked 200 on Player Y to win at 13/1 odds.

    I had a feeling that it would be a long shot bet, but I was feeling lucky today. To my amazement, Player Y won the 2nd and 3rd sets convincingly at 6-1 . 6-0 respectively. I was feeling extra lucky that my long shot bet had come in, but little did I know this is when the issue started:

    Under the 'Open Bets' section, where your potential winnings should be written, there were the letters 'DNS'. I inquired as to what this meant and they said that not to worry as they were settling some late bets.

    I waited 24 hours, 48 hours, to receive an email saying that my account has been suspended and would not be reopened , and my winnings and initial deposit of 200 were being confiscated. After many back and forth emails, I found out that the account was suspended due to 'suspicious betting patterns regarding the tennis match' and that the match is under investigation. 2-3 weeks later, after contacting the TIU and other bookmakers, I come to find out that this match's investigation has actually been concluded and dismissed for any foul play and that the other bookies have paid out their customers concerning this match.

    Whereas here I am, 2 months later, constantly sending back and forth emails to WH who always revert back to the same message ' sorry the investigation is still underway'.

    I think this is a case of stalling tactics to make me give up on the money and funds, but the manner in which they have done so has left me very frustrated and I will fight for it as much as I can.

    Any input on this matter would be greatly appreciated

  2. #2
    Optional
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    How do you know the investigation was completed?

    Who told you that there was no wrong doing?

    Was this an ESSA press release?

    If you have this in writing from an official source then you should not have a problem at all.

    I have never heard of a player being able to find the result of a suspicious betting investigation as it is treated like top secret information that is not released to prevent giving info to the match fixers.

    And if WilliamHill have already said they are confiscating both your deposit and winnings then they think you are a criminal and are not waiting for any sort of decision. They've decided.

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  3. #3
    mr247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    How do you know the investigation was completed?

    And if WilliamHill have already said they are confiscating both your deposit and winnings then they think you are a criminal and are not waiting for any sort of decision. They've decided.
    Sorry to say, but you are wrong because they said that they have confiscated my deposit and winnings PENDING the investigation. Here is an excerpt from the email:

    ' Should the sporting body in question respond and advise us that this match wasn't manipulated then we will review your case again with a view to settling your bets and releasing your funds. However until it is confirmed that this match was played legitimately, we will remain unwilling to settle your bets or lift the sanctions which have been placed on your account.'

    And how I found out about the match was obviously not through the governing bodies because as you have explained, they treat this information as top secret.

    It was in fact another 2 bookies, which also had this match, and who also suspended winnings pending an investigation. A week later, the investigation was complete and winnings were paid out to the customers.

  4. #4
    Optional
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    If other people have had bets settled on the match and you have not, i can only guess what's going on. But that's that they think you are involved. I handle many complaints about suspended markets for suspicious betting and match fixing and you are probably only the second or third person out of maybe 100 who has had their entire account suspended and told their deposit would be taken. That is a BIG thing, as taking your deposit for any anything apart from reportable criminality reasons is not allowed under their UK regs.

    You should email WH every 2-4 weeks and just ask if the investigation is complete yet to make sure someone keeps checking for you regularly. And you can protest to their Gibralatar regulator https://www.gibraltar.gov.gi/new/remote-gambling who are able to actually query status of investigations.

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  5. #5
    Optional
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    BTW, 9 to 15 months seems to be the normal timeframe these investigations last. Would be unusual too for a match that happened 15 May to be reported, investigated and bookmakers cleared to pay within 6 weeks.

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  6. #6
    mr247
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    Thanks for that, although I don't understand what you mean by ' If other people have had bets settled on the match and you have not, i can only guess what's going on.' Could you please elaborate?

    I have been regularly messaging them, but still receive the same response every single time. I saw on another forum that someone was in a somewhat similar situation, and they filed a complaint in a Small Claims Court which won, would that be something to consider?

  7. #7
    Optional
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    It was my way of saying I was surprised, and not 100% sure what is going on, if others caught up in the same thing have been paid. I was only guessing but it sounds like they are suspicious of you.

    Most people caught up in these simply have their bet grading suspended for a long time and can continue using their bookmaker accounts.

    I guess a small claim is worth a try, if you know you are not involved, and you know of another action that won. I don't think that is an expensive process.

    But I would start with Gibraltar. If they can confirm there really is an ongoing investigation then not much point fighting further until ESSA or the offical body report back on it. Which as I said generally takes at least 9 months and sometime over a year.

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  8. #8
    mr247
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    Ah okay. Well that is the weird thing, I dont know how they can be suspicious of me, its a really weird situation. My guess is that the match in question may indeed have been a suspicious match, and along I come and place a bet and get caught up in the whole thing

    Okay thanks for that info.

    I had a quick browse of the site that you mentioned earlier, couldnt find any contact details anywhere specifically for remote gambling? I can definitely understand that if Gibraltar confirm there is an ongoing investigation, then there would be no point in questioning it for now. But all arrows seem to be pointing otherwise which is what is infuriating. Along with the fact that they are refusing to even give me back my deposit!

  9. #9
    Optional
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    Look right down the bottom of that page, there is a link to instrcutions, a form to email in and the email address




    Customer complaints regarding breaches of licence conditions

    For further information on complaints and regulatory issues please see: 


    The Gambling Commissioner's advice to complainants.
    Complaints about operators must follow the process set out in the Gambling Commissioner’s advice to complainants. Complaints must be submitted in writing, by email, using the prescribed form (Complaint Resolution Request Form) to gccomplaints@gibraltar.gov.gi. Complaints cannot be dealt with by telephone.

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  10. #10
    mr247
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    Guess I just missed it, thanks for that.

    I guess there's nothing else to do now but to fill out this form and wait and see what happens.

  11. #11
    Optional
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    Gibraltar are pretty good with helping.

    Just sound reasonable and ask them to check and confirm you aren't being dicked around, as you have seen other people say they have been paid at other books on the match.

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  12. #12
    mr247
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    Big thanks for the info, will proceed with the Gibraltar inquiry. Firstly I need to ask WH for all the logs of our chats, emails, and bets to attach with the Gibraltar inquiry ( Cant access WH account cause Im locked out). Would you happen to know a rough time frame when I could hear back from Gibraltar?

    Also, should I bother trying to get my initial deposit of 200 immediately? Instinctively I would try, but for some reason, I have a feeling it could make the whole entire process even longer...

  13. #13
    Optional
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    I would not bother with sending chat logs to Gibraltar up front. Make it easy for them and you will get an answer quicker. And can always send chat logs and anything else you think is helpful after the respond.

    But really, all you need to tell them is that William Hill suspended your account pending an investigation of a tennis match but you don't believe there really is an investigation ongoing as you have seen other people say they have now been paid.

    And give them the match details.

    They usually get back to people within days.

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  14. #14
    mr247
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    Okay because I was looking into the Gibraltar Complainants Form and it states clearly that in order to file a complaint, you have to fill out the form , and one of the sections of this form was any correspondence, logs, bets, etc.

    Are you saying I could email them directly with the specified email without having to send the form?

  15. #15
    Optional
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    I would send the form in the email but you don't need to be pedantic about sending all the logs if they are not directly relevant. They just like to read the books words rather than your interpretation of them.

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  16. #16
    mr247
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    Okay , will take that advice.


    Thanks once again

  17. #17
    mr247
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    Still havent received a reply from the Gibraltar Gaming Commission, does it usually take this long?

  18. #18
    Optional
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    In my experience they generally get back to people within a day or so.

    Personally, I usually give people at regulators 4 or 5 days before I follow up. They are mostly under staffed and get plenty of waste of time complaints to sort through as well. But pretty much always will reply eventually.

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  19. #19
    mr247
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    Just received an email from WH, after my weekly follow up with them regarding my account.

    And they said that they would not be responding to my emails anymore.

    Dont know what to think of this.

  20. #20
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr247 View Post
    Just received an email from WH, after my weekly follow up with them regarding my account.

    And they said that they would not be responding to my emails anymore.

    Dont know what to think of this.
    Assuming it is not because they think you are rude or threatening, then that is good ammunition for you to take to the regulator .

    Has Gibraltar replied as yet?


    If not, I would forward that email to them and say that you are just trying to follow up asking if the investigation had been completed yet and WillHill have told you they won't even accept that.

    And appeal for the regulator to please get involved and confirm what is going on, as it "makes no sense".


    If they dont reply by early next week I am happy to try emailing Gibraltar to prod them for you, if you wish.

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  21. #21
    KVB
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr247 View Post
    Just received an email from WH, after my weekly follow up with them regarding my account.

    And they said that they would not be responding to my emails anymore.

    Dont know what to think of this.

    This is a bit strange, something seems a little off here.

    Keep all communications in order, especially that email. It implies that the case is closed on their end. Even then, something is off.

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  22. #22
    SportsMushroom
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    these sites are terrible, why offer such limits were if anyone actually bets them and wins they will never get paid?

    is it them just free rolling people? or a trap to weed out 'insiders'?

  23. #23
    mr247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    Assuming it is not because they think you are rude or threatening, then that is good ammunition for you to take to the regulator .

    Has Gibraltar replied as yet?


    If not, I would forward that email to them and say that you are just trying to follow up asking if the investigation had been completed yet and WillHill have told you they won't even accept that.

    And appeal for the regulator to please get involved and confirm what is going on, as it "makes no sense".


    If they dont reply by early next week I am happy to try emailing Gibraltar to prod them for you, if you wish.

    I have taken great care in always replying to my emails in a mannerly fashion, so I can say for certain that I will be using their email as ammunition.

    Gibraltar has gotten back to me with an initial response email confirming the receipt of my form and ever since that last week, I have heard nothing back from them unfortunately
    Last edited by mr247; 07-11-17 at 08:23 AM. Reason: Misquote

  24. #24
    mr247
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    Quote Originally Posted by KVB View Post
    This is a bit strange, something seems a little off here.

    Keep all communications in order, especially that email. It implies that the case is closed on their end. Even then, something is off.

    I am going to keep all my emails in order.

    I tried contacting them to provide me with all the chat logs I had with their agents since the incident, and they are trying to make it as difficult as possible for me to obtain these logs. Firstly, my account is suspended so I cannot even log in to get bet reference, logs, transaction details etc. and Secondly, they refuse to send me the logs by email unless I pay a certain amount and send them a letter requesting the logs.

    It has been almost 2 months of back and forth with WH now and the situation hasnt even improved slightly.
    Last edited by mr247; 07-11-17 at 08:25 AM. Reason: misquote

  25. #25
    mr247
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    Quote Originally Posted by SportsMushroom View Post
    these sites are terrible, why offer such limits were if anyone actually bets them and wins they will never get paid?

    is it them just free rolling people? or a trap to weed out 'insiders'?

    I have a feeling something strange is going on with them. Why accept a bet in the first place if you are not willing to pay it out.

  26. #26
    lonnie55
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr247 View Post
    Why accept a bet in the first place if you are not willing to pay it out.
    1) to bait you
    2) to hope you will lose your bet

    I don't remember where I read it but recently somebody mentioned a friend working for the Israel department of William Hill who would have admit that the company is in huge troubles right now. Maybe there is a connection.

  27. #27
    piterp
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    I constantly repeat on this forum that will hill is not good bookmaker and never should listed in A category.

    Even for workers they are not good
    hxxps://www.thesun.co.uk/money/3956031/worst-companies-to-work-for-uk-rankings-revealed-employee-ratings-glassdoor/

  28. #28
    mr247
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    Quote Originally Posted by piterp View Post
    I constantly repeat on this forum that will hill is not good bookmaker and never should listed in A category.

    Even for workers they are not good
    hxxps://www.thesun.co.uk/money/3956031/worst-companies-to-work-for-uk-rankings-revealed-employee-ratings-glassdoor/
    I second your statement, judging from personal experience and from other people's experience, they should definitely not be listed in the A Category. While their services are among the best, its their customer service/ pay out , 'after-betting' services if you will, that is atrocious compared to the other bookies

  29. #29
    piterp
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    Some time ago I put link with big amount of complains for true picture of them but optional remove it

    3 years ago it was best book in UK but no more

  30. #30
    mr247
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    I definitely agree with you.


    Still no word from the GC or from WH for my situation...

  31. #31
    xKMACKx
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    I was watching their three-card poker game a couple weeks on a whim just to check it out, and the dealer lost some crazy amount, like 20 out of 22 hands including a straight flush and 80 percent of the time the pair-plus hit. Never seen anything like it. There were a few people wagering around $7,000-$10,000 on each hand and all I could think is how Will Hill was getting bent over. I joked thinking how they'll try and stiff some people now

  32. #32
    mr247
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    Ive seen people win huge amounts in the WH Casino, tens of thousands at a time, once saw even over 100k , but then it makes this situation even more weird, how they're okay releasing huge funds to huge punters, but if any normal punter was to win a decent amount, alarm bells start to ring for them....

  33. #33
    cashin81
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    What was the match and where are you from?

    DNS stands for do not settle.

    At worst, you should "push" and have the deposit refunded. From experience that is what usually happens with DNS.
    I have no idea how they can defend taking your deposit?

    "And if WilliamHill have already said they are confiscating both your deposit and winnings then they think you are a criminal and are not waiting for any sort of decision. They've decided."

    WH cant decide who is a criminal. If a match is suspect, it first has to be proven from the relevant body... Even then, what about all the innocent people who casually bet such a game? Do they lose their deposits and labelled criminals from the book?

  34. #34
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by cashin81 View Post
    What was the match and where are you from?

    DNS stands for do not settle.

    At worst, you should "push" and have the deposit refunded. From experience that is what usually happens with DNS.
    I have no idea how they can defend taking your deposit?

    "And if WilliamHill have already said they are confiscating both your deposit and winnings then they think you are a criminal and are not waiting for any sort of decision. They've decided."

    WH cant decide who is a criminal. If a match is suspect, it first has to be proven from the relevant body... Even then, what about all the innocent people who casually bet such a game? Do they lose their deposits and labelled criminals from the book?
    If WH suspect you are involved in money laundering, match fixing or gambling with the proceeds of crime they are required to freeze funds, report it and tell the player nothing more.

    The OP needs to liase with the regulator as no one else can help.

    @Mr247 please PM your WH account ID and I'll try to get Gibraltar to respond to you.

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  35. #35
    mr247
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    Quote Originally Posted by cashin81 View Post
    What was the match and where are you from?

    DNS stands for do not settle.

    At worst, you should "push" and have the deposit refunded. From experience that is what usually happens with DNS.
    I have no idea how they can defend taking your deposit?

    "And if WilliamHill have already said they are confiscating both your deposit and winnings then they think you are a criminal and are not waiting for any sort of decision. They've decided."

    WH cant decide who is a criminal. If a match is suspect, it first has to be proven from the relevant body... Even then, what about all the innocent people who casually bet such a game? Do they lose their deposits and labelled criminals from the book?

    The match in question was an ITF Tennis match in Spain.

    I am from Switzerland ( does this matter?) . I have tried to reason with them to at least get my deposit back but they are not replying to my emails anymore.

    I agree with you Cashin, while I have no idea if the match in question was manipulated , I believe it is very harsh on WH's part to generalize and not pay out everyone that bet on this match

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