Carib Sports "Line Manipulation" - Threat of Theft

**UV82** · 03-02-10, 05:23 PM

This has become a very stressful business, everyone is on edge, perhaps it is time to pull out.

**nenad** · 03-04-10, 09:47 PM

carib was nice book to me ,nice bonus fast replays fast payout over 1k in 5min to mb ,and those boths side bets are their rules for years as i see ,just stick with rules and will be ok.

**unluckysob** · 03-05-10, 10:52 AM

Why would you take dog ml and favorite spread??? asking to get middled---unless favorite drops to 1.

**skrtelfan** · 03-05-10, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by unluckysob

Why would you take dog ml and favorite spread??? asking to get middled---unless favorite drops to 1.

Math.

**nitzantal** · 03-08-10, 02:26 PM

I get no replies to my many email to Lou regarding this comlaint form which was submitted a while ago but I get no reply from Lou.

I am hoping that he will read this forum and reply to me over here.

**SBR Lou** · 03-08-10, 03:00 PM

Originally posted by nitzantal

I get no replies to my many email to Lou regarding this comlaint form which was submitted a while ago but I get no reply from Lou. I am hoping that he will read this forum and reply to me over here.

Nitzan,

I have traded e-mail with you four times, including one answered today.

Interestingly enough the responses I've received from you include the quote of my messages, are you sure that you're not receiving any mail from me?

Lou

**nitzantal** · 03-08-10, 03:48 PM

I received am email straight after this post here.

The last I heard from you was a week ago and I emailed you twice since then, to which I did not receive any reply excet for the one received today after posting here.

Still looking forward to see a resolution of this matter either way & I m sure the public are keen to know too.

**nitzantal** · 03-09-10, 12:31 PM

Lou, any news from Caribs?

**SBR Lou** · 03-10-10, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by nitzantal

Lou, any news from Caribs?

Nitzan,

We've been in discussion with Carib management. Unfortunately, they have no plans to change the outcome citing warnings given to you and claiming the bet was canceled prior to the game beginning.

SBR is still discussing general policy with Carib and has downgraded their mark from B+ to B.

**nitzantal** · 03-18-10, 03:10 PM

Thank you taking this matter seriously, I have a lot of respect for teh whole of SBR team.

Good job

**Thremp** · 03-18-10, 06:29 PM

Are they going to publicly put this on the newsfeed? Or is this going to be buried in the forum?

**poker_dummy101** · 03-23-10, 09:56 PM

I hate someone losing money because of Carib, but I do like them being downgraded. Too bad I don't have everything about Carib in my signature anymore.

**jboy4** · 03-23-10, 11:39 PM

Is carib owned by the same people that owned Sports Off Shore or were they just sister books?

**BigDaddy** · 03-24-10, 12:44 AM

Originally posted by jboy4

Is carib owned by the same people that owned Sports Off Shore or were they just sister books?

yes SOS is carib

**Climate** · 03-24-10, 02:18 AM

Originally posted by UV82

If occasionally a player changes his mind about his bet selection and decides to bet the other result ... that is normal and should be 100% legit... all books who I know would not have a problem with that, Caribs however will not only void the 2nd bet but will also show you the door, which is pathetic.

This is just one blatent example of just how incompetent sportsbook management can be. If the line moves enough for a player to take the other side, 95% of the time, that second position is a bad bet. I think Carib has been a pretty good book in most respects all along, but they are dropping the ball here IMO. They are certainly better than many others.

If a player is buying back the bet without actually arbing it, the book is making more money. Even if the player is arbing it, he is actually sacrificing EV to eliminate volatility most likely. The player would most likely have higher EV if he/she simply held on to his/her first position and didn't buy back the other side. So when a player buys back the other side for a small arb, the book still makes out, even though they will take a small loss, because their really bad position has been minimized, and they now have a lower negative expectation.

To warn the player or kick them out is stupid. And if a player simply juices out of a position, then it's even more ridiculous for a book to bother a player, because it is a bookmaker's dream-a +110 bet with 0 variance.

Originally posted by durito

Search the forum, but the best complaint I've heard of them doing this was when they flipped when rickysteve played off a bet with a horrendous position, like -7 and +6, and they flipped out. That is truly impressive.

And if a player middles himself, it's a windfall for the book long term. You got a middle for the book at +110 each way. That's roughly a 15% hold with 0 volatility for the book. And they hassled a player for this?

To autograde the second play a loser is beyond stupid for a book. Easiest way possible to drive off clientele and gain a horrible reputation in the process. A book really can't lose in this position if they simply take the bet and shut up. Occasionally (not usually, just occasionally) someone may take a middle on them that is profitable for the player, but for what the book gains versus what the book loses, they will make many, many times more money just taking all the action and leaving the players alone.

This is an example of incompetent management that doesn't understand even the most basic math of sports gambling, lacks any understanding of the basics of value betting, and has done no research in this field most likely, and lacks any understanding of client-business relationships.

The manager in these cases is simply a hack that is a slave to the myths, mis-truths, and false beliefs of the sports gambling business that have been handed down and shared by his fellow hacks he burns his cigarettes with.

**jboy4** · 03-24-10, 08:35 AM

Thanks for the info Big D. I used to play with SOS before they shut down and completely moved to Carib. I was with SOS for about 14 years. They treated me very good but could have been because I lost about 40K in that time span. When they closed shop and moved in with Carib, got treated like crap. I never understood why they did that. It was like it was totally different management. When SOS was around would have recommended them to everyone. Wouldnt recommend Carib to my worst enemy. How can two books that are basically the same be worlds apart when it comes to how they are ran. Guess Carib thinks they have enough money already.

**Cookie Monster** · 03-24-10, 08:54 AM

Great post, Climate.

Of course, taking both sides of a bet is what any bookie wants, be it from one or many customers. It is stupid making a fuss on it, and getting a bad rap by the way. I think there is another angle; maybe their ancient software has an exploitable glitch, and adjust the lines weirdly when taking such bets. But grading the 2nd bet a loser is stupid beyond question. The solution is fixing the software; by the way, it is evident that needs an update

**jonny** · 07-30-10, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by Climate

If the line moves enough for a player to take the other side, 95% of the time, that second position is a bad bet.

To be fair, this is a completely unsubstantiated statement.

**Bill Dozer** · 08-07-10, 11:46 AM

Originally posted by Cookie Monster

Great post, Climate.

Of course, taking both sides of a bet is what any bookie wants, be it from one or many customers. It is stupid making a fuss on it, and getting a bad rap by the way. I think there is another angle; maybe their ancient software has an exploitable glitch, and adjust the lines weirdly when taking such bets. But grading the 2nd bet a loser is stupid beyond question. The solution is fixing the software; by the way, it is evident that needs an update

With Carib theyre auto moving the line which created the opportunities for big buybacks. They need to update their platform or show the sharps the door.

**Dark Horse** · 08-07-10, 01:11 PM

I read the whole thread, but didn't see a response by Carib on betting fave ML and dog ATS. Is it their official policy to cancel the second bet in those instances? Or do they claim it was an isolated incident?

**durito** · 03-08-12, 11:13 AM

They still do this.

I made a bet this morning at -135, an hour later I decided I wanted off the bet and the line happened to be +135 on the other side which i bet, giving both me and the book no position. They subsequently canceled my +135 bet for "line manipulation".